^I guess I have a question?  Is this actually the final design or is it 50-75% conceptual at this time.  Seems kinda early to have something concrete and ready to build when it was unknown whether your proposal was actually going to be the one accepted.

Its conceptual in nature, but seems set at 8 stories though. 

^Yeah I get the impression that the square footage and eight stories is set in stone but would think that there is still an opportunity to wow it up.

This is Geis. That is wowed up.

This is Geis. That is wowed up.

 

You might be right.

Just Speculating, But is Financing a slam dunk. How do they plan on financing the 27 million purchase and then 100 million in improvements.  K & D had a 6 month option to secure financing and could not get financing.

 

I would assume Geis feels pretty confident about financing if he's willing to pay a premium on the property far beyond the appraised value. It doesn't look like this sale would be contingent on him being able to secure financing, so he must feel relatively secure to take on acquisition costs of that size. I wonder how long the county lease will be? Assuming they're on the hook for the full 26 years before they would assume ownership, that's approximately $169 million of guaranteed revenue for the project before you even get to any apartment/retail income. I would think that would be a pretty compelling guarantee for financiers.

I like the design.  Certainly better than what the county has now.

^Yeah I get the impression that the square footage and eight stories is set in stone but would think that there is still an opportunity to wow it up.

 

For sure--I'm not worried by the rendering per se, more about Geis's aesthetic sensibilities more generally.

At least there's no surface parking or greenspace, and it's built up to the property lines. It's got that going for it I guess.

Might as well post this just to have it available here......

 

Geis Cos. plan for new Cuyahoga County offices could revive troubled downtown Cleveland intersection

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

on December 11, 2012 at 9:15 PM, updated December 12, 2012 at 10:52 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Geis Cos. plan to build a new Cuyahoga County headquarters on East Ninth Street could revive a stricken downtown Cleveland intersection and whisk the shroud off the long-vacant Ameritrust complex.

 

County Executive Ed FitzGerald announced Tuesday that Geis, a Streetsboro developer, will buy the Ameritrust complex, demolish a dingy office building and construct a new home for the county. If the County Council concurs next month, 700 to 800 government workers will move to East Ninth, just south of Euclid Avenue, in mid-2014.

 

The announcement surprised some onlookers after months of speculation about where the county would move. With details trickling out Tuesday, local real estate experts said it's difficult to tell how good of a deal the county is getting. But all of them said FitzGerald's decision and the Geis plan, an investment of more than $180 million, will lure additional development to a troubled section of the center city.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/12/geis_coss_plan_to_build_a_new.html

This rendering of the administration building was posted on twitter by michelle. It is a bit different than what is in that document, and imo looks better. Still has that ugly skywalk though...

 

https://twitter.com/mjarboe/status/278953655875551232/photo/1

Edit: ^ yeah that one. apparently I clicked on the thread just moments before you posted.

 

I think we only have moderate quality copies of the rendering floating around here, so here's a better one.

 

C/O: @mjarboe - https://twitter.com/mjarboe/status/278953655875551232/photo/1/large

The more I look at this thing the more I think somebody just did this for the proposal for something to look at.  Maybe I am wrong but the rendering simply looks like the building that is there (the doors on the corner almost look the same as does the bridge to an extent) and then somebody just played with it to give it an "updated" look.  I am guessing that while the footprint and shape may look the same in the end the final product is still in the works.  Who knows what that will look like.

The more I look at this thing the more I think somebody just did this for the proposal for something to look at.  Maybe I am wrong but the rendering simply looks like the building that is there (the doors on the corner almost look the same as does the bridge to an extent) and then somebody just played with it to give it an "updated" look.  I am guessing that while the footprint and shape may look the same in the end the final product is still in the works.  Who knows what that will look like.

 

You're probably right, and I was thinking the same thing about the street level windows, and thought that the pedestrian bridge not being touched was weird. But looking around at the rest of the building the window break down the prospect side matches up among other things.

A bit off topic, but can someone, ANYONE design a better logo for Cuyahoga County before we plaster it up there on a building? I mean sheesh! ;-)

Here is the other more updated rendering

 

^ I'll take it. Now I'd love to see if they can improve the abysmal street presence of the parking garage.

It should go all glass. Like Tulsa's City Hall, also known as the Borg Cube

 

Here is the other more updated rendering

 

 

What is more updated?  It looks the same as the one in the presentation.

The more I look at this thing the more I think somebody just did this for the proposal for something to look at.  Maybe I am wrong but the rendering simply looks like the building that is there (the doors on the corner almost look the same as does the bridge to an extent) and then somebody just played with it to give it an "updated" look.  I am guessing that while the footprint and shape may look the same in the end the final product is still in the works.  Who knows what that will look like.

