As suggested, I am sure there were many factors which torpedoed the project, but I have never been a big fan of Gus Frangos.

 

you aren't the only one... and I'm not just talking about me.

Hi all,

 

I am amazed by the comments on Cleveland Dot Com that have so many people wanting to demolish this building just because they are in the opinion that it is ugly. I actually think it has an attraction that will be rare in the future---and think if renovated as was in the plan---could lead to a stunning re-discovery of that corner.

 

It is a shame that what should be one of the busiest corners downtown, basically sits alone! My hope, and I hope my hope is worthy...is to have someone buy this and go through with making it what it should and could be. I am not an architecture expert by no means, but I do appreciate this structure because it offers more of an organic/earth-toned appearance in contrast to many other modern structures that are all glass and concrete. I like the honey comb windows and feel if the stone is cleaned and the black granite polished to a shine....some lighting added to the tower at night to accent the corners and black stone portions, or vice versa---accent the honey comb window sides---that such will shed a whole new appreciation for the building.

 

That coupled with the renovation of the rotunda, which speaks for itself. The challenge to many would be to take an otherwise mundane perceived structure, and without altering its style, get even the most ardent opponents of the building to think... "hmmmmm...it doesn't look so bad afterall" Basically, what the Peanuts gang did to the Charlie Brown tree, can be done to this building! I think because it is more of a rare structure, and because many places have demolished such...that in the far future, the fact that it is a still standing RARE example, will be the new allure it could take on. Still, I cannot figure.. Why do so many people think this structure is ugly...and why do they think just because they think that...warrants tearing it down? It is not as though in today's downtown it looks soooo starkly out of place, as would placing a modern aluminum facade building in the middle of Chagrin Falls--then I can understand their perspective. But then again, who places a monoploy on the definition of ugly? I like the tower because it is soooo  late 1960's to 1972-ish. Reminds you of the setting and time period where Mary Tyler Moore tossed her hat into the air.

 

Can't the city or someone promote the sale and renovation of this building to some group that  can afford to get the project done? Again, I am architecturally cluless, but appreciate many styles. I just have a special attraction to this building. Most think I am nuts.

I stopped reading the Cleveland.com forum for the same reason I change the channel everytime the Neda video is shown. I can't take either one anymore.

As someone who likes to advocate and promote a more walkable, environmentally sustainable downtown, and buffer around Cleveland... and environment...someone who loves the historical grid and activity of the original downtowns... I have to smack my head to see the kind of vision on 70% of the posts on Cleveland Dot Com. It is utterly scary..and embarrassing to Cleveland in my opinion. Thank goodness for sites like this one where overall, I think you have a lot more intelligent and thoughtful posting, overall.

What is the Neda video?

^hmm..Rosetta and Asher??

 

that was the first thought that came to my mind. the other 2 that jumped out were the halle building... 400 employees could take a large chunk of what is left of that building and really energize it. Second was the ohio gas building. They did just announce that they were removing their last tennants and were ready to renovate the entire building if they got an anchor tennant... that building in such a prime location, with naming rights could be a pretty attractive property (assuming of course it is renovated, right now not so attractive :))

 

Eaton building.  400 for 400 seems to be a fair trade to me.

 

Whatever happens with the Breuer Tower, am I correct that the Rotunda is officially protected from demolition as a historic landmark?

 

Personally, I never liked the botique hotel idea for this particular building.  Not crazy about condos either.  That said, I admittedly don't have any great ideas of my own..... except, with those windows, the top floors would be a great location for the return of a Top of the Town type restaraunt. 

Yes, it would be nice to have another high point restaurant. I miss T of the T. There is so much room to build downtown...so much waiting to be re-discovered.

For the people in the construction/architecture biz, is it viable to sell this complex off in pieces?

 

I would imagine that the 1010 building on Euclid would be an appealing residential development, but I could also see how it would be hard to redevelop the tower itself without the surrounding parking or buildings.

 

The Rosetta piece of this is interesting. Didn't Chase Bank vacate a lot of space in tower city last year? Regardless of where they end up, a major employer heading downtown would be amazing news.

May be a topic for another thread, but wonder if Price is running into any problems with the county corruption probe.

