Hand me a bat because it is a pretty ridiculous name for a garage. 

What will they call the overhead walkway, the self propelled horizontal ferris wheel?

^^ KJP, where do you find this stuff?!?!!?!?!  Back on topic though with this!

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/02/horseshoe_casino_cleveland_inc.html

 

Corky's at the Casino!!!!!    :clap: :clap: :clap:  Three claps from Cleveland's Jewish community.  I can't wait to stop here on my way to class (or on way home?)  Much more conducive to us RTA kids than Slyman's.

^^ KJP, where do you find this stuff?!?!!?!?!  Back on topic though with this!

 

Well, there's this really cool search engine called Google. It's even better than NorthernLights! ;)

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

It would be nice if the Higbee building could get a nice bath before it opens, with maybe a Prosoco product or something.  With all the new lighting to go on the building, you'd hate for that to highlight the 80+ years of soot and grime.  However I would say unlikely since the opening is slated for this year and that is probably something Forest City would have to pay for.

^I believe it was cleaned within the past few years, but I hear you its getting bad again.

Yes, it's been cleaned. It could use some spit and a brush again.

they have some of the exterior lights installed on prospect ave.  they have been on the last couple of weeks - not sure if it is a test or the actual lights they plan to use.

The Ohio Casino Control Commission has stated the Horseshoe Casino will open May 14

And Cleveland.com with the confirmation (as if my word weren't good enough)

 

 

 

Cleveland's casino will be first to open in Ohio, on May 14

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_casino_will_open_fir.html

 

 

 

With the skyway still on hold, at least the casino goers will spared from the horrors of April showers

^Hey its Cleveland...could be April "snow" showers. :wink:

i wished it would be open for the rock hall inductions, a lot of out of town money to be made.

^Really?  I don't see it.

^why not?

^Really?  I don't see it.

 

The ceremony is an economic boost and having the casino open, in my eyes, would have enhanced it

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/cleveland_pledges_500000_for_2.html

"The Rock Hall estimates that the 2009 ceremony brought $13 million into the local economy."

 

^Really?  I don't see it.

 

The ceremony is an economic boost and having the casino open, in my eyes, would have enhanced it

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/cleveland_pledges_500000_for_2.html

"The Rock Hall estimates that the 2009 ceremony brought $13 million into the local economy."

 

 

I have to agree with this -- as much as I dislike this casino for what its parking demands are doing to downtown, and though personally have no interest in gambling.

 

BTW, some have called this casino the first casino to be so fully integrated into a major city's downtown. Seeing the parking requirements this thing demands, I can see why no American downtown has tried to insert one into its central business district -- until now. I fear this thing will do to downtown Cleveland what the Justice Center did to the Warehouse District. Let me rephrase that -- what the Justice Center was allowed to do to the Warehouse District. And what the casino is being allowed to do to downtown.

Big difference there KJP.  The Justice Center, built at the peak of county corruption even if nobody paid much attention to it, had a much much greater impact as far as leveling block upon block of densely built structures into a giant surface lot district.  The casino has not spawned one surface lot and its parking demands really are only responsible for the destruction of one arguably significant building.  In all fairness, Gateway and its parking demands had a bigger impact.

i wished it would be open for the rock hall inductions, a lot of out of town money to be made.

 

Hopefully, they'll be forced to spend their money on other things in Cleveland! :)

 

but...I tend to agree.

Has anyone heard the other dining options yet at the casino?  I thought they were going to be announced last week, but I had not heard anything.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/clevelands_stanley_block_build.html

 

Cleveland's Stanley Block building faces demolition after owner fails to make it safe

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/clevelands_stanley_block_build.html

 

Cleveland's Stanley Block building faces demolition after owner fails to make it safe

 

Downtown Cleveland = the new Downtown Detroit!

 

Dan Gilbert saves buildings in Detroit, destroys em in Cleveland.  Good times!

Can we just rename this thread "We hate Dan Gilbert" because somehow 40 years of neglect is his fault.

The way I read the article there were two owners, a family who wanted to renovate, and Rock Caesars who stalled.  Do I have it wrong?

The Maloofs had every opportunity over the years to renovate. But they were the classic example of a slum landlord because they were making money. Why would they spend any of it on renovation. The surface parking lot business was very good to them. How a building looked was not at the top of their agenda.

The Maloofs had every opportunity over the years to renovate. But they were the classic example of a slum landlord because they were making money. Why would they spend any of it on renovation. The surface parking lot business was very good to them. How a building looked was not at the top of their agenda.

 

What parking lots do they own !? On the auditor's site, Maloof is listed as the owner of 2 properties in Cleveland: the auto parts store at 1240 Carnegie [Parcel 122-02-001], and a house on harborview [in edgewater].

How were the Maloof's making money on a building that has been vacant for ages?

Has anyone heard the other dining options yet at the casino?  I thought they were going to be announced last week, but I had not heard anything.

