If that is really a concern, Gilbert could have a model of the full-blown $600m casino very visible within the temporary one.

 

Anyone know how much was spent for construction of the MGM in Detroit?

 

MGM Casino & Hotel in Detroit cost around $900 million.  Not sure if that included the purchase price of the land or gambling machines as well.

Mohegan sun cost $280 million but that was in 1995, even with inflation and increased demand for raw construction materials I would think $600 million now a days in Cleveland 15 years later would get us more... but who knows.

If that is really a concern, Gilbert could have a model of the full-blown $600m casino very visible within the temporary one.

 

Anyone know how much was spent for construction of the MGM in Detroit?

 

I found multiple sources ( http://www.optionsoutlet.org/stockcharts/BREAKOUT/MGM_breakout_stock_chart.php ) that peg MGM Detroit at $765 million. (hotel included)

Mohegan sun cost $280 million but that was in 1995, even with inflation and increased demand for raw construction materials I would think $600 million now a days in Cleveland 15 years later would get us more... but who knows.

 

Mohegan Sun was also built out in the middle of nowhere and probably lacked some of the logistical and design challenges of building within a confined urban space.  For $280 million they put up a heck of casino, or have added on extensively since the initial construction.  They even have the large-scale basketball arena there.

If that is really a concern, Gilbert could have a model of the full-blown $600m casino very visible within the temporary one.

 

Anyone know how much was spent for construction of the MGM in Detroit?

 

 

MGM also went the temporary route until the lavish $800M hotel & casino was built... Difference is, though, MGM I believe opened temporarily in an old factory buildin g near downtown Detroit... I'm not sure I like the idea of taking a prime building like Higbee's for temporary use when we know it will be vacated and, the period Gilbert is in there will thwart any other uses (as well as potential for future uses) of the building.

 

MGM Casino & Hotel in Detroit cost around $900 million.  Not sure if that included the purchase price of the land or gambling machines as well.

 

How to we know that a temporary casino will thwart any uses or future uses at Higbees?

I would suspect that, if anything, the exact opposite would occur.

I could see it stimulate uses if they planning showed future uses being compatible to those of a casino.  I seriously doubt Gilbert would try and retrofit any hotel rooms into Higbees, esp given the number of hotel rooms both with the Tower City complex as well as nearby... But once the casino clears out, what could you turn over the casino floors over to?

Are you saying that Higbees would have to be irrevocably changed to accommodate a casino?  Changed in a way that makes it less accommodating to future uses?  How do you know this?

But once the casino clears out, what could you turn over the casino floors over to?

 

To me, for my new 200,000-square-foot condo.  :-D

 

 

The same things you can turn the sales floor of a department store over to?

Are you saying that Higbees would have to be irrevocably changed to accommodate a casino?  Changed in a way that makes it less accommodating to future uses?  How do you know this?

 

I didn't mention irrevocably changing anything.  Factories in the 50's are often luxury loft apartments, today.  The issue is costs involved to retrofit a building tied into such aspects as its juxtaposition with other buildings and facilities nearby.  It's also a very large building that is decidedly transit oriented with limited on-site parking options in a city that has a car-first mentality which, no doubt, is a factor when it comes to financing considerations... Higbee's was built as a high-end dept. store and had only been utilized as such until it went dark a decade ago.  If Gilbert can plan to move something else in after his new casino is built and the temporary one moves, great.  But if he doesn't, I'd like to know what kind of use would be compatible with a casino that would make conversion expenses for such a prominent building that, to date, no one has found substantial uses for to date?

I guess I still don't understand the basis for your objection to Higbee's being used as a temporary casino.  Are you saying that if Gilbert can't find a use for Higbee's after the temp casino leaves, then he shouldn't use if for one in the first place?

 

At any rate, my understanding was that Higbee's has already been substantially converted to offices, and that Key's checking operations were moving, or moved there.

I agree.  The "dillema" that clvlndr is refering to is nothing different than what the current situation is....  So if Gilbert used it temporarily, wouldnt it just revert back to the current state of trying to find a use??  And if things go well, hopefully, adding the promise of greater demand.

Having been in the temporary Greektown casino in Detroit, there's not that much involved beyond cosmetic stuff and rolling in a few dozen slot machines, tables, etc.

