Casino won't dramatically alter Cleveland's beloved Higbee building

There is a picture of the rendering on the site as well

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The exteriors of the historic Higbee building downtown, a beloved fixture on Public Square since 1931, won’t be drastically altered by putting a casino in the basement and on the first three floors of the building.

 

Renderings made public today by Rock Ventures LLC, which has partnered with Caesars Horseshoe to open the facility by "early 2012" show that the company plans to treat the building with a light hand.

 

Exterior signs will be understated, not garish or vulgar. New lighting will be installed to highlight the structure’s Beaux Arts style. Translucent screens will be installed behind windows on the first and second floors to obscure slot machines and gaming tables inside, while allowing passersby to get a sense of motion and activity.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2011/02/casino_wont_dramatically_alter.html

What an unbelievable time it is for Public Square!   :clap: :clap:

 

Except there's a big hole that still has to be filled. But yes, all of this activity could help in that regard. It certainly creates momentum for that to happen sooner rather than later.

Will the larger, new construction casino also be the "Horseshoe" brand?  Did I miss that somewhere??

With that level of investment ("hundreds of millions of dollars"), it seems the Higbee building is a lock to become part of the permanent plans, no?

 

Sounds like a possibility.  From the article....

 

One major question that remains: What will happen to the Higbee casino when the larger gaming operation opens on Huron Road?

Said Glover: "We're hoping that people will like what they see, that they will look at it and say, 'Let's keep this going, let's couple it with the permanent casino.' "

I pictures spin-off right away along Ontario and E.4th-Prospect.

 

I sure hope the Stanley Block (http://www.clevelandareahistory.com/2010/06/condemned-stanley-block.html) makes it through all of this.

^ If not, we will protest!

Casino won't dramatically alter Cleveland's beloved Higbee building

There is a picture of the rendering on the site as well

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The exteriors of the historic Higbee building downtown, a beloved fixture on Public Square since 1931, won’t be drastically altered by putting a casino in the basement and on the first three floors of the building.

 

Renderings made public today by Rock Ventures LLC, which has partnered with Caesars Horseshoe to open the facility by "early 2012" show that the company plans to treat the building with a light hand.

 

Exterior signs will be understated, not garish or vulgar. New lighting will be installed to highlight the structure’s Beaux Arts style. Translucent screens will be installed behind windows on the first and second floors to obscure slot machines and gaming tables inside, while allowing passersby to get a sense of motion and activity.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2011/02/casino_wont_dramatically_alter.html

 

Sorry, but this line made me laugh...

 

"Exterior signs will be understated, not garish or vulgar."

 

I just pictured a big neon sign that said "GET IN THIS F@$%ING CASINO!"

I like that they will add lighting to the outside of the building. This could finally be the end of that Dillards sign! lol.  And flags will be hung

I like the fact that Phase 1 will only feature two bars and one buffet restaurant.  It will give the other restaurants in the area a chance to fight for the visitors to the casino.  Plus, I like buffets...

 

Perhaps the tax revenue from Phase 1 should be used to renovate Public Square, since that's where it's going to be located.

Forbes said the casino would not re-use original 1930s brass railings, lighting fixtures and other features, which were removed from the interiors in earlier renovations and set aside by Forest City for safekeeping and possible future use.

 

:(

 

Casino won't dramatically alter Cleveland's beloved Higbee building

There is a picture of the rendering on the site as well

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The exteriors of the historic Higbee building downtown, a beloved fixture on Public Square since 1931, won’t be drastically altered by putting a casino in the basement and on the first three floors of the building.

 

Renderings made public today by Rock Ventures LLC, which has partnered with Caesars Horseshoe to open the facility by "early 2012" show that the company plans to treat the building with a light hand.

 

Exterior signs will be understated, not garish or vulgar. New lighting will be installed to highlight the structure’s Beaux Arts style. Translucent screens will be installed behind windows on the first and second floors to obscure slot machines and gaming tables inside, while allowing passersby to get a sense of motion and activity.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2011/02/casino_wont_dramatically_alter.html

The comments on Cleveland.com always get me. Most of the time I don't read them, but today I got sucked in.  The constant complaining and whining about the dumbest stuff.

Then why validate those moronic comments here?  ;)

It would be nice if they were able to find a way to incorporate the Higbee name. Like if they had a high stakes area in there they could call it something like "Higbees High Stakes Room", and on the expensive slot machines call it "Millionaires Row"

 

I like "the HORSESHOW Casino at/in the Historic Higbee Building"

 

They should also have a some sort of exhibit about the Higbee building built into the building.

I really hope the $350 million for this higbee project is not taken for the $ set aside for the overall project (~600 million.)