 

 

Buffet, Corky & Lenny's and The B Spot are the current confirmed tenants. Its not official but I know Rocco Whalen has had some discussions about opening a place in there.

The Maloof's sold two parking lots to USA Parking within the Stanley block area in Jan. 2010. And I am no tax expert but if you own a building for 20 plus years that never had one tenant, somehow that is working in your favor.

How convenient....  I think some knew this would be the case all along...  Make it look like you want to preserve the building and then claim you cannot do it for the host of reasons presented. What a joke...all those who wanted this casino so badly and at the same time want your history preserved and pedestrian friendly city, get what you deserve!.....Get what you deserve for banking all your chips on this gaming nonsense to "save the city" in any way.  The proverbial "deal with the devil" is what you got..sell your city's soul for parking lots for suburban fat people too lazy to walk 10 feet! This city has way too many parking spaces as it is and should be doing away with them instead of adding more! WTF?

 

Btw, a little off, but surely near...and to our other "savior"  Maron...how about maintaining the restores on 4th a little better. The maintenance on details like lighting and facade paint  and other pointers is slack. Restoration is not something you do once and forget about it for another 50 years. This kind of slack is a disease here.

Can we just rename this thread "We hate Dan Gilbert" because somehow 40 years of neglect is his fault.

 

We won't get into that.  I don't think anyone is saying that the last four decades has been all his fault, but certainly a lot has been destroyed recently in the area around the casino.  Destroyed in the name of progress, but progress is parking structures?  He bends over backwards to save all these abandoned buildings in Detroit, but now Cleveland has to lose theirs for parking, it's just annoying.  Once again, Cleveland gets screwed by people from out of state.  Don't get me wrong, I like that he saved the Higbee Building especially for the casino, but other than that, it is disappointing to say the least.

Dan Gilbert is just being Dan Gilbert: Businessman.

 

On the other hand, I have little faith that elected officials can be relied upon to protect interests outside those of powerful developers in this city. How these officials (and we as a community) respond to all of this is paramount in what kind of city this becomes.

 

This is far from over.

 

Upcoming rounds of conflict are sure to focus on how Ratners/Gilbert address the property along the Cuyahoga River. And as you know, all indications are that they want to F- it all up in tremendous fashion. They will continue to put their highest value on PARKING above all else. 

 

 

Dan Gilbert is just being Dan Gilbert: Businessman.

 

On the other hand, I have little faith that elected officials can be relied upon to protect interests outside those of powerful developers in this city.

 

Exactly.  Dan Gilbert can be expected to make these moves.  How are our elected officials responding?

as far as im concerned, gilbert only has his hands bloodied from one building.  blaming him for the may company building and stanley block is misdirected anger.  Also, he is responsible for the restoration and repurposing of the higbee building, which is worth something... 

as far as im concerned, gilbert only has his hands bloodied from one building.  blaming him for the may company building and stanley block is misdirected anger.  Also, he is responsible for the restoration and repurposing of the higbee building, which is worth something...

 

True.  Blame the idiots that run the city of Cleveland.  If Detroit can sit there and save buildings for useful purposes, why can't Cleveland....

as far as im concerned, gilbert only has his hands bloodied from one building.  blaming him for the may company building and stanley block is misdirected anger.  Also, he is responsible for the restoration and repurposing of the higbee building, which is worth something... 

 

Agreed.  Considering the big picture, it's hard for me to view Gilbert as a bad guy.

After all the fuss over the casino planning it would really be something if Rock ends up with pretty much everything they've originally wanted with no real concessions. No Columbia, no Stanley, the complete Hot Wheels set, and probably the skywalk eventually. How does that happen?

 

I don't think Gilbert and co. are the ones to complain about either. Whether or not they're evil businessmen that want to destroy Downtown Cleveland for their own gain is irrelevant to me..companies doing what they can to maximize profits should be expected..especially a casino company. I know there have been difficult circumstances and tough decisions to be made, but the end result of this project falls on city leaders when it's all said and done.

I moved this post here.

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,16941.msg603638.html#msg603638

Are they referring to the conference that was to be held at Tower City about the casino an it's influence on retail?  I was wondering what would be discussed there. Always talk about new retail coming to TC but still nothing real has been announced

Big difference there KJP.  The Justice Center, built at the peak of county corruption even if nobody paid much attention to it, had a much much greater impact as far as leveling block upon block of densely built structures into a giant surface lot district.  The casino has not spawned one surface lot and its parking demands really are only responsible for the destruction of one arguably significant building.  In all fairness, Gateway and its parking demands had a bigger impact.

 

I'm thinking more in terms of the destruction of historic buildings downtown. Columbia Building -- gone. Stanley Block -- at risk. May Company -- at risk.

 

If the casino's major clientele will arrive only by car, not even consider transit and produce such huge parking demands, that's why I tend to think this does not belong in a major city's Central Business District. And it explains why none has been attempted until now.

