April 27, 201213 yr This is from the West Side Transit Center thread. Maybe Downtown CLE alliance or HWD is purchasing the property? I was also there, the specs weree for 100 unit of housing. the design was pretty much a blank slate, the Warehouse district and Downtwn cleveland Alliance, brought the project to RTA DCA also paid for the consultant. much like the Westshore commuter Rail study RTA is taking a passive role and letting the community come to them, not investing much time and effort on project until considerable community demand warrants their involvement. Not wanting to be burned again by changing tides of local politics, it seems this is there new model. the issues with development in downtown are understood by DCA, warehouse district and RTA. in order for development of the parking lots to be profitable the land must be aquired and assembled at lower than market rates, in order for that to work eminent domain may be required, if not the acquisition cost would drive of the costs of the devleopment (remember Stark was planning 5-10 story buildings not the 3-4 story building that would be marketable in the Warehouse district.) The basic issue is the lots are valued too high to attract development that would be profitable in Cleveland. Maybe the threat of imminent Domain will facilitate the sale of lots at rates closer to what the county values the land. I think a similar situation to what the port did for the flat east bank., the RTA could do for the the Warehouse district.
April 27, 201213 yr The fact that something potentially is about to happen on that lot is thrilling but I am concerned about the Casino being involved... I hope we get this cleared up quick! The fact that the Casino is involved (is it...do we know this for sure) is not "thrilling". I cannot imagine that the something "happening" is nothing more than continued parking but for a specialized purpose. If the Casino is involved my hope is that they did not buy the property but have simply reached a "short term" deal with the property owner for temporary parking (again maybe for employees since it is surface, away a bit from the casino and not very glamorous) until the RTA development gets more traction (although that seemed very far away if I recalled).
April 27, 201213 yr But what about the property? Does the Rta have the option to buy? No. They cannot buy property unless the board OKs it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 28, 201213 yr :-o :wtf: From this article: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/downtown_cleveland_parking_tig.html "Marcus Glover, the casino's general manager, said Rock Ohio Caesars has leased a 320-space parking lot in the Warehouse District from the Asher family. The garage and the lot will offer free parking to casino guests who play for at least 30 minutes or meet certain thresholds in Caesars Entertainment Corp.'s customer-loyalty program. For nongamblers, the rates will jump. Glover wouldn't say how high. With parking operators describing the casino as "a special event every night," though, it would be no surprise to see daily rates of $20 or more near the casino. Rock Ohio Caesars also is negotiating to use 300 spaces in the area for overflow valet parking, if necessary. Glover would not identify the property, saying the deal is not done. That would put the casino in control of nearly 2,000 spaces, slightly fewer than the 2,100 slot machines in the gaming hall." Boooooo
April 28, 201213 yr ^And of course this steady stream of income for the parking lot owner makes it even more difficult for them to justify developing this "important" lot and makes it more expensive if a developer was interested in purchasing. I see this area being parking for years to come. Add this to the down side column in regards to the casino.
April 28, 201213 yr ^And of course this steady stream of income for the parking lot owner makes it even more difficult for them to justify developing this "important" lot and makes it more expensive if a developer was interested in purchasing. I see this area being parking for years to come. Add this to the down side column in regards to the casino. I've said it earlier in this thread, but IMO parking will also be ONE of the reasons that Phase II is a long way off. They cannot afford to lose that parking.
April 28, 201213 yr The only questionable element is if RTA is still building the transit center on this block of parking lot, is the casinos lease just temporary?
April 28, 201213 yr ^Yeah, would be interesting to know the lease term. I doubt it's long term, because that could seriusly tie the Ashers' hands if they want to cash in through selling it. ^And of course this steady stream of income for the parking lot owner makes it even more difficult for them to justify developing this "important" lot and makes it more expensive if a developer was interested in purchasing. I see this area being parking for years to come. Add this to the down side column in regards to the casino. I think that's definitely right in the near term, but maybe not in the medium in long term. Down the line, I wonder if the casino could end up being a partner with RTA for the transit center, maybe by committing to lease a chunk of the new parking, which would make it easier to finance. I imagine Rock Gaming would love to shift some of the parking for Phase I out of the garage complex currently under construction to free some of it up for Phase II.