It was sad news to hear of this project going under but at the same time it was really nice to hear about Rosetta planning on moving 400 employees to downtown Cleveland instead of the opposite like CREaton! This is a great sign that there are large progressive companies outside of Cleveland that see the potential. Perhaps even more remote companies outside of Cleveland and even Ohio or the country will start to realize the same thing.

May be a topic for another thread, but wonder if Price is running into any problems with the county corruption probe.

 

I think that's a legitimate question.

 

What is the Neda video?

 

Is that the Iranian woman who was killed?

 

Yes.

Where and when is Rosetta moving???

Nowhere now. But I suspect they have started looking again.

that company is growing at an insanely fast pace...that they've outgrown their current digs is not surprising

Are the for sure moving to a downtown location???

We'll let you know what's "for sure" after it happens.

By the way, to me, it is still hard to believe how a complex like Breuer/Trust Rotunda, etc..at a main intersection can sit vacant for so long. That corner has all the potential to close all the gaps of restoration along Euclid. I used to have a friend who worked in the Trust Rotunda in the 80's...and I banked there, and always thought it was a pleasure being in the building---even if I had to wait!

This is just a thought, but I always imagined the ClevelandTrustRotunda as being a great place for a museum. It is such a beautiful space. I know that in the past the Crawford Auto/Air Museum was rumored to be looking for a place downtown. BTW if you don't know the Crawford Auto Museum was originally located at E30th and Chester from 1943 to about 1963. It was originally called the Thompson Products Auto Album. (See http://www.wrhs.org/index.php/crawford for more info). I am just thinking how cool it would be for that building to house something special that is unique to Cleveland. If done correctly it would bring allot of focus and attention to that corner. Like I said just a thought.

Very good idea..a museum or gallery of sort. I would like to see more unique stores or galleries come to Euclid...and not just all food.

Hmm, a gallery or museum thats all about food!!!

Developer Lou Frangos says he has tenants for Ameritrust complex if he can resolve legal snarl

By Michelle Jarboe

July 09, 2009, 7:02PM

 

 

CLEVELAND -- Developer Lou Frangos says he can bring new tenants to empty office buildings in the former Ameritrust complex -- if he can resolve a legal snarl with Cuyahoga County.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/developer_lou_frangos_says_he.html

Developer Lou Frangos says he has tenants for Ameritrust complex if he can resolve legal snarl

by Michelle Jarboe/Plain Dealer Reporter

Thursday July 09, 2009, 7:02 PM

 

Peggy Turbett / The Plain Dealer, File Afternoon sun makes geomatric play on the north and west facades of the Ameritrust Tower, which was designed by the reknown architect Marcel Breuer and built in 1971 on East 9th Street in downtown Cleveland.

 

CLEVELAND -- Developer Lou Frangos says he can bring new tenants to empty office buildings in the former Ameritrust complex -- if he can resolve a legal snarl with Cuyahoga County.

 

Frangos, who owns land beneath one of the buildings, made a presentation to county commissioners during their regular meeting Thursday. His pitch: Settling a lawsuit about a county lease on Frangos' land will enable renovations of the P and H office buildings on East Ninth Street. Those renovations, Frangos says, could bring two tenants and hundreds of jobs to East Ninth and Euclid Avenue...

 

Frangos wants to develop the properties, but he's also willing to sell his stake in the land to the county. His price: $3.4 million, an offer available only until 2 p.m. on July 23.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/developer_lou_frangos_says_he.html

what happened with Rosetta moving into the PDs building on Superior?

"Rosetta did not return calls Thursday. Frangos has not talked to Rosetta executives."   

 

  This guy is just assuming he can bring them.

Sounds like a ploy to get out of a lawsuit. Sounds like Frangos.

Yeah, this guy sounds incredibly shady. I wouldn't be surprised if all of this was just hot air for some ulterior motive.

"His price: $3.4 million, an offer available only until 2 p.m. on July 23"

 

Not even 30 days? He's trying to push them into this.

 

:weird:

The hits just keep on coming! :roll:

 

From cleveland.com:

Ameritrust deal's link to corruption case: 2 figures cited in bribery plea were involved in sale

By Damon Sims

July 19, 2009, 4:15AM

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/ameritrust_deals_link_to_corru.html

 

For four years, Cuyahoga County taxpayers have asked questions about the commissioners' controversial $40 million purchase and renovation of the Ameritrust complex downtown, questions that have grown louder since federal investigators revealed a massive government corruption probe a year ago.

