So no matter how badly gilbert may or may not want a temporary casino it's a moot point.  I believe the timetable has that legislation passing sometime in June.

 

Ok, so the end of June is 6 weeks away.  It's going to take longer than six weeks to build out that Higbees space, hire and train people, etc.  Couldn't they do all that stuff before so they could just open for business the day after this passes?  It's currently illegal to operate a casino in Ohio, but you could still build a temporary one and wait.

I for one am not sure of the legality of that... but it also wouldn't make sense for them to do anything until they have an operator on board, which they haven't contracted yet.

Casino bill up against deadline

 

The bill also is likely to include provisions that would allow casino operators — in particular Rock Ventures, which has announced plans for a $600 million Cleveland casino — to begin temporary operations before construction of the permanent casinos can be completed. Rep. Yuko said he hopes Rock Ventures will open what he called a “Phase One” casino in the Higbee Building in downtown Cleveland that can operate until 2013, when the permanent casino is scheduled to open.

 

I posted this article in the general Casino discussion as well.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100510/SUB1/305109985/1006/FIN

 

 

Can you post a version that we can read? when you click on the link it syas you have to be a member

Can you post a version that we can read? when you click on the link it syas you have to be a member

We don't post full articles on this site anymore.

Casino bill up against deadline

 

The bill also is likely to include provisions that would allow casino operators — in particular Rock Ventures, which has announced plans for a $600 million Cleveland casino — to begin temporary operations before construction of the permanent casinos can be completed. Rep. Yuko said he hopes Rock Ventures will open what he called a “Phase One” casino in the Higbee Building in downtown Cleveland that can operate until 2013, when the permanent casino is scheduled to open.

 

I posted this article in the general Casino discussion as well.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100510/SUB1/305109985/1006/FIN

 

 

 

Can you give a summary of the article since many of us cant read it?

In all honesty when I first viewed this article it was free because I didn't have a subscription either. Maybe I can try to find another source or something.

Higbee Building being considered as temporary site for Cleveland casino

By Joan Mazzolini, The Plain Dealer

May 14, 2010, 7:00AM

 

With Tom Breckenridge

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Higbee Building next to Tower City is emerging as the location for an early version of Cleveland's casino.

 

Casino developer Dan Gilbert confirmed in a statement Thursday that his group, Rock Ventures, was investigating a "phase one" casino on the site.

 

"Rock Ventures is in the later stages of due diligence of the downtown Cleveland Casino which includes finalizing a long-term agreement with a gaming operator as well as the ongoing evaluation of a "phase one" gaming operation within the Higbee building," Gilbert said through his spokeswoman.

 

"Although neither of these major decisions have been finalized, we are making significant progress on both of these fronts," he said

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/05/higbee_building_being_consider.html

 

I think the Higbee building would be a great location for a permanent casino, let alone a temporary one.

For so many reasons, the Higbee building just makes so much sense.

Agreed.  A permanent casino in the Higbee building would help bridge the gap between E 4th and W 6th.

Using the Higbee building would be ideal!  If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building? 

 

I like this!!

Using the Higbee building would be ideal! If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building?

 

I like this!!

 

I agree...  It already has an ornate first floor (from what i remember) and is part of the larger beaux arts tower city complex.  It could invoke Monte Carlo as an inspiration as opposed to some pre-fab box that's it's likely to be.

Using the Higbee building would be ideal!  If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building? 

 

I like this!!

 

I agree...  It already has an ornate first floor (from what i remember) and is part of the larger beaux arts tower city complex.  It could invoke Monte Carlo as an inspiration as opposed to some pre-fab box that's it's likely to be.

 

And the Silver Grill as a restaurant.  That alone would be worth the trip!

Using the Higbee building would be ideal!  If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building? 

 

I like this!!

 

I agree...  It already has an ornate first floor (from what i remember) and is part of the larger beaux arts tower city complex.  It could invoke Monte Carlo as an inspiration as opposed to some pre-fab box that's it's likely to be.