April 28, 201213 yr My understanding is that Forest City Enterprises is driving the West Side Transit Center via the Historic Warehouse District, which has formally made the request to RTA to pursue it. The residential tower component, ironically, is above the land which FCE bought a year or two ago. Weston's land was to have the office component but that was dropped considering the soft market. FYI, RTA has eminent domain powers so it can acquire any property and terminate any lease in order to serve the public good, and as long as the owners/lessors are fairly compensated. But that adds time and expense, and I'm sure RTA would (as would anyone!) rather acquire such properties through negotiated agreements instead of court-ordered settlements. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 28, 201213 yr The large video billboard on the side of the garage is on now. Saw it on my run this morning!
April 29, 201213 yr Pictures please!! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 29, 201213 yr Thanks! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 29, 201213 yr Thanks for the pictures, was anything fun happening on it? The display board is actually really cool, and VERY high quality... It advertises the casino.. It shows the restaurants inside.. Then it advertises it's twitter, etc. - Probably a lot more. It's very viable from the highway. Also, the garage added a "Valet" sign up top, and also two horseshoes on the sides.
April 29, 201213 yr Also found this interesting but didn't know where to put it... Downtown Cleveland parking tightens up due to casino, other projects, but experts see no shortage CLEVELAND, Ohio -- To an urban casino, a new convention center and other Cleveland projects, add one more downtown development: It won't be as easy, or affordable, to find parking next door to your destination. In a downtown replete with parking -- 56,000 or so spaces -- major operators aren't predicting a shortage. Still, new attractions, more housing and a few additional office tenants promise to boost occupancy at parking facilities. Higher demand, plus the glitz of a new casino on Public Square, already are pushing rates up in some parts of a downtown that has grown comfortable with cheap parking. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/downtown_cleveland_parking_tig.html
April 29, 201213 yr Also found this interesting but didn't know where to put it... Downtown Cleveland parking tightens up due to casino, other projects, but experts see no shortage How about here? http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3594.msg616847.html#msg616847 Or here? ;) http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg616848.html#msg616848 BTW, I shortened the amount of text from the article you posted. It's best to keep it to three paragraphs or less. Many here prefer to keep it to a few sentences. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 30, 201213 yr osu4brutus03, just curious, do you work for the casino, or any Gilbert enterprise? Because, the welcome center is a parking garage that has taken one landmarked building, and about to take a second. I just do not see the "wow" factor of a parking garage. But, to each their own.
April 30, 201213 yr osu4brutus03, just curious, do you work for the casino, or any Gilbert enterprise? Because, the welcome center is a parking garage that has taken one landmarked building, and about to take a second. I just do not see the "wow" factor of a parking garage. But, to each their own. The building itself doesn't look bad. And the parking garage portion looks good for a parking garage. Yes we lost the Columbia building, but thats done with now. The new structure is looking better than expected. Hopefully the Stanley Block will be saved but you cant really blame the Casino. The owners have taken no action and let it rot for the last 30 years.
April 30, 201213 yr I agree that this parking garage deserves a WOW. It really looks great.. Sitting on the fact that we lost a building only presents the negative mentality you can find on Cleveland.com.. It is over with and this is GREAT progress...
April 30, 201213 yr I'm for saving old buildings and restoring them... and I admit I have not lived in cleveland for awhile, but I always remember that block being run down and an eyesore... my vote is for the welcome center...
April 30, 201213 yr I'm happy and relieved the garage and retail space are looking good and have totally moved on since the Columbia Bldg demo, but just to set the record straight... ^I don't believe the Columbia building was run down (beyond the normal wear and tear of about 3 years of vacancy due to the Casino plans) and ^^^^i don't think the casino folk are being unreasonable for wanting the Stanley block demoed, if that's what you mean by "blame", but they certainly share responsibility for the inevitable demo, in that they own a 50% stake in the building owner, and have been pushing for demo in that capacity.
April 30, 201213 yr The building is in terrible shape. I dont want it to be demolished. I will be mad if it gets demolished. But even if the casino wasn't pushing for it, the building would still end up demolished because of terrible pathetic ownership over the last several decades. Its a shame. Historic buildings, especially the oldest downtown, should not be disregarded like this and left to fall apart.
April 30, 201213 yr For the record, as everybody now knows, this attendant didnt have it quite right. The Casino interests are only 'leasing' this parking lot. ^ and ^^ This is not the Jacobs-owned parking lot on Public Square. It is the other that was a proposed RTA Transit Center just last fall(?). The signs are pretty cut and dry, even saying something to the effect that you're SOL if your car remains in the lot after Monday. The attendant said "the Casino bought it".
April 30, 201213 yr oh my GOD that is my parking lot they are closing. Where the F am I going to park now that takes a credit card every day. GREAT.
