So RTA went to Gilbert looking for matching funds. Yeah I read that a month ago. Groundbreaking. And I was talking about trains.

(btw take the period off the end of your link or it wont work)

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/post_563.html

The trains are fine... I take them daily.  If your problem is you want more trains... go someplace with a growing population where congestion is an issue.... it's not a feasible option in this region right now. :-(  Let's move this thread back to the casino and leave trains for the RTA section... 

 

I got to show an elder couple around the "casino area" tonight as they seemed very lost.  They probably haven't been to downtown Cleveland since the 1980s, good to see suburbanites take a leap for a change (even if it's just to gawk at the casino.

@CleveCane that was very nice of you :-)

The trains are fine... I take them daily.  If your problem is you want more trains... go someplace with a growing population where congestion is an issue.... it's not a feasible option in this region right now. :-(  Let's move this thread back to the casino and leave trains for the RTA section... 

 

 

What he said, on both messages. There are ways of getting more trains, but the casino folks weren't interested in that either. I know, as I was directly involved in that. For more, go to the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR thread. The casino people are, however, interested in having the Jet Express dock on the river next to Phase II and make the boat trip the start of the "casino experience" with wine, cheese, music, etc. We proposed the same thing with CVSR, but they couldn't seem to picture it. Sadly the station for the Jet Express and CVSR would have been shared and provided a train/boat ride linking the Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the Lake Erie Islands via the casino. Oh well, maybe some day....

I hope the casino will be a successful redevelopment effort for the city, but the ground rules have to be re-emphasized in order for the city to maximize its potential.  This project was sold to the public as a way to spur redevelopment of downtown Cleveland, and sadly these goals are being ignored. 

 

In order for Cleveland to succeed it needs to complement new ideas with its existing strengths.  Public transit is one of those strengths and the Tower City complex is one of the city’s most underappreciated and underutilized assets.  The last thing downtown Cleveland needs is more surface parking.   

 

In order to understand, you really need to take a step back and look at the city from an outsider’s perspective.  In less than a month, you will have a casino right in the center of downtown which is directly linked to a shopping mall (Tower City), 2 hotels (Renaissance & Ritz Carlton), Class A office space in both modern and architectural landmarks, and a train station with a direct rail access to a large regional airport.  No other city in North America has this connectivity potential.  Other cities can only dream of these kinds of development opportunities right here in the center of downtown!!!

 

The danger with all casino developments is their tendency to “cannibalize” other development efforts.  Dan Gilbert has certainly discussed the casino project complementing the rest of downtown, but these discussions need to be linked to more than just “talk”. 

 

Public transit needs to be part of the Casino’s development goals.  Improved and more frequent rapid transit service, downtown trolley service (e.g.,  to the Warehouse District, Playhouse Square, Rock Hall, Medical Mart, Flats) and a downtown station for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad (CVSR) in Tower City or the old B&O station on Canal Road would be enormous assets for the city, casino, and the entire metropolitan area. 

 

Proposals have been discussed for more than a decade for the CVSR station, and a number of logistical, operational, and funding issues have been noted. However, the casino project has to potential to be one of the keys to getting this accomplished and would be an example of a commitment not only to the casino but also the city of Cleveland. 

 

This is too important of a development for the City of Cleveland and entire metropolitan area of Cleveland to ignore.  The leadership of the city, casino, RTA, Tower City, and the CVSR need to work together to get this done. 

 

There are also discussions of this topic in the following posts....

 

Tower City Developments

Cuyahoga Scenic Railroad

Cleveland: B&O Terminal Building

 

Linking the river and railroad would be absolutely amazing!  I wonder if we can throw together a grass routes campaign to promote this idea to casino management.  Maybe if they know how much it is wanted they will change their tone (especially if we say something like... we'll use the casino more or whatnot)...  What's the best place for this topic since as mb11 mentioned, it's relevant in the tower city, casino, CVSR, RTA, lakefront, and other threads?

Wow, I just drove by the casino and saw the new lighting for the first time.  It looks AMAZING!  Coming off the highway down Ontario, you can see the Ontario/Prospect corner sticking up above the other buildings.  Driving down Ontario with the casino on your side is awesome.  The view of the casino from Public Square rocks.  It's amazing what a feeling of vitality lighting can create.  The Higbee building looks absolutely beautiful.

 

All buildings downtown should be lit up like this. 

