Just speculation,  but other than K & D  does anyone know of someone else in the downtown Office to residential development business.  Just curious if there are any other potential players.

Good question.  I was hoping to see some return to the market that hadnt been active here in while such as the  Ferchill Group (who did such a nice job on the Book-Cadillac in Detroit).  Plus who knows, the Morans keep getting more ambitious.  Im sure they could pull something nice off. 

But also, would be good to see developers from outside Cleveland interested with the many projects that are now in the works or near completion.      K and D cant be the only game in town and frankly needs some competition. 

K&D also seems to have their hands full with Hanna Annex, Embassy Suites and East Ohio/1919 East 9th. Unless they drop one of those (probably East Ohio is the least certain to accomplish), I don't see them making their lives even more complicated by taking on The Breuer.

I agree with competition. But this site is so important that I really don't care who does it

I agree with competition. But this site is so important that I really don't care who does it

 

Isn't that all the more reason to care? I see what you're saying though, that this site must be returned to productive use.

^You should care. The Marons and MRN have done the best urban development in Cleveland. Those guys are the only ones I'd trust to do something quality with that site. But I'd be surprised to see them take on a project that ambitious.

 

I am a convert. I originally wanted the Breuer tower demo'ed for something grand in it's place. It's ugly, but it has character. A good refurbishing of the exterior would go a long way. Though, feel free to demo the small office building just south of it for something new (please, not another parking structure).

I agree with competition. But this site is so important that I really don't care who does it

 

Isn't that all the more reason to care? I see what you're saying though, that this site must be returned to productive use.

 

Exactly. Not that I don't care about the quality of the project. But that this is so important that I don't care about who's name is on the door.

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy ends up being involved somehow...

 

The most important guy you've never heard of: Chaim Schochet, 25, builds downtown Cleveland empire

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/the_most_important_guy_youve_n.html

 

^You should care. The Marons and MRN have done the best urban development in Cleveland. Those guys are the only ones I'd trust to do something quality with that site. But I'd be surprised to see them take on a project that ambitious.

 

I am a convert. I originally wanted the Breuer tower demo'ed for something grand in it's place. It's ugly, but it has character. A good refurbishing of the exterior would go a long way. Though, feel free to demo the small office building just south of it for something new (please, not another parking structure).

 

MRN in this project would be nice. But I'm not gonna be crying if K&D gets it. That's called "not letting perfect be the enemy of good." It would be absurd to be upset about K&D getting it, especially when this is a key building in a key corridor and we already know what K&D would do with it, and it's not bad. If we complain about K&D getting this building and, I don't know, actually putting it to good use, that's like the Browns winning two games in a row and people complaining cause it was ugly. Who cares? A win is a win is a win. If MRN gets this building, it's a win. If K&D gets it, it's a win. Period. A win is a win.

It's not a win unless there a plans, for use and they are executed.  If the building is purchased and then sits vacant, for more than 3 months, it's not a win.

 

^You should care. The Marons and MRN have done the best urban development in Cleveland. Those guys are the only ones I'd trust to do something quality with that site. But I'd be surprised to see them take on a project that ambitious.

 

I am a convert. I originally wanted the Breuer tower demo'ed for something grand in it's place. It's ugly, but it has character. A good refurbishing of the exterior would go a long way. Though, feel free to demo the small office building just south of it for something new (please, not another parking structure).

Small office building south of it??

 

As late as last year K&D still wanted to do some variation of the Ameritrust plan they originally had in 2008. So as I said before, we have a pretty good idea what K&D would do with the building if they had it. So I stand by my original point. If they got it, it's a win

K&D did not submit.

K&D did not submit.

 

Thats great news (I had heard as much, but hadnt confirmed)..

^^I'd heard a rumor to that effect, but unconfirmed.

Sounds like the County needs a plumber! Great to hear all these leaks though.  I'm excited to start hearing some official results of all those bids.

Michelle Jarboe ran a story in September for the PD after the proposal deadline listing all of the developers that submitted bids to the county. The list she got from the county didn't connect the bids to any particular site.

 

If I remember correctly, neither K&D or MRN were on the list. That's not say they can't be involved as a side partner but neither is involved publicly yet.

