I really cannot wait to see the traffic Downtown. I'm going to avoid driving Downtown and go to a Park & Ride Location and jump on the rapid transit...walk through TowerCity Center, go over to the casino for about 2 maybe 3 hours... The opening is on a Monday I cannot imagine how many people will be out on the weekend

 

It will be fun and a chance to change "perceptions" about downtown, and explain that these things have been here for a while, we've just lost two generations of people expose to an urban experience.

 

What I can't wait to see is what happens 3, 6, 9 months and 1 year from now.  The first quarter and summer will most likely be higher but how will this casino really do?!

Thats a very interesting concept how things would be in the long run. I imagine the Downtown casino will continue to do well if the area can remain clean and safe...

Thats a very interesting concept how things would be in the long run. I imagine the Downtown casino will continue to do well if the area can remain clean and safe...

 

 

I think it's a no brainer it will be successful in the long run. You go to any casino around Ohio (PA, WV,NY,IN) the majority of the cars in the parking lots/garages have Ohio plates.

 

Also it can become even more successful if the downtown area continues to build off the recent developments and the med mart turns into a great success, lots of out of towners looking to kill some time while on business trips. I hope it works out well for Cleveland.

I have talked to countless suburbanites, some who havnt been downtown in who knows how long, and this is the first real attraction that they are willing and wanting to go downtown for.  I have a feeling opening day will b insane!

 

Let's just hope said suburbanites go for dinner/drinks on East 4th, WHD, PHS, etc and fall in love with downtown rather than bash it constantly.

 

ps- please note I am referring to suburbanites who before the casino had no desire to go downtown.  I know not all of those living in the suburbs hate/bash downtown.

There is no doubt in my mind that the lots closest to the casino will be developed within the next 5 years- specifically the vacant properties on the south side of Prospect and E. 4th, along with the huge parking lot between Prospect and Gateway.  Add in (at least parts of) the Warehouse/Parking-Lot District lots which could become too valuable to NOT develop on with the casino close by.  With the casino across the river from the Scranton Peninsula, along with downtown apartments being 97% leased- we might see plans for the Peninsula take shape (I know, that's wishful thinking but it's more viable now than before IMO).  I don't think I've been able to see downtown's future become this bright in my lifetime. 

As a Clevelander that moved away in 2003 for college and now planning to move back to the city. I'm thrilled about all the development going on not just in the Central District but all over . As a teenager my friends and I spent alot of time hanging out Downtown (mainly TowerCity, Arcade and the Galleria). I'm very excited for the Horseshoe Casino opening downtown. When I think about the other districts in the area I see Cleveland Downtown becoming more VIBRANT than ever.....Clevelanders can never say theres nothing to do...Unlimited options are all around the Greater Cleveland area

No-limit entertainment; The Horseshoe Casino’s entrance into Cleveland

http://www.sbnonline.com/2012/05/no-limit-entertainment-the-horseshoe-casinos-entrance-into-cleveland/?full=1

I'm really optimistic about how much downtown visitation the casino is going to drive, but I think we also should be cautious about overstating what it means for the city in the long run, particularly when 3 other casinos come online in the state and the geographic allure of our casino naturally shrinks a bit. Don't get me wrong ... I think it's going to be great ... I'd just caution that we tend to be a little starry-eyed on UrbanOhio, and we can look to the Galleria, Tower City and the Flats, maybe even North Coast and Gateway to a degree, as examples of one-use, stand-alone investments whose impact on downtown revitalization were positive but overstated.

 

I think our civic leadership is much more cognizant of integrating this investment into a broader multi-use, multi-impact strategy for downtown now than they were in the past, which should hopefully mean the casino has more of a positive impact than previous investments. Still ... New employment, new visitation, new tax revenue, yes. But also historic buildings being converted into a parking facility, the potential of a pedestrian bridge rising over Ontario, a wait-and-see approach to how we reconfigure Public Square based on traffic concerns, the entry of chain establishments into a district that until recently was defined by its all-local charm ... To say nothing about how people behave inside and outside downtown's first massive 24-hour establishment.