I completely agree with the excitement/grandeur the lighting provides for the gem on Public Square.

What's the best place for this topic since as mb11 mentioned, it's relevant in the tower city, casino, CVSR, RTA, lakefront, and other threads?

 

Probably here....

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3566.0.html

 

Linking the river and railroad would be absolutely amazing!  I wonder if we can throw together a grass routes campaign to promote this idea to casino management. 

 

BTW, if you're going to start a campaign, call it a "grassroots" campaign. ;)

^ I knew it looked wrong but my brain was fried and I couldn't pinpoint the problem.  Thanks!!!!

Wow, I just drove by the casino and saw the new lighting for the first time.  It looks AMAZING!  Coming off the highway down Ontario, you can see the Ontario/Prospect corner sticking up above the other buildings.  Driving down Ontario with the casino on your side is awesome.  The view of the casino from Public Square rocks.  It's amazing what a feeling of vitality lighting can create.  The Higbee building looks absolutely beautiful.

 

All buildings downtown should be lit up like this. 

 

Agreed. The Renaissance should duplicate the exterior lighting and the tower needs similar lighting at least on the lower portion.

 

I second that.  I miss the tower lit top to bottom.

 

Wow, I just drove by the casino and saw the new lighting for the first time.  It looks AMAZING!  Coming off the highway down Ontario, you can see the Ontario/Prospect corner sticking up above the other buildings.  Driving down Ontario with the casino on your side is awesome.  The view of the casino from Public Square rocks.  It's amazing what a feeling of vitality lighting can create.  The Higbee building looks absolutely beautiful.

 

All buildings downtown should be lit up like this. 

 

Yeah, nice thought/touch, but who pays for it?  Company's are trying to be "green" and cut electricity cost, etc.  It's a nice thought, but in this day and age, I dont' think it's practical.

I also think that if every building was lit up this dramatically that destinations such as the casino wouldn't stand out. Now, that doesn't mean that other buildings shouldn't have any night lighting, but frankly in my opinion keeping the landmark attractions lit up with this level of attention whereas less important background buildings should be lit up with simple uplighting. Granted, the Renaissance should also receive such dramatic lighting.

 

I am super excited to see the casino all lit up in person next time I'm home. Sure will be exciting.

Rocco Whalen to open quick-service Italian restaurant in Horseshoe Casino

 

Chef-restaurateur Rocco Whalen landed the coveted third spot in the soon-to-open Horseshoe Casino in downtown Cleveland.

 

Rosie & Rocco’s will be a quick-service Italian themed restaurant with a menu emphasis on pizzas, home-style meatballs and sandwiches, antipasti, salads and desserts.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/04/rocco_whalen_to_open_quick-ser.html

I don't recall - have hours been established for the casino(s) yet? Cleveland? State-wide?

I don't recall - have hours been established for the casino(s) yet? Cleveland? State-wide?

 

i believe most assumed 24/7 operation. If they do have closing hours, that could be a real pain with everyone leaving at the same time. 

Rocco Whalen to open quick-service Italian restaurant in Horseshoe Casino

 

Chef-restaurateur Rocco Whalen landed the coveted third spot in the soon-to-open Horseshoe Casino in downtown Cleveland.

 

Rosie & Rocco’s will be a quick-service Italian themed restaurant with a menu emphasis on pizzas, home-style meatballs and sandwiches, antipasti, salads and desserts.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/04/rocco_whalen_to_open_quick-ser.html

[/quote

 

 

 

Not what I was hoping for but definitely seem like a good addition :-)

Rocco Whalen to open quick-service Italian restaurant in Horseshoe Casino

 

Chef-restaurateur Rocco Whalen landed the coveted third spot in the soon-to-open Horseshoe Casino in downtown Cleveland.

 

Rosie & Rocco’s will be a quick-service Italian themed restaurant with a menu emphasis on pizzas, home-style meatballs and sandwiches, antipasti, salads and desserts.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/04/rocco_whalen_to_open_quick-ser.html

 

Hey, didn't I predict that a few pages back? My sources come through again! :) Rocco is an awesome chef. I give the Horseshoe teams plenty of guff but I don't have any complaints about their food choices. All top notch places.

 

I don't know if this has been officially announced yet but Bernie Moreno's Collection Auto is buying the naming rights to the welcome center and parking structure. I have no idea if that's gonna include any outdoor advertising ala the Kia Parking Center but Collection signage will be very prevalent around the gift shop and valet area.