 

edit: Here is the story.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/09/cuyahoga_county_real_estate_de.html

 

Michelle Jarboe ran a story in September for the PD after the proposal deadline listing all of the developers that submitted bids to the county. The list she got from the county didn't connect the bids to any particular site.

 

If I remember correctly, neither K&D or MRN were on the list. That's not say they can't be involved as a side partner but neither is involved publicly yet.

 

Here's the post about that article......

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1621.msg640951.html#msg640951

 

I see several companies (including some I don't trust) in that bidders list who could end up being the winner. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

I don't know about all of you, but to me, redevelopment of The Beuer would be second-most exciting downtown development for me. Only a tower built on Jacobs' Public Square parking lot would be more exciting in my book. I hope a responsible developer gets The Breuer.

^You're not the only one- as far as the potential impact on this area of downtown, I think we could guess that the storefronts around the complex could start to see some filling-in.  It would also be GREAT to see the Breuer with a clan facade after all these years. 

considering that the building is completely empty, the effect will basically be like building a new thirty story building on euclid.

My guess is Optima Ventures, with Agnew Limited being the other bidder.

My guess is Optima Ventures, with Agnew Limited being the other bidder.

 

Those are probably good guesses. I'll be watching the news a lot today. Or, pop over to the rotunda today for the lunchtime concert and ask questions of the officials on hand.

My guess is Optima Ventures, with Agnew Limited being the other bidder.

 

Those are probably good guesses. I'll be watching the news a lot today. Or, pop over to the rotunda today for the lunchtime concert and ask questions of the officials on hand.

 

Please do! Shouldn't we be getting near official word? I forgot the timetable

My guess is Optima Ventures, with Agnew Limited being the other bidder.

 

Those are probably good guesses. I'll be watching the news a lot today. Or, pop over to the rotunda today for the lunchtime concert and ask questions of the officials on hand.

 

Please do! Shouldn't we be getting near official word? I forgot the timetable

 

From yesterday:  "Look for an announcment this week sometime as to who won the bid for the Ameritrust complex."

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2012/12/ed_fitzgerald_during_town_hall.html#incart_river_default

 

Tuesday.

Ugh. I hate waiting. I asked a few public officials today at the Circle In The City lunchtime concert at the Ameritrust Rotunda about who is buying the building. None of them said they knew.

Guesses?  K&D???

Guesses?  K&D???

 

See the prior page and the guesses going back two days. Some are pretty certain K&D is not in the picture. I am not surprises considering how much is on their plate already (Hanna Annex, Embassy Suites, East Ohio/1919 East 9th).

It's great to see everyone excited, but lets not turn this into several pages of speculation.  We will find out Tuesday.  Hopefully we will find out the buyer's plan for the building then, too!

Ugh.  I know someone who knows and he won't tell me!!!  Not that I would disclose publicly if he did, but I want to know!!!

Ugh.  I know someone who knows and he won't tell me!!!  Not that I would disclose publicly if he did, but I want to know!!!

 

Tell me in a private message and I'll disclose it publicly! ;-)

Ugh.  I know someone who knows and he won't tell me!!!  Not that I would disclose publicly if he did, but I want to know!!!

 

Then why bring it up?  WTF?!

Like I said, he won't tell me!  I bring it up because I'm frustrated I couldn't get it out of him!

Like I said, he won't tell me!  I bring it up because I'm frustrated I couldn't get it out of him!

 

And bring it up here, is just a tease!  UGH!  You kids!

Like I said, he won't tell me!  I bring it up because I'm frustrated I couldn't get it out of him!

 

Then how appropriate that your last post was your 666th post, cuz' you're putting us through hell!

 

Why don't you give me your friend's name in private and I'll get it out of him...  :whip:

for a breuer comparison and some inspiration -- the former dulski federal office bldg in buffalo:

 

 

http://realneo.us/blog/jeff-buster/buffalo-ny-saves-structural-skeleton-of-building-similar-to-breuers-cleveland-ameritrust-tower

 

http://highpeaksphotography.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/the-dulski-federal-buildingavant-building-a-giant-recycling-project/

 

One of the bidders for a county property is "Herrick Hudson LLC, the same company involved in long-running litigation with the county over a ground-lease under part of the Ameritrust complex. Cleveland parking-lot owner Lou Frangos, who represents Herrick Hudson, attended the county's potential bidders conference in August and has previously expressed an interest in the Ameritrust property. The lawsuit, over the terms and renewal of a lease on land under the P and H office buildings on East Ninth Street, has stalled on its way to arbitration."

