It would maybe make one of Forbes' lists for best places for 'people watching'

 

Or worst, depending on who goes to the casino. :)

 

Anywho, that "New View" image is great.  Burnham, maybe you should include that in a letter to Jennifer.

Let me take a breath from ranting and ask a question.

 

In the "remaking the square" ideas bouncing around, was ontario the street being closed off for extensions of the quadrants?

If so, could Ontario between Prospect and the square be narrowed and a Valet area be put in on the street?

 

Just thinking.

 

 

if the skybridge is needed to be redesigned I would love the structure to be as minimal as possible.  I would love to see an all glass structure similar to Rafael Vinoly's glass connectors to the 1916 Building of The Cleveland Museum of Art  At least we could maintain an unobstructed view of The Higbee Building/Terminal Tower entering from the skywalk.

 

The other mindset is to mimic the architecture of The Higbee Building on both the Welcome Center connector buildings and the skywalk bridge.  The annex to The Halle Building parking structure matches the main building and a proposed skywalk bridge, designed by Walker and Weeks, was to match the art deco qualities of the two. The design can be seen in the book  A Cleveland Legacy The Architecture  of Walker and Weeks by Eric Johannesen. Another example of this would be the skywalk on The Wrigley Building in Chicago

I bet they buy the May Company garage, build a skywalk from there to the Welcome center and then they can take that skywalk over to the Higbee Building casino.  The intersection will be full of skywalks in no time!  :roll:

How much money did they sink into buying the Tower City property, $85MM?  If they lose a few hundred parking spots, they are going to forgo the millions they would make at even the phase I casino?? 

 

If city hall can't stand up to bullying form the casino now, then we are screwed.

What is the next compromise they will ask for, and who will say no?

 

The City of Cleveland needs the casino more than the casino needs The City of Cleveland.

 

This is such a ridiculous opinion and, unfortunately, one that Cleveland's leadership seems to share..and it's this kind of attitude that gives me so little faith in them.

^Dude, I am a loudmouth jerk...who got a call back from the Mayor's chief of staff.

 

This is a city where you can make a difference, but you have to put in the work

How about no A/C in the tube to force people to walk outside in the summer?

i was all for the casino in higbee because more than anything i wanted a central damn grand looking casino and what do you know i got my wish.

 

little did i suspect this idiotic teardown nonsense and guaranteed to be bugly welcome center and skywalk scheme would kill the buzz so bad.

 

uggh clevo, one step forward and two steps back on this one!

For the record, I don't think this will destroy downtown..I don't want to sound like a whiny kid who didn't get his way. I think Cleveland is on the upswing..I just don't see it going in the direction that I personally feel it should.

 

I did send out emails and maybe I'll try to make calls or attend meetings, but I'm fairly involved in the community and I agree that one person can make a difference here.

 

What we really need to do is get Drew Carey on the phone  :-P

 

 

That settles it, anything that loud mouth, fathead Drew Carry is against, I'm for.

I would consider it ridiculous on the grounds that it is logically false:

 

The casino doesn't open, downtown cleveland goes about its ways. Multi-million dollar developments such as FEB continue, transit options like the Healthline increase, and places like E4th continue to expand.

 

Cleveland doesn't exist and then, the Casino doesn't exist.

 

Therefore it does not follow that Cleveland needs the casino more than the casino needs it.

 

Unless your argument is that the casino doesn't need DOWNTOWN as much as DOWNTOWN needs a casino. Then that makes sense to me. But it still doesn't mean the city should bend over backwards to accommodate it, no place should settle for such horrid design.. but you see this everywhere. Including those cities you listed. Even if it's not a casino.

I could make a list a ten feet long spelling out what downtown Cleveland needs or what I personally would like to see...a casino would not appear on that list and it is not needed.  It certainly is not needed if we have to tear down the urban fabric for parking garages to make it convenient for casino goers who cannot even spell the word urban.