 

this guy. ^

Here is the other more updated rendering

 

 

What is more updated?  It looks the same as the one in the presentation.

 

They populated the sidewalk with more rendering people

The more I look at this thing the more I think somebody just did this for the proposal for something to look at.  Maybe I am wrong but the rendering simply looks like the building that is there (the doors on the corner almost look the same as does the bridge to an extent) and then somebody just played with it to give it an "updated" look.  I am guessing that while the footprint and shape may look the same in the end the final product is still in the works.  Who knows what that will look like.

 

this guy. ^

 

I'll wager that's exactly what they did -- took a photo and "re-drew" the building.

Here is the other more updated rendering

 

 

What is more updated?  It looks the same as the one in the presentation.

 

Its better looking than the version Loretto shared.  But it is the one from the presentation

Renamed thread

I couldn't be happier with the outcome of this whole process. I love when a project affects such a large portion of real estate. We are looking at a good chunk of E9th and around the corner on Euclid. That whole street scape will look different in a couple of years. But I'm trying to wrap my head around the proposed timetable. Are they really talking mid 2014 for completion. That's not something we are used to. And reading into it,  it appears that the rotunda might be in play as part of the county's public space. I suggested that here last year,  I think it would work well for that. Because unless Geis has some tenants in mind any retail for that space would be a tough sell in these times.

Also concerning the rendering, everyone needs to chill out with overreaction to what most likely is a dressed up massing.  Personally I would be fine with it. The point I think most are missing is that FitzGerald wants this to be an example of how county government should be run. The building will be on time on budget, it will be efficient and practical, simple and transparent. You won't see any starchitecture here. He wants to remove himself as much as possible from the previous county administrations involvement in the original Ameritrust/Breuer deal and projects such as the Juvenile Detention Center and contractors like Michael Forlani.

Looks like next week it will be open for a lunch event

Looks like next week it will be open for a lunch event

 

Can you share more info? Links? Or is this just the continuing series of Circle In The City lunchtime concerts.

I couldn't be happier with the outcome of this whole process. I love when a project affects such a large portion of real estate. We are looking at a good

Also concerning the rendering, everyone needs to chill out with overreaction to what most likely is a dressed up massing.  Personally I would be fine with it. The point I think most are missing is that FitzGerald wants this to be an example of how county government should be run. The building will be on time on budget, it will be efficient and practical, simple and transparent. You won't see any starchitecture here. He wants to remove himself as much as possible from the previous county administrations involvement in the original Ameritrust/Breuer deal and projects such as the Juvenile Detention Center and contractors like Michael Forlani.

 

Note, though, that the county isn't developing this building.  Other than some contractual input on the deliverable space, the county won't be managing the design and construction.  So no possibility of going "over budget" once the lease terms are nailed down.  By the same token though, Geiss will want to keep costs low so, you're right we won't likely see a great looking building come out of this.

Correct.  Geis is building a structure and then basically entering into a rent-to-own contract with the County.  Regardless, first and foremost, the building must be functional and efficient.  We don't need another Cares Tower debacle.

The more I look at this thing the more I think somebody just did this for the proposal for something to look at.  Maybe I am wrong but the rendering simply looks like the building that is there (the doors on the corner almost look the same as does the bridge to an extent) and then somebody just played with it to give it an "updated" look.  I am guessing that while the footprint and shape may look the same in the end the final product is still in the works.  Who knows what that will look like.

 

this guy. ^

 

If you look at the rendering he was referring to, which is different than the one on this page, I would say he is correct with some minor changes to with glazing, which could be accomplished by simply removing some of the existing solid paneling and infilling with new glazing.

^Huh?  I think you might be mis-reading my post.  The building there is clearly going to be demolition per the proposal.  I was just indicating that the building presented in the proposal is probably not the final design (or even close to it).  I was just suggesting that they took a photo of what was there and did some computer imaging simply so it could be included in the proposal and that it will still be some time before we see what will actually be on the corner.

Well.... we know it is going to be 8 floors.  I have a strong feeling it will indeed have a 'boxy shape'.... especially when you consider the green roof requires a flat top.  What part of the design to you expect to change all that much?

^I have no idea.  And as I stated in a previous post it is clear it will have eight floors and probably retain the same footprint.  The only point I was making was that what was presented in the proposal (and what many were freaking out about) is not the final design but just a computer imagine that was put together (probably rather quickly) to include in the presentation to the county.  I am looking forward to seeing what they will do but like many others not expecting something that dramatic.  Would love the old Westlake design.