April 30, 201213 yr there is a horseshoe gift shop for sure. there is a pic on their facebook. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=348764768506254&set=a.313194578729940.66482.268283773221021&type=3&theater
April 30, 201213 yr For the record, as everybody now knows, this attendant didnt have it quite right. The Casino interests are only 'leasing' this parking lot. Pretty common. Low-level employees occasionally hear "something" that's worth checking out but often not worth quoting in a newspaper article. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 30, 201213 yr "oh my GOD that is my parking lot they are closing. Where the F am I going to park now that takes a credit card every day. GREAT." RnR - Not sure if you're serious because that seems awfully dramatic for a single parking lot closure... but the Crittenden garage takes credit cards daily and it's only a block West of this lot.
April 30, 201213 yr Crittenden is way too far for me to walk in dressy clothes and carrying all the stuff I have to carry to work. And farther away than a block - it's really a block north of this lot, and then 2 blocks west. Yes, I am serious. I spent a lot of time trying to find a parking lot that would work for me and this is the only one I've found that takes credit cards that is close by to my building.
April 30, 201213 yr Sorry to hear that :( Not sure if it helps, but you might try to using DCA's Downtown Navigator (http://www.downtownclevelandalliance.com/experience/downtown-navigator.aspx). You can pull up a map of available parking, but unfortunately, it looks like you have to go into their individual profiles to see if they take credit card ... But I see what you mean ... Many of them do not.
April 30, 201213 yr ^But you also have been a UO member long enough to know that the availability of these lots were subject to change/development. I would suggest finding another lot which offers monthly passes. That way you don't have to worry about paying each and every day.
April 30, 201213 yr I know, I know. Unfortunately, a monthly pass would be a waste of money for me. When I have to work overtime, which is more than a few times a month, I have to park in my building because you can only park in the lots til 6pm before getting a ticket. And when I have a doctor's appointment and am in late, I have to park wherever I can still find a spot downtown since my lot can fill up by 10. I have thought about buying a monthly but then I'm paying more on top of it when I have to park other places.
April 30, 201213 yr We have a living, breathing "statistical sample" of the tightening parking supply as a result of downtown's increased vibrancy! So how does it feel to be a statistical sample, RnR? :P "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 30, 201213 yr ^I'd feel much better if R and R was losing her parking space due to a "great development" on that lot rather than the simple shifting of parking from one person/group (officer wokers) to another (casino patrons).
April 30, 201213 yr General Casino question. Does anyone know if there is a big difference in taxation between casino profits, and parking profits? What I am asking is, can the welcome center, acting as its own business, charge the casino for parking? Thus a lot of revenue that would be taxed at the casino rate, will now be taxed as a parking rate. How could I find this out?
April 30, 201213 yr Sorry for my off-topic whining. It really is a conundrum for me. I have to figure something out.
April 30, 201213 yr Author Sorry for my off-topic whining. It really is a conundrum for me. I have to figure something out. You could always play the slots for 30 minutes and park there for FREE! :)
April 30, 201213 yr Author The Horseshoe Casino gift shop opens tomorrow at 10am. You can buy a t-shirt before you even go in for the first time! Wear it on opening day! :)
April 30, 201213 yr Author ^And of course this steady stream of income for the parking lot owner makes it even more difficult for them to justify developing this "important" lot and makes it more expensive if a developer was interested in purchasing. I see this area being parking for years to come. Add this to the down side column in regards to the casino. I've said it earlier in this thread, but IMO parking will also be ONE of the reasons that Phase II is a long way off. They cannot afford to lose that parking. I don't understand what parking they would lose with Phase 2. Phase 2 is going to include thousands of parking spaces that will be directly attached to the casino that they will own and control. If the casino leases the lot along Superior between West 3rd and West 6th and it doesn't hold up any potential RTA transit center development, I have no problem with it. That development is years off anyway. By the time that is ready to open, Phase 2 will be done. Weston (the Asher family) has said before that they want their lots to be developed, as seen here: http://www.cleveland.com/warehouseguide/index.ssf/2009/03/asher_family_rhode_island_deve.html The casino isn't tearing down buildings for these parking garages and they're not holding up development because they don't even own the lot. I don't think this is panic-worthy.
April 30, 201213 yr ^ And if the casino decides even more parking is needed (please no!), they now have a surface lot they can incrementally be filling in with structured parking (hopefully with ground-level retail at the very least :)), rather than having to demolish buildings to do so.
April 30, 201213 yr The Horseshoe Casino gift shop opens tomorrow at 10am. You can buy a t-shirt before you even go in for the first time! Wear it on opening day! :) Oh boy..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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