"And from the PD...I find the last 3 paragraphs most interesting--competetion is a good thing:"

 

Im not so sure in this case (but I guess in the sense that you are talking)...

Just not in the same region, as had been experienced in Pennsylvania.

 

Harrah's also owns Thistledown in North Randall, which I hope doesn't get slots as I think that will pull some people away from downtown.

 

Without a doubt. Pittsburgh found this out the hard way. I certainly kept people from going downtown, and the casino had really suffered.... And has been operation at Severe undercapacity, or well below the inflated expectations.

 

By all accounts I've heard that the Pittsburgh casino is awful. Dirty, overpriced, and located in a desolate part of the city that is cut off from the rest of downtown by a highway. It's as if we decided to build the Cleveland casino on the lakefront at the mouth of the river, but worse.

 

I think Forest City has plans to develop that whole North Shore area in Pittsburgh but they might be rethinking this due to the poor performance of the casino, I don't know.

 

At any rate, our casino plan seems to be much better thought out. I only hope they offer a poker room and table games right off the bat--this, I think, is one of the mistakes the the Pittsburgh casinos made. A casino isn't a casino without baccarat!

 

I couldn't agree more!

 

 

BANCO

From the WSJ:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704407804575425521289269004.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

I didn't realize how in debt Harrah is...

 

Sounds like they've been doing a little too much gambling lately.

 

Ba-da-bump....

HALLELUJAH!!

 

Dan Gilbert, Forest City reach deal on land for Cleveland casino

Published: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:30 AM   

Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cavaliers majority owner Dan Gilbert has reached a deal with Forest City Enterprises to acquire land for his downtown Cleveland casino along Huron Road next to Tower City.

 

Gilbert's Rock Gaming LLC will acquire about 16 acres from Forest City, including land immediately adjacent to Tower City and part of the Riverview parking lot, the two companies announced Thursday morning. The companies have also agreed on a mulityear lease for the Higbee Building, where Gilbert hopes to open a "Phase 1" casino as early as next year while moving forward with development of the main casino.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/dan_gilbert_forest_city_reach.html

 

 

HALLELUJAH!!

 

Dan Gilbert, Forest City reach deal on land for Cleveland casino

Published: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:30 AM

Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cavaliers majority owner Dan Gilbert has reached a deal with Forest City Enterprises to acquire land for his downtown Cleveland casino along Huron Road next to Tower City.

 

Gilbert's Rock Gaming LLC will acquire about 16 acres from Forest City, including land immediately adjacent to Tower City and part of the Riverview parking lot, the two companies announced Thursday morning. The companies have also agreed on a mulityear lease for the Higbee Building, where Gilbert hopes to open a "Phase 1" casino as early as next year while moving forward with development of the main casino.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/dan_gilbert_forest_city_reach.html

 

 

 

OMG that is an old file picture they have in that article.

Awesome news, and they are going to be doing construction for two projects.  More money and people at work.

Is this the site of the former proposed Convention Center or is it the parcel on the bluff across from the Q.

Is this the site of the former proposed Convention Center or is it the parcel on the bluff across from the Q.

 

Here's a map of the acquired land:

 

http://media.cleveland.com/open_impact/photo/casino-graphicjpg-36f133e328966bd1.jpg

based off that map - does that mean the Tower City amphitheater and the power plant substation are being removed?

That's pretty baffling! :-o  So Forest City sold them a hillside.  For a casino!  I thought they were going to attach it to Tower City.

 

But realistically with the land they have purchased it looks like there will be an escalator to heaven to connect the two locations to keep it within the constitutionally designated spot.  Yes bye bye Tower City Amphitheater. 

 

And as I think about it a little more.  It will probably be 2-4 levels of parking garage along the majority of tower city amphitheater with the casino above that then the escalator to the mother ship.  Maybe this should be called East Flats casino...

 

Rethought some more:

I guess the expensive possibility is he does attach it to TC using the current parking deck and builds a new parking deck at the amphitheater..    There would be some serious jutting out over the valley with that plan perhaps knocking out the power plant.. 

 

Would this not spur Sherwin-Williams to move?

^up thread there is a PD article which details how the casino will be laid out, with river view plazas and the like....it will be built on a 5 story parking garage and rise about 60 feet above Huron.

