im not a fan of the idea to demolish the 12 story building for a 6 story one.

 

^You're darn tootin' (to borrow a line from William H. Macy in the movie "Fargo").

 

And also correct is the first poster on Cleveland.com who says something to the effect that while the 1010 Building is not a masterpiece it fits the site and Euclid streetscape very well.

No better way to put it.

 

 

Yeah there seems to be some obsession with demolishing the 12 story building on Euclid among the different entities that have had a plan for this site (whether keeping the Breuer building or not). 

I just dont get it.... 

 

Right on willy boy. There has been an obsesesion to expedite this building's demise since the 1960s, at least since the 60s!

Why, I ask, why??

 

 

 

I just don't know how this talk of demolition on Lower Euclid (and Lower Prospect for that matter) continues to raise its ugly head in this day and age. Every effort should be taken to preserve Euclid Ave. exactly as it is (at least from E. 17th to Public Square, at least...we know that it's too late in Midtown, the Euclid Ave. streetscape has been altered considerably...the bulldozers have been running rampant lately there). Same thing for Prospect Ave. Except that should be preserved as much as possible all the way to E. 40th. These shouldn't be pipe dreams for us to have. I wish developers and the movers/shakers, etc. would be exploring ways to plug the holes on these 2 streets instead of tearing down vintage buildings only to replace them with buildings that look like they could've been plucked from the I-77 Rockside suburban office corridor. Then forgetting about infill for these holes.

I know. There are always arguements that, well, 'this building is too costly to restore and it needs this and that and its problems are too many to count'. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

I fear that this building will get torn down if the county offices somehow make it to E. 9th and Euclid. After all it's in this guy Nicklos' plans. Personally, I think county offices are terrible for this pivotal site, JMO. Which is why I actually would be pleased if K & D or some other entity like the group associated with the Schofield/Truman building took ownership of the Rotunda-Breuer-1010.  I would feel a little more at ease that this vintage threesome (yes, Breuer is, for all intents and purposes, an antique) would be restored "as is" into apartments and hotel,etc. without removal of whole buildings. Even so, I still fear that this building may finally meet the wrecking ball. I hope I'm wrong.

I also worry that the Stanley Block and the 350 Prospect Ave. (?address) building may also be "outta here" sometime in the forseeable future.

Isn't there a Lower Prospect Historic District, or some such thing that has any pull in these 2 scenarios? And what about HGN when it comes to both Euclid and Prospect? I guess I just don't know what kind of influence, or to what degree, that these downtown neighborhood organizations really have. I hope it's significant. But I also realize owners of buildings are businessmen and are looking out for themselves.

 

Nobody is a bigger fan of Cleveland than I (alright, alright I know there are plenty of us on this site  :-)) but a part of me continues to worry about the (ongoing?) loss of our original downtown. I read the latest stories like this about the 1010 building and it makes me a little unconfident that significant parts of downtown are going to look and feel like they should (and the intersection of E. 9th & Euclid is one of the most, if not the most, significant places in Cleveland... it's often referred to as Main & Main).

 

Let's keep what we have, geez.

 

 

 

^ All very well said. And for the last part about "Main and Main" everyday I see this intersection, in what should arguably be one of the busiest in pedestrian traffic and business, is largely an empty hole..dead zone. I cannot believe that such an iconic intersection, even in this economy, is struggling to get more interest. Yes, I know the Schofield is going on, but this rotunda and tower complex is prime location and I would love to see it restored and made into a multi-use complex. I am a fan of the Breuer tower just wish we could see how this structure could look if cleaned/granite panels polished, etc. The corner gets dingier by the day and surrounding buildings too...  At least can owners do something to improve curb appeal in the meanwhile. This is an embarrassing spectacle with that huge complex sitting dead.

I thought the best point from the article was the last line:

 

"'Instead of dumping this for a $25 million loss," Nicklos said, "if they feel their new vision was wrong, then let the new government make that decision.'"

 

I don't understand why the commissioners are so intent to sell the building before the new board and executive take over. I understand that figuring out what to do with the building is a giant responsibility, especially given the implications to taxpayers, but given the current market, I don't understand the rush to take a sizable loss.

 

I agree that since the whole purpose of buying the building was for consolidating county offices, they should let the next administration make those decisions.  It would be unrealistic to put the building on the market now since it will likely sit for a solid six months unless they do a quick auction.  Maybe the next county administration will decide that the building can be used by certain county offices. There had to have been some shred of reason to think initially the building would have been able to house some county workers.

 

  It will be refreshing to have one executive's vision vs three talking head's blurry vision.

^what about the council's blurry vision...the executive is not a dictator and everybody is going to be hunting for the limelight. 