 

I would rather have a world class casino at a single location than two  which are half assed because the politicians and developers couldn't wait

 

They should also have a some sort of exhibit about the Higbee building built into the building.

 

AWESOME IDEA! :clap:

I really hope the $350 million for this higbee project is not taken for the $ set aside for the overall project (~600 million.)

 

I would rather have a world class casino at a single location than two which are half assed because the politicians and developers couldn't wait

 

Hey they already just spent $85 million for the frikin land...

Im in NOLA, and I was hoping it would be a Harrah's, it fits in nicely with the city, it does not dominate, but it is first class.

 

Horseshoe?  That is just a dumb name to begin with.

I hope this does not wind up like a innerbelt project, starting off like a visionary way to do something spectacular, then wind up being sub-mediocre by the time it's finished with one let down after another.

 

MTS!!! Lead us to the path of complaint that lets Mr. Gilbert know that second rate is not good enough for Cleveland.  We want it to be a Harrah's!

 

I've already done so Boo.  I've learned that the "HORSESHOW" brand is the brand, going forward, they will use outside of Vegas and AC.  There are other Harrah's around, and it's possible those will change brand.  Tunica and NoLa being the exceptions. 

 

This is the first new concept casino for the brand. 

^^To answer part of your question...I believe the article mentioned that 50 mil of this 350 mil figure is the 50 mil that goes to the state for the license...so that is 50 mil right there that is not going into construction  (plus much of that figure relates to equipment)

I really hope the $350 million for this higbee project is not taken for the $ set aside for the overall project (~600 million.)

 

I would rather have a world class casino at a single location than two  which are half assed because the politicians and developers couldn't wait

 

You cannot be serious.  You just can't.

^^its still a dumb name

^its still a dumb name

 

I know, but I must admit, I won big at the horseshoe in Tunica.  It was like they were giving away money!

 

I hope you kids have signed up for your Total Rewards card!

Great news!

 

From the way the article was written, it looks like the this first phase isn't included with the $600 million casino behind Tower City.  If this is the case, that's GREAT news- since this would turn into an approximately $1 Billion project...

 

The added influx of 13,000 people a day to Public Square will be great for the existing businesses, and will undoubtedly spur new businesses in the area.

I wonder how much a slot machine costs, and how significant of a percentage of the overall costs are just to buy gambling machines?

^They can be over $1000

I may be a worry wart...but is anyone else concerned about these two announcements.  $350M for the temporary casino PLUS $600M for the permanent casino...  At first I was worried the temporary casino was in danger of becoming permanent given this level of investment, but I see Rock Caesars paid FCE $85M for the land to build the permanent casino, so I sure this will be built too.

 

All that to say the other Ohio casino's are being built for waaaay less than the nearly $1B the Cleveland facilities will be built for (although it seems like we're really getting two casino's out of the deal).  I'm just worried if Cleveland's "gambling market" (and I admit I don't know what that is) can support such an investment.  I believe the Pittsburgh casino was built for way less than this and yet is struggling...different state and circumstances...but I'm just saying.  I'd hate for this to fail...  Any thoughts??  Does anyone else have concerns given this massive investment??

I share your concern Midwest--the gambling market has been in steady decline and it won't help when every major city in the region has a casino. 

 

But, Dan Gilbert is definitely no financial slouch.  He must be confident after dropping the $85M for the additional property.

^They can be over $1000

 

While technically right, I think a closer number is around $10,000. :)

I may be a worry wart...but is anyone else concerned about these two announcements.  $350M for the temporary casino PLUS $600M for the permanent casino...  At first I was worried the temporary casino was in danger of becoming permanent given this level of investment, but I see Rock Caesars paid FCE $85M for the land to build the permanent casino, so I sure this will be built too.

 

All that to say the other Ohio casino's are being built for waaaay less than the nearly $1B the Cleveland facilities will be built for (although it seems like we're really getting two casino's out of the deal).  I'm just worried if Cleveland's "gambling market" (and I admit I don't know what that is) can support such an investment.  I believe the Pittsburgh casino was built for way less than this and yet is struggling...different state and circumstances...but I'm just saying.  I'd hate for this to fail...  Any thoughts??  Does anyone else have concerns given this massive investment??

 

For the love of Black Jack, the thing isn't even built.

 

You can't compare the Pittsburgh or other Ohio casinos as they are NOT in the HEART of the city center nor will they have the amenities (within a 6 minuite walk) that our Casino will have.

 

How about we discuss the positives for once?!

 

Certainly I think that has been many people's concern from the start. 