 

Jane Jacobs warns that cataclysmic investments of cash in a neighborhood can have all sorts of implications of unintended consequences and rash decision-making. Be optimistic, be cautious, be vigilant, UrbanOhioans :)

^Quite frankly I am, and have never been all that giddy about the casino and what it is going to do for Cleveland (downtown or the city as a whole although it will be nice to have an extra 20 mil or so in tax revenue) What the hell have casino's done for Detroit?

^As you kind of touched on above, the casinos in Detroit have brought in revenue that probably wouldn't have been generated had it not been for the casinos, like out of towners spending money there. Detroit's overall problems are too great for just those establishments to fix.

 

Same with Cleveland, the casino won't fix all of the other problems, most notably population decline and deteriorating housing stock and neighborhoods, but it can be a co-anchor of a now much larger entertainment district that will attract more spinoff investment. The casino and environs will be the center of a place where if you don't have anything to do you can randomly go to this area and find something. I think that type of neighbohood that is being created is what I'm most excited about.

I'm really optimistic about how much downtown visitation the casino is going to drive, but I think we also should be cautious about overstating what it means for the city in the long run, particularly when 3 other casinos come online in the state and the geographic allure of our casino naturally shrinks a bit. Don't get me wrong ... I think it's going to be great ... I'd just caution that we tend to be a little starry-eyed on UrbanOhio, and we can look to the Galleria, Tower City and the Flats, maybe even North Coast and Gateway to a degree, as examples of one-use, stand-alone investments whose impact on downtown revitalization were positive but overstated.

 

I think our civic leadership is much more cognizant of integrating this investment into a broader multi-use, multi-impact strategy for downtown now than they were in the past, which should hopefully mean the casino has more of a positive impact than previous investments. Still ... New employment, new visitation, new tax revenue, yes. But also historic buildings being converted into a parking facility, the potential of a pedestrian bridge rising over Ontario, a wait-and-see approach to how we reconfigure Public Square based on traffic concerns, the entry of chain establishments into a district that until recently was defined by its all-local charm ... To say nothing about how people behave inside and outside downtown's first massive 24-hour establishment.

 

Jane Jacobs warns that cataclysmic investments of cash in a neighborhood can have all sorts of implications of unintended consequences and rash decision-making. Be optimistic, be cautious, be vigilant, UrbanOhioans :)

The three other casinos coming online don't have the amenities we have, this is being built into the existing fabric of the city.  We're already a leg up based on our current amenities and have a Hub Airport.    Come on 8shades, we're not starry-eyed (and I know you don't mean that as a dig) we're realistic.  This will renew interest in Downtown and Cleveland as a whole.  Also, this isn't a One-Use situation as its using pre-existing building space with a lot of connectivity.  This isn't a silver bullet to cure all our ales, but another positive to build upon.  And helps diversify our economy and build our tourist, and related, industry.

 

The pedestrian bridge, PS reconfiguration I agree we'll have to take a wait and see approach.  Granted I think we should be vocal and give a strong "hell no" to the bridge!

 

^Quite frankly I am, and have never been all that giddy about the casino and what it is going to do for Cleveland (downtown or the city as a whole although it will be nice to have an extra 20 mil or so in tax revenue) What the hell have casino's done for Detroit?

 

You cannot compare Detroit's casino to ours.  Those were built on the fringe and emulate a Vegas style, suck them in and keep them mentality.  Ours is one Casino, that is woven into the existing city pattern.  There is no hotel, entertainment venue, spa or full service restaurant attached.  It's using our existing venues and our existing venues are using the Casino to market to potential new customers.

 

Lets hope they all put their best foot forward to show the world things are up and coming in Cleveland and we can do "big" like any other big city.

The three other casinos coming online don't have the amenities we have, this is being built into the existing fabric of the city.  We're already a leg up based on our current amenities and have a Hub Airport.    Come on 8shades, we're not starry-eyed (and I know you don't mean that as a dig) we're realistic.  This will renew interest in Downtown and Cleveland as a whole.  Also, this isn't a One-Use situation as its using pre-existing building space with a lot of connectivity.  This isn't a silver bullet to cure all our ales, but another positive to build upon. 