The excuse that the floor plan is too small for county offices is absurd.  The city of Seattle bought a 62 story modern skyscraper out of bankrupcy ten years ago and put its municiple offices there.  The floor plates can't be bigger than 20,000 square ft.

The excuse that the floor plan is too small for county offices is absurd.  The city of Seattle bought a 62 story modern skyscraper out of bankrupcy ten years ago and put its municiple offices there.  The floor plates can't be bigger than 20,000 square ft.

 

Who here has knowledge in this area?  Also I would like to note the above.  The modern skyscraper is mostly like different than the Breuer Tower. in design and construction as well as need.

Couldn't the floors be gutted, reconfigured...and use be made of multiple floors, or whatever is needed to accommodate the need? Sometimes I feel it is not so much as impossible to do that, or costly, as it is more of the cultural obsession with scrapping the old and  building new. Just my opinion and no, I have not been walked through the place to be explained exactly why all this is so seemingly impossible. In the meanwhile, it would be nice if the rotunda, at least could get some kind of cleaning and use for art shows, events, or something of public interest. Such a great building. In its current form, it is analogous to the chick in the bar who would be so hot if she just cleaned up a bit and splashed on some deodorant.

The excuse that the floor plan is too small for county offices is absurd. The city of Seattle bought a 62 story modern skyscraper out of bankrupcy ten years ago and put its municiple offices there. The floor plates can't be bigger than 20,000 square ft.

 

Who here has knowledge in this area? Also I would like to note the above.   The modern skyscraper is mostly like different than the Breuer Tower. in design and construction as well as need.

 

 

I took a planning class that was held in this building (it was built for Keybank) when I lived in Seattle.  The building would be more comparable to 200 Public Square in size and age- probably a 80's vintage, large floorplates for a skyscraper (after looking at Google maps I'm estimating somewhere in the 35,000 sq ft range).  Many larger depts are split over multiple floors.  Whether or not City of Seattle thinks it meets their needs well, or if it would meet the County's needs or not, I can't really say.

What needs would suit the building? How about instead of reconfiguring all the floors to meet a need for a specific business....How about finding a specific entity to occupy it, where the current configuration needs little changing?

if the county offices are downsizing (by 1k people?!?!) then i cant see how floorspace is that big of an issue here.

 

and for 1010 to go down for a small annex building? no no no dont do it. christ no more teardowns, find another way!

Just because the County is downsizing doesn't mean that it can configure it's departments the way it would like to onto 20,000 sq ft floors. 

 

BTW, folks, this is moot discussion, if anyone read the article.

^  :roll:

 

For those interested in exploring what fits the existing configuration,

I found this floor plan on line at the Breuer archives and put it to proper scale and

added dimension and text.

http://www.aaa.si.edu/collectionsonline/breumarc/

 

^Thanks takeit for the visual aid!  Tough to know what to make of the county's complaint about the floor size (yeah, I know, moot).  The expense of cutting through the floor plates for some non-fire stairs would be useful info too.  Adjacent floors really aren't so far apart if there is an easy/fast way to move between them. 

 

You can certainly see in the floor plan dimensions the appeal of hotel rooms or residences.  Though it means getting rid of that cool, private mini office outside the ladies room.

For those interested in exploring what fits the existing configuration,

I found this floor plan on line at the Breuer archives and put it to proper scale and

added dimension and text.

http://www.aaa.si.edu/collectionsonline/breumarc/

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't find it -- could you be more specific?  What am I missing?

^Click on the PDF link at the bottom of takeit's post.

I still think it would be a great location for the county headquarters...

The "too small" thing is lame. Make it work.

 

And yes...OMLL ^^ I thought the same thing.

 

Sure if you throw enough money at it you can do whatever you please.  I highly doubt the commissioners were working with an unlimited budget when they first investigated using this building to consolidate their offices.

I havent herd anything on this for a while. But when I drive by it there are lights on on the main floor. Something is going on? but what..??..

Working across the street, I can tell you the lights are on every day and there is almost always a van or two parked on the sidewalk in front of the lobby.  My guess is that it is just a skeleton maintenance crew making sure the building doesn't fall into too much disrepair.

^ and security

The state of this building makes me sad.

I think the lights are just to discourage squatters and might be a requirement of the county and/or city.  I don't think any work is currently underway.   

I agree, the state of it is really sad. I wish that basic curb appeal upkeep was a bit more of a priority to owners of properties like this. I had an empty building for sale for 2 years and always kept it looking nice with simplistics like window washing a bit of fresh paint. Don't know what can be done to a 400 foot tower, however, that wouldn't probably cost an arm and leg. But the smaller buildings in that part of Euclid..at least the street level... I mean, come on..its not that difficult.

