Not necessarily development related....but when Avengers was on E9 the Rotunda was lit and even empty added so much to the area...wonder what it would take to do it each night?

Ameritrust appraises at $17 million, $28 million less than Cuyahoga County taxpayers have invested

 

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The latest appraisal of Cuyahoga County's Ameritrust complex sets its value at $16.9 million -- $28 million less than taxpayers have invested in the downtown property.

 

County Executive Ed FitzGerald won't consider any proposal until at least October, when he expects a study of 31 county-owned properties and 26 leased spaces to be completed. But he's skeptical that that any sale will recoup the more than $44 million taxpayers have spent.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2011/05/ameritrust_appraised_at_17_million_27_million_less_than_taxpayers_have_invested.html

 

Well we're half way through October and no word from Fitz. I wonder if he is waiting on the county relocation study to be complete.

County in the market to buy and sell real estate

Cuyahoga's search for new headquarters, plan to shed other properties will influence Cleveland's office market going forward

By STAN BULLARD AND JAY MILLER

4:30 am, March 5, 2012

 

....The county values the dozen properties it hopes to sell at more than $30 million, though that figure may be high given current market conditions.

 

Still, the county is offering a few intriguing properties from its portfolio.

 

The biggest-ticket item is still the Ameritrust Building, which the county values at less than $17 million.

 

Ms. Teeuwen said Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald has talked recently with officials of development firm K&D Group about the 29-story tower. In 2008, a $35 million bid submitted by K&D with the county won it the right to redevelop the former bank headquarters into a hotel and residential complex. That deal fell through as the real estate market soured.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20120305/SUB1/303059975

What exactly does being nominated to be a landmark mean for these buildings?

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2012/04122012/index.php

 

May Co. and E. Ohio also being nominated...

What exactly does being nominated to be a landmark mean for these buildings?

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2012/04122012/index.php

 

May Co. and E. Ohio also being nominated...

 

It means somebody, as with the former East Ohio Gas tower, needs some federal historic tax credits as part of the capital contribution to redevelop Breuer Tower. Those tax credits can contribute up to 25 percent of the capital investment in a building's renovation. I suspect the county is seeking it to make the building more marketable to prospective developers. I find it hard to believe a developer is seeking the landmark status before the county puts the building's sale up for bid -- unless K&D Group's prior winning bid is still in force?

It means somebody, as with the former East Ohio Gas tower, needs some federal historic tax credits as part of the capital contribution to redevelop Breuer Tower. Those tax credits can contribute up to 25 percent of the capital investment in a building's renovation. I suspect the county is seeking it to make the building more marketable to prospective developers. I find it hard to believe a developer is seeking the landmark status before the county puts the building's sale up for bid -- unless K&D Group's prior winning bid is still in force?

 

Federal historic tax credits are not available to locally designated buildings, so East Ohio is probably being nominated for state historic tax credits.

 

The Rotunda and Breuer Tower are already in National Register Historic Districts and are eligible for both federal and state historic tax credits already.

The Rotunda and Breuer Tower are already in National Register Historic Districts and are eligible for both federal and state historic tax credits already.

 

Then what's the purpose of the landmark designation?

Could be wrong here.... but I believe "landmark" status imposes restrictions on alterations/demolition which NHRP does not

Could be wrong here.... but I believe "landmark" status imposes restrictions on alterations/demolition which NHRP does not

 

Exactly. I would guess that someone wants the city to be able to have a say in whatever is done to the rotunda and tower.

^ Makes sense to me ... particularly opposite previous thoughts about significantly altering the tower or doing demo/new construction, the more recent demolition of historic buildings for the valet center and the proposed parking conversion of the lower floors of May.

Here's a little audio blurb on WKSU from FitzGerald, pertinent to prospects for the Ameritrust Tower

 

http://www.wksu.org/news/story/31963

 

I look forward to some movement on this.  It's been a while since we've seen any news at UO or i nthe local press on it.