 

I don't question this. Truth. Our casino will fill a niche not offered by any nearby casino in terms of urban integration. I just think some of the recent comments have been a little Pollyanna about just how quickly and how well this will magnify the renaissance of downtown. Just don't want us to lose sight of the fact that the biggest gains for city building tend to be in the small, decentralized, multi-tenant, multi-use developments ... I'm personally much more excited about CSU-steered investment or Uptown or the West 25th storefront work than I am in the casino for long-term growth prospects. And I also want to remind everyone to be vigilant about what the casino means for decision-making downtown. Understandably, the city is interested in expediting decision-making to make sure the casino is a success. But the result is that we've had some serious shifts in how fast the urban fabric can change, with the valet center being a primary example. Without reigniting a historic building v. welcome center debate, that decision was made in next to no time. Not does this fit into a 10-year plan? Can we build taller instead of wider? Decision made. Buildings gone. New buildings up. So my larger point is that people need to critically assess everything related to the casino and be willing to advocate, assemble, write letters at a moment's notice on behalf of anything that impacts surrounding streets. And as keepers of all things urban, those foot soldiers need to be us :) Not trying to deflate enthusiasm ... Just keepin' it real.

^what he said.  many good points.

^^I totally agree with all of that.  I know it's not the same but FWIW, I do think there are some parallels with Gateway's opening in the mid 1990s.  It definitely helped spur a little more hotel development, attracted a few new bars, and I guess solidified downtown as a regional attraction for entertainment, but its affects on downtown as a whole disappointed some people. We really don't know yet how the casino is going to affect the city.  The good or the bad.

Yes, but Gateway was not a 24/7/365 development.  And, its success depends a lot on how well the Cavs and Indians are doing.

 

Even so, Gateway doesn't disappoint me.  You don't know what the downtown environment would have been like without it.  Would East 4th Street exist as we know it without Gateway?  And would other projects, such as The Residences at 668, have happened without East 4th?  Would companies like Rosetta relocate to where they did without East 4th?  Would restaurants like Hodge's have come downtown?  Etc, etc...

 

Gateway's impact was good as will be the casino's.  And we didn't have to use tax dollars to fund it.

^Quite frankly I am, and have never been all that giddy about the casino and what it is going to do for Cleveland (downtown or the city as a whole although it will be nice to have an extra 20 mil or so in tax revenue) What the hell have casino's done for Detroit?

 

Detroit is a poor comparison.  First, Detroit turned to gambling out of despertion; it's downtown was tremendously weak and losing revenue across the river (and national boundary) to Windsor, ONT, which has had gambling for decades.  Downtown Cleveland, even before the casino, is considerably stronger, more vibrant and more versitle than downtown Detroit (look no farther than downtown Cleveland's 10,000+ residence and 98% occupancy rate)...Secondly, consider the location and access to the casinos... Dan Gilbert correctly commented that Detroit's casino's, the exception of the smaller Greektown Casino + hotel, are at the fringes of downtown Detroit -- too far to impact the improving, but still struggling downtown Detroit.  Cleveland's Horseshoe, as it's been pointed out many times, is at the core of downtown, with superior infastructure: the casino will be built into a gigantic multi-use/air-rights complex connected to rail transit (the hub and direct connection to the airport via the Red line), 2 hotels, a huge shopping mall, an 11-screen movie theatre, an NBA basketball arena and an MLB baseball stadium... not to mention over  2 Million sq. ft. of office space -- all essentially under 1 roof. 

 

No casino, to date, will have these advantages... So Detroit's situation is not really comparable to Cleveland's at all.

^^I agree with all that; i'm not disappointed by Gateway either.  The point is that even if Gateway indirectly contributed to 668 Euclid, it also took a new state preservation subsidy program, the Euclid Corridor, and 15 years to get it done. The casino is just another piece to the puzzle (albeit a large one), not necessarily some huge sudden game changer for all of downtown.