I guess I still don't understand the basis for your objection to Higbee's being used as a temporary casino. Are you saying that if Gilbert can't find a use for Higbee's after the temp casino leaves, then he shouldn't use if for one in the first place?

 

At any rate, my understanding was that Higbee's has already been substantially converted to offices, and that Key's checking operations were moving, or moved there.

 

Key's operations departments moved to the Parma area, but a lot of the IT that was in the May Co. building will be moving to floors 6, 8, and 9 of Higbee's in a month or two. 

Thanks, Niko!  Does anyone know how much of Higbee's is still vacant?

^^ No question, Higbee's future appears to be as a mainly office building.  Of course, I'd never gripe about more hotel rooms.

I was thinking a giant strip club ala mons venus in tampa...  it could happen!

Thanks, Niko! Does anyone know how much of Higbee's is still vacant?

 

As far as I can tell, with Key taking three floors, the Browns taking three floors, the Silver Grille on 10, Positively Cleveland on part of 1, some tech firms on 7, say 1.5 or two floors.

Whatever they do in there we should consider ourselves lucky.  There are other cities with Indian gaming who get a pole barn and a gravel lot until the permanent structure is built.

You would think with all those new tenants in the building FCE would give some serious thought to finding somebody to re-open the Silver Grille, at least for breakfast and lunch.  If they wanted to keep the same art deco motif (which would be ideal), there would not be that much in the way of a build out.  Probably the largest cost would be updating and re fitting the kitchen.

Good ole FCE always making things interesting, but still progress nonetheless--and talk of a the temporary casino that Mayor Jackson is pushing.

 

Could a Cleveland casino open next year? Don't bet on it

By Brent Larkin

February 14, 2010, 5:10AM

 

Only after voters approved the gaming issue did Gilbert's team engage in serious discussions over the price of the land and other issues.

 

And those talks soon turned very ugly. This is a tricky site, with parking and infrastructure issues. Forest City officials viewed Gilbert & Co. as wanting a handout. Gilbert's advisers accused Forest City of price gouging.

 

Some even wanted Gilbert to ask voters for permission to build the casino elsewhere downtown.

 

But after weeks of acrimony and angry accusations, the two sides are close to a deal. Still to be selected are a design team and a casino operator, and casino enabling legislation still needs to come from the state legislature.

 

 

MORE AT http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/02/could_a_cleveland_casino_open.html

Why was there not a deal worked out for a specific site BEFORE putting a specific site on the ballot? Seems foolish to me.

Maybe Gilbert and co. didn't honestly expect in their wildest dreams to have gotten away with this legislated monopoly that easily... I voted for it though.  haha

Lack of due diligence?

I heard a while ago that Gilbert actually had an option to buy the land behind Tower City, which is owned by Forest City.  Seems as if there's something not being said about what is really going on...

Dan Gilbert talks about Cleveland casino plans

By Evelyn Theiss, The Plain Dealer

February 18, 2010, 3:11PM

 

Casino developer and Cavs' majority owner Dan Gilbert says he expects to select a casino operator in the next 30 to 60 days.

 

"Since November, we've been to Las Vegas, Missouri, Louisiana, and Florida, looking at casinos, at operations," he said, speaking to a record crowd of 700 at the Corporate Club luncheon at Executive Caterers at Landerhaven. "We're looking at two or three finalists."

 

Gilbert also said that he won't make a decision on opening a temporary casino in Cleveland until he's settled on the casino operator, since whoever that is will have input on the decision.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/02/dan_gilbert_talks_about_clevel.html

From the above pd article Gilbert says:  "IF the site behind Tower City is chosen". Wait, wut?

What you mean IF white man. Are we in for another drama filled project?

And I thought the site was written into the Ohio Constitution and could only be undone by another constitutional amendment? If these power-brokers feel the Ohio Constitution has become so fluid a document that they can just alter at their whim, then I agree with some recent arguments that we should tighten up the conditions for be able to get it amended. If this is the case, why write the site into constitutional amendments at all? Why not just write them on a sidewalk with some chalk?

Because remember, the site directly behind tower city was just one of a handful of potential sites written in the constitution to choose from in cleveland, though all potential sites are in close proximity.  the one directly behind tc is the preferred site, and the one they appear to be focussing on.

