I thought that the state constitution required for there to be a casino built on the site at huron. Technically they could combine the casino at huron with the casino in the higbee building and call it one facility, but I didn't think they would be allowed to not build the casino at huron entirely.

Is the disassembling of the Tower City Amphitheater going to be permanent??  I thought that, even when the permanent casino was built behind Tower City, the amphitheater would still be there.

In my mind Gilbert is very quietly working to have the two facilitys permanent. Why would he want the smallest casino in Ohio when this has been his game from the start. More tables, more slots equal more revenue. It seems that they have been working behind the scenes non-stop to make things happen before making announcements. As far as the 'valet parking' proposal I see this as nothing more than them wanting to provide a first class experience. A visitors experience needs to be as seamless as possible from the moment he parks his car to the time he leaves. Word travels fast and if the perception is that going to the Cleveland casino is not a good environment then you have to work twice as hard to get that customer back. The typical Mr and Mrs casino could care less if they gamble in downtown Cleveland or downtown Strongsville. But it is going to be that typical customer that will be needed on a regular basis to make this thing work. Not everyone is an urban fan like those on this forum are. The stretch of road between the Q and Public Square  right now is not the most inviting place to be. That needs to change.

Is the disassembling of the Tower City Amphitheater going to be permanent??  I thought that, even when the permanent casino was built behind Tower City, the amphitheater would still be there.

 

Yes I believe so.  Here is the current Tower City Schedule:  http://www.livenation.com/Time-Warner-Cable-Amphitheater-at-Tower-City-tickets-Cleveland/venue/41561

 

 

Thanks Cleburger.  I thought I saw something about the 2011 Marc's Great American Rib Cook-Off & Music Festival being down there again this year, and that's usually sometime in the early summer, so I figured that it'd still be around.  But looking for that article again, I cant find the page that I had previously looked at.  It'll be a shame to loose the Amphitheater.  But at least there's still the Nautica Pavilion and who knows another one may go up somewhere in the area as development continues.

I understand not wanting to demolish anything for more parking, but isn't this at least a garage, not a surface lot? Doesn't that discourage surface lot proliferation?

 

If they're going to sell a classy experience, there have to be accommodations. They proposed moving the **** river for parking purposes, and this proposal is a surprise? Come on.

 

And if Gilbert wants a two-headed casino, that's fine by me.

^Yes that is exactly what Prospect needs to improve it...a lively parking garage.

Thanks Cleburger.  I thought I saw something about the 2011 Marc's Great American Rib Cook-Off & Music Festival being down there again this year, and that's usually sometime in the early summer, so I figured that it'd still be around.  But looking for that article again, I cant find the page that I had previously looked at.  It'll be a shame to loose the Amphitheater.  But at least there's still the Nautica Pavilion and who knows another one may go up somewhere in the area as development continues.

 

The town was really never big enough for two of the same sized outdoor venues anyway.  I have no problem with Tower City Ampitheater going away.  Just hope it doesn't become a giant surface lot with golf carts to ferry casino patrons in.

Hmm, that's interesting about TowerCityAmphitheater. If you go to the LiveNation website and look under venues, TCA is no longer listed. I hadn't heard anything about it closing. But although I really like the space down there I would love to see something like Blossom by the river. Spend some of that LiveNation money and build something not made of canvas. It could be beautiful down there.

Maybe someone mentioned it; if so, sorry... but it seems like that rectangular surface lot bounded by E. 4th, Prospect and the View night club would be a better site for a mixed-use parking deck surface parking lot.  It's only a block away from the Casino site.  Not only that, such a project could build on the expanding synergy of E. 4th (and it sure would be a nice place to install a supermarket on the Prospect side... Also, this could be a good place to expand a temp controlled skywalk a la Minny's Nicolette Mall... Talk of demolishing the Columbia building for parking is absolutely absurd and irresponsible and needs to be squelched by Jackson, Cimpermann and other city officials IMMEDIATELY.

 

As for the PD piece, I was fearful that, once again, the obvious rail transit hub tie-in would be ignored in the PD's seemingly never ending quest to get Clevlelanders to drive! drive! drive!... Thank goodness that (way down in the article), someone actually had the balls to state the obvious: why can't the rail access actually LIMIT the need for the parking lot hysteria Gilbert's people seem to be stoking... thank you Joe Marinucci, of the Downtown Alliance.

Hmm, that's interesting about TowerCityAmphitheater. If you go to the LiveNation website and look under venues, TCA is no longer listed. I hadn't heard anything about it closing. But although I really like the space down there I would love to see something like Blossom by the river. Spend some of that LiveNation money and build something not made of canvas. It could be beautiful down there.

 

Once again I'm not 100% sure of this, but Live Nation never owned the land.  It was leased and the option to renew was not presented by FCE so that they could turn it over to Rock with the sale of the land. 