Do you think K & D is interested in this building again? Who else could be interested?

They're interested.  It's just making the numbers work.

They're interested.  It's just making the numbers work.

 

For many, E 9th is the welcome mat for downtown. And it's not a very good one at that. Developing that block will really help clear up that "dead zone" perception. Especially if it will be non-governmental, as the article suggests.

^But I think most of us have a feeling that the Huntington Building will be the County Governments new home.  Not that I think that's a bad thing.  Just saying that there could very well be a government building at this intersection.

^But I think most of us have a feeling that the Huntington Building will be the County Governments new home.  Not that I think that's a bad thing.  Just saying that there could very well be a government building at this intersection.

 

Right, though I'm hoping that if the County does locate there @ Huntington, the building could at least be of mixed use. Lots of disparate ideas (aka arguing) in that County relocation thread.

Some activity tonight as I drove by wondering why the heck I didn't take the rapid like usual...! Several county vans and a car parked by the rotunda. The loading doors were open and all the lights were on in the rotunda and the lobby. There were people in and out but maybe those who've worked downtown longer can say whether or not this is unusual.

Nice spy work! I work right there (but not today -- wouldn't ya know!!) and this is definitely not usual. It could just be a maintenance crew.

Or someone getting a tour?

Maybe, but look at all those vehicles. They all have government (county) license plates.

Well the county owns it.  Wouldn't they be the ones giving the tour?  Or at least be involved?

Sure, but there's no other vehicles visible.

Some activity tonight as I drove by wondering why the heck I didn't take the rapid like usual...! Several county vans and a car parked by the rotunda. The loading doors were open and all the lights were on in the rotunda and the lobby. There were people in and out but maybe those who've worked downtown longer can say whether or not this is unusual.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/07/cuyahoga_county_reveals_plan_t.html

 

Probably preparing for the sale of the property. Based on the article, it looks like they are going back on the market on Monday.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/07/cuyahoga_county_reveals_plan_t.html

 

Probably preparing for the sale of the property. Based on the article, it looks like they are going back on the market on Monday.

 

I was just thinking of the photo of the maintenance vans as I read through the article. I'm sure that's exactly what was going on with those vans being there. And that tells me two things:

 

1. the Breuer Tower is going back on the market;

2. the county doesn't have a buyer(s) banging on their doors begging to buy the tower. If they did, they wouldn't waste any time/money/staff/materials on fixing it up.

I went in to work later than usual today and on my way saw quite a few city vehicles in the garage of the building. This makes me lean more toward KJP's previous comment that they are fixing it back up getting it ready to sell rather than giving tours.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120807/FREE/120809872

 

Cuyahoga County hosts gathering to outline its property consolidation plans

By JAY MILLER and STAN BULLARD

1:19 pm, August 7, 2012

Under the ornate, four-story Cleveland Trust Co. rotunda at East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue in downtown Cleveland, Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald this morning kicked off what he hopes will be a modern-day land rush.

 

There are some big names in the NEO development world that attended this... I can't wait to see the proposals.

 

I wondered what all those cars parked on the sidewalk on the East 9th side of the Brueur Tower were doing there this morning. I got off the HealthLine and saw a bunch of county sheriff cars there, too.

There's a handful of properties on that list that are very desireable.  The two I'm most curious about are the least desireable:  Ameritrust Tower & the old County Juvenile Court buildings

 

How could the Breuer Tower be considered the least desirable?  Asbestos free, 29-story tower by mid century master, attached jewel box banking hall, parking, at the crossroads of an area in the city with an apartment vacancy rate of 2%.  Sounds like a pretty good deal to me...

And who was missing (at least not mentioned in the article)? Forest City. Figures.

 

But GREAT news nonetheless! When I was out last weekend I saw the lights turned on at the rotunda at night. I wanted to post here and ask if anyone knew what was going on.

 

I can't wait to hear some of the proposals- especially for the Ameritrust complex!