Would Gilbert be allowed to keep both phase 1 and phase 2 casinos open concurrently, or can he only have one?

both

After a Google search, I realized why I've never heard of Bernie Moreno's Collection Auto -- they're luxury cars! :)

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/12/luxury_car_sales_booming_at_be.html

Would Gilbert be allowed to keep both phase 1 and phase 2 casinos open concurrently, or can he only have one?

 

Sure. It would technically be the "same" casino.

Some guys lollygagging around the casino tonight, apparently there's not much more to be done... either that or they were on break

Whats with the Rocco bashing the the PD comments...sheesh

Some guys lollygagging around the casino tonight, apparently there's not much more to be done... either that or they were on break

 

You know what that makes you? Lollygaggers!

 

Whats with the Rocco bashing the the PD comments...sheesh

 

Were you hoping for them to turn over a new leaf/tree/forest?

I don't recall - have hours been established for the casino(s) yet? Cleveland? State-wide?

 

i believe most assumed 24/7 operation. If they do have closing hours, that could be a real pain with everyone leaving at the same time. 

 

I assumed that, too. But I haven't seen anything directly related to it (without having to actually go through what was voted on).

 

Ohio Constitution, Article XV, Section 6©, Paragraph 6:

 

"Casino gaming authorized in section 6© shall be conducted only by licensed casino operators of the four casino facilities or by licensed management companies retained by such casino operators. At the discretion of each licensed casino operator of a casino facility: (a) casino gaming may be conducted twenty four hours each day; and (b) a maximum of five thousand slot machines may be operated at such casino facility."

 

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/constitution.pdf

Ohio Constitution, Article XV, Section 6©, Paragraph 6:

 

"Casino gaming authorized in section 6© shall be conducted only by licensed casino operators of the four casino facilities or by licensed management companies retained by such casino operators. At the discretion of each licensed casino operator of a casino facility: (a) casino gaming may be conducted twenty four hours each day; and (b) a maximum of five thousand slot machines may be operated at such casino facility."

 

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/constitution.pdf

 

Thanks for doing the legwork!

 

Okay, we can all assume the casino owners would want to be open 24/7, right?

Thanks urbanomics. Much appreciated.

 

No problem.  I knew it had to be in there somewhere.

I don't recall - have hours been established for the casino(s) yet? Cleveland? State-wide?

 

i believe most assumed 24/7 operation. If they do have closing hours, that could be a real pain with everyone leaving at the same time. 

 

I assumed that, too. But I haven't seen anything directly related to it (without having to actually go through what was voted on).

 

 

Okay I was just thinking, it is really weird we haven't heard much on hours of operation. Isn't it a pretty big deal to have such an unprecedented 24 hour operation in the heart of the city? The large number of late/all night visitors should completely change the personality of downtown. I think the issue is ripe for a PD article.

^That is exactly what my little brain was thinking of when I first asked the question. Forget the PD, we can discuss and analyze the impacts here

I don't recall - have hours been established for the casino(s) yet? Cleveland? State-wide?

 

 

i believe most assumed 24/7 operation. If they do have closing hours, that could be a real pain with everyone leaving at the same time. 

 

I assumed that, too. But I haven't seen anything directly related to it (without having to actually go through what was voted on).

 

 

Okay I was just thinking, it is really weird we haven't heard much on hours of operation. Isn't it a pretty big deal to have such an unprecedented 24 hour operation in the heart of the city? The large number of late/all night visitors should completely change the personality of downtown. I think the issue is ripe for a PD article.

 

http://www.horseshoe.com/info/cleveland/careers_faq.html#5

^ thanks very informative! I'm actually more referring to mentions in the media about Cleveland becoming an all night destination. Should've been clearer.

Good point. I wonder if any businesses nearby are even contemplating that. Bars are still open til only 2:30 but i would expect many more to be open later more nights of the week.  Prob why twisted kilt is there and not applebees, as twisted kilt will go to 2:30am.  The reverse affect that the casino will likely be the after-hours place which could be damaging to the wallet and the waistline after a night of drinking.  The biggest change will then be a stronger nightlife downtown with more people employed to work longer hours throughout the week. Which will lead to surlier bartenders by the weekend. Perhaps food trucks will be part of after-hours mix. Maybe a 24 hr breakfast place will open on E4th.

