^Gee I don't know...very interesting article...but I think your post is going to encourage a couple of pages of speculation not nip it in the bud.

I think he is obligated by law to build the new facility.

^There's no such requirement in the language of the bill.  There is a location requirement and a minimum investment requirement ($250M).  The Higbee's location meets both of these requirements.

Wait, I think I can fix this. Just use this code I wrote, and replace line 10 with "I think Phase II won't be built". The rest will work just fine.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15165.msg575416.html#msg575416

 

 

^Thank you.  I needed that laugh.

 

Whoa I did not know that this conversation was taking place yesterday. Very rarely can I follow multiple threads from work...the nature of my work won't allow for it.

FWIW, I think phase 2 will be built.

Couple things, just my opinion.

 

1. I think they should have just scratched the Higbee/Welcome Center phase and just went ahead and built phase 2. 

 

2.  Do you think that phase 2 is a good spot?  What about building it in the flats?  Be like The Flats Casino. Sounds better than Horseshoe Casino.  But I know the flats is getting a boardwalk and all that.

^The location is mandated by the vote and constitution

I think the welcome center/parking garage is way around having to build over the Cuyahoga river.  You will remember that they wanted to expand the building due to wanting more parking spaces.  They would have had to get approval from the federal government which was not going to happen in a timely manner.  Not to mention the cost of doing this.

Cleveland's Horseshoe Casino will connect with downtown, developers say

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Horseshoe Casino at the Higbee Building is expected to attract millions of eager gamblers and curious visitors to the city.

 

But will it boost downtown businesses or compete for their entertainment dollars?

 

There's no way to know. No one has opened a big casino in a downtown entertainment district like Cleveland's before, so we can't turn to history for an answer. This will be an experiment with a lot of money riding on it.

 

The operators of Rock Gaming, the company that owns Horseshoe Cleveland, said they intend for the permanent and temporary facilities to feed gamblers into the downtown bars and restaurants, adding life to the entertainment district.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/developers_say_horseshoe_casin.html

Whatever one may think of this article or the casino, I was happy to read this:

"Several businesses, including traditional retailers, restaurants and bars, have already inquired about leasing space in Tower City, said Joe Linton, a spokesman for Forest City Enterprise Inc., which owns the center."

Cleveland's Horseshoe Casino will connect with downtown, developers say

 

 

 

But will it boost downtown businesses or compete for their entertainment dollars?

 

There's no way to know. No one has opened a big casino in a downtown entertainment district like Cleveland's before, so we can't turn to history for an answer. This will be an experiment with a lot of money riding on it.

 

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/developers_say_horseshoe_casin.html

 

Wouldn't Greektown in Downtown Detroit qualify?  I mean Detroit's downtown had been long dead, but Greektown was always a somewhat thriving entertainment district within it. 

 

 

i haven't seen it, but i got the impression that it doesn't meet with the street like the one on public square will

From the article:

 

"Regionally, it will divert money from suburban entertainment venues to downtown."

 

Good.

From the article:

 

"Regionally, it will divert money from suburban entertainment venues to downtown."

 

Good.

 

My thoughts exactly.

From the article:

 

"Regionally, it will divert money from suburban entertainment venues to downtown."

 

Good.

Couldn't agree more

 

I was looking at some Flats ownership data and noticed something I had overlooked earlier.  Rock Ohio bought the land behind Tower City all along the river and winding out toward Eagle Ave.  I guess I had to know that, since there was earlier buzz about widening the river, but the area down there where the Rib Cook Off, and various concerts take place throughout the summer was included.  I'm not saying this is bad or good -- assuming Phase II ever happens -- but so long as Rock Ohio owns that land I wonder how it could affect Tower City Amphitheater plans.  I expect they'll continue with shows and events -- but any interest in further development down there would be put off.

 

 

^I believe that amphitheater back there already closed (or announced it would close) as a result of the transaction.

http://www.cleveland.com/popmusic/index.ssf/2011/03/time_warner_cable_amphitheater.html

Strap -- thanks for the article, had missed that one.  I'm glad the Nautica Pavillion will be improved upon, but now have one-more-reason I hope Phase 2 is not a bust/long-shot development.  The land along that Cuyahoga could be very attractive to developers and if that area ends up sitting in the hands of Rock Ohio for years without a casino building going up it'll be another chapter of our misused waterfront.