I could make a list a ten feet long spelling out what downtown Cleveland needs or what I personally would like to see...a casino would not appear on that list and it is not needed.  It certainly is not needed if we have to tear down the urban fabric for parking garages to make it convenient for casino goers who cannot even spell the word urban.

 

That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. If you care so much about that one building that you're willing to sacrifice an important aspect of Cleveland's rebuilding process, then move. Companies have already stated they're willing to invest in downtown Cleveland because of the casino and med mart. I've traveled to everywhere from NY state, NJ, Vegas, St. Louis, WV (barf), Illinois, Pittsburgh and countless other cities and states in order to gamble. I'm sick of other people having a say in what I can or can't do as far as playing a little craps goes. If YOU don't want a casino, then don't go, move out to Westlake and live in Crocker park so you won't ever have to see it. If they were tearing down some amazing building for a parking garage I'd see a little more reason for a fuss. But this building is very unassuming and won't even be missed once it's gone. Someone showed how it looks like some converted condos in Chicago and what not, but it's not like you had to halt important progress downtown Chicago to turn those buildings into condos. Here's an idea, lets keep the Columbia building, scrap the casino so the stanley block and Columbia can stay empty (along with the multiple other downtown properties) because there are no companies willing to invest because we don't have any real attraction like a CASINO!

But Cleveland has NO CHOICE OR ALTERNATIVES AT ALL. It's either the casino or an empty Higbee building for the next 50 years. Something is better than nothing.

 

Do you realize that tenants were displaced from Higbees for the casino? Key Bank also occupies three of the upper floors.

Once again, certain people have decided that they'd rather make ignorant/inflammatory/insulting comments than have a civil discussion. This thread isn't about why downtown Cleveland isn't up to someone's standards because there aren't busy chain restaurants, nor is it about referring to other cities (especially other cities in Ohio) as "hellholes", or insulting other forumers. Until official announcements are made about the construction, this thread remains locked - for those of you who were having a civil and mature discussion, I hope you understand this decision.

Governor praises casino agreement with Rock Ohio Caesars

 

Posted: 06/13/2011

Last Updated: 25 minutes ago

By: John Kosich

 

CLEVELAND - Ohio Governor John Kasich ® Monday praised the weekend agreement with Dan Gilbert's Rock Ohio Caesars, the developer of two of the state’s four casinos under construction in Cleveland and Cincinnati, over additional casino taxes and fees.

 

“I believe that the agreement we have with Rock will benefit the citizens of the State of Ohio,” said Kasich. “I'm also pleased that Rock's going to be able to get about their business, we want them to be successful and yes I'm very satisfied with where we are."

 

The move clears the way for work to resume on the nearly $400 million Phase I Horseshoe Casino Cleveland.

 

More at http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/governor-praises-casino-agreement-with-rock-ohio-caesars

 

Now that this thread is being reopened - anyone posting off-topic, posting inflammatory or insulting comments gets an immediate two week suspension.

I love that this thread is open again, but too bad that it comes only after the fate of the Columbia is sealed.

Are we ever going to know the details of the agreement? Are any additional taxes/fees being paid, or did Kasich walk away with nothing?

I love that this thread is open again, but too bad that it comes only after the fate of the Columbia is sealed.

 

The Columbia Building was and continues to be discussed heavily in the Cleveland Demolitions thread:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7006.0.html

Are we ever going to know the details of the agreement? Are any additional taxes/fees being paid, or did Kasich walk away with nothing?

 

It says after Wednesday we should know the details of the agreement, and that everybody should be pleased with it...?  Apparently it was too early to discuss details. 

That agreement came in lightning fast after the landmarks decision not to let them demo the Columbia until the state and casinos settled.  Could be a coincidence, or the casino felt it already had the state where they wanted it, and quickly decided to take the offer.

 

Or, maybe the Columbia demo wasn't swept under the rug as neatly as was hoped, and the protests are having an effect. 

