$700 million?  I thought it was going to be a $600 million project.... not that I am complaining.

 

I noticed that as well. The article also states that the Cleveland casino will be the last, but the best...Not sure how to take that

is $100 million a reasonable number for "phase 1'?  maybe its that plus 600 for phase 2?

so, the casino is going in that triangular gap by the landmark building?

 

well technically "near tower city, along huron road" could either be the open space next to the landmark building, or the parking lot area by the river... both of which would be allowed under the ammendment, so it's not very clear yet. I'm guessing they are discussing both properties.

well technically "near tower city, along huron road" could either be the open space next to the landmark building, or the parking lot area by the river...

 

The footprint of that space under the LeBron banner is pretty small compared to the parking lot area by the river.  I can't see them fitting much it there.  Plus, it would block off a bunch of windows...

 

The two pieces being connected by tunnels sounds like the old Medical Mart plan - put the Med Mart in the Higbee's building and the convention center at the corner of Ontario and Huron.  That plan also called for gutting Tower City Cinemas...

aren't they saying it will be connected to Higbees, or did I read it wrong?  If they go with that area, it will have better, ahem, connectivity to E 4th

Plus, it would block off a bunch of windows...

 

 

You do know that those windows are intended to be blocked off? It's why that side is faced with brick -- because another building was originally proposed to go there. But the Great Depression halted much of the Terminal Group development for 20 years, with a building or two being added every decade since the mid-50s.

This casino site plan talk is getting very interesting.

Cleveland casino design would feature public plazas, lots of glass

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

May 27, 2010, 9:38PM

 

The new Cleveland casino will be a sleek, contemporary building with large areas of glass at two main entrances along Huron Road and a row of restaurants and shops between them, facing the street and sidewalk.

The $600 million facility will also include large, street-level plazas flanking the entries off Huron, where the public will be able to stroll and enjoy gardens, fountains and views of the Cuyahoga River, even if they never gamble.

Nate Forbes, a development partner of Cavs owner and casino developer Dan Gilbert, described new details of the evolving casino design for the first time in a phone interview Thursday.

His descriptions -- which were not accompanied by the release of any images -- underscored Gilbert's stated intention to avoid building a windowless, inwardly oriented casino that would vacuum customers inside and suck life out of the city.

Instead, Forbes said, the goal of Rock Ventures LLC, one of Gilbert's companies, is to create a facility connected to the city around it, which supports other businesses and encourages additional private investment.

 

Full Story: http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/05/cleveland_casino_design_would.html

Welcome nehpets19!

Thank you. I've been reading the posts for 2 years now but never really posted anything until tonight. :-) I'm rooting for Cleveland and I see so many possibilities.

Favorite quotes from the article:

 

"The $600 million facility will also include large, street-level plazas flanking the entries off Huron, where the public will be able to stroll and enjoy gardens, fountains and views of the Cuyahoga River, even if they never gamble."

 

"The building would rise roughly 60 to 65 feet from the sidewalk along Huron Road, framing a street that now feels one-sided because no development exists on its west side."

 

"The company also wants to make the intersection -- one of the least friendly to pedestrians in the city -- more hospitable to people on foot"

 

Throughout this project, Gilbert has pushed integration with downtown and everything I've read makes me believe it.  I think this will be an impressive addition to the city.

There's not even any sidewalk on the west side of Huron there.  I'm glad they're addressing pedestrian issues.

Talk is cheap, but Gilbert's crew is certainly saying all the right things with regard to the casino.  Huron could end up being a very interesting street.  Too bad Scranton Peninsula isn't so much to look at.

 

And wow, I knew Forest City had a lot of parking spaces down there, but 7,000?! 

Hopefully one of the new businesses along Huron would include a new movie theater with an entrance from the street that could replace Tower City Cinemas with a fitting home for the Film Festival while at the same time maintaining the indoor connections that allow the event to be successful in early March regardless of weather . . .

Loving a lot of what I read.  One question (well one basic question that develops into many)= how is the Higbee's connection feasibly going to be connected to the main Huron location?  Skywalk down West 2nd?  Underground?  Wrapped around Landmark Building on Ontario?

 

I would assume underground, but if that access is not there already I am confused as to how they will create it.

Loving a lot of what I read.  One question (well one basic question that develops into many)= how is the Higbee's connection feasibly going to be connected to the main Huron location?  Skywalk down West 2nd?  Underground?  Wrapped around Landmark Building on Ontario?

 

I would assume underground, but if that access is not there already I am confused as to how they will create it.