 

I realize it's too late to change or stop this. I'm merely commenting on the early returns from this test of having a CBD-based casino.

Would you make the same argument for sports venues?

I agree with KJP.  If sports venues were developed the same way, I would definitely make the same argument for them.  The genius of Gateway was that much of the parking was integrated into the development itself through comprehensive urban design guidelines, plus most of the events are after-hours, so it can be served by existing parking facilities.  The problem with the casino is that only the gambling location was restricted by the ballot amendment, not the parking, and the city clearly didn't care where the parking would end up, or wasn't smart enough to anticipate the new demand for parking projects.

.... or thought, on balance, the potential positives outweigh the potential negatives.

'or thought, on balance, the potential positives outweigh the potential negatives.'

 

Parking lot developers give them envelopes of cash and/or campaign contributions.  All voters do is 1) bit$% if they live in cleveland and care 2) Bit&*  that the whole city should be torn down for parking/make more faster highways if they live in the burbs.

 

 

Those are the extremes.  Most of the population would not fall under either of those categories.

Would you make the same argument for sports venues?

 

If you're referring to Gateway, no. When I didn't take transit downtown for college classes in the early 1990s, I used to park in the lots that were eliminated for Gateway. BTW, my classes were at Myers when it was in the Columbia Building -- the irony is thick! Anyway, that area between the active CBD and the Inner Belt was an incredibly desolate area. Other than an adult book store and a bar there were no other active businesses in that area. I'm pretty sure the old Cold Storage Warehouse was already vacant by then. So I don't consider that Gateway added on to the CBD rather than be "inserted" into the CBD. Instead, I consider it as removing blight and desolation more than it eliminated or otherwise damaged viable buildings, aside from the small-scale buildings east of East 9th Street near the Erie Street Cemetery. I wished that structured parking had been built along East 9th north of Carnegie instead demolishing those small-scale buildings. That is the primary casualty I see from Gateway.

If the casino's major clientele will arrive only by car, not even consider transit and produce such huge parking demands, that's why I tend to think this does not belong in a major city's Central Business District.

 

I don't think casino clientele are more likely to shun public transportation than the rest of the general population.  Northeast Ohio is a car lovin' town, thanks to flat farmland that's easy to develop and a state department of transportation that prioritizes highways and exit ramps more than encouraging public transportation. 

 

So no matter what you build downtown - a casino, shops, restaurants, offices, residences, an aquarium - Ohioans want cheap/free parking for their cars.  I'm not one of those people, but I understand that as a business you have to market to your audience.  It's not Gilbert's job to get his customers to love transit (and the casino is plenty accessible by public transit). 

^I would bet good money that casino visitors will be more likely to arrive by car than people attending the sports venues or even than the normal daytime working population.

 

The only point is that big venues bring big parking demands, which can have unintended consequences.  Some cities deal with that by putting venues outside dense areas, others deal with it by carefully planning for the parking demands (like Gateway).  It just seems a little messy when a city does neither.

Buffet, Corky & Lenny's and The B Spot are the current confirmed tenants. Its not official but I know Rocco Whalen has had some discussions about opening a place in there.

 

This post was the first I heard about B Spot.  Newsnet5 is calling it "Breaking news" right now:

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/chef-michael-symon-bringing-his-b-spot-restaurant-to-horseshoe-casino-clevelands-food-court

 

Whats with Newsnet5....  They were also reporting the Kimpton Hotel nearly 2 weeks after it was reported everywhere else as if it was breaking news, after incorrectly reporting this as being on Prospect and the Tilted Kilt at Euclid and E. 9th......   

jborger, you're way off base. If having flat farmland and a highway-oriented state DOT were the major factors, than Chicago would have much less density, lower transit use than what it does, and as much surface parking downtown as Cleveland. Even so, Cleveland is more transit oriented than any other city in Ohio (twice the ridership of #2 Cincinnati), and the 14th most transit-oriented in the nation in term of ridership (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-15.pdf) and car-free households (http://tinyurl.com/7v62vtz). And transit use directly correlates to land use. Downtowns cannot be viable as dense, mixed-use places without good transit, and transit cannot thrive without dense, mixed use districts. Without either, downtowns decline and transit use declines.

 

How these built environments are managed are the result of conscious decisions. They are not the result of the weather or acts of Mother Nature. That is why I and others speak up to voice our displeasure over the land-use decisions being made to further erode the urban land use quality of our city. We, the citizens, should control the future of our city. Not the few developers like Dan Gilbert (who, btw, co-chairs Detroit's light-rail project http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120107/METRO/201070347). As for casino users, they are in fact more apt to drive to casinos than take transit to them. If any kind of transit is taken, it's the tour buses which converge on casinos. I don't remember specific numbers, but I seem to recall that something in the area of 15 percent of downtown Cleveland commuters use transit. I would be very surprised if more than 2-3 percent of casino visitors will use transit.