They've had the lights on every night.  My thought was that any passerbys or possible investors that want to peak in can see.

And who was missing (at least not mentioned in the article)? Forest City. Figures.

 

And MRN.  And K&D.

There's a handful of properties on that list that are very desireable.  The two I'm most curious about are the least desireable:  Ameritrust Tower & the old County Juvenile Court buildings

 

How could the Breuer Tower be considered the least desirable?  Asbestos free, 29-story tower by mid century master, attached jewel box banking hall, parking, at the crossroads of an area in the city with an apartment vacancy rate of 2%.  Sounds like a pretty good deal to me...

 

No parking, needs a total facelift on the outside, windows, etc.  Interior has a floor plan that is terrible for both office or residential...  I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it to try & take it down.

 

Big picture, no matter what the County gets for these properties, it's a win.  They are paying millions to maintain them, even from the most basic standpoint, and getting nothing in return. 

There's a handful of properties on that list that are very desireable.  The two I'm most curious about are the least desireable:  Ameritrust Tower & the old County Juvenile Court buildings

 

How could the Breuer Tower be considered the least desirable?  Asbestos free, 29-story tower by mid century master, attached jewel box banking hall, parking, at the crossroads of an area in the city with an apartment vacancy rate of 2%.  Sounds like a pretty good deal to me...

 

No parking, needs a total facelift on the outside, windows, etc.  Interior has a floor plan that is terrible for both office or residential...  I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it to try & take it down.

 

Big picture, no matter what the County gets for these properties, it's a win.  They are paying millions to maintain them, even from the most basic standpoint, and getting nothing in return. 

If I remember the layout right, I wouldn't call it terrible for residential. Less than ideal sure, but not terrible. The interior would need serious work to convert it, but considering they ripped out the asbestos, it's already gutted.

And how is there no parking when it is connected to a garage?

^^^Are you really predicting that the county will end up selling the Ameritrust complex for less than almost every other property in its portfolio?  I'll happily take that bet.

 

Also, would the garage be excluded from the sale of the complex?

^^^Are you really predicting that the county will end up selling the Ameritrust complex for less than almost every other property in its portfolio?  I'll happily take that bet.

 

Also, would the garage be excluded from the sale of the complex?

 

No that's not what I'm predicting or saying at all.  I'm just saying these properties are costing the County money everyday in upkeep, utilities, security, insurance, etc. 

 

Parking garage is included with the Ameritrust complex.  Full info here: http://pmc.pdt.cbre.com/IG/cuyahoga/pdf/bro/Ameritrust.pdf

 

Interesting note on the last page of the brochure that various buildings in this complex would qualify for historic or new market tax credits...

I wonder if they'll sell of the complex as one or pieces. The smaller buildings at Prospect and E 9th would be great for residential. I wouldn't shed a tear if they razed the Breuer tower. But only if they do something big in it's place. Maybe a highrise wrapped around the bank rotunda at the corner. It doesn't have to be 30 floors but something close.

 

The comment about new market tax credits is interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's predominantly for development in low-income areas right? Would anybody consider putting subsidized housing downtown in any large amount?

Not sure if this link has been posted yet, but it links to PDF brochures of all the properties.  Ameritrust Tower is certainly the largest & most complex property listed.  http://pmc.pdt.cbre.com/IG/cuyahoga/dispo.html

 

The buildings at 1276 West 3rd & 310 West Lakeside also look to have potential for residential redevelopment.

^^^Are you really predicting that the county will end up selling the Ameritrust complex for less than almost every other property in its portfolio?  I'll happily take that bet.

 

Also, would the garage be excluded from the sale of the complex?

 

No that's not what I'm predicting or saying at all.  I'm just saying these properties are costing the County money everyday in upkeep, utilities, security, insurance, etc. 

 

Parking garage is included with the Ameritrust complex.  Full info here: http://pmc.pdt.cbre.com/IG/cuyahoga/pdf/bro/Ameritrust.pdf

 

Interesting note on the last page of the brochure that various buildings in this complex would qualify for historic or new market tax credits...