 

Tower City Connects to all the surrounding building underground so I assume they make some adjustments underground where Tower City and the Landmark office tower arcade will connect to the new portion of the casino.

I'm not a fan of having the casino split between Huron and the Higbee Building.

I'm not a fan of having the casino split between Huron and the Higbee Building.

 

Since we haven't seen one design/construction plan, can I ask why?

I'm not a fan of having the casino split between Huron and the Higbee Building.

 

Since we haven't seen one design/construction plan, can I ask why?

 

I think it is stupid to split the casino into two buildings that will be connected with tunnels. We don't need anymore under/aboveground tunnels that keep people off the streets.

I'm not a fan of having the casino split between Huron and the Higbee Building.

 

Since we haven't seen one design/construction plan, can I ask why?

 

I think it is stupid to split the casino into two buildings that will be connected with tunnels. We don't need anymore under/aboveground tunnels that keep people off the streets.

 

Isn't it obvious why it has to be done this way?

 

I do agree that we dont need anymore underground tunnels, however, this project as described up until now will be integrated into the urban fabric of the city and address street level issues.  I'm not an architect or engineer, but I highly doubt they will build a "new" tunnel, as all Tower City buildings are already connected.  As I stated earlier, I get the impression they will connect to the current grid.

 

 

I have reservations about the tunnel too, but I'm going to wait and see and hope.

Steven Litt had a good article about the problem that tunnels could bring when they were looking at putting the medical mart over there:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2008/08/the_proposal_to_locate_a.html

 

The difference with the casino is that it sounds like the two pieces are both going to be the casino.  So the alternative would just be one big casino building.  It's not like the tunnel in this example would be sucking away street life, ya know?  Now if they were two different casinos, that would be another story...

I don't begrudge people their tunnels.  It's cold here.  Street life arises from having things on the street that interest people.  Downtown's been steadily moving in that direction, so a casino tunnel won't hurt anything.

well, The Cleveland one was always supposed to be the best one.

Wouldn't there have to be a tunnel connecting them because they are only aloud to build one casino and if they were seperated they would technically be seperate casinos which would be against the law so no matter what they have to be connected in someway to say that it's one casino

^ It seems this is likely to be so, but still not set in stone because the actual legislation hasn't been passed.  In fact this entire idea might not work out legally.

 

From cleveland.com

 

State Rep. Sandra Williams, a Cleveland Democrat, amended the House's bill to state that a casino can be opened in phases "in one or more locations, buildings or rooms that are connected by walkways or by non-gaming amenities that together constitute a single casino facility."

 

The Senate, however, declined to include such a provision, placing Gilbert's plans in jeopardy for now.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_casino_to_open_in_tw.html

I don't begrudge people their tunnels. It's cold here. Street life arises from having things on the street that interest people. Downtown's been steadily moving in that direction, so a casino tunnel won't hurt anything.

 

327, I agree with you 100%, although some might argue, chicken and eggly, that the "things on the street that interest people", need the people flux before being created.  At any rate, I was in downtown Montreal in April, and the maze of off street passageways was amazing and full of people and businesses, yet I saw street life. 

 

I am interested in their proposal for stores and restaurants lining Huron Rd.  That sounds exciting.  There was something like that outside the Seminole Hard Rock Casino near Ft Lauderdale, and it was hopping.

Nice work... chicken and egg now has an adverb form!   

I think the tunnel is the justification to build the temporary casino in the Higbee's building.  Once the new casino is built, there won't be gambling in both facilities.  Higbees will need to become something else.

So if there won't be gambling in both buildings, why do you need a tunnel to connect them?

So if there won't be gambling in both buildings, why do you need a tunnel to connect them?

 

who knows.  Which is why I made the "we havent seen a plan" earlier.  I think some people are making this out to be a bigger issue than it is. 

 

As the Mayor would say.  Let's take a wait and see approach instead of jumping to conclusion.

I think the tunnel is the justification to build the temporary casino in the Higbee's building. Once the new casino is built, there won't be gambling in both facilities. Higbees will need to become something else.

 

I'm not so sure about that.  The article doesn't really say if both phases will be open at the same time or not.  Also, the language of the legislation sounds to me like Tower City would qualify as the connection, if both casinos connect to it.  It should qualify as a "non gaming amenity".  I can't think of any other reasonable way to connect those two sites.

Where did this deadline come from??  This is today...?