Looks like next week it will be open for a lunch event

 

Can you share more info? Links? Or is this just the continuing series of Circle In The City lunchtime concerts.

 

Precisely

Did you know these are weekly and have held three already? They are very nice. If you haven't been to one, you should go.

glassing out that dull old 60s-70s nadir of architecture era box will certainly brighten that corner up as well as symbolically make local government more transparent (ha one can only hope). and soeaking of symbolism, the open green roof is certainly symbolic of forward thinking in general.

 

it does seem like that preliminary render will be fleshed out with detailed final renders at some point. for one thing, they seem to want the old skywalk, but they cannot be serious about just leaving it as is -- it will need a redo too. and they better not forget to add some groovy led lighting to it.

 

Why would you not want a direct, enclosed connection to a large parking garage, ugly though the connection and parking garage may be?

Why would you not want a direct, enclosed connection to a large parking garage, ugly though the connection and parking garage may be?

While there are scenarios where skywalks are acceptable or even beneficial, but in general they tend to reduce the foot traffic in the area and discourage walking and pedestrian improvements.

 

In the case of this building, you're effectively making an employee entrance and a visitor entrance. You're basically saying to county employees that it's ok to drive to work, walk through the skywalk, and go to work and then take the skywalk back out to your car, then drive home. Effectively eliminating the likelyhood that most of these employees will ever set foot in any part of the city except their office, thus insulating them from the experience of the city and insulating the city from the benefits of having them in their midst.

Why would you not want a direct, enclosed connection to a large parking garage, ugly though the connection and parking garage may be?

There are scenarios where skywalks are acceptable or even beneficial, but in general they tend to reduce the foot traffic in the area and discourage walking and pedestrian improvements.

 

In this case, IMO, it would not discourage anything. The people that will be working are going to come from where ever they live (probably a good guess that a vast majority of the employees work from outs side the city border), park there cars in the garage and go to work likely via the skywalk. I feel once a worker has found there parking spot, they will not likely leave to go to lunch and have to deal with coming back to find another parking spot. They will more than likely, if they do not bring there own food, just walk to one of the many close by restaurants.

 

Those coming in for business will likely do the same if they intend on making time to grab a bite (or eventually, I hope, shop in some of the fine retail spaces that will come along Euclid). Once you find a spot to park downtown, one tends to hold on to that for as long as you can, even going back to feed the meter.

 

The Casino skywalk proposal is a different story all together, and i am not in favor of that at all. If I were to be employed by the county in the new building, or live in the tower, the skywalk would be a huge selling point. Not any different than having a home with a garage (in the back of the house, of course... not in the front - hate those :)  )

 

 

EDIT: (I was composing my response the same time you edited yours, Keith. Regardless, I do not agree completely with you. I worked at City hall for a year and every Friday, weather permitting, the office would WALK to a place near by for lunch. These office mates were from all over the area, not just the city)

Are there studies to back that up? I mean, I think of Minneapolis and all its underground tunnels between buildings, and yet there was still a retail and restaurant scene in the downtown when I visited. Also, is the consensus here that the Cleveland Clinic is responsible for hurting outside retail in University circle because of those skywalks above Euclid Av? There are 20 thousand workers, plus quite a few patients and families, there alone, and yet zero shops outside.

 

It just seems to me you guys are inflating how much skywalks hurt or affect a city.

Why would you not want a direct, enclosed connection to a large parking garage, ugly though the connection and parking garage may be?

There are scenarios where skywalks are acceptable or even beneficial, but in general they tend to reduce the foot traffic in the area and discourage walking and pedestrian improvements.

 

In this case, IMO, it would not discourage anything. The people that will be working are going to come from where ever they live (probably a good guess that a vast majority of the employees work from outs side the city border), park there cars in the garage and go to work likely via the skywalk. I feel once a worker has found there parking spot, they will not likely leave to go to lunch and have to deal with coming back to find another parking spot. They will more than likely, if they do not bring there own food, just walk to one of the many close by restaurants.

 

Those coming in for business will likely do the same if they intend on making time to grab a bite (or eventually, I hope, shop in some of the fine retail spaces that will come along Euclid). Once you find a spot to park downtown, one tends to hold on to that for as long as you can, even going back to feed the meter.