And per the article it will not take over tower city amphitheater, it is taking the lot next to it where the rib cook off goes (back to the malls for the rib festival?). And it will be relatively simple to connect it to TC should they so choose, under Huron.

Would this not spur Sherwin-Williams to move?

 

Probably not. It will abut their property, but Sherwin-Williams has a lot invested in the Breen Center. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

My brother works for Sherwin, and he says that the thought there is Sherwin was there before the terminal tower, they will be there after :)

OK I didn't realize they were getting the entire parking deck on that side of Huron to build on.  I was confused I guess by Gilbert's statements about how one would be able to walk across the street to the casino from the Q. 

 

So it looks then that the Amphitheater will be owned by Gilbert?  He'll then have an arena, a casino, and an amphitheater.  Are park place and boardwalk far behind???

 

OK. I guess the map above is way off the mark on what was bought since the article said it abutted the amphitheater..

My brother works for Sherwin, and he says that the thought there is Sherwin was there before the terminal tower, they will be there after :)

 

They were in the Landmark office towers.  SW took over BPs floors and management responsibilities when we vacated.

 

That research bldg (or whatever it's called) was added and expanded after.

So it looks then that the Amphitheater will be owned by Gilbert? He'll then have an arena, a casino, and an amphitheater.

 

No.  Please try to keep up.

 

And per the article it will not take over tower city amphitheater, it is taking the lot next to it where the rib cook off goes (back to the malls for the rib festival?).

 

Everything I've heard indicates that the casino will run along Huron Rd. with a parking deck underneath.  It may extend down Ontario slightly, but it won't come anywhere near TC Amphitheater.  And the Cleveland Thermal plant isn't going anywhere... that is a Cleveland Thermal facility right?  Regardless, it's not moving.

Based on the location, if they decide they need to build a hotel they could put it in the hole where the RTA tracks are where the mural of some athlete used to be. That would be right across the street for where entrances might be and an underground tunnel to the casino could be easily be added if they wanted.

Based on the location, if they decide they need to build a hotel they could put it in the hole where the RTA tracks are where the mural of some athlete used to be. That would be right across the street for where entrances might be and an underground tunnel to the casino could be easily be added if they wanted.

 

I think the hotel (if it's still apart of the development) is/was slated for the center of the development not above the tracks.

My brother works for Sherwin, and he says that the thought there is Sherwin was there before the terminal tower, they will be there after :)

 

They were in the Landmark office towers. SW took over BPs floors and management responsibilities when we vacated.

 

That research bldg (or whatever it's called) was added and expanded after.

 

Sherwin has been at that site since the late 1800s.  They also have offices in Tower City, as well as all over the world.

 

Lets take it to PM if you have more points to make.

My brother works for Sherwin, and he says that the thought there is Sherwin was there before the terminal tower, they will be there after :)

 

They were in the Landmark office towers.  SW took over BPs floors and management responsibilities when we vacated.

 

That research bldg (or whatever it's called) was added and expanded after.

 

Sherwin has been at that site since the late 1800s.  They also have offices in Tower City, as well as all over the world.

 

Lets take it to PM if you have more points to make.

 

I'm aware of that.  What is your point?  PM me with that.

I've been on this forum long enough to know if something happens it will be posted. However, I haven't heard anything about the casino in months. I've seen renderings of the Cincinnati casino, but there has been nothing written about the Cleveland casino in months...just a random thought.

They are working on it... it is just far and away the most complicated of the sites.  By a mile...

When is the temporary/Phase I part in the Higbees building scheduled to open / start construction?

I have searched but.. when will they announce who the architect will be? Is it KA? Have they named an architect yet?

I just read this article in Crain's about narrowing the Cuyahoga River for the casino development. I hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those drawn out issues that take years to settle.http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101108/SUB1/311089979

I wonder if Dan Gilbert is now realizing why it would not have been such a good idea to put a convention center here...

I just read this article in Crain's about narrowing the Cuyahoga River for the casino development. I hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those drawn out issues that take years to settle.http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101108/SUB1/311089979

 

This could be an issue.  Does the article say that narrowing the river is necessary?  Or is it merely preferable?  I think the Feds have to be involved if they are planning on narrowing, straightening, or doing whatever to the river.

