It's not temporary.  $350 million is awfully expensive for a 'temp home.'  It is Phase I.  The $600 million Phase II is the one you are thinking of.  Some are skeptical that it will ever get built, but the Casino owners have already paid $85 for the land so I draw a different conclusion.

 

I think the misconception that the Higbee's casino is temporary is from the concept that was tossed about early on that the building could house some slot machines while the other casino (wherever that may be) was being built.

That would be $85 MILLION. Geez, I just sounded like Dr. Evil!

Interesting article on the casino status... Doesn't give me much hope but I suppose it's a step in the right direction  :|  I really hope it's done by this summer!

 

Still no date is in sight for the grand opening of Cleveland's casino.

 

Marcus Glover, the casino's general manager, and other representatives from Rock Ohio Caesars were in Columbus Wednesday for the Ohio Casino Control Commission meeting and later met privately with commission members to push toward an opening date. The talks were expected to continue today.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2012/01/still_no_opening_date_for_the.html

I cannot fathom that they wouldn't have this thing ready by the Rock Hall induction ceremonies.  At the risk of sounding like a Cleveland.com poster, if this was in Dallas it would be done by now.  I'm really starting to believe that Columbus is like the GOP on Obama--wishing nothing but failure on us.

^The Rock group wrote the constitutional amendment, they new what was needed for background checks and they are the ones who dragged their feet.  I doubt there is anything sinister,but why did they resist so hard about certain "casino principals"  having criminal background checks?

 

I am uncomfortable at how easily Dan Gilbert is able to game the system.

If you don't knock down a landmarked building for parking, I won't build my casino.

If you think about increasing the amount of tax the casino will have to pay, I won't build my casino.

If you don't look the other way on some of my business partners, I'll get my Plain Dealer to say that Columbus is causing delays in the opening just to spite Cleveland.

Although I realize he will never be forgiven on this board for the Columbia demo, it's time to move on.  It's spilled milk at this point

My point is that it seems to fit a pattern of behavior, so what is next? 

It fits the pattern of behavoir of any major developer who is investing hundreds of millions of dollars in a city.  These people don't just roll over upon demand from government officials.

No, not if the government officials are first rolling over for them.

Perhaps, but do you honestly expect Gilber and Co. to tell them to stop groveling?  Point being, if that is your objection, the bone to pick is with those government officials, not the developers.

Exactly.  But the contention is also that Gilbert comes across and claims to know whats best for downtown and an urban setting, yet his ideas and actions often come across as not having a clue (yeah, he's a businessman and salesman) . 

 

I certaintly blame city officials for not holding a higher standard with him, especially since in this case they really had the upper hand.  People like Gilbert need to be "guided" by the people that are supposed to know and understand what is best.       

People like Gilbert need to be "guided" by the people that are supposed to know and understand what is best.       

 

You would get lynched at a Tea Party rally.  'Job creators' need no 'guidance' from that evil gub'ment.

 

But I get your point and don't disagree.  I just don't apply a different standard to Gilbert than other developers.

People like Gilbert need to be "guided" by the people that are supposed to know and understand what is best.       

 

You would get lynched at a Tea Party rally.  'Job creators' need no 'guidance' from that evil gub'ment.

 

But I get your point and don't disagree.  I just don't apply a different standard to Gilbert than other developers.

 

Well Im sure I would be lynched at a Tea Party rally (and I'm proud of that), but I mean guidance in the sense that, like how South Euclid gets scolded on this board for having no to very low development standards as far as new development goes. 

 

Certainly developers and chains stores are going to propose the easiest and cheapest way to build something.  But it turns out that it really doesnt have to be that way.  It is always going to be up to the Community to know better and press for higher standards which they will typically get since developers expect this, and want for the development to move forward.

 

Thats why you will see Wallgreens and CVS's built as cinder block boxes in some places, and with attractive elements and materials such as brick, stone and glass in others.  Typically the cinder block one would be indicative of a place that doesnt know any better or out of a sense of desperation and just didnt press for anything that the developer didnt initially offer.  It is all about a constructive dialogue from the beginning. 

 

 

 

^Along these lines, the fact that casino is going to open and operate for at least a couple years without a tube being crammed into the Higbees building is pretty good evidence that the casino would have still opened and operated even if the city had held its ground on that issue.