 

 

Strap -- thanks for the article, had missed that one.  I'm glad the Nautica Pavillion will be improved upon, but now have one-more-reason I hope Phase 2 is not a bust/long-shot development.  The land along that Cuyahoga could be very attractive to developers and if that area ends up sitting in the hands of Rock Ohio for years without a casino building going up it'll be another chapter of our misused waterfront.

 

 

 

 

This would make a really neat area for housing and a better use than a multistory casino.  The working Cuyahoga is a unique residential concept and seems to hav done well where it has been tired.

 

Tedolph

Good point Tedolph but I think that ship has sailed, at least for this parcel.  That still leaves us several peninsulas to work with though.

Cleveland left holding hundreds of bike grips after Gateway art project dies

 

Plans to bond nearly 600 of the handles, each with a lime-green streamer, above the city's slick, new bike station are dead.

The reason - the Bike Rack on East Fourth Street is on the ground floor of a Gateway garage now owned by Rock Ohio Caesars Cleveland, LLC.

 

 

Read more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/cleveland_left_holding_23000_w.html

It was said on NPR today that the skywalk might never be built

It was said on NPR today that the skywalk might never be built

 

Well this would be quite the news. Do you know who was speaking/what program they were speaking on?

It was said on NPR today that the skywalk might never be built

 

Well this would be quite the news. Do you know who was speaking/what program they were speaking on?

 

Not really.  There was always a good chance that it wouldnt be built. 

As of now it is still not in the construction plans, just on the wish list of Rock Gaming. 

There are a number of obstacles, many of which were discussed on here.         

^^I am assuming Roserob is referring to the local 9:00 a.m. show (can't remember what it is called) with Mike McIntyre.  I caught bits and pieces of it but did not hear this statement so I don't know if it was made by the guest, but if it was he is the general manager of the casino so would be in the know.  They also had a guy from the Downtown Cleveland Alliance (Maranucci?) so he might have said it.

Marcus Glover said the state historical review board had objection and it won;t be built for a few years at the earliest and might not ever be built at all

Thats right.

Glover also said Phase II is definitely happening, although he didn't indicate a time frame. 

It was said on NPR today that the skywalk might never be built

 

Well this would be quite the news. Do you know who was speaking/what program they were speaking on?

 

It was on at 90.3 at 9 with Mike McIntyre. It was said by Marcus Glover, the SVP and GM of the Horseshoe Casino [see http://www.horseshoe.com/info/cleveland/assets/Glover_GM-release-FINAL.pdf for his bio]. He said that the state had denied the historical tax credits and as a result, the bridge won't be built for 'at least a couple years' after the casino opens, if at all.

Thank god we tore down that 100 year old building in such a freaking hurry so we could have "connected" parking from the casino.

 

except now we won't

 

derp....

 

How do we ensure that the "Planning Commission" people no longer have their jobs.

 

It is obvious that they are incapable of performing the task that they are assigned.

 

 

 

 

I had to laugh at one point...A major topic of the segment was connectivity and a caller complain about many things in this regard including the demolition of the Columbia (spelling) Building.  I think it was the Alliacne guy who jumped to the defense proclaiming all the public hearings in this regard (big deal, the mayor wanted it so it was a done deal) and then proclaimed what great guys the Casino folks are because they let the Stanley Block stand as a compromise.  Like they had any choice since they did not have control of the building.  Also did not mention their straw men where fighting to gain control of it to eventually tear it down.

 

What people are allowed to said when people interviewing them don't know the facts.

Thank god we tore down that 100 year old building in such a freaking hurry so we could have "connected" parking from the casino.

 

except now we won't

 

derp....

 

 

They would have wanted to tear down that building for closer parking regardless of the bridge.  Although they clearly didnt expect any obsticles after the city rolled over for them and the planning commission not demanding higher standards and being so shortsighted .   