Let me augment my comments from yesterday:  demolish the Gateway parking deck on Ontario and replace it with a larger deck that not only expands south to the corner of Huron and Ontario, but extends above and over a vacated High Avenue, too. Convert High Avenue into valet pick-up/drop-off lanes.

 

Then the block that includes the Stanley Block and Columbia Building could be rehabbed with spin-off development. I'd love to see a European-style bed-and-breakfast in the Stanley Block and apartments in the Columbia Building.

Love that idea!

Me too.  That would be perfect.

Let me augment my comments from yesterday:  demolish the Gateway parking deck on Ontario and replace it with a larger deck that not only expands south to the corner of Huron and Ontario, but extends above and over a vacated High Avenue, too. Convert High Avenue into valet pick-up/drop-off lanes.

 

Then the block that includes the Stanley Block and Columbia Building could be rehabbed with spin-off development. I'd love to see a European-style bed-and-breakfast in the Stanley Block and apartments in the Columbia Building.

 

Thats somewhat of what I been saying too, but with more detail. Really the city has so many options its crazy. Unfortunately one of the worst possible options is the one with the most momentum. Didn't Frangos also buy the gateway garage and the empty land next to it?

Hmm, that's interesting about TowerCityAmphitheater. If you go to the LiveNation website and look under venues, TCA is no longer listed. I hadn't heard anything about it closing. But although I really like the space down there I would love to see something like Blossom by the river. Spend some of that LiveNation money and build something not made of canvas. It could be beautiful down there.

 

Once again I'm not 100% sure of this, but Live Nation never owned the land.  It was leased and the option to renew was not presented by FCE so that they could turn it over to Rock with the sale of the land. 

 

Will the Nautica Pavilion now get more concerts?

 

Thats somewhat of what I been saying too, but with more detail. Really the city has so many options its crazy. Unfortunately one of the worst possible options is the one with the most momentum. Didn't Frangos also buy the gateway garage and the empty land next to it?

 

Not sure. But the city could change the momentum by offering High Avenue to the developers in exchange for not demolishing the Stanley Block and Columbia Building.

Hmm, that's interesting about TowerCityAmphitheater. If you go to the LiveNation website and look under venues, TCA is no longer listed. I hadn't heard anything about it closing. But although I really like the space down there I would love to see something like Blossom by the river. Spend some of that LiveNation money and build something not made of canvas. It could be beautiful down there.

 

Once again I'm not 100% sure of this, but Live Nation never owned the land.  It was leased and the option to renew was not presented by FCE so that they could turn it over to Rock with the sale of the land. 

 

Will the Nautica Pavilion now get more concerts?

 

One would assume...but probably depends on the season.

I thought that the state constitution required for there to be a casino built on the site at huron. Technically they could combine the casino at huron with the casino in the higbee building and call it one facility, but I didn't think they would be allowed to not build the casino at huron entirely.

 

Coneybear, what you said!  I second!

This article is about a year old but it talks about the process of having the two casino locations in Cleveland. It is interesting to read it now in light of whats going on.

 

Cleveland casino to open in two phases, in connected buildings

Thursday, May 27, 2010, 1:00 AM    Updated: Monday, February 28, 2011, 2:03 PM

By Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer

 

 

State Rep. Sandra Williams, a Cleveland Democrat, amended the House's bill to state that a casino can be opened in phases "in one or more locations, buildings or rooms that are connected by walkways or by non-gaming amenities that together constitute a single casino facility."

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_casino_to_open_in_tw.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

A poster on another site said DAn Gilbert bought 75% of the Ritz-Carlton in Tower City and it will retain it's name as part of the deal.  They also mentioned they thought he may be considering buying up all of Tower City.  He did not provide a link and I couldn't find anything through Google.

 

He only mentioned the Ritz deal was done and the rest was speculation.

 

Anyone know anything or is this guy blowing smoke up my @?

 

That would be awesome, but idk if its anywhere near being true. Why would he bullshit it though?

Well what I can add to this is this blurb from the PD dated March 11th which says,

 

"Puttin on the Ritz: Before one die is rolled and one card is dealt, Forest City Enterprises' winning streak continues at the Cleveland Horseshoe Casino, which doesn't even exist yet. Word on the street is that casino developers are eyeing the purchase of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, a Forest City property."

 

It's about half way down the page.

>>>>> http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2011/03/ken_lanci_arthur_elk_to_extend.html

Here are the guy's 2 posts...He seems to know too much for it not to be true...

 

"Today, management at the Cleveland Ritz-Carlton was informed the hotel has been sold to Dan Gilbert (not sure if the sale was through his casino investment group or one of his other investment groups - but he will now own 75% majority share of the hotel - and via the purchase agreement will keep the Ritz-Carlton brand name).

 

What's more interesting, it sounds like he's in the process of buying the Renaissance Hotel and attempting to purchase the whole of Tower City.