 

Well of course it would qualify for historic tax credits.  It was recommended for the federal credits by the state back in 08'(but dont think it got that far before things fell apart) and would certainly be one of the best candidates for state credits that I can think of.  New Market as well.

 

I still dont understand why you say there is no parking when the attached parking garage is included? 

until I read the flyer, I didn't realize the parking structure across the street was being sold with the rotunda & tower

I love this picture, posted in the county HQ relocation thread (and is from MayDay's clevelandskyscrapers.com). It really belongs here since the county isn't relocating to the Breuer, but is included in the county's fire sale.....

 

Been looking for that photo for months!

BTW, the debate in the other thread about whether to demolish or keep this building.... I vote for keeping it. I think this building offers great potential for a high-rise luxury apartment building. The day that it re-opens, it will immediately be downtown's tallest apartment tower at 29 stories. Replicating that will be difficult and expensive. And offering the tallest apartment building downtown could allow it to charge higher rents. It has huge floor-to-ceiling windows which will give residents great views of downtown, the lake, the ballparks, playhouse square, etc. that they can't get from any other building anywhere. It is also next to a HealthLine station which links it to University Circle where rents are higher than downtown. Add in a winter garden (and boutique hotel?) concept in the rotunda with a cafe and retailer and I think this building could offer rents equal to what UC offers.

 

But the building height and the floor-to-ceiling windows would reel me in. So don't tear it down!

BTW, the debate in the other thread about whether to demolish or keep this building.... I vote for keeping it. I think this building offers great potential for a high-rise luxury apartment building. The day that it re-opens, it will immediately be downtown's tallest apartment tower at 29 stories. Replicating that will be difficult and expensive. And offering the tallest apartment building downtown could allow it to charge higher rents. It has huge floor-to-ceiling windows which will give residents great views of downtown, the lake, the ballparks, playhouse square, etc. that they can't get from any other building anywhere. It is also next to a HealthLine station which links it to University Circle where rents are higher than downtown. Add in a winter garden (and boutique hotel?) concept in the rotunda with a cafe and retailer and I think this building could offer rents equal to what UC offers.

 

But the building height and the floor-to-ceiling windows would reel me in. So don't tear it down!

I also vote to keep it, but not for apartment conversion.  I would rather see the county move into this building, and convert their existing spaces to residential.  I just think apartment conversion here would put a solid 600 units on the market which may flood this section of Euclid with too many apartments giving the vacancy % a much un-needed boost.  I don't want to see residential get ahead of itself.  If the PS parking lots were already full of apartments , and they were leased, then I may say lets try this.  I just don't think the city is ready for this yet.

I don't know why its even being speculated about the county moving here. Its not gonna happen. The building is too inefficient for modern office space. They're not moving here. I think they've been pretty clear on that. Plus, I don't think they want anything to do with this entire complex anymore because of its political baggage. So I say, apartment conversion or tear it down cause the county is not moving there. That's not even an option.

There is a 97 PERCENT occupancy rate downtown. Apartment buildings downtown have 3 and 400 people waiting lists. And we're still not where we need to be. We need roughly 10,000 more residents, give or take. Nickel and diming apartment projects isn't going to get us there, and waiting until parking lots are developed before you take low hanging fruit like this tower is almost a guarantee that we'll be waiting until 2060 to get to the number of residents we need. No thanks. Convert the building to residential. If its high quality and reasonably priced, it'll be snapped up. We have enough market evidence to know that now.

BTW, the debate in the other thread about whether to demolish or keep this building.... I vote for keeping it. I think this building offers great potential for a high-rise luxury apartment building. The day that it re-opens, it will immediately be downtown's tallest apartment tower at 29 stories. Replicating that will be difficult and expensive. And offering the tallest apartment building downtown could allow it to charge higher rents. It has huge floor-to-ceiling windows which will give residents great views of downtown, the lake, the ballparks, playhouse square, etc. that they can't get from any other building anywhere. It is also next to a HealthLine station which links it to University Circle where rents are higher than downtown. Add in a winter garden (and boutique hotel?) concept in the rotunda with a cafe and retailer and I think this building could offer rents equal to what UC offers.