I agree Strap, the casino is one piece to Cleveland's larger downtown puzzle... One thing we can't overlook is that, regardless of the use, it is a huge leap forward for downtown to take a key building at the center of town, as Higbee's is, and convert it from a crumbling, empty derelict, into a (once again) busy edifice.  No, it's not the swanky department store we all wanted and what it used to be -- not by a longshot -- but just the visual coming down Prospect or up Ontario, of a huge, elegant grand dame as the Higbee's building brought back to life, and bathed in amber floodlights, is stunning and invigorating in and of itself.

^Quite frankly I am, and have never been all that giddy about the casino and what it is going to do for Cleveland (downtown or the city as a whole although it will be nice to have an extra 20 mil or so in tax revenue) What the hell have casino's done for Detroit?

 

Detroit is a poor comparison.  First, Detroit turned to gambling out of despertion; it's downtown was tremendously weak and losing revenue across the river (and national boundary) to Windsor, ONT, which has had gambling for decades.  Downtown Cleveland, even before the casino, is considerably stronger, more vibrant and more versitle than downtown Detroit (look no farther than downtown Cleveland's 10,000+ residence and 98% occupancy rate)...Secondly, consider the location and access to the casinos... Dan Gilbert correctly commented that Detroit's casino's, the exception of the smaller Greektown Casino + hotel, are at the fringes of downtown Detroit -- too far to impact the improving, but still struggling downtown Detroit.  Cleveland's Horseshoe, as it's been pointed out many times, is at the core of downtown, with superior infastructure: the casino will be built into a gigantic multi-use/air-rights complex connected to rail transit (the hub and direct connection to the airport via the Red line), 2 hotels, a huge shopping mall, an 11-screen movie theatre, an NBA basketball arena and an MLB baseball stadium... not to mention over  2 Million sq. ft. of office space -- all essentially under 1 roof. 

 

No casino, to date, will have these advantages... So Detroit's situation is not really comparable to Cleveland's at all.

 

Great post!  I am not here to list the advantages that downtown Cleveland has over Detroit or Pittsburgh, but I know the casino has made it a point to let everyone know of the great districts and entertainment options downtown Cleveland has to offer whether it be Playhouse Square, the Warehouse, etc.  The casino is my least favorite development happening right now in Cleveland and that doesn't mean I hate it, but I feel there are other projects going on that will affect the city more positively than some casino.  It looks great though, and can't wait to be up there when it is open.

I went to Detroit just a week or two ago, just to wander around the area near Greektown Casino.  I noticed a lot more restaurants and bars within the surrounding area than were there a few years ago, so it seems that it has driven some vibrancy to the area.  The new stadiums are definitely helping, too. I do worry that Greektown won't be "Greek" for too much longer, though.  Most of the newer places seemed pretty chain-y.  The Casino itself wasn't well laid out to get in and out of to the neighborhood.  It was difficult to find the main entrance, though if you know where it is, it shouldn't be so much of a problem.

^The Greektown is by far the best-placed and most impactful of Detroit's 3 casinos albeit the smallest... Yeah, when I went to Detroit last winter, it seemed Greektown was becoming Greek in name only and that the chains were creeping in.  I'd hate to see it totally lose it's Greek heritage.

Tilted Kilt messages were moved to a new thread at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,27306.0.html

One other great benefit of the casino: it is an ammenity that convention planners look for.  What gives Cleveland a leg up, is that the casino, and most of the major tourist attractions that the planners look for are within a mile of the CC.

I was at the Indians game last night and the guys next to us asked how late the garage up the street (not even sure which one they were asking about) was open.  We asked what they meant and they said "we're going to the casino after the game and want to make sure we can get our car out later."  They were Indians fans but I don't think they were from the Cleveland area (they asked if we were from Cleveland before asking about the garage) but said they had seen ads and thought the casino was open, so it may be attracting people downtown before it's even open!