 

All this makes sense, as The Ritz & Renaissance are connected to Tower City, which will also be connected to the new casino.  Looks like Gilbert is hoping he can revitalize Tower City by linking shopping, dining, hotels & casinos.  I'm sure he's also hoping the medical mart will bring in the much-desired out-of-town traffic.

 

Either way, if it wasn't clear before, the guy is definitely going "all-in" on the revitalization of Cleveland."

 

and in response to someone asking for a link (me)...

 

"It hasn't been announced via the media yet.  Ritz management was notified today - apparently the purchase hasn't been finalized but it's a "done deal".  I imagine the media will report on it shortly (since word is getting around) or once it becomes public knowledge (once the the purchase has been finalized and becomes public record)."

^where are these being posted?

^Agreed - some links to this "other site" would be nice.

Found it through google

 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=4409&t=7404058

The Watercooler is almost as bad as cleveland,bomb...... almost

I always thought that tower city would be revitalized with the addition of the casino. This accusation would put the power and risk into the hands of Gilbert who has all the reason in the world to lure high end shopping into the mall. That would put us above places like Pittsburgh, Detroit and St. Louis who have casinos without the "Vegas" feel of being able to splurge on a few nice items and pamper yourself.

 

I wonder if this would be a positive or a negative in regards to filling in empty office space in the terminal tower? Nice amenities in your office building but than again a pretty big distraction as well. I could see a lot of extended lunches at the craps table. LOL

Found it through google

 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=4409&t=7404058

 

Sorry about that, I typically go there for my Browns fix but was pleasantly surprised by that post.  I'm sure we'll see soon enough the details of this deal.

Would explain Gilbert's eagerness to lock down the property out back for $85 million.  He had eyes on the entire complex?

 

I also heard through the grapevine that the former site of Tower City Amphitheatre is going to be parking.

 

I also heard through the grapevine that the former site of Tower City Amphitheatre is going to be parking.

 

Yeah, that's about what I'd expect for their "fantastic" plan to embrace the river front.

Bam.

 

Dan Gilbert in talks with Forest City Enterprises to acquire Ritz-Carlton in Cleveland

By STAN BULLARD

1:44 pm, April 7, 2011

 

Cleveland Cavaliers owner and casino developer Dan Gilbert is in talks with Forest City Enterprises Inc. about acquiring the Ritz-Carlton Hotel at Tower City Center.

 

Kelsey Williams, Ritz-Carlton public relations coordinator in Cleveland, said executives at the hotel have said talks are under way but no deal has been reached. The 205-room Ritz-Carlton has a management contract for the property with Forest City, which owns the combination hotel and office tower as part of its Tower City Center complex.

 

Nothing is signed yet, but if Mr. Gilbert acquires the property, the Ritz-Carlton is looking forward to working with him,” Ms. Williams said.

 

 

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110407/FREE/110409885

 

BTW, judging by what Gilbert paid for the triangle piece of land, I'm guessing Forest City's opening bid is north of $800 Million Dollars!

 

 

Nice find. Hopefully this goes through.

BTW, judging by what Gilbert paid for the triangle piece of land, I'm guessing Forest City's opening bid is north of $800 Million Dollars!

 

If FC ends up making bank on these sales perhaps they could look at investing across the street on their damned parking lot! :whip:

Cool. Actually, let's keep the conversation to the the parking structures and what can be done to reduce the need for so much parking, rather than debate whether transit has merit or not. Accessibility to the casino is an on-topic conversation, however. But spending a lot of time debating the merits of each access option is starting to get off track.

I'd be for a parking garage for the casino without question but it CAN'T be on the river. IE: where the tower city amphitheater is now. That space would be better served as the site for a river side club or upscale casino restaurant. I'd say that it would be a nice spot for a loading area for a river/lake boat tour but I doubt they'd want to give that much incentive to leave the casino for that long.

If Gilbert buys all of Tower City, I can't imagine that world class upscale retail would again give the mall a shot, as I think someone noted,  but what about a world class outlet mall? That could be a big draw, casino or otherwise. The casino could help drive it.

WOAH

 

Rock Ohio Caesars secures option to buy the Ritz-Carlton Cleveland from Forest City Enterprises

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The developers of a downtown casino have an option to buy the Ritz-Carlton - a prospect that would give Dan Gilbert and his partners control of a 206-room hotel just a short walk from their gaming hall.

 

A spokeswoman confirmed Thursday that Rock Ohio Caesars has obtained the right to purchase the Ritz from Forest City Enterprises Inc.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/04/rock_ohio_caesars_secures_opti.html

 

Gilbert secured an option to buy the Ritz and this thread and the talk on this thread is about transportation patterns?! :-o

 

 

Gilbert secured an option to buy the Ritz and this thread and the talk on this thread is about transportation patterns?! :-o

 

 

 

You know I'm a transportation guy, and especially a rail guy, but I'm also surprised that the conversation here has ignored this significant news.