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/09/cuyahoga_county_real_estate_de.html

 

I am hopeful that this bidder is not interested in the Breuer Tower/Rotunda, or does not "win" this property. This letter indicates why:

http://ameritrustcrime.com/

I am hopeful that this bidder is not interested in the Breuer Tower/Rotunda, or does not "win" this property. This letter indicates why:

http://ameritrustcrime.com/

 

Wow, crazy "story", never read that...and all this time I just thought Frangos was a sleezy parking lot "developer".

Holy crap!!...please be good news!

 

Cuyahoga County to sell Ameritrust buildings to unnamed buyerPublished: Friday, December 07, 2012, 7:51 AM    Updated: Friday, December 07, 2012, 7:58 AM

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County has a buyer for the long-vacant Ameritrust complex, but county Executive Ed FitzGerald declined Thursday to release details of the proposed deal.

 

 

FitzGerald said he will take the Ameritrust deal, and a plan to lease or buy an unspecified downtown building to consolidate county offices, to County Council for consideration on Tuesday.

 

"We wanted to get the Ameritrust complex out of the county's hands and back into the stream of commerce," he said in a phone interview. "We wanted to make sure it could be part of the revitalization of Euclid Avenue. Ideally we wanted someone who was going to develop it and pay taxes on it and recoup some of what the county paid for it."

 

County commissioners bought the Ameritrust property -- which includes a 28-story tower, historic bank rotunda and cluster of surrounding buildings at Euclid and East Ninth Street -- in 2005 for $21.8 million. They envisioned converting the complex into a headquarters for county government, but abandoned the plan two years later for lack of money.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2012/12/cuyahoga_county_to_sell_ameritrust.html

I was kind of hoping that the County would just sell the tower and hang onto the Rotunda.... especially if the plan is to consolidate its offices in the Huntington Bldg.  I suppose it is not out of the question that whomever buys the complex leases the Rotunda back to the County.

 

If the County were to consolidate into the Huntington and somehow also find a use for the Rotunda, that opens up the possibility for some discussion on a skybridge running between the two structures (*ducks*)

I was kind of hoping that the County would just sell the tower and hang onto the Rotunda.... especially if the plan is to consolidate its offices in the Huntington Bldg.  I suppose it is not out of the question that whomever buys the complex leases the Rotunda back to the County.

 

If the County were to consolidate into the Huntington and somehow also find a use for the Rotunda, that opens up the possibility for some discussion on a skybridge running between the two structures (*ducks*)

 

A sky bridge into the rotunda? Oh lord save us... You just opened a can of worms LOL

I was kind of hoping that the County would just sell the tower and hang onto the Rotunda.... especially if the plan is to consolidate its offices in the Huntington Bldg.  I suppose it is not out of the question that whomever buys the complex leases the Rotunda back to the County.

 

If the County were to consolidate into the Huntington and somehow also find a use for the Rotunda, that opens up the possibility for some discussion on a skybridge running between the two structures (*ducks*)

 

This deserves more than a picture

If the County were to consolidate into the Huntington and somehow also find a use for the Rotunda, that opens up the possibility for some discussion on a skybridge running between the two structures (*ducks*)

 

No.....  No.

I would vote for a tunnel.  Huntington already has the sublevel buildout in place (shops)  as does the Rotunda (vault).  All it would take is a few hours and some shovels.

I've researched each of the potential bidders for their business focus, expertise, product lines, etc. Then looked at various media coverage of them locally and elsewhere, for indications of their interest. I also looked for indications regarding the county's intentions. These were the most instructive: http://clevelandmagazinepolitics.blogspot.com/2012/07/fitzgerald-era-vs-dimora-era-9-ways-new.html

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/09/cuyahoga_county_real_estate_de.html#incart_river_default

 

As best I can tell, there are only three very obvious bidders for the old Ameritrust Tower and Rotunda.....

 

Agnew Limited Partners LLC -- proposes a high-end hotel and apartment complex that would include a plastic-surgery center. In mid-2010, county officials expressed skepticism about Agnew's proposal.