 

Squabbling lawmakers put Cleveland 'early casino' at risk

Tom Beres    Updated: 6/3/2010 6:23:23 PM  Posted: 6/3/2010 6:05:06 PM

 

 

CLEVELAND -- Thursday is the deadline. The clock is ticking. And Cleveland's plans for a starter casino are in jeopardy.

 

When Ohio voters approved a constitutional amendment plan to put casinos in four Ohio cities, the measure included a June 3 deadline for lawmakers to create a governing body for casinos and some basic regulations.

 

Mayor Frank Jackson is upset that lawmakers are putting politics and personal issues in the way of Cleveland's and other cities casino plans.

 

An early casino in the former Higbee building could create jobs and start revenue flowing to the city before Dan Gilbert's main casino opens in 2013.

 

Legislative leaders are trying to resolve the issues. The House may stay in session Thursday night, trying to meet the deadline

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=137326&catid=3

 

 

More:

 

Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson pushes state legislature to get a casino bill done as deadline arrives

By Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer

June 03, 2010, 4:22PM

 

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson on Thursday called out the state legislature for potentially delaying a crucial vote on a casino enabling language bill that lawmakers are still squabbling about.

 

Despite knowing since November when voters approved Issue 3 -- the constitutional amendment allowing four casinos to sprout up in Ohio -- that they would have to pass the enabling language, lawmakers are still at the Statehouse addressing the issue.

 

And the clock is ticking.

 

Their deadline to get a bill done and shipped over to the governor for his signature to become law, according to the constitution, is midnight. They are now within hours of that deadline.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/post_13.html

 

Scroll back through this thread. As the Prego commercials said, "It's in there."

Scroll back through this thread. As the Prego commercials said, "It's in there."

 

I need to read more...thanks.  I just assumed there would be more chatter yesterday and today if this were the real deadline.

 

Midnight tonight...huh......

what happens if they don't meet the deadline?  nothing?  amendment repealed?

what happens if they don't meet the deadline?  nothing?  amendment repealed?

 

Legislators unlikely to pass casino rules before midnight deadline

Thursday, June 3, 2010  11:16 PM

By James Nash

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

...The midnight deadline was part of the constitutional amendment that 53 percent of Ohio voters approved last November to bring casinos to Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo. But the amendment did not say what would happen if lawmakers did not act within six months as required.

 

The casino developers, Penn National Gaming Inc. and Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert, could sue, but a lawsuit could complicate things rather than hasten a resolution. A spokesman for the casino operators, Bob Tenenbaum, declined to comment on their possible course of action.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/06/03/legislators-unlikely-to-pass-casino-rules-before-midnight-deadline.html?sid=101

So... nothing happens?

They missed the deadline but got the vote in by 3am.  To summarize:

 

- There's no wording in the legislation requiring minority hiring requirements.  That was part of the hold up.  Some people were trying to get that wording in.

 

- It allows for Gilbert to do his "phased in" development.

 

- The "Phase 1" section of the casino should open in the Higbee's building "by next summer"

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/state_lawmakers_miss_midnight.html

Lower Euclid Ave will be bumping next summer....

 

Back to the discussion to where Positively Cleveland is going to go..

Lower Euclid Ave will be bumping next summer....

 

Back to the discussion to where Positively Cleveland is going to go..

 

This is certainly true.  Back in the '70's a report argued that "hub" of downtown would be Superior and 9th - shifting away from Public Square.  This may or may not have ever happened but I think its safe to say that downtown hub is definitely re-orienting back to the Square area.  the Warehouse District, E 4th, Med Mart, Casino and Sports venues are all within a short walk of the Square.

Lower Euclid Ave will be bumping next summer....

 

Back to the discussion to where Positively Cleveland is going to go..

 

Bang and Clatter; or the dilapidated storefront next door.  I'm sure that they want something they can just move right into though so maybe that wont work so well, but B&C would still be close to their current location and near e4th.  Also the Halle building by Playhouse could be good too.

 

I was going to say further up on Euclid, across from Statler, but I think that would be too far removed from the entertainment core areas where visitors are likely to congregate and use them.  GCP could move into one of those storefronts though.

There is a thread for discussing PC and GCP's office relocation... Not here please :)

 

and FYI, the GCP is an office full of suits, they don't need storefront space.

Dan Gilbert's Rock Gaming, Harrah's Entertainment agree to develop Cleveland, Cincinnati casinos

By MARK DODOSH

12:23 pm, August 12, 2010

 

Rock Gaming LLC, a company headed by Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert, has selected Harrah's Entertainment Inc. as its partner in a joint venture that would develop and operate planned downtown casinos in Cleveland and Cincinnati. And the two revealed that a temporary casino in Cleveland could be in place by as early as next year in the former Higbee Building.