 

And the Silver Grill as a restaurant.  That alone would be worth the trip!

 

OMG!  I forgot about the Silver Grill.  If I remember, Higbees used sterling flatware (not silverplate) and linens.  Wasn't there are gazebo in the center? 

Using the Higbee building would be ideal!  If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building? 

 

I like this!!

 

I agree...  It already has an ornate first floor (from what i remember) and is part of the larger beaux arts tower city complex.  It could invoke Monte Carlo as an inspiration as opposed to some pre-fab box that's it's likely to be.

 

And the Silver Grille as a restaurant.  That alone would be worth the trip!

 

OMG!  I forgot about the Silver Grille.  If I remember, Higbees used sterling flatware (not silverplate) and linens.  Wasn't there are gazebo in the center? 

 

Yep the place was old school grandeur.  You're dining Etiquette had to be on-point to eat there.  If not, the hostess' and wait staff would give the "you dont belong here" look.  And that was at LUNCH!  The Silver Grille could be made into a very nice space AGAIN.

 

The "gazebo" was around the reflecting pool.

 

Using the Higbee building would be ideal!  If the Higbee building is "Phase 1" of the $600 Million project... I wonder how much of the monies will go towards renovation of the Higbee building? 

 

I like this!!

 

I agree...  It already has an ornate first floor (from what i remember) and is part of the larger beaux arts tower city complex.  It could invoke Monte Carlo as an inspiration as opposed to some pre-fab box that's it's likely to be.

 

And the Silver Grille as a restaurant.  That alone would be worth the trip!

 

OMG!  I forgot about the Silver Grille.  If I remember, Higbees used sterling flatware (not silverplate) and linens.  Wasn't there are gazebo in the center? 

 

Yep the place was old school grandeur.  You're dining Etiquette had to be on-point to eat there.  If not, the hostess' and wait staff would give the "you dont belong here" look.  And that was at LUNCH!  The Silver Grille could be made into a very nice space AGAIN.

 

The "gazebo" was around the reflecting pool.

 

 

Thanks for the memory..... I also remember the old Stouffer chain in Cleveland.  Sit-down china service. 

 

yes, the more I think about it i really like the idea of Higbees as a permanent casino - though I don't know the practicalities involved.

One other really interesting development I see potentially coming out of this.  I'm still not sure I full understand the legalities of a phase 1 casino, and if that means that it would always have to permanently be in the higbees building... or after the full buildout behind tower city they could cease operations in there.  While agree that being permanent would make for a beautiful destination casino... the fact that they are clearing out the first and 2nd floor tennants means something else.  It means that if they do build out the casino behind and attached to TC, the first 2 floors and the basement of Higbees would be vacant. And with a huge people generator like the casino.  We may have just solved one of the biggest problems in downtown.  The fact that there was no where to put a department store.  Assuming FC would be interested in remaking TC with the addition of the casino, they would no longer have to pay to build a new department store off the back... they could just move them right in to the higbees space.

One other really interesting development I see potentially coming out of this. I'm still not sure I full understand the legalities of a phase 1 casino, and if that means that it would always have to permanently be in the higbees building... or after the full buildout behind tower city they could cease operations in there. While agree that being permanent would make for a beautiful destination casino... the fact that they are clearing out the first and 2nd floor tennants means something else. It means that if they do build out the casino behind and attached to TC, the first 2 floors and the basement of Higbees would be vacant. And with a huge people generator like the casino. We may have just solved one of the biggest problems in downtown. The fact that there was no where to put a department store. Assuming FC would be interested in remaking TC with the addition of the casino, they would no longer have to pay to build a new department store off the back... they could just move them right in to the higbees space.

 

Excellent point.  A casino/enterainment venue might just make tower city retail viable again. 