 

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/ameritrust_deals_link_to_corru.html

This whole saga makes me fume! Hiring consultants in these situations is sometimes needed, BUT, only as a last resort when getting such work done from within is NOTan option. If all this article is true to the tee... It was such a haphazard waste of money.

 

I get tired of hearing how the 'space is inadequate.' My question is WHY did it suddenly become so inadequate? I am sure with the floors cleared, a new configuration of the space can be created. Perhaps removing a floor and opening up atrium-like space. There are obviously companies out there who's specialty is making the best out of a bad situation, with the whole adaptive-reuse/configuration thing. Yes, this costs a lot, but for goodness sakes look how much was supposedly spent, anyway, and this complex is still siting desolate, on a main intersection, too! Is it really 'inadequate'...OR, is it more of a pervasive mentality these days to tear down and build new? I am sure many would have made heaps of money on that...while imposing demo fill on already stuffed Ohio landfills.

 

There are currently 2 way tooooooo obvious embarrassments downtown right now: The parking lots in the WHD/P.S., and this intersection comes to mind. It drives me up the wall when a local government entity purchases a property with public funds, then turns around and says it cannot use it in the end. Guess what? If I did that or anyone else, as an individual, I could not just turn around and walk away from it with ease. Where is the accountability?  Geeez! What it boils down to is 3 million to have someone go in there and tell you whether or not you can have your offices there....After you've invested over 21 million in purchasing it? As Hagen alluded to, this kind of work and decisions probably could have been done within. Then the decision to demolish the building! Oh, man...don't get me going on that one.

 

This corner is PRIME and even in a poor economy, you think it would be drawing some interest. Well, apparently it has, maybe we just don't hear about it in the news......Oh, but I forgot.. "the credit crunch" I'm just tired of hearing that! This building, if you look at it, is starting to look really filthy too... What a pillar statement to tough times, on what was once one of the busiest spots downtown!  When you envision what this corner/property structures could be/should be...it is hurtful to see it as it is right now.

If you look up thread, you'll see why removing a floor/several floors cannot be done.  It's a cost prohibitive situation and the asbestos throughout the building does not help.

If you look up thread, you'll see why removing a floor/several floors cannot be done.  It's a cost prohibitive situation and the asbestos throughout the building does not help.

 

I am familiar with that, but I still question it. Many would argue otherwise.....And, this situation is one reason why they should have not gotten into this deal. Such concerns need to be all worked out before making such a decision to purchase. So do you feel the county handled this responsibly?  :argue:  Here we go again...

If you look up thread, you'll see why removing a floor/several floors cannot be done.  It's a cost prohibitive situation and the asbestos throughout the building does not help.

 

I am familiar with that, but I still question it. Many would argue otherwise.....And, this situation is one reason why they should have not gotten into this deal. Such concerns need to be all worked out before making such a decision to purchase. So do you feel the county handled this responsibly?   :argue:  Here we go again...

 

Hell no  :whip:

 

It should have been marketed as a hotel or a condo from jump!

If you look up thread, you'll see why removing a floor/several floors cannot be done.  It's a cost prohibitive situation and the asbestos throughout the building does not help.

 

I am familiar with that, but I still question it. Many would argue otherwise.....And, this situation is one reason why they should have not gotten into this deal. Such concerns need to be all worked out before making such a decision to purchase. So do you feel the county handled this responsibly?   :argue:  Here we go again...

 

Hell no  :whip:

 

It should have been marketed as a hotel or a condo from jump!

 

I agree on that. I'd love to see the place cleaned/polished..and some accent lighting at night, perhaps. Could never understand why so many people seemed to think this building is ugly.

I can understand why some don't like it,  tt has a dark brooding presence.  I personally love it and wouldn't doubt that someday it could be appreciated.  I just hope that day isn't 25 years from now after it has been torn down.

The Breuer Tower is an amazing building. It would be foolish to knock down such a unique building to our city.

Any news on development of this area at all? I was browsing around clevendskyscrapers.com and came across this rendering for a new Cuyahoga County Administration Center where the Breuer Tower currently stands:

 

 

This is probably an old rendering for previous plans Cuyahoga County had for it, but I figured since the County now owns it again, maybe they have new plans for it.