Cleveland police make presence felt on Public Square in advance of casino opening (gallery)

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The opening of the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland is still a week away, but beefed-up police patrols already are trying to discourage loitering in nearby Public Square, an area frequented by panhandlers and homeless people. Once the casino opens on May 14, additional officers will work the square and Terminal Tower -- the busiest hub in the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority system -- as thousands of casino visitors and thousands of riders cross paths.

 

The goal is to make sure visitors are safe while respecting the rights of others who use Public Square. Police administrators, casino officials and advocates for the homeless and mentally ill say that will require planning and sensitivity. In a move to deter crime, police began stationing a patrol car in front of Tower City in November. The presence seems to have helped reduce loitering, said Lt. George Seroka, officer in charge of the department's expanded 38-member Downtown Services Unit.

 

Public Square is not the magnet it once was for people looking to take drugs, sleep or even bathe in the fountain, said Helena Miller of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a business-funded group that deploys safety monitors and cleanup crews on downtown streets. She said an overnight curfew imposed by the city and efforts by the alliance's "ambassadors" have discouraged or helped relocate those who made the space their home.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/05/cleveland_police_make_presence.html#incart_hbx

I hope they do more because I was walking through PS yesterday and there are tons of busted pavers and trash in the fountains, etc.  On the bright side, the welcome center is actually pretty nice and the gift shop has some nice things although I expected it to be a little bigger.  Still I think its a nice addition and its open until 1:30AM on Friday and Saturday!  The more 24 hour or late openings the better!

 

FAbulous pictures.

 

I already went in and supported the gift shop. Fyi, a friend with me bought a pack of cigarettes in the gift shop...$10.35.

Airport prices!

I think the casino will help out the city no matter what. This isn't Detroit, each situation is different. And how could it get worse than it was before? This line in the above article was all it took to remind me of why I ALWAYS avoided Public Square:

 

"Public Square is not the magnet it once was for people looking to take drugs, sleep or even bathe in the fountain, said Helena Miller of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance".

 

Homeless people bathing in the fountain. It would take a massive failure on our city's part for this casino to do worse than that...

$10 WHEW

 

The street lamps have been replaced at the main W. Prospect entrance, I can rest easy... And the marquees(?) are getting a facelift

 

 

 

 

They have really been working inside the Stanley and all the glass windows have been replaced with plastic. If I was betting, I'd say they are not getting a demolition permit this coming Sunday

 

 

 

E. 2nd street getting repaved today

 

 

 

This is PS side, where Higbee Bldg meets the TT. Awesome message

 

 

Thanks!

Thanks Clueless.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate all your photo updates (and everyone else's too!)

 

E. 2nd street getting repaved today

 

 

 

 

Glad to see some repaving getting done down in that area!!!  :clap:  :clap:

"...IN A LEGENDARY CITY"...

 

I LOVE IT!

I think the casino will help out the city no matter what. This isn't Detroit, each situation is different. And how could it get worse than it was before? This line in the above article was all it took to remind me of why I ALWAYS avoided Public Square:

 

"Public Square is not the magnet it once was for people looking to take drugs, sleep or even bathe in the fountain, said Helena Miller of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance".

 

Homeless people bathing in the fountain. It would take a massive failure on our city's part for this casino to do worse than that...

 

I think such comments are an exaggeration.  If someone bathed in the fountain, it was rare -- I sure as hell never saw it. (I've seen more middle-class, frat boy types peeing against buildings in the WHD than anything similar by homeless people; not to say all homeless are saints).  And as for drug sales, ditto.  I passed through PS and waited for buses there daily, and never saw such activities.  Random drug sales can happen anywhere.  Anyone could be an undercover cop, so anyone openly selling drugs is a fool.  Were/are there homeless people on the Square?  Sure.  There also are homeless people soliciting at E. 4th, Ohio City and the WHD (to name a few)... It's a big city.  Get over it or stick to South Park or (name the homogeneous) mall in the burbs... Obviously, with a whole lot of people walking around with a whole lot of $$$$ at all hours of the day (and night) in the center of town (at the center of its transit hub), heightened security is a must.  But let's not go off the deep end about how horrible PS is (just b/c certain people either may not like the Square's design or, more hideously, the people who catch buses there). 