One other really interesting development I see potentially coming out of this.  I'm still not sure I full understand the legalities of a phase 1 casino, and if that means that it would always have to permanently be in the higbees building... or after the full buildout behind tower city they could cease operations in there.  While agree that being permanent would make for a beautiful destination casino... the fact that they are clearing out the first and 2nd floor tennants means something else.  It means that if they do build out the casino behind and attached to TC, the first 2 floors and the basement of Higbees would be vacant. And with a huge people generator like the casino.  We may have just solved one of the biggest problems in downtown.  The fact that there was no where to put a department store.  Assuming FC would be interested in remaking TC with the addition of the casino, they would no longer have to pay to build a new department store off the back... they could just move them right in to the higbees space.

 

Excellent point.  A casino/enterainment venue might just make tower city retail viable again. 

 

Hell isn't that what Forest City has been promising all along?  If they got a casino / convention center they would improve the retail offerings at Tower City!  Correct?

Silver Grill is still open for private parties.

Silver Grill is still open for private parties.

 

True.  My neice was gonig to have her Quincenera there, but the R-C wanted more than what the room was worth.

 

I hope the Silver Grille reverts to a public dining space.

 

 

I have a question: if the casino is so incredibly successful in the Higbee's building that a permanent site at Huron and Ontario isn't big enough, might Gilbert be legally allowed to operate both the Higbee's site and the so-called permanent site at the same time? Sort of a Casino and an Casino Annex?

 

And I often wonder about the possibility of a hotel becoming part of this. The obvious locations to me are where the Lebron "Witness" banner is hanging now (may not be hanging there much longer anyway! -- sorry, couldn't resist), and of course the Jacobs parking lot on Public Square.

Folks, we have a retail thread already - if certain people can't stay on topic in this thread, suspensions will be handed out.

I'll be sad to see Positively Cleveland move from Public Square.  I thought that was a good location for them - much better than being shoved out of eyesight way up into the Terminal Tower where they were before.

There are plenty of other prominent vacant storefronts they could take up.

Im thinking Ameritrust for a few years

The rotunda?  That would be awesome!  Since the county already owns it, they should be able to work out a good deal, too.

Im thinking Ameritrust for a few years

 

That's perfect!  Make it so.

Some good opinion..

 

 

Cleveland needs a casino while it awaits its casino: editorial

By The Plain Dealer Editorial Board

May 18, 2010, 4:36AM

 

"Win-win" isn't a phrase that pops up much in the gambling game, but that's exactly what opening a temporary casino in the Higbee Building could be for downtown Cleveland and its residents.

 

A "Phase 1, Come and Get a Taste of the Real Deal" would offer a rightly cynical citizenry tangible proof of progress toward building a $600 million, high-end, high-roller house of chance here -- not by 2011, as developer Dan Gilbert first promised, but by 2013.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_needs_a_casino_while.html

My thoughts on the CVB would be for the casino people to pay 100% of the relocation costs, since there are only a few consitutionally mandated spots they can put it.  I am not sure what shape the Ameritrust tower is in, but if it can be quickly brought up to code, make the casino pay for it.

 

Now the CVB is fighting the loss of part of the bed tax that the county and MMPI say it should go to convention center.  By having them in the facility owned by the county, they could either cut them a good deal, to offset the loss of revenue, or have the rent money go to the convention center.

 

If it works out, the county would then have a viable building to sell, or to make it the county HQ building once the temporary casino leaves.

 

 

there is below a 0% chance of moving into ameritrust.  Sorry, but it just wouldn't make any sense what so ever to move mmmmaaayyybeee 2 floors worth of employees into a 30 story building that doesn't even have a lobby.  And spending the money building out a completely new lobby for 1 - 2 floors worth of employees is crazy.  And why would the county even want such a thing.  If they build out a lobby for an office building, the space becomes immensly less desirable for a buyer who intends a different use, it would require even more money spent on the project.  And please don't get me started on the rotunda, using the rotunda to house both of these businesses would require significant alteration.  If the rotunda gets defiled for some "temporary" use I'll be a very unhappy clevelander.  And if it isn't temporary... again, you've just made the entire property less valuable and viable to develop as the rotunda would no longer be included.