 

The Casino skywalk proposal is a different story all together, and i am not in favor of that at all. If I were to be employed by the county in the new building, or live in the tower, the skywalk would be a huge selling point. Not any different than having a home with a garage (in the back of the house, of course... not in the front - hate those :)  )

 

Agree. It's no different than an attached parking garage for an office building. I work at One Cleveland Center and once you park and walk into the office, very few people go back to their car to drive somewhere for lunch.  I don't see a problem with this except that the skywalk has to be replaced. Please. :)

Are there studies to back that up? I mean, I think of Minneapolis and all its underground tunnels between buildings, and yet there was still a retail and restaurant scene in the downtown when I visited. Also, is the consensus here that the Cleveland Clinic is responsible for hurting outside retail in University circle because of those skywalks above Euclid Av? There are 20 thousand workers, plus quite a few patients and families, there alone, and yet zero shops outside.

 

It just seems to me you guys are inflating how much skywalks hurt or affect a city.

 

Based on my travels, there are plenty of dissenters in Minneapolis on the subject of the skywalks.  Many there feel it does affect downtown street traffic, especially for out-of-town visitors who are unfamiliar with the lay of the land. 

 

Just did a quick google and found lots on the subject, including this editorial from a few years back:  http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2007/11/urban-designers-minneapolis-should-dump-skyways

Skywalks = ugly & bad for area restaurants

I hate skywalks because they're hideous.  I wouldn't object to underground connections. But if we do keep this skywalk (or replace it), I'm with mrnyc: can we at least have some fun with it and dress it up?  What about projecting the image of cool Flats bridges on the side of it?

That being said I see a potential design for this complex which could be really cool.... The interior ground floor would be open to the public, from Huron/Prospect north to the Rotunda exit out to Euclid and the HealthLine stop. So someone working for the county (or Gateway residents) could walk to Euclid along a retail corridor and have access to convenience stores, dry cleaners, cell phone store, cafes, etc. etc.

 

Combined with the retail corridor in the Huntington Building, you could walk much of the way from one 20+ story apartment tower (Breuer) to another (1717 East 9th) in climate protected comfort! If you cut through the parking garage behind Ohio Savings Plaza, you can stay out of the elements the entire way. The only time I'd have to go outside is to cross Walnut and Euclid since there is the tunnel under Chester. There are some of us who hate walking in the winter winds along East 9th, so anything that allows wimps like me to escape that will make downtown more attractive as a place to live, not just work.

 

What if we put a canopy over Euclid at the HealthLine station? I think it would enhance the pedestrian experience between two of Cleveland's greatest interior spaces -- the L-shaped lobby of the old Union Commerce and the atrium of the Cleveland Trust Rotunda.

I just don't see the advantage of a skywalk.  So people going to work don't have to cross the street?  Seems like a weak reason to me.  And since this is a government building, I think taxpayers should be upset that their dollars are being used so county workers don't have to go outside like the majority of the citizens they work for do.

At first I didn't care about the skywalk, since it is already there.  But, then I looked at the streetwall there on Prospect, and it is pretty impressive, and the skywalk covers that up.

 

If they want a climate controlled walk, maybe they can do it underground?

At first I didn't care about the skywalk, since it is already there.  But, then I looked at the streetwall there on Prospect, and it is pretty impressive, and the skywalk covers that up.

 

If they want a climate controlled walk, maybe they can do it underground?

 

WHY?  The skywalk is already there, and adding a underground tunnel would be a cost, right?  I dont want the county to spend more money than they already have.  Sure the Skywalk is an eyesore, but with redevelopment on both sides of East 9/Huron/Prospect it can be minimized with out building underground.  I'm so sick of hearing excuse for skywalks and tunnels, deal with the weather.  I'll use football as an example, we an old football city and people love the fact that we're an all weather football city, no matter the weather, you'll attend a Browns game and love it.  However, a simple walk on the streets in varied weather is an issue. 

I'll use football as an example, we an old football city and people love the fact that we're an all weather football city, no matter the weather, you'll attend a Browns game and love it.  However, a simple walk on the streets in varied weather is an issue. 

 

Bad example. I haven't been to a football game in years. While the primary reason is there are too many drunks in the stands, a secondary reason is the weather. The last few times I went, and that was probably in the early 2000s, I went because a friend or relative worked for a company that had a suite and invited me. That way I could avoid the drunks and the cold weather.

 

There are those of us who love downtown but hate the cold wind. Accommodate us (a nicer way of saying "deal with that").

Aesthetic appeal aside..... I do see a use in skywalks and other interior corridors between buildings of the same complex.  It's when the skywalks start to become part of some city-wide system that I start to object.  And I definitely feel that the aesthetics can be greatly improved with design and a little creativity.  For instance, how about some 'Welcome to Lower Prospect' type of thing incorporated into the design of any new skywalk they build here.