 

Herrick Hudson LLC -- involved in long-running litigation with the county over a ground-lease under part of the Ameritrust complex. Cleveland parking-lot owner Lou Frangos, who represents Herrick Hudson, has expressed an interest in the Ameritrust property.

 

Optima Ventures -- interestingly, Optima submitted two bids to the county, indicating that the company is a potential buyer of county real estate and a would-be landlord for the county's headquarters. One of the bids was submitted as from "Optima 925 LLC" which owns the former Huntington building.

 

None of the other bidders appear interested in the county administration building or aren't in the competition anymore. Forest City, which owns the Halle Building, or Sovereign Partners, which owns the old East Ohio Gas tower at 1717 East 9th, both appear to be out of the running. Some bidders are clearly in this competition to land the county's 200,000-square-foot records/storage facility, such as Cleveland Commerce One LLC, East 55th Cleveland LLC, Greystone Properties, or Industrial Realty Group.

 

My take on this? Agnew isn't being taken seriously by the county and I think the county wants to get as far away from Herrick Hudson as possible. It's too connected to the county's old regimes and the old ways of doing things. I think the county wants to do something new and grand and catalytic for downtown. And that's why I think the sale of the county administration building AND the Ameritrust Center sale are both being announced on the same day. The others transactions are being announced separately.

 

Why?

 

Because I think that the sale of the administration building, the redevelopment of that site, the lease for the new home of the administration offices AND the buyer of the Ameritrust tower and rotunda will all be via the same company -- Optima.

 

Optima not only owns office buildings in Cleveland, but they also appear to manage, list or broker luxury condo developments in Miami as Optima Realty Group LLC. So it is not a stretch for them to acquire and develop the Ameritrust Tower into apartments. And Optima's Chaim Schochet loves historic architecture....

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/the_most_important_guy_youve_n.html

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110228/FREE/302289956/1004/REALESTATE&template=printart

 

The old Cleveland Trust Rotunda is one of the city's grandest treasures -- as is the mammoth Union Commerce Bank lobby across Euclid in a building he already owns. "I've always had a thing for architecture," he told the PD.

 

But the biggest reason why I think Tuesday's announcement will go to Optima? Business. He already owns 2.8 million square feet of offices here. So the best thing he can do for those is to firm up the rents. How? Two ways....

 

One, by taking vacant office space off the market. You take 225,000 square feet of offices out of the administration building and use it to fill a big vacancy at the old Huntington Building that will open up in 2013. You acquire and then demolish the administration building to ensure it doesn't go on the market, possibly with the county helping to finance a hotel or some other use there, using revenues from discounted sale or rent prices at the old Huntington, or at the Ameritrust Tower. And the other way you improve office rents is by providing more places for downtown office workers to live nearby. You do that by converting the Ameritrust Tower into housing. It firms up office rents by helping to make his and other downtown offices more attractive and convenient because there would be more people living downtown. So when downtown is a more active, vibrant place with more amenities in quality public spaces like the Cleveland Trust rotunda or the Union Commerce atrium, it becomes a more attractive place for current and future office tenants.

 

Optima's Chaim Schochet believes in Cleveland. He has the cash and the vision to make something big happen. And frankly, that's his desire and his style....

 

“I've not seen anything like this before. They really, really believe in Cleveland." said Kevin Piunno, a longtime Cleveland real estate broker who serves as Optima's leasing representative.

You are too cool for school, my friend

Nice analysis

So you can bid for multiple properties? That makes sense, i just hadn't thought of it until you posted your (impressive) analysis, KJP. So say my imaginary company wanted to bid for county buildings...I could put in an offer to buy 900 Euclid, 925 Lakeside, and the county administration building all in one bid?

Thanks. Of course, I could end up looking like a blind man with an emptied shotgun by the end of the day Tuesday!

When they make this announcement on Tuesday, are we talking about a closed deal, meaning title has transfered or will soon.  Or are we about a purchase agreement( with 6months or a year to get financing)? http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/272707/45/Cleveland-Ameritrust-complex-sold-by-county

Tuesday is when Fitzgerald presents it to county council for review and approval. 

l'chaim! l'chaim! to life to life l'chaim!

 

KJP, impressive analysis.

 

Can't wait till Tuesday!