 

There is tons of space around the city they could go, I doubt the ameritrust space even gets consideration.  I think its a nonstarter.

^I was thinking maybe they could be the first to post up in the lonely stretch between E.9th and E.14th... but I doubt that would create any spin-off.  I'm sure there's a storefront left between Public Square and E.9th along Euclid which they could fill easily.

  If the rotunda gets defiled for some "temporary" use I'll be a very unhappy clevelander.  And if it isn't temporary... again, you've just made the entire property less valuable and viable to develop as the rotunda would no longer be included.

 

are you saying no sort of temporary display would be ok with you? temporary anything?

 

IF that is in fact what you are saying, that attitude could hold this city back immensely. Here in Paris there are structures, displays, art, you name it that is designed ALL the time which is put up among historical centers. Dealing with intervention of new sculpture/architecture is how we grow as a city and its a necessity to include it no matter what happens with this casino. New things are going to be built around old things, fact of life. Sorry to steer it off topic, and maybe I am overreacting, but as long as it is truly temporary, we should encourage exhibits and new attention to a beautiful old landmark that is fairly neglected by most of the population.

 

though I do agree that ameritrust is the wrong location, but i think you are close by!

 

prefect place? the bank lobby of the huntington building. They are moving tenants out correct? What if that lobby became a casino MAN would that be gorgeous, paid attention to, and provide a class-act casino.. plus the funds would then be available to make sure it stays pretty for a long time. Just a thought.

This thread is getting a bit confusing.  It appears some people are discussing moving Postively Cleveland into certain space while others are talking about a temporary casino in certain space.  Maybe I am wrong but I think McCleveland was saying that the Ameritrust building would be wrong for Postively Cleveland not a temp casino, although I don't think he would be in favor of that for the same reasons stated.

  If the rotunda gets defiled for some "temporary" use I'll be a very unhappy clevelander.  And if it isn't temporary... again, you've just made the entire property less valuable and viable to develop as the rotunda would no longer be included.

 

are you saying no sort of temporary display would be ok with you? temporary anything?

 

IF that is in fact what you are saying, that attitude could hold this city back immensely. Here in Paris there are structures, displays, art, you name it that is designed ALL the time which is put up among historical centers. Dealing with intervention of new sculpture/architecture is how we grow as a city and its a necessity to include it no matter what happens with this casino. New things are going to be built around old things, fact of life. Sorry to steer it off topic, and maybe I am overreacting, but as long as it is truly temporary, we should encourage exhibits and new attention to a beautiful old landmark that is fairly neglected by most of the population.

 

I don't think McC's advocating that we bronze the rotunda in its current form to be enjoyed as is for ever after.  I think he's rightfully suggesting we tread carefully and not irreversibly "modernize" it at the expense of some of its current architectural quality all for a particular use that from the get-go is known to be temporary.  Like how the county's contractors trashed the ground floor facade of the Breuer tower to ease their asbestos removal.  Thanks, county!  Better to hold out until we know a long term tenant or use, then make alterations.

This thread is getting a bit confusing. It appears some people are discussing moving Postively Cleveland into certain space while others are talking about a temporary casino in certain space. Maybe I am wrong but I think McCleveland was saying that the Ameritrust building would be wrong for Postively Cleveland not a temp casino, although I don't think he would be in favor of that for the same reasons stated.

 

Maybe we need a new thread for suggestions on where to move Positively Cleveland.

 

But we do have this...

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18260.0.html

 

and maybe even this..

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,11531.0.html

If the rotunda gets defiled for some "temporary" use I'll be a very unhappy clevelander. And if it isn't temporary... again, you've just made the entire property less valuable and viable to develop as the rotunda would no longer be included.

 

are you saying no sort of temporary display would be ok with you? temporary anything?