The people on the planning committee were under a lot of pressure from City Hall.

 

Wait, didn't financing require the skywalk?  Or was that just BS so that Gilbert could steamroll any opposition to his "welcome center"

 

^I recall that being said at some point on this board, but I don't recall if it was somebody quoting an insider or posting a news article that said it, or whether it was just somebody on the board speculating.

As were the people on the Landmarks Commission but....

 

Well they were trying to craftily word it that way.  I believe the emphasis was on parking within a certain amount of feet, but that spilled into/was spun into the need for a covered connected walkway (although apparently the city never asked to see this info). 

 

There may have actually been some language about avialable parking spaces but the rest was spun out of that.     

Has any work started on the garage since the demo of the Columbia?

^Its hard to say with the fence up but I do believe they are actively digging the foundation. Cannot tell if they've poured it yet

Yes. There's foundation work going on, has been for a couple of weeks, based on casual observation last week.

Some of the first floor columns are already complete as of yesterday. 

Casino builders unlikely to put in skywalk from parking garage to Higbee Building any time soon

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Visitors to downtown's Horseshoe Casino during the winter likely are going to have to brave Cleveland's cold and snowy weather because federal officials have dealt a major setback to plans for a skywalk connecting the casino to a valet parking center.

 

More than 5 million visitors a year are expected to gamble in the casino now being built on four floors of the Higbee Building. A major part of the project is a valet parking center and 1,300-space garage being built catty-corner across Ontario Street and Prospect Ave.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/casino_builders_unlikely_to_pu.html

Casino builders unlikely to put in skywalk from parking garage to Higbee Building any time soon

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Visitors to downtown's Horseshoe Casino during the winter likely are going to have to brave Cleveland's cold and snowy weather because federal officials have dealt a major setback to plans for a skywalk connecting the casino to a valet parking center.

 

More than 5 million visitors a year are expected to gamble in the casino now being built on four floors of the Higbee Building. A major part of the project is a valet parking center and 1,300-space garage being built catty-corner across Ontario Street and Prospect Ave.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/casino_builders_unlikely_to_pu.html

 

The PD is at it again, with the BS and editorial slant.  Really, these people will be walking across the street.  They walk further for work! This is city life stop making it seem like an inconvenience!

my comment to this article

"...or they can park in any number of indoor parking structures already attached to Tower City"

 

How can we find out the financial ties between Dan Gilbert - Rock Gaming and the power that be at the PD?

It disgusts me the way they worded this poll...

 

 

Its funny because noting about this story is anything new.  I guess they just wanted to do a stupid poll.

 

The quotes from John Sandor at the National Park Service are from months ago.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/casino_builders_unlikely_to_pu.html

 

Sandor said the question is not whether the building will lose it's historic designation, but weather it will remain certified for IRS purposes for tax credits. Those tax credits allow Forest City to recoup a portion of what it has spent on past renovations.

 

ha ha, you were right the first time sir.

Hey, anyone know what this is all about?  It looked like they're setting up a crane outside the Higbee, that whole portion of Ontario is closed (which made it difficult for me to jaywalk!).... Is it for the Welcome Center or are they doing something to the actual Higbee Building?

 

using the crane to hangup new flags. No lol, but I hope they take down the dillards sign. Is that thing still up there?

FWIW - While the Columbia Building demolition did not sit well with me, the proposed pedestrian bridge did come with the benefit of "activating" the second floor of the casino.  With the ruling from the SHPO and the Park Service at a federal level, I wonder if the ruling would have had a different outcome if the bridge was not attached to the Higbee structure.  Lets suppose Gilbert were to build a movable pedestrian bridge (similar to the jackknife bridges on the cuyahoga) with the base of the bridge on the former Columbia building site.  The only modification to the Higbee required to gain access on the second floor would be modifying the windows on the second floor corner (which are already 8ft+ tall) to be hinged and open-able.  In a dream scenario, the jackknife bridge could even be up during good weather months, and have the bridge only be lowered in the cold months.

 

Dude that is freakin awesome! Nice job. You should twitpic that over to Gilbert's Twitter account.