 

Casino's have become so saturated, so it is no longer a unique thing to attract people from outside the area (thus most people realized that the projected numbers were way inflated), as Pittsburgh also found out. 

 

The added worry I have is if the race tracks also end up offering gambling (+ that goofball proposal for a mega casino/race track for Youngstown).  That was one of the initial problems with Pittsburgh is that it was easier for people outside of the city to go to the racetrack casino than downtown...  At least now they have approved table games, which makes the downtown casino a bigger draw than it was.

 

I guess you can look at it as an additional amenity for poeple and visitors, that could make it more appealing for conventions and such to want to come.

 

 

 

For the love of Black Jack, the thing isn't even built.

 

You can't compare the Pittsburgh or other Ohio casinos as they are NOT in the HEART of the city center nor will they have the amenities (within a 6 minuite walk) that our Casino will have.

 

How about we discuss the positives for once?!

 

 

No no...this is definitely a positive and like Cleburger said Dan Gillbert is no economic slouch.  I'm happy we'll have the biggest and most expensive casino in the state when it's all built...it says something about how bullish they are on the opportunity here in Cleveland.  I guess I was just caught off guard by the total cost...but this is definitely a great day for downtown and I don't want to take from that or inject negativity at all.

This crains article about the announcement confirms the $350 million is on top of the $600 million for the permanent one. 

Thats quite an investment!  I cant imagine what would make the first phase cost $350 million though.

Cleveland Horseshoe Casino receives formal unveiling

By JAY MILLER  3:05 pm, February 3, 2011

 

If all goes as planned, Cleveland will have the first casino in Ohio in early 2012 when the Cleveland Horseshoe Casino opens its temporary, $350 million first phase in the Higbee Building at Tower City Center.

 

That money is in addition to the $600 million investment planned for the permanent casino south of Tower City.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110203/FREE/110209930

This crains article about the announcement confirms the $350 million is on top of the $600 million for the permanent one. 

Thats quite an investment!  I cant imagine what would make the first phase cost $350 million though.

Cleveland Horseshoe Casino receives formal unveiling

By JAY MILLER  3:05 pm, February 3, 2011

 

If all goes as planned, Cleveland will have the first casino in Ohio in early 2012 when the Cleveland Horseshoe Casino opens its temporary, $350 million first phase in the Higbee Building at Tower City Center.

 

That money is in addition to the $600 million investment planned for the permanent casino south of Tower City.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110203/FREE/110209930

 

Willy, you know people don't read, they just want to complain without being "informed".

 

I'm not experct, but I'd guess the high cost is for adaptive reuse of the Higbee building, since it hold historic landmark status.

The temporary casino will essentially clear out all offices in the Higbee building, and also renovate much of the building. What are the odds that this will clear the way for a department store to move in after the temporary casino moves out?

^ I dont think the casino is going anywhere

So there's really nothing temporary about it?

The temporary casino will essentially clear out all offices in the Higbee building, and also renovate much of the building. What are the odds that this will clear the way for a department store to move in after the temporary casino moves out?

 

Key bank will still be on the top floors.  I highly doubt a department store would move back in afterward.  That building was built when you had to go to a department store for almost every need.  Redevelopment due to its historic nature would be costly.  I also sense the casino would not be abandonded so quickly after the new building opens.

 

Department stores are no longer building massive buildings.  Also, in order to be legit, you can't just throw any store into an old building like that.  The price (rent) has to be justified. 

 

Putting a Target in the old Higbee space would be insulting.  A mid range store like Bloomingdales or Nordstrom would be a fit.  Saks, Barney's Neimans/BG aren't going to go into that space as I don't believe cleveland could support a high end, large scale store.

The temporary casino will essentially clear out all offices in the Higbee building, and also renovate much of the building. What are the odds that this will clear the way for a department store to move in after the temporary casino moves out?

 

I believe they're only clearing out the first 2 floors.  Floors 6,8,9 were renovated by Key within the last year or so when they moved from the May Company building.  Floor 7 is used by a few tech companies.  I believe floors 3,4, and 5 are vacant.  I'm sure you could put some retail in there.

 

The temporary casino will essentially clear out all offices in the Higbee building, and also renovate much of the building. What are the odds that this will clear the way for a department store to move in after the temporary casino moves out?

 

I believe they're only clearing out the first 2 floors.  Floors 6,8,9 were renovated by Key within the last year or so when they moved from the May Company building.  Floor 7 is used by a few tech companies.  I believe floors 3,4, and 5 are vacant.  I'm sure you could put some retail in there.

 

 

And how would you access retail from the mid level of the building. 

 

A department store needs street level entry or at a min be lined with other stores leading to the anchor store.  With the TC, prospect, 1st, 2nd floors being the Casino, I have a hard time seeing the building being split for Retail.