 

Sorry if I'm misinformed about any plans for this building. I don't live in Cleveland, but I try my best to keep up with news in Cleveland. 

Currently nothing going on here (this thread should actually be in abandoned projects, I'll move it).  I know a major developer toured the building recently, but we're a long way from any activity at this point...

How sad :( So I guess that rendering I posted is pretty old?

Cuyahoga County commissioners consider selling Ameritrust complex at a multimillion-dollar loss

Published: Sunday, July 04, 2010, 6:00 AM    Updated: Sunday, July 04, 2010, 9:18 AM

Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County taxpayers could take a nearly $18 million hit as commissioners resurrect efforts to sell the long-vacant Ameritrust complex in downtown Cleveland. Commissioners are considering new staff-recommended asking prices ranging from $22.5 million to $28 million for the century-old rotunda, 28-story tower and surrounding buildings at the southeast corner of East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

more--->>>>http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/07/cuyahoga_county_commissioners_consider_selling_ameritrust_complex_at_a_multi-million-dollar_loss.html

I really hope some developer snatches this up and turns it residential.

 

..and I certainly hope this doesn't happen:

"The lease isn't a deal breaker for one interested buyer, Agnew Ltd. of Sagamore Hills. The company has proposed a luxury apartment and hotel complex with movie theaters, night clubs and a plastic-surgery center. "

Meanwhile, its sits and rots....looking dirtier by the day.  :oops: The plastic surgery center...Oh what an eclectic complimentary mix added to the superficial nightclub scene of fake boobs and injected lips.  :lol:

Since this property is on the market again and there is apparently some interest in buying it and doing something with it, I've moved it back from "Abandoned projects" to here.

 

EDIT: I also renamed it to remove "K&D" from the title since many here seem to be concerned most with the fate of this property and less about individual prospective developers.

Would this plan involve demolishing the structure to the east of the Rotunda? If so, don't like it.... Just thought I would post this from CDC.

 

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners ignore plan to turn Ameritrust into county headquarters

 

Published: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 11:55 AM

 

Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Real estate broker Ron Nicklos has a plan to revive Cuyahoga County commissioners' vision of a modern headquarters and to protect the $40 million taxpayers already have invested.

 

But commissioners are ignoring Nicklos' proposal to make over the century-old Ameritrust complex, even as they consider putting the property on the.....

 

 

Read more at: http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/07/cuyahoga_county_commissioners_ignore_plan_to_turn_ameritrust_into_county_headquarters.html

I still think it would be a great location for the county headquarters...

Two things I took from the article:

 

The article mentioned a developer proposing to demolish the 12 story 1010 Euclid building for... a 6 story structure to be built in it's place?  As if some type of adaptive reuse wouldn't work.   

 

The article also mentioned that the floor space is too small for efficient offices, but the county has shed 1,000 positions since the purchase of the building and "no longer needs as much space"?  I'm glad the county didn't tear down this structure, but the reasoning behind not using it doesn't make too much sense.  Nonetheless, I'm glad they didn't move into the building as we may get some type of residential development in the future. 

 

 

I still think it would be a great location for the county headquarters...

 

^ Yes. I don't by into the theory that the floor space is not suitable. Cannot the space be reconfigured to accommodate? There are those who's work is geared around making these sort of things work and I am sure they can demonstrate otherwise. Always Seemed like a cop-out kind of excuse. Isn't this what renovations are for? How about knocking out parts of a floor and even expanding the heights to open up the spaces. The "too small" thing is lame. Make it work.

 

And yes...OMLL ^^ I thought the same thing.

I have never bought the too small floorplate argument.  There are many ways around this problem.  The most obvious one to me is to tear down the building to the south and then erect a new one whose floors are attached to the Bruer tower.  There is an alley between them that could be bridged.

 

I don't envision this for the entire height of the tower, but for maybe 12 - 15 floors.  Then, the upper part could be used for storage at worst.  Or, being more creative, the upper part could be used for apartments or condos.  Separate entrances and elevators could be used.

 

 

im not a fan of the idea to demolish the 12 story building for a 6 story one.

Yeah there seems to be some obsession with demolishing the 12 story building on Euclid among the different entities that have had a plan for this site (whether keeping the Breuer building or not). 

I just dont get it....