 

IF that is in fact what you are saying, that attitude could hold this city back immensely. Here in Paris there are structures, displays, art, you name it that is designed ALL the time which is put up among historical centers. Dealing with intervention of new sculpture/architecture is how we grow as a city and its a necessity to include it no matter what happens with this casino. New things are going to be built around old things, fact of life. Sorry to steer it off topic, and maybe I am overreacting, but as long as it is truly temporary, we should encourage exhibits and new attention to a beautiful old landmark that is fairly neglected by most of the population.

 

I don't think McC's advocating that we bronze the rotunda in its current form to be enjoyed as is for ever after. I think he's rightfully suggesting we tread carefully and not irreversibly "modernize" it at the expense of some of its current architectural quality all for a particular use that from the get-go is known to be temporary. Like how the county's contractors trashed the ground floor facade of the Breuer tower to ease their asbestos removal. Thanks, county! Better to hold out until we know a long term tenant or use, then make alterations.

 

yea the level of permanentness is what I wasnt understanding. The idea of long term tenant is agreeable to me. Thanks for the links Murray Hill!

Scav, I'll respond to my thoughts on Positively Cleve and GCP in the other thread, as it really probably shouldn't go here... but regarding the casino... Via the constitutional ammendment that passed the ONLY place a casino can go (temporary or permanent) is in one of the sites discussed in the ammendment.  Those sites were essentially the higbee building, the area directly behind TC where the parking lot is, the area where TC ampitheatre is, an area further south of the ampitheatre, and scranton peninsula.  Given that all of those sites require completely new construction the only site for a "temporary" casino that makes any sense is Higbee's.  No sense discussing what other locations would be cool for a casino.

!!! Someone told me "word on the street" is the so-called permanent casino may take up the entire two floors of shops in Tower City and then extend outward with an addition!!! What does anyone know about that possibility???  :-o

Don't have any idea but I think Gilbert would be crazy unless he got one hell of a deal.  They have had water issues in TC from day one.  Why would you want to have those headaches when you could have a completely new building.

!!! Someone told me "word on the street" is the so-called permanent casino may take up the entire two floors of shops in Tower City and then extend outward with an addition!!! What does anyone know about that possibility???  :-o

I don't think that would be allowed based on what was in the language of the amendment. I'm not putting too much stock in the "word on the street".

^ That would be a travesty in a downtown that is already severely lacking retail in the center core.

^ Pretty sure that would violate the terms of the amendment.  They are placing the "Phase 1" casino in the Higbee building NEXT to Tower City, but they can't place it IN Tower City.  It will however be connected.

^ I hope you're right. Persoanlly, I think it would be the king of tack to use the retail areas in TC for this. Downtown shopping is an element we cannot drive the final nail in the coffin on; that is, if we want to be a multi-faceted and dynamic place.

Honestly, as a shopaholic, I would not mind this.

 

It would force retail back to street level.  Where would retailers locate?    Euclid, Prospect, West third and West sixth.

 

Could be a "win-win" for all.  However, as other have said, "word on the street" is stretching it. 

 

 

Scav, I'll respond to my thoughts on Positively Cleve and GCP in the other thread, as it really probably shouldn't go here... but regarding the casino... Via the constitutional ammendment that passed the ONLY place a casino can go (temporary or permanent) is in one of the sites discussed in the ammendment.  Those sites were essentially the higbee building, the area directly behind TC where the parking lot is, the area where TC ampitheatre is, an area further south of the ampitheatre, and scranton peninsula.  Given that all of those sites require completely new construction the only site for a "temporary" casino that makes any sense is Higbee's.  No sense discussing what other locations would be cool for a casino.

Cleveland casino to open in two phases, in connected buildings

By Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer

May 27, 2010, 1:00AM

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio - By this time next year, Cleveland Cavaliers majority owner Dan Gilbert wants to have a casino open and occupying the first couple of floors of the Higbee Building in downtown Cleveland.

 

It will just be a taste of things to come, a first phase of the main $700 million casino slated for mid-2013 near Tower City along Huron Road, The Plain Dealer has learned from city and state officials and business leaders.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_casino_to_open_in_tw.html

$700 million?  I thought it was going to be a $600 million project.... not that I am complaining.