One big difference with Pittsburgh's casino is that isn't on the downtown side of the river. In fact it's on the OTHER side of the stadiums from downtown. So walking there from the convention center, downtown hotels, etc. isn't easy. There is a shuttle bus, but it's not well known. The light-rail system extension from downtown under the Monongahela River to the stadiums and casino area is nearly finished. When that is done, Pittsburgh's casino may perform better.

 

But Cleveland's has the advantage of being well integrated with its downtown area, hotels, sports stadiums and transit system right off the bat.

Higbees could possibly never see retail again. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Its too large for todays department stores, and I rather have it filled up then waiting for a chance a department store would be willing to come back. We already have trouble filling up tower city with "desirable" stores and getting stores along Euclid avenue. Add on top of that all of the arcades and we are over saturated with retail space. The Higbee building has stepped into the next phase of its life.

The casino will be 4 floors.

and this this from the Crains article....  I thought they instead were making a case that it would be connected, and not seperate...?

 

Mr. Gilbert would not confirm to Crain's speculation that he and his partners will seek to change the constitutional language that is bringing casino gambling to Ohio so that they can operate gambling halls at two disconnected sites, which would allow the Higbee complex to stay open after the permanent casino opens. Mr. Gilbert said the money would be worth it if the Cleveland operation had first mover advantage in the state.  

^I thought the PD article said it would be 2 floors.

 

 

The temporary casino will essentially clear out all offices in the Higbee building, and also renovate much of the building. What are the odds that this will clear the way for a department store to move in after the temporary casino moves out?

 

I believe they're only clearing out the first 2 floors. Floors 6,8,9 were renovated by Key within the last year or so when they moved from the May Company building. Floor 7 is used by a few tech companies.   I believe floors 3,4, and 5 are vacant. I'm sure you could put some retail in there.

 

 

And how would you access retail from the mid level of the building.

 

A department store needs street level entry or at a min be lined with other stores leading to the anchor store. With the TC, prospect, 1st, 2nd floors being the Casino, I have a hard time seeing the building being split for Retail.

 

I was moreso responding to Coneybear's comment about the casino wiping out all of the offices.  You're right that it would be really tough to get retail in there.  You might be able to get an entrance off of Public square linked directly to elevators, but it wouldn't be ideal.  Better to use it for office space, although if Crains is right and the casino will take 4 floors, that only leaves 1 floor open for offices.  Thats quite a turnaround from a couple years ago when only 4 floors were in use.

 

Well lets see, if Key has 3 floors and 221,000 square feet, and this casino is supposedly 300,000 square feet, then it appears that this thing will actually be 4 floors.

 

Doesn't 4 floors in the Higbee building plus the new casino building seem a bit large to you guys? Something just doesn't seem right.

As long as they don't greet you with a "howdy buckeroo"

Well lets see, if Key has 3 floors and 221,000 square feet, and this casino is supposedly 300,000 square feet, then it appears that this thing will actually be 4 floors.

 

Doesn't 4 floors in the Higbee building plus the new casino building seem a bit large to you guys? Something just doesn't seem right.

Question Man, you need to realize that every inch of every floor will not be gaming space.

This just isn't computing for me...... the Higbees casino is going to cost more than the entire Interstate Bridge project?  I am guessing that the $350 involves a lot more than construction costs?

Unfreaking believable. Jaw droppingly unnecessary worrying must be killing your life. Kheeerist why don't you worry about things that matter.

I may be a worry wart...but is anyone else concerned about these two announcements.  $350M for the temporary casino PLUS $600M for the permanent casino...  At first I was worried the temporary casino was in danger of becoming permanent given this level of investment, but I see Rock Caesars paid FCE $85M for the land to build the permanent casino, so I sure this will be built too.

 

All that to say the other Ohio casino's are being built for waaaay less than the nearly $1B the Cleveland facilities will be built for (although it seems like we're really getting two casino's out of the deal).  I'm just worried if Cleveland's "gambling market" (and I admit I don't know what that is) can support such an investment.  I believe the Pittsburgh casino was built for way less than this and yet is struggling...different state and circumstances...but I'm just saying.  I'd hate for this to fail...  Any thoughts??  Does anyone else have concerns given this massive investment??

I have some questions on how this casino will be interconnected to other downtown entertainment venues/districts.

 

Obviously, being adjacent/connected to Tower City opens it up to TC, E. 4th, the Q, Progressive Field and Cleveland Browns Stadium, East Bank, W. 6th, Rock Hall, Science Center (via the Lakefront Line).