HTS121, regarding your post on May 24th.  A delayed difference of opinion here about the BP Building not replacing good buildings; we lost the Cuyahoga Building and the Williamson Building, which were both fully occupied and were great compliments to Public Square.  The original plan was to place the then Sohio building behind Terminal Tower on Huron Rd., but Alton Whitehouse's mind was changed by others and was convinced Sohio simply had to be in a more prestigious location and that could only be on PS.  Of course, the building design was changed as well. 

Good info.  But we don't have a difference of opinion.  I agree with you.  My response was simply to offer examples of projects in which we DID lose something of significance..... or at least as significant as the Columbia.

Details of the casino deal from the PD - this looks like a win-win after all, solidly clearing the way for the phase 2...I mean 2nd casino downtown!  :-D

 

Cleveland casino developer will pay Ohio $110 million over 10 years

Published: Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 11:36 AM    Updated: Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 1:03 PM

Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer By Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer

 

The agreement between Ohio and Gilbert's company, Rock Gaming LLC, and its casino partner, Caesars Entertainment Inc.,  will require the developer to pay the state a total of about $110 million over 10 years in annual installments....

 

In exchange for the additional payments, Rock Ohio Caesars will be allowed to add slot machines at the Thistledown, the North Randall thoroughbred track owned by the joint venture, according to a summary released Wednesday morning.

 

And a requirement that the casino now being built in Cleveland's Higbee building must close within two years of a larger, so-called "phase II" casino opening nearby on Huron Road will be eliminated, clearing the way for Rock Ohio Caesars to operate what would be essentially two casinos in downtown Cleveland with a total investment approaching $1 billion.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/06/cleveland_casino_developer_wil.html

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/06/cleveland_casino_developer_wil.html#incart_hbx

 

 

It looks like both sides got a little of what they wanted, Higbee building stays open permanantly and they get their stupid slot machines at the race track. In turn Ohio gets more money. Just throw a craps table in the middle of public square and I'd be happy.

 

Now people cant be so upset about the Columbia coming down for a temporary casino seeing as how it will forever be part of the casino complex.

They should have had the press conference in the Columbia Building.  ;)

 

Not a fan of the idea of slot machines at the race tracks.  One of the reasons I supported the casino was because it would be putting something downtown that didn't exist out in the suburbs.  But now slot machines will be out in the suburbs.  Gilbert doesn't care - he gets their money either way.  But those who care about vibrant, dense downtowns should care because if they can get it in the suburbs, they won't come downtown for it.  That's what happened with Tower City when all those cool stores suddenly started popping up in the burbs.

^^Sorry...always thought Higbee was going to be permanent so I am still upset about Columbia coming down, the architectural mess that is replacing it and that horrible walk way.

I mean, at the very least, can't they build an apartment tower on the top of this new parking garage?  That would ease the pain for me somewhat.  Give me a few hundred residential units instead of just more parking spaces.  They're spending $1 billion already.  What's another $50 million?

Although I think the way he went about it was not handled that well, it appears that this Kasich roadblock worked out well for all involved.  He deserves some credit for that.

Apologies if this has already been shared... But have those against the Columbia Building being demolished signed this petition?: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/downtown-is-our-town/ The group behind this was far more successful in attaining signatures in person.

I imagine it is already posted here - http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7006.0.html

I imagine it is already posted here - http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7006.0.html

 

I believe it is... Just wanted to make sure all were aware :).

Their goal is 1000 signatures.  #154

I just caught a bit of the Kasich interview on WTAM.  A couple points of interest:

 

1) Kasich said that the deal allows Rock Gaming to build a "connected casino"

 

2) The deal does not "require" Rock to build Phase II.  FYI, Triv asked this one... Kasich did not bring it up.

 

The State has not reached a deal with Penn National yet.  But just reading between the lines of what Kasich was saying, I have to assume that Rock insisted upon a "me too" clause.  That might create a huge problem in the negotiations with Penn National since its planned level of investment was substantially smaller.