I agree, the state of it is really sad. I wish that basic curb appeal upkeep was a bit more of a priority to owners of properties like this. I had an empty building for sale for 2 years and always kept it looking nice with simplistics like window washing a bit of fresh paint. Don't know what can be done to a 400 foot tower, however, that wouldn't probably cost an arm and leg. But the smaller buildings in that part of Euclid..at least the street level... I mean, come on..its not that difficult.

 

I hate, OK no I dont, to play devil's advocate. 

 

What is the budget for maintenance at this building?  It's easy to say what one should do but in regard to the building but none of us what current maintenance cost are and what you state above would cost monthly? 

 

Also, is that maintenance going to make a difference in the sale of the building?

Who presently owns the complex?  The County?

^Yup.

Who presently owns the complex? The County?

 

Yes.

 

BTW, when I was at Progressive Field last month, I think I saw a tree growing on the roof. Were my eyes seeing things??

Depressing.  I always liked that building, and I generally don't like modern architecture. 

Who presently owns the complex?  The County?

 

Exactly and even though it probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to clean/fix up, it would still be a pretty penny - one the County isn't in a position to spend for the time being.

I am not speaking of this tower when I say this specifically, but there are plenty of buildings around there that could use something very basic at least at street level. Pride is free..and when you have pride in your building, something as the simple effort to wash a window makes a difference in how neighbors view other property owners. Effort is worth a lot.

There is a facilities manager / building custodian that is on site, I believe most days from 9-5, generally overseeing the building.

 

They were using it a for a couple weeks, a few weeks ago, as a shooting location for that movie Free Runner that was filming in town. There was a lot of equipment / people around the complex then.

 

I also know, and this was before everyone in county government got arrested, that developers interested in buying the building and their respective teams where going in to view the complex in person as part of putting together proposals.

 

Given everything that is going on at the county level, I would assume there will be no movement on anyone buying it until the new administration is in place. Who knows though, given the current state of things.

I hope that it does not go into disrepair to the point the demolition promoters come out again and use the rationale that it costs more to renovate than to build something new---and we get something really bad in place of it.

Just FYI, not trying to create any false hopes...

 

There has been a significant uptick in activity in the past couple of days.  All lights are on in the rotunda, and utility lights have been turned on in the first couple of floors of the tower.  This morning there are at least 6 cars parked out in front on the sidewalk with people moving in and out.  Ususally it's just a couple of county-owned utility vans.

^ I've been noticing this too

Just FYI, not trying to create any false hopes...

 

There has been a significant uptick in activity in the past couple of days.  All lights are on in the rotunda, and utility lights have been turned on in the first couple of floors of the tower.  This morning there are at least 6 cars parked out in front on the sidewalk with people moving in and out.  Ususally it's just a couple of county-owned utility vans.

 

Were any of the people coming in and out wearing suits?

At least one person dressed business formal and at least one dressed casual.  Cars ranged from a newer high end Ford SUV to an old Jetta.

OK, someone needs to walk over there during their lunch hour and ask what's going on! :-D

^and with a laptop so that that person in the suit can type a lengthy and informative post giving us all the details including plans and specifications.  Why go through the middleman.

Hopefully it's not just the FBI!

Where's the Mayor?!!  He's on the inside!

Right now id even just take a thumbs up to know at least something good is happing there.

I also saw vans and cars parked outside today.. I figured they were squatters! ;)

Don't make me come down there and be the one to ask these folks why they're there.

1) Did anyone find out what was going on here?

 

2) Sorry if there's a better thread for this, I'm not sure where to put it.  But is the Building at 9th and Prospect (the North Side of the skyway) also part of this complex?  Is any of that building being used?

 

Even though it's fairly hideous on the outside, it's got huge windows all along the first floor, is adjacent to Huron Point, and has the attached parking garage.  Not to mention it's location!

 

Seems like a huge opportunity to redevelop into a retail location.

It was part of the redevolopment scope.

 

Rumor has it that it may be part of the Avengers movie

I would love to see that building demolished for a new one that interacts with that intersection better.

I don't know much about the strength of the interior walls/floors, but my guess would be that a new facade (with matching skyway) that was perhaps more classical in style, would be more than enough to make the building over.

 

The entire first floor could be re purposed as retail with new floorplans and additional doorways.  Maybe even 2 story high ones if they chose to make retail the main draw.  Just can't believe how great this location is.  Seems like something the Marons would do (assuming the Schofield building is completed and the economy continues to recover).  Man what I would do (for Cleveland) with $150M.    :wink2:

I definitely want to see that building torn down and replaced with something less hideous. Anyone remember this rendering?

 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that particular design (I'd prefer something more dense), but almost anything is better than what's there now.

That was tthe first "Jenga" design..

 

It eventually graduated to this.  It would have "hung" over the road.

 

http://videos.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/2008/07/virtual_tour_of_ameritrust_com.html