 

But what about the West Bank (Nautica Pavilion, soon-to-be Powerhouse Aquarium, Shooter's, Goodtimes, etc.)? Could this (and the East Bank project) spur the construction of some sort of walking bridge across the Cuyahoga to the Settler's Landing train station? Could there be enough incentive from business leaders (Gilbert, Wolstein, Jacobs, etc.) to privately finance such project ... Or earmark funds for such a bridge to the city/county if it's legally not possibly for something like that to be privately built? I'm no legal nor engineering expert.

 

However, if this casino plan is to integretate itself with downtown, I think the West Bank has to be taken into consideration. I'm guessing that West Bank visitors are being counted in this 14,000 per day average, and right now, without getting back into a car and driving closer, there is no way those people can easily go from there to the casino.

I have some questions on how this casino will be interconnected to other downtown entertainment venues/districts.

 

Obviously, being adjacent/connected to Tower City opens it up to TC, E. 4th, the Q, Progressive Field and Cleveland Browns Stadium, East Bank, W. 6th, Rock Hall, Science Center (via the Lakefront Line).

 

But what about the West Bank (Nautica Pavilion, soon-to-be Powerhouse Aquarium, Shooter's, Goodtimes, etc.)? Could this (and the East Bank project) spur the construction of some sort of walking bridge across the Cuyahoga to the Settler's Landing train station? Could there be enough incentive from business leaders (Gilbert, Wolstein, Jacobs, etc.) to privately finance such project ... Or earmark funds for such a bridge to the city/county if it's legally not possibly for something like that to be privately built? I'm no legal nor engineering expert.

 

However, if this casino plan is to integretate itself with downtown, I think the West Bank has to be taken into consideration. I'm guessing that West Bank visitors are being counted in this 14,000 per day average, and right now, without getting back into a car and driving closer, there is no way those people can easily go from there to the casino.

 

This is tower city I see no need for changes.  A walking bridge across a working river?  I doubt it.  The best we can hope for are privately owned shuttle to go between the two areas, which I dont think are necessary, as they would have to be subsidized and that means costs at venues increase.

Some things to note:

• At the casino's future home, the crystal chandeliers that Higbee's (and later Dillard's) shoppers will remember hanging above the store's vast promenade are in storage. Some will be re-used in the casino, along with replicas, said Nate Forbes, a principal in Gilbert's Rock Gaming LLC.
  
• Developers haven't said what will happen to the Higbee casino when the Huron Road complex opens, but its substantial cost likely means it will be connected to the larger site and operated jointly.
  

 

Higbee's casino to cost $350 million, create thousand of jobs, developer says

 

By Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer with John Mangels

 

CLEVELAND--The once-grand interior of Higbee's department store, where generations of Clevelanders shopped, and where Ralphie asked Santa for a Red Ryder BB gun in the movie "A Christmas Story," will be transformed into a glittering gambling hall, developers said Thursday.

Officials with Rock Ohio Caesars formally announced Thursday that they will spend $350 million to remake four floors of the historic building, in the process generating 2,000 construction and 1,600 casino jobs and moving downtown Cleveland closer to becoming a vibrant, 24-hour city.

 

Read more: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/higbees_casino_to_cost_350_mil.html

 

I kinda like the idea of a 24 hour Cleveland. Just my thoughts.

 

I have some questions on how this casino will be interconnected to other downtown entertainment venues/districts.

 

Obviously, being adjacent/connected to Tower City opens it up to TC, E. 4th, the Q, Progressive Field and Cleveland Browns Stadium, East Bank, W. 6th, Rock Hall, Science Center (via the Lakefront Line).

 

But what about the West Bank (Nautica Pavilion, soon-to-be Powerhouse Aquarium, Shooter's, Goodtimes, etc.)? Could this (and the East Bank project) spur the construction of some sort of walking bridge across the Cuyahoga to the Settler's Landing train station? Could there be enough incentive from business leaders (Gilbert, Wolstein, Jacobs, etc.) to privately finance such project ... Or earmark funds for such a bridge to the city/county if it's legally not possibly for something like that to be privately built? I'm no legal nor engineering expert.

 

However, if this casino plan is to integretate itself with downtown, I think the West Bank has to be taken into consideration. I'm guessing that West Bank visitors are being counted in this 14,000 per day average, and right now, without getting back into a car and driving closer, there is no way those people can easily go from there to the casino.

 

This is tower city I see no need for changes.  A walking bridge across a working river?  I doubt it.  The best we can hope for are privately owned shuttle to go between the two areas, which I dont think are necessary, as they would have to be subsidized and that means costs at venues increase.

 

There is and will continue to be a private shuttle which takes drunks from one side of the river to the other...