I think this is great for the Avenue at TC.  With it being the natural concourse between the casino and Gilbert's 4 diamond hotel, too many people with deep pockets are going to have an interest in making it as attractive as possible. 

Sorry to veer back to the transportation topic, but I heard a rumor that the site of the former Tower City Amhpitheater is destined to be a surface lot.  It is replacing parking being taken by the innerbelt bridge project.

I've created a place to discuss access to the casino....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25708.0.html

And there's also a place to discuss the potential effects of Kasich's recent moves:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25720.msg553466/boardseen.html#new

 

This thread is being locked to give people time to chill out, and will be unlocked when construction news comes out.

 

First and foremost, if a post is moved to a more pertinent thread or section, that's no reason to be offended or get huffy. As I've explained to many people since this forum's inception (almost seven years and 4,000 members ago) - unless you're explicitly told "quit being a jack@ss", you haven't done something wrong per se, it's just that it behooves us all to keep threads focused on the topic at hand. Sure there will be gray areas, and times where there's overlap but as all the Admins will attest - if threads are left open to complete free-for-all discussion, this forum (and any like it) lose their value as a resource.

 

For example, it's fine to discuss things like "if the casino is built in a way to attract transit users, how would that play out?", or "how would they be able to tie in transit - what would need to be built/changed?"... but instead we ended up with a bunch of posts that were baseless speculation on how many people might use transit, or are typical casino goers transit friendly which then became a discussion about ex-urbs vs. this that and the other. Then we had posts about Kasich's revisiting the licensing fees, etc. - actually, they weren't posts discussing Kasich's acts and how they might affect the casino construction, they were full-on anti-Kasich/Republican rants that focused on perceived hypocrisy, etc. - but not how those events might affect the construction. There *are* ways to have "gray area" discussions but you have to somehow tie your thoughts into the original topic of the thread. Does that make sense?

 

Also, I recommend to anyone who is new, or is participating for the first time to take some time and truly get a feel for how the forum is run, how threads are organized, etc. Check some of the earlier posts in a thread to see if what you're about to post has already been discussed, etc. If you're unsure, feel free to say "Mods, not sure if this belongs here but..." - again, a post/thread being relocated isn't a reprimand, it's just keeping the forum as organized as possible with almost 5,000 members.

 

Finally, as others have said - the Admins and Mods are not paid to maintain the forum. They take time away from their families, loved ones and livelihoods to do their job here. This forum has been in existence since 2004, and membership has grown to almost 5,000 - which includes everyone from casual observers to people who have direct first-hand involvement/knowledge of the developments/events that we all love to follow - and it's the Admins and Mods jobs to maintain the forum's appeal to all of those. While we understand it can be frustrating to get acclimated and it might seem that the Admins and Mods have a heavyhanded approach, it's that very approach that's made UrbanOhio the resource that it is. And participation on the forum is a privilege, not a right. The onus is not on the Admins and Mods to hold every newcomer's hand through the forum's protocol and structure. We want to be as welcoming as possible, but it's only fair that forumers do their part.

 

As Rock Ohio Caesars expands parking plans, disputes over Stanley Block, parking lot linger

Published: Thursday, May 05, 2011, 8:00 AM    Updated: Thursday, May 05, 2011, 9:46 AM

  By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- As Rock Ohio Caesars cobbles together parking plans for its downtown Cleveland casino, the developer is still battling over the historic Stanley Block building and a parking lot on High Street.

 

Word that the casino developer hopes to buy a nearby garage from the city of Cleveland signals that Rock Gaming and Caesars Entertainment Corp. are moving forward with a parking scheme that omits the Stanley Block.

 

But companies linked to their Cleveland joint venture are mired in a shareholder dispute over who controls the building -- and other litigation that could affect what gets built near the city's Gateway North garage.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/as_rock_ohio_caesars_expands_p.html

Graphics and renderings at the link below...

 

Downtown Cleveland casino developer wants to buy Gateway North parking garage

Published: Thursday, May 05, 2011, 5:40 AM    Updated: Thursday, May 05, 2011, 9:43 AM

  By Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The developer of a casino in Cleveland's historic Higbee building has offered the city $21 million for the nearby Gateway North parking garage.

 

It's a proposal that officials said Wednesday would benefit both sides by helping the cash-strapped city get out from under a garage that is described as seldom used while putting the developer a giant step closer to having a parking plan that could accommodate up to 5 million annual visitors.

 

Officials at Rock Ohio Caesars say that the casino-goers' experience begins when they park their car. And Rock Ohio Caesars wants to wow them. But officials add that having a seamless parking plan is important for securing financing for the $350 million project.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/higbee_casino_developer_wants.html

Save the Columbia Building!