From what I remember about the language was that there were multiple sites in Cleveland had could be chosen.  They were listed separately, ie the Higgbee Building or between Huron and Canal.  I think the Scranton Peninsula was included.  Basically it is all the same area, just not all the same site.

From the text of Issue 3:

 

Cleveland (The casino in Cleveland, Ohio will be located on one or more of the following properties: (a) the property situated south of Public Square, east of Superior Avenue, west of Ontario Street and north of W. Prospect Avenue; (b) the property situated south of W. Prospect Avenue, east of West 6th Street, north of W. Huron Road and west of Ontario Str«1; (e) approximately 7.91 acres of property located south of W. Huron Road, west of Ontario Street, nonh of Canal Road and lying east of the prolongation of the centerline of the Bridge of West 6th Street; (d) approximately 11.22 acres of property and water lying east of the prolongation of the centerline of the Bridge of West 3rd Street, south of Canal Road, northwest of W. Eagle Road and bounded by, and including a portion of, the Cuyahoga River to the soulh and the southwest; (e) all air rights above the approximately 0.87 acre parcel of property situated along and south of Ontario Street in close prOXimity to the intersection of W. Huron Road and Ontario SlIeet; (0 approximately 1.83 acres of property located at the southeast comer of the intersection of W. 3rd Street and W. Eagle Avenue and the northeast comer of the intersection of W. 3rd Street and Carnegie Avenue and west of the former Baltimore and Ohio railroad right of way; Cg) approximately 1.55 acres of property located at the southeast corner of the intersection of W. 3rd Street and Camegie Avenue and west of the former Baltimore and Ohio railroad right of way; (h) floors one through four, mezzanine, basement and sub-basement of that certain property located at 2100 Public Square, Cleveland, Ohio, commonly known as the Higbee Building, which property is located to the south of Public Square, north of West Prospect Avenue and southwest of Ontario' Street; and (i) approximately 61 acres of properties, commonly known as the Scranton Peninsula, bounded by tbe Cuyahoga River to the north and the west and situated west of Scranlon Road and northwest and partially southeast of the overpass of the Lorain Carnegie Bridge);

 

^Is this all FCE owned land?  Is so, then Gilbert has absolutely no bargaining power.

^I would assume so, seeing from a previous story that Gilbert and FCE were having issues (like that couldn't have been forseen, though Gilbert pushed for their site during the convention center fiasco).  Nevertheless, we know that the casino will go behind Tower City, so FCE will benefit by the sale of the land along with the increase in foot traffic to Tower City.

The casino could technically be built on any of these areas in blue...

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44113&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&z=15

 

^All of those properties with the exception of F are owned by FCE if I am not mistaken.  Site F might be as well...

 

The land highlighted looks like, Tower City Complex, land behind said complex, Tower City Amphitheatre, Scranton Peninsula and a few small parcels.

You would think with all those new tenants in the building FCE would give some serious thought to finding somebody to re-open the Silver Grille, at least for breakfast and lunch. If they wanted to keep the same art deco motif (which would be ideal), there would not be that much in the way of a build out. Probably the largest cost would be updating and re fitting the kitchen.

 

The Silver Grille is still open for special events, I believe it's rented out by the Ritz.  When I last went over there for a tour, the sales woman included it as part of the "available space" tour.  Having not grown up in Cleveland, I didn't know anything about it and thought it was a really cool space.

 

Yep, here you go: http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/Properties/Cleveland/Meetings/RoomDetails/10thFlooroftheadjacentHigbeeBuildingatTowerCityCenter/TheSilverGrille.htm

^All of those properties with the exception of F are owned by FCE if I am not mistaken. Site F might be as well...

 

The land highlighted looks like, Tower City Complex, land behind said complex, Tower City Amphitheatre, Scranton Peninsula and a few small parcels.

 

It's just dumbfounding that Gilbert didn't have an agreement in place or have FCE involved somehow in ownership prior to passage, and that we're having negotiations now.  I was convinced last year that FCE was in the background letting Gilbert be the front man.

^If that is truly the case, Gilbert is going to be paying quite a hefty sum for the land to develop the casino.  Any of those parcels may well have gone upwards of 50% in value, especially by being written into the Ohio Constitution for a casino.