 

Remember the name: it is a PUBLIC Square, and we need to be careful of pre-determining who does and who doesn't have a right to be there, so long as they are law abiding -- in other words, law enforcement officials, leave your stereotypes at home.  I realize the casino is a big deal for the City with a lot of potential for things to go wrong.  But amping up fears (I don't mean UOers) will be counter productive.

I hate the argument, "You dont like crime, trash, drug sales, panhandlers, etc., then go live in "name any suburb""

What If I want an urban walkable neighborhood, with great architecture and culture, and access to public transportation. What if I hate the layout of car depended suburbs? Why do people who want to live in that urban place have to deal with all the crap?

 

And im not saying I necessarily think Public Square is, but that argument annoys me.

Casino looks fantastic!

This may be a little painful for some...the good news is that the casino opens in 6 days

 

Horseshoe Casino Cleveland's new welcome center ready to open after a few bumps along the way

 

CLEVELAND - It can be said that a parking garage is simply, from deck to deck, one long and winding road. For the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland’s new garage and welcome center that’s a heading that applies for more than one reason.

 

The effort to build the valet center along Ontario Street was one filled with twists, turns and occasional setbacks.

 

The facility, which will be named the Collection Auto Group Centre when it opens with the casino on May 14, features an additional 340 parking spots and a gift shop with more amenities on the way.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/horseshoe-casino-clevelands-new-welcome-center-ready-to-open-after-a-few-bumps-along-the-way

^Sounds like the skywalk to the "Collection auto group welcome center" is a matter of when, not if

I just saw NewsNet5's report about the casino tonight and it looks like there are trees? So the trees are a go then?

A 24/7 diner??  :-D It gets better!  I want to hear 24/7 more and more  :clap:

So they sold the naming rights???  http://www.collectionautogroup.com/

 

^Sounds like the skywalk to the "Collection auto group welcome center" is a matter of when, not if

 

That would be the "Collection Auto Group Centre"  :speech:

At this point I am totally OK if the Stanley survives. But is it possible the owners can quickly remove that 1970`s facade that adorns the front of it. Including the Barbara Anne Bridal Shoppe sign that should have been taken down about 30 years ago. The fact it has never been removed tells us everything we need to know about the current slum landlords. If that comes down and the windows are replaced, the front of the building cleaned, they can continue to work on the inside. Unbelievable.

^The current "slum landlords" include the casino

 

Thanks Clueless.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate all your photo updates (and everyone else's too!)

 

Thanks, Strap

 

 

 

 

That would be the "Collection Auto Group Centre"  :speech:

 

It would go well with the Barbara Anne Bridal Shoppe.

Seriously, I agree that that old storefront should come down ASAP.

 

 

A 24/7 diner??  :-D It gets better!  I want to hear 24/7 more and more  :clap:

 

I agree...sounds good  :clap:

Isn't there an entrance to the casino in TC? What does that look like and is there signage?

Isn't there an entrance to the casino in TC? What does that look like and is there signage?

 

Yes and yes.  There are two entrances I think, one on the PS level right next to the main PS entrance, just inside, and one on the level below public square that I think goes into their Food Court.  There is a ton of signage in TC directing people to the Casino as well. 

I'm sure someone has covered this already, but I always assumed May 14th was a Friday or Saturday.  I checked the calender earlier this week and it's a Monday.  Have they (Gilbert/Caesars) given any reason why they wouldn't do a Grand Opening Extravaganza on the weekend?  It seems a little strange to open on a Monday.  Maybe to be sure there's no bumps on the first few days?

^ that would be my guess. A "soft" opening of sorts.

 

Or it could be that was the earlist they were able to open. Instead of loosing revenue and waiting till Friday to open, eventhough the state is allowing them to open on Monday.

^Sounds like the skywalk to the "Collection auto group welcome center" is a matter of when, not if

 

You're correct.  According to a Thomas Ott PD article this morning, Rock Ohio is appealing the loss of FCE's potential federal tax credit loss, due to the skyway's alteration of the historic Higbee's building facade.