Their goal is 1000 signatures.  #154

 

1,000 total. The live petition has more signatures. They were out grabbing them in Gordon Square over the weekend. I THINK they're around 600 or so? But I could be wrong.

Also, the agreement allows slots at the racetracks.  I guess that would be Thistledown in Cleveland, and I think allows the others to be moved to less (ha) gambling saturated areas (Youngstown and Dayton) to operate slots at those. 

I feel like the amount of money gilbert had to pay the state was very small considering what he got in return and the stink Kasich raised.  it allowed gilbert to keep both casinos without getting the laws changed.

I was expecting something more substantial like a percentage raise, not ten mil a year for a decade.

There will be a separate licensing fee for each race track they want to put slots in.  Something like $45mill per track, IIRC.  There also is a requirement that the facilities be updated/modernized if the slots are added.

There is a discussion about the Penn National racetracks at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9063.0.html

Reposted from the Random Cleveland Development thread....

 

 

In the meantime, the Stanley is officially under restoration and should 'wow' everybody despite the context of a surrounding Hot Wheels set.

 

 

You deserve all the credit in the world for that awesome, derisive, yet horribly accurate description! Yes, we are sacrificing downtown Cleveland's urbanity and historic beauty for a billionaire's Hot Wheels set, aka Casino Welcome Center.

Stanley is not yet officially undergoing anything... though people are working hard to make something happen.

$30 million in construction contracts awarded for Cleveland's Higbee casino

Published: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 5:30 AM    Updated: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 8:45 AM

  By Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer

 

Jeff Cohen has millions in his pocket, the historic Higbee building to work with, and a little more than six months to transform a cherished Cleveland landmark into a Las Vegas-style casino

He's betting he can do it.

 

Cohen, vice chairman of the Cleveland Cavaliers who's overseeing the construction of the first phase of the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland, said Wednesday that casino developer Rock Ohio Caesars had just awarded 20 new construction contracts worth $30 million.

As proof, construction workers didn't even stop while he told reporters that crews had been working double shifts to make up for time that was lost when the project shut down May 11 because of a dispute with the governor over raising casino taxes and fees.

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/06/30_million_in_construction_con.html

"The second-story flagpoles that line Prospect Avenue and Ontario Street will be restored. "  My favorite line.  I always thought raising flags there would add a touch of class and color to the area.  Really starting to like this project.  With the exception of adding even more parking downtown.  Net gain I guess.

I was all for the casino until they decide they needed to knock down one historic, handsome building and deface another with that tube. 

 

I am just mad I got so suckered by Gilbert

I was all for the casino until they decide they needed to knock down one historic, handsome building and deface another with that tube. 

 

I am just mad I got so suckered by Gilbert

 

Is the "tube" a done deal?  I thought it had not been approved as rendered initially, although approved in concept, by CPC.  Also, wouldn't the Historic Tax Credit be in jeopardy if the facade of a buidling is changed.

If Forest City is fine with losing the tax credit, there is nothing holding Rock Gaming.  The planning commision asked for them to improve it, but nothing about not having it in the location proposed. 

It says the basement "will feature a kitchen and a 400-seat buffet restaurant with an entrance to the Tower City food court".  I think that will be a good connection to Tower City and that a buffet restaurant will be a good addition to the food court.  I wonder where that connection will come through?

There's several existing passages the casino could use. This is the original (1930) floor plan for the concourse level of the Cleveland Union Terminal Group showing the eastern half of the complex....

 

 

And a cut-away of the same concourse level in 1930.....

 

Just thought I'd say that cut-away view is cool!

 

You deserve all the credit in the world for that awesome, derisive, yet horribly accurate description! Yes, we are sacrificing downtown Cleveland's urbanity and historic beauty for a billionaire's Hot Wheels set, aka Casino Welcome Center.

 

Thanks. I thought that was the best way to characterize it too