 

But the building height and the floor-to-ceiling windows would reel me in. So don't tear it down!

I also vote to keep it, but not for apartment conversion.  I would rather see the county move into this building, and convert their existing spaces to residential.  I just think apartment conversion here would put a solid 600 units on the market which may flood this section of Euclid with too many apartments giving the vacancy % a much un-needed boost.  I don't want to see residential get ahead of itself.  If the PS parking lots were already full of apartments , and they were leased, then I may say lets try this.  I just don't think the city is ready for this yet.

 

I think 600 units is a bit high.  Consider the floor plates are 13,500 sf, including elevators and mechanical, so realistically about 10,000 sf of usable space.  Assuming a developer looks at them as luxury-type one-bed room units at about 1,000 sf on average, that's at most 10 units per floor.  Remove the first and maybe second floor from the equation as common space and that's 27 floors x 10 units per floor for 270 total units.  Even if you include the 1010 building in the equation that might only add an additional 80 units, so around 350 units total.

 

As a reference, K&D's proposal for the East Ohio Gas Building - at 350,000 sf - netted 223 units, so I'd think this would be a similar breakdown.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/03/kd_group_plans_to_buy_redevelo.html

BTW, the debate in the other thread about whether to demolish or keep this building.... I vote for keeping it. I think this building offers great potential for a high-rise luxury apartment building. The day that it re-opens, it will immediately be downtown's tallest apartment tower at 29 stories. Replicating that will be difficult and expensive. And offering the tallest apartment building downtown could allow it to charge higher rents. It has huge floor-to-ceiling windows which will give residents great views of downtown, the lake, the ballparks, playhouse square, etc. that they can't get from any other building anywhere. It is also next to a HealthLine station which links it to University Circle where rents are higher than downtown. Add in a winter garden (and boutique hotel?) concept in the rotunda with a cafe and retailer and I think this building could offer rents equal to what UC offers.

 

But the building height and the floor-to-ceiling windows would reel me in. So don't tear it down!

 

And the best part about that view?  The Breuer Tower wouldn't be in it!  :evil:

 

Seriously, though, I think converting this building to apartments would be fantastic and would go a long way towards re-enlivening the dead zone around E. 9th.

I also vote to keep it, but not for apartment conversion.  I would rather see the county move into this building, and convert their existing spaces to residential.  I just think apartment conversion here would put a solid 600 units on the market which may flood this section of Euclid with too many apartments giving the vacancy % a much un-needed boost.  I don't want to see residential get ahead of itself.  If the PS parking lots were already full of apartments , and they were leased, then I may say lets try this.  I just don't think the city is ready for this yet.

 

The county has this building for sale. If that isn't enough evidence they have no interest in this building I don't know what is. I wrote an article a few months ago in which I interviewed one county council person and one county administrator who both said that the county is likely moving to the Huntington Building.

 

Maybe the Breuer Tower could win more financing if it was a mix of apartments and hotel rooms?

 

BTW, I don't think the Breuer Tower is particularly attractive, but it's large windows and its height are great assets. It's asbestos has already been removed, too. If the interiors are also attractive, or could be made so, then I think it's a winner. I've lived in a seven-story condo building for nearly 16 years, and I love it. It's an ugly building from the outside, but it's nice looking on the inside and has some nice views. So I couldn't care less how it looks from outside! :)

And the best part about that view?  The Breuer Tower wouldn't be in it!  :evil:

That's hilarious. And true.

 

I'm sure the windows are decent sized, but the sculpting and shadows from the outside makes them look like portholes on a submarine.

The windows look small from the street, but are as big as a full-grown man.