^The article indicates that this would take Congressional action, although surprisingly suggests this could be a routine matter (sure).  Lake shippers appear to be very opposed.  Need about 26 feet due to parking issues (what the hell) and to accommodate a cantilevered section of the building.  Even if routine I cannot see where this would not delay things.  Apparently this is all in pre application (Army Corp) stage.

 

Love your comment McCleveland.

EDIT: Htsguy beat me to it.

 

Google the article title and you'll get access to the full version on Crain's website (weird quirk).  Sounds like a pretty ambitious proposal- it would move the bulkhead 29 feet into the river at one point.  Congressional action is required, but sounds like Sherrod Brown is on board.  The purpose is "to accommodate more parking and to provide a buffer for a cantilevered section of the casino building that, without bumping out the shoreline, would reach the river's edge."

Thanks.  Sounds like they have a specific design in mind already for the casino.

if they infill on one side of the river, can they cut into Scranton Peninsula, and kind of shift the river?

Moving a river for a parking lot.  I don't know where to begin.

if they infill on one side of the river, can they cut into Scranton Peninsula, and kind of shift the river?

 

That sounds awefully expensive.  Property acquisition, bulkhead removal, exgavation, bulkhead installation (both sides of river).  I would imagine they'll petition the Feds for some reduction in river width at that location and then work with whatever they're given. 

Moving a river for a parking lot. I don't know where to begin.

 

For real- that was my reaction too.  Without plans though, it's hard to know how much of this is to accommodate parking v. the cantilever.  It all sounds crazy expensive though.  If it's for parking, I wish they would just tunnel over to the county owned Gateway garage on the other side of Ontario- that thing is a major underperformer, I believe.

if they infill on one side of the river, can they cut into Scranton Peninsula, and kind of shift the river?

 

FCE likes this idea!

Although perhaps the lake erie shippers would be on board if it led to some straightening of the bend there to make it easier to get larger ships through.  Narrowing the channel on one side only is probably going to be a non-starter.

Moving a river for a parking lot. I don't know where to begin.

 

What are the prices for those parking spaces going to be? If they're not thousands of dollars per hour, then I sure hope no one will ever again try to convince me that driving isn't subsidized.

This all sounds so silly and expensive to me. Cleveland already has too many parking lots and I can't believe they're considering spending massive amounts of cash on narrowing the cuyahoga river.... for parking. There must be multiple other (more reasonable) choices.

I really hope this doesn't turn into another stupid long delay

Sweet sassy molassy this can't be true! There has to be a better way to accommodate their parking demands.

It has to be more than parking.  I talked to a few people in the know during the time when this site was being considered for the CC/MM and they all said that the site is an engineering nightmare for any large scale structure.

I know that moving the river has been in the works for a long long time. at least 5 years now. Personally, the thought disgusts me. If the cantilever is illegal, then fix the dang design! Changing the river takes millions of dollars.

 

Its like these massive projects can get whatever they want. This city gets a "silver bullet" idea and then bends over backwards too far.. changing the river would be too far, if you ask me.

Wait a minute, Dan Gilbert said construction would start "right away" if this passed the ballot last year???

I never expected construction to start right away given the site of the proposed casino.  It is clearly the trickest site of any of the four cities with the most ambitious plans architecturally.  Of course I did not vote for it in the first place so I would not have been swayed by any such rhetoric

they will be moving forward with the higbee building soon...

they will be moving forward with the higbee building soon...

 

I hope they dont keep delaying the main casino and decide just to make the permanent one in the higbee building. Is that even a possibility?

the higbee building is "phase 1", not necessarily "temporary".  it may remain regardless.

the higbee building is "phase 1", not necessarily "temporary". it may remain regardless.

 

I know but I hope they dont plan on expanding the higbee building project and to scrap the new build casino

who takes on the cost of moving the river? is it the city, state, or casino? If its the casino, i don't see what the cost has to do with our position on it.

Looking at old maps of the area, it looks like that section of the river was widened at some point in Cleveland's industrial age, probably to let ships pass through.  A portion of Scranton Peninsula was removed, making that wide portion at the bend. 

 

I really wish we didn't always choose to do things the hard way!