If you are interested, the Cleveland Coalition, a new non-partisan, issue-based organization is having an event to discuss how the new casino will fit into Cleveland's existing urban fabric this Friday from 5:00-7:30pm at the City Club.  The flier giving more details about the program is attached.  If you plan to attend, please RSVP @ [email protected]

Cleveland casino a $600 million investment, expert questions sites

 

Cleveland's casino will be a $600 million investment.

That's what casino developer Dan Gilbert's representative told the crowd of more than 100 at a public dialogue on casino design, held at Cleveland's City Club Friday evening.

Len Komoroski, representing Gilbert's Rock Ventures LLC, said that Gilbert and his partners want to make sure "this is a first class destination and entity. We are committed to investing more than $600 million here in the Cleveland casino project."

 

Komoroski was one of four panelists at the discussion organized by a group of young professionals calling itself the Cleveland Coalition.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/03/cleveland_casino_a_600_million.html

To me, it's no-brainer, the only logical site is the East Bank behind Tower City.  I sure hope we don't muddy this worthwhile plan up with our usual protracted site-selection nonsense as we have with the proposed County Admin office and the new MMPI Convention Center -- to name only a few... I think Dan Gilbert's approach of not puting hotel rooms immediately on-site makes sense.  So if you come to Cleveland and want to gamble, you at least have to leave your hotel area and travel (hopefully mainly on foot) to get to the slots & tables.  And along the way, you can enhance downtown with your presence and $$$.

This is one of those times where the media can be a real nuisance during the course of negotiations.  But I am not going to spare Gilbert for at least part of the blame.  The options purchased on the land should have been more specific so as not to allow so much rangling over the purchase price.  With the ordeal FCE went through in Brooklyn over the last several years, this should have been foreseen.  I just hope the media is blowing it out of proportion.

 

Mark my words, when it's all said and done, the Casino will be built right where it should be (the 'signage' should dramatically improve -  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cleveland+ohio&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=22.848409,35.947266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&ll=41.496621,-81.690173&spn=0,359.980752&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.496547,-81.690296&panoid=5H8f4b7b5__pu9lsiR5SPA&cbp=12,202.42,,0,5 

 

Mark my words, when it's all said and done, the Casino will be built right where it should be (the 'signage' should dramatically improve - 

 

 

I dunno... The signage looks pretty "World Class" to me!! 

 

I dunno... The signage looks pretty "World Class" to me!!

 

I was just admiring the "early bird parking" sitting at the light yesterday.  that and the fence it's on create quite an entrance to the city.

Rolling the dice: Cleveland's casino shows its hand

 

CLEVELAND -- It may seem like an early 2013 opening for a downtown Cleveland casino is far away but an operator for the casino is expected to be named soon, according to a spokesperson for Dan Gilbert's Rock Venture LLC.

 

"We've already interviewed about 20 operators and narrowed it down to three or four, and we expect to make a decision in 30 or 60 days," Rock spokeswoman Jennifer Kulczyki tells wkyc.com.  Gilbert is majority owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers and chairman and founder of Quicken Loans.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/politics_govt/politics_article.aspx?storyid=133535&catid=130

its nice to finally see a little something about this.

Cleveland Coalition invites the public to brainstorm design of the Rock Ventures casino in Cleveland on Friday

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

April 06, 2010, 5:54PM

 

Cavs owner and casino developer Dan Gilbert hasn't yet announced the specific site or the design architect for the casino he'd like to build in downtown Cleveland.

 

But that isn't stopping the Cleveland Coalition, a group of young professionals with an intense interest in the city's future, from offering Gilbert some very specific free advice.

 

On Friday, the coalition will sponsor "Crooked River Gaming/2," a public brainstorming session at the Maxine Goodman Levin College of Urban Affairs, 1717 Euclid Ave. The "charrette," as such meetings are called in architectural circles, will focus on everything from what the casino might look like to how it could affect future economic development.

 

More at:

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/04/cleveland_coalition_invites_th.html

those are some excellent excellent ideas. the one spanning the cuyahoga is absolutely A+ if you ask me. I think this, next to MOCA, is going to be a very gorgeous new building downtown. I hope someone from UO attends the charette! and I can't wait to see what they come up with.