Good point. I wonder if any businesses nearby are even contemplating that. Bars are still open til only 2:30 but i would expect many more to be open later more nights of the week.  Prob why twisted kilt is there and not applebees, as twisted kilt will go to 2:30am.  The reverse affect that the casino will likely be the after-hours place which could be damaging to the wallet and the waistline after a night of drinking.  The biggest change will then be a stronger nightlife downtown with more people employed to work longer hours throughout the week. Which will lead to surlier bartenders by the weekend. Perhaps food trucks will be part of after-hours mix. Maybe a 24 hr breakfast place will open on E4th.

 

Food trucks....yes!

 

Actually you're reminding me, I do remember hearing an all night diner is opening downtown but can't find the article.

 

Though the casino will be open 24 hours... does that mean that they are allowed to serve alcohol for 24 hours? 

No - they cannot.

However, it is really time for this law to be stricken. we all know the effects of binge drinking at closing time... well, most of us.

 

Though the casino will be open 24 hours... does that mean that they are allowed to serve alcohol for 24 hours?

 

No, service ends at 2:30am just like everyone else, and they are actually barred from giving out free drinks

 

"The Ohio chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving was among groups that pushed for strict alcohol standards at Ohio casinos. The law, signed by Gov. Ted Strickland on Thursday, bans both free drinks and 24-hour liquor sales at casinos, stopping them at 2:30 a.m., the same as bars." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37692840/ns/us_news-life/t/free-cocktails-dying-call-casinos/

 

^Thanks for clearing that up.  Does anyone know the laws concerning alcohol in other cities with casinos?  Are other cities like Detroit and New Orleans allowed to serve alcohol 24 hours a day?

The Indiana casinos have to follow the same state drinking laws as other establishments.

 

Also, when Atlantic City and Indiana opened, they had to close at 3 or 4am.  Eventually both states changed the rule and are now 24 hours.

The casino being open 24 hours has been referenced in multiple news articles.  Also, the casino is not outside the law and Ohio law (currently) prohibits giving away alcohol for free (ever wonder why you have to pay a quarter to get a sample at a supermarket?  It's not the supermarket trying to turn a profit) and prohibits bars being open past 2:30 - even bars in the casino.

 

What I think hasn't been covered is the parking pricing.  Will it be free?  If not, is that a deterrent  to patrons?  And if so, won't everyone just park there, not just casino customers?

I would assume if wouldn't be free unless you have a validated stamped ticket from the casino.

Garage patrons will probably have to get the ticket validated by a casino employee.

But what does that mean?  Just hand your parking ticket to someone who works at the casino?  Easy enough for someone who works at Tower City and isn't even spending any money at the casino.

Garage patrons will probably have to get the ticket validated by a casino employee.

 

Ive never experienced how that works so could you explain? Could I technically just walk in and get the ticket validated by the casino? Or spend one dollar on a slot machine and then get it validated?

Usually it involves a pit boss who will only validate it after some amount of play at a given table or slot machine.  I've seen pit bosses refuse to validate and asked the player to check back later.  Another way to do it would be to charge for parking, then refund it based on a level of play.

The casinos I've been to that charge for parking use a couple different ways to do validation. One is to show your players card when exiting. They will scan the card and if you've earned enough points, you get free parking. The other is to take your parking ticket inside and scan it in a validation machine which is sorta pointless since you don't have to play at all using that method. Another possibility is to charge everyone for parking during large events downtown or during a certain time period unless you're of a certain player level or you play a certain amount on that same day. Greektown does that in Detroit as does Rivers in Pittsburgh. Rivers charges $40 for parking during Steelers games but if you earn 250 points on that day, its completely reimbursed. Greektown's structure is only for higher tier players during the AM.

Good point. I wonder if any businesses nearby are even contemplating that. Bars are still open til only 2:30 but i would expect many more to be open later more nights of the week.  Prob why twisted kilt is there and not applebees, as twisted kilt will go to 2:30am.  The reverse affect that the casino will likely be the after-hours place which could be damaging to the wallet and the waistline after a night of drinking.  The biggest change will then be a stronger nightlife downtown with more people employed to work longer hours throughout the week. Which will lead to surlier bartenders by the weekend. Perhaps food trucks will be part of after-hours mix. Maybe a 24 hr breakfast place will open on E4th.

 

IIRC, KJP mentioned that Jake's on the corner of Ontario & S. Roadway was thinking of staying open either 24 hrs. or way into the morning hours.