Although I realize he will never be forgiven on this board for the Columbia demo, it's time to move on.  It's spilled milk at this point

 

There's more than just Gilbert who aren't going to get forgiveness anytime soon for destroying that Cleveland Landmark.

 

This isn't a vendetta, this is keeping bad development in check and the developers accountable for their promises. We need to learn from our mistakes as a city and listen when people criticize the next "silver bullet" that comes at the expense of our architectural and historical fabric.

Good thing Cleveland learned from the decaying, empty downtown shells in Minneapolis and Indianapolis that enclosed walkways just turn people off. Boy, walkways simply killed those downtowns and their business and their conventions.

 

 

 

 

After talking to someone from Deconstruction Management Inc. with broad knowledge of the Columbia Building, it apparently needed A LOT more work than people are letting one.  That aside, it is once again spilled milk.  I blame this all one Forbes, doesn't it seem they're always out to get us?  I think they made Gilbert refuse to give information to the state, and I think they told Columbus to process everything as slowly as possible.  Or maybe it's evil little gnomes.

 

But in all seriousness, let's just hope that when the casino DOES open, it opens correctly and on good terms with everyone.  I'd rather this fiasco happen before it's opening than something happen after it opened.

i just read yesterdays cleveland.com article.  Seems pretty simple to me.  An ambitious schedule was set with a minimial time opening date.  As it turns out, the regulatory process is taking a bit longer so an opening date is delayed and until the timeline for the outstanding items becomes more clear, they've decided not to name an opening date.

 

A 3-4 month delay on a project of this scope is not unheard of nor unusual.

The common denominator with the current delay and the work stoppage in the fall is Gov. John Kasich. These delays also effect Penn Nat'l, so I tend to put more of the blame on goverment bureaucrats then on Gilbert. Any delay is costing both developers big bucks.

And it's costing the government tax revenue, can we place the blame on both of them and move on?

so would anyone care to post an opening date guesstimate?

 

thx i need a talking point for some gambler co-workers heh.

The carpet is installed and Cleveland's Horseshoe Casino is ready for slot machines: (video)

Published: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:00 PM 

Dave Davis, The Plain Dealer =

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CLEVELAND, Ohio--Move over Toledo, you've got nothing on Cleveland -- casino-wise, that is.

 

Just five days after officials at Toledo's Hollywood casino indicated they ought to be the first casino to open in Ohio because construction was pretty much complete except for the carpet, their counterparts at Cleveland's Horseshoe casino upped the ante by showing off a nearly finished casino, complete with new carpet.

 

During a tour Wednesday, two partners in Dan Gilbert's gambling company unveiled what they've done to transform the former Higbee's department store into a full-fledged casino complete with 2,100 slot machines, a 30-table dedicated poker room and 63 table games.

 

"We're ready to go," declared Jeff Cohen, a principal in Rock Gaming LLC who's overseeing the Higbee construction. Rock Gaming has joined with Caesars Entertainment Corp. to build and operate voter-approved casinos in Cleveland and Cincinnati.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/the_carpet_is_installed_and_cl.html

Anyone know what the breakdown of the investment money into the Higbees building?  I know $50MM is for the license, and they are buying 2100 video slot machines, but I don't know what that would cost.

 

Im just wondering how much money is actually going into the Higbees building.

http://archrecord.construction.com/yb/ar/article.aspx?story_id=168250278

 

Not sure where to put this but an interesting article regarding skyways. A continued argument against the planned skyway to adjoin the casino with its parking structure.

 

Maze of Minneapolis Skyways: A Dead End?

 

Jan. 22--Once the pride of Minneapolis, the city's 8 miles of skyways have become a villain in the vision for downtown's future.

 

Prominent downtown boosters say the network of elevated walkways is sucking life from the sidewalks. Modern cities put a premium on a vibrant street scene, but business leaders noted in a recent 15-year plan for downtown that the skyways are "leaving sidewalks barren and storefronts empty."

 

Oh I'd say that definitely belongs here! Thanks for sharing.

^^Hmm...when ever somebody on this board makes this exact point, some devotee of skywalks always points to Minneapolis and how great they are.

^^Hmm...when ever somebody on this board makes this exact point, some devotee of skywalks always points to Minneapolis and how great they are.

 

Well, for a city that has so few skywalks as of now, the sidewalks are still barren and storefronts still somehow very empty.