 

The two companies said proposed terms of their non-binding joint venture agreement “contemplate Harrah's making a significant minority investment in the projects and serving as the day-to-day casino manager in both cities.”

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100812/FREE/100819934

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And from the PD...I find the last 3 paragraphs most interesting--competetion is a good thing:

 

 

 

Gilbert's announcement comes just an hour after Penn National Gaming announced that this morning it had formally broken ground on a $250 million casino in Toledo. Penn is also building a casino in Columbus.

 

Gilbert and Penn teamed up last year on Issue 3, the constitutional amendment that voters approved which formally allows gambling in Ohio but only at the four specific locations now controlled by Gilbert and Penn.

 

In the gaming world, Harrah's and Penn are competitors. And like Harrah's, Penn could soon own two Ohio horse racing tracks outfitted with slot machine gambling.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/gilbert_reaches_preliminary_de.html

 

 

 

 

 

So Rock Gaming will have majority ownership and Harrah's is a minority owner.  Harrah's also owns Thistledown in North Randall, which I hope doesn't get slots as I think that will pull some people away from downtown.

 

Some good quotes from http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/gilbert_reaches_preliminary_de.html:

 

---

"After a thorough evaluation, our team is certain that Harrah's top-notch and innovative management team is completely aligned with our unwavering commitment to create and deliver projects that embrace and interact with the downtowns they serve," Gilbert said in a statement. "Our partnership will positively impact surrounding businesses while stimulating new growth in the urban cores of Cleveland and Cincinnati."

 

Gary Loveman, Chairman, CEO and President of Harrah's Entertainment added, "Harrah's shares a common vision with Rock Gaming to develop and manage first-class urban-based casinos that will be a catalyst for economic expansion and job creation in both markets."

---

 

At least they're SAYING the right things.  And the Cincinnati designs seems to reflect that.  Can't wait for Cleveland designs to start popping up.

 

If they do a Phase 1 in the Higbee's building, the article says that would open in 2011.  Final casino won't open until mid-2013.

From the WSJ:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704407804575425521289269004.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

I didn't realize how in debt Harrah is...

"And from the PD...I find the last 3 paragraphs most interesting--competetion is a good thing:"

 

Im not so sure in this case (but I guess in the sense that you are talking)...

Just not in the same region, as had been experienced in Pennsylvania.

 

Harrah's also owns Thistledown in North Randall, which I hope doesn't get slots as I think that will pull some people away from downtown.

 

Without a doubt.  Pittsburgh found this out the hard way.  I certainly kept people from going downtown, and the casino had really suffered.... And has been operation at  Severe undercapacity, or well below the inflated expectations.

"And from the PD...I find the last 3 paragraphs most interesting--competetion is a good thing:"

 

Im not so sure in this case (but I guess in the sense that you are talking)...

Just not in the same region, as had been experienced in Pennsylvania.

 

Harrah's also owns Thistledown in North Randall, which I hope doesn't get slots as I think that will pull some people away from downtown.

 

Without a doubt. Pittsburgh found this out the hard way. I certainly kept people from going downtown, and the casino had really suffered.... And has been operation at Severe undercapacity, or well below the inflated expectations.

 

By all accounts I've heard that the Pittsburgh casino is awful. Dirty, overpriced, and located in a desolate part of the city that is cut off from the rest of downtown by a highway. It's as if we decided to build the Cleveland casino on the lakefront at the mouth of the river, but worse.

 

I think Forest City has plans to develop that whole North Shore area in Pittsburgh but they might be rethinking this due to the poor performance of the casino, I don't know.

 

At any rate, our casino plan seems to be much better thought out. I only hope they offer a poker room and table games right off the bat--this, I think, is one of the mistakes the the Pittsburgh casinos made. A casino isn't a casino without baccarat!

By all accounts I've heard that the Pittsburgh casino is awful. Dirty, overpriced, and located in a desolate part of the city that is cut off from the rest of downtown by a highway. It's as if we decided to build the Cleveland casino on the lakefront at the mouth of the river, but worse.

 

I think Forest City has plans to develop that whole North Shore area in Pittsburgh but they might be rethinking this due to the poor performance of the casino, I don't know.

 

At any rate, our casino plan seems to be much better thought out. I only hope they offer a poker room and table games right off the bat--this, I think, is one of the mistakes the the Pittsburgh casinos made. A casino isn't a casino without baccarat!

 

I couldn't agree more!