^So, now that we are investing about a billion dollars into bringing tourists here, lets not shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

 

 

Workers rode collapsing floor to bottom at Cincinnati casino, officials say

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/workers_rode_collapsing_floor.html

 

Coincidence?  Are any of the architecture or construction crews from the same company for the Cleveland and Cincinnati casinos.

This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

 

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

 

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

 

Huh?  Casualties are NOT built in and prepared for.  So you think every contractor comes on a job and figures..."well there is probably going to be an accident or death.....that's to be expected"?? 

 

Please state your source for making that statement

 

This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

 

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

 

Huh?  Casualties and NOT built in and prepared for.  So you thinking every contractor comes on a job and figures..."well there is probably going to be an accident or death.....that's to be expected"?? 

 

Please state your source for making that statement

 

 

Yes they are.  Construction sites need to be prepared for casualties.  They can happen at any time.  I'm not strictly speaking about the loss of life, but any emergency issue that may arise.

That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 

It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

 

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.

If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 

It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

 

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.

If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

 

I'm not in construction, but I find it very hard to believe that there is no expectation or contingency in place for issues like the parking deck collapse.

That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 

It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

 

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.

If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

 

I'm not in construction, but I find it very hard to believe that there is no expectation or contingency in place for issues like the parking deck collapse.

 

Contingency or preparation?  Sure.  But expectation?  I don't know.  But in regards to my concerns, that has to do with the fact that this is the second incident in just a few months for Rock Gaming.  It could be a coincidence.  It certainly could be...

Are the construction companies in Cleveland and Cincinnati the same?  Same architects?  Same construction engineers?  Something just seems to be wrong with the setup for the pours in Cleveland and Cincinnati.  Accidents like this happen I'm sure, but I can't remember ever hearing of a floor collapse during a concrete pour on a major construction project.  Anyone have a feel for how common a failure this is in the construction industry?

Are the construction companies in Cleveland and Cincinnati the same?  Same architects?  Same construction engineers?  Something just seems to be wrong with the setup for the pours in Cleveland and Cincinnati.  Accidents like this happen I'm sure, but I can't remember ever hearing of a floor collapse during a concrete pour on a major construction project.  Anyone have a feel for how common a failure this is in the construction industry?

 

Doesn't sound like it was the same company; Cleveland Cement was used up here, while Messer Construction is cited in the recent article in Cincy.  Still could have been Cleveland Cement and Messer was acting as a General Contractor though.  However, it does just feel fishy.

Apparently there is no curse, just shoddy construction.

 

No one needs to root for the casinos to fail--they're doing it on their own.

That's silly and insensitive.

You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?

You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?

Ridiculous!  The self defeating attitude appears again!

You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?

Ridiculous!  The self defeating attitude appears again!

 

Ridiculous? I don't think it's about an 'attitude' when it happens twice. It's financial liability, delay, and doubt. Two concrete pour mishaps that could have killed people are inexcusable, period. I wrote off the parking garage thing as a freak accident, but having a portion of the actual casino collapse in Cinci is far worse and raises some serious questions.

 

If you want some optimism, at least it happened now, and not after opening. Plus, Cleveland's is now the safest of all of them (because it's a good existing building :P) - but who knows what additional delays might be incurred as a result of these mishaps?

Let's all wait until the investigation is complete.

When it happens twice, there is need to ask questions. To borrow on an Oscar Wilde quote: "To lose one floor to collapse may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness."

I suppose the first and most pertinent question is whether the two projects are using general contractors or construction managers, and whether the same companies are overseeing both sites.  If they are using different general contractors at both sites, then probably nothing more can be made out of this than a bad coincidence.  But if the general contractor is the same or if Rock Gaming is using construction managers and not general contractors on each site, then there might be something there that will make some of the save lower prospect folks downright giddy.

 

The following article is confusing because it would read as if a general contractor is being used in Cleveland while another company is "managing" the Cincy construction.  Of course, that could just be because the press doesn't really understand the difference (at least how those terms are commonly used in NEO). http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/work_at_cincinnatis_horseshoe.html

Wow... that casino looks waaaaay different then it did when I drove by a few days ago. :D

How so?  ;)

Gilbert's Billionaire Hot Wheels set is getting more vertical. This was the view this morning on my walk to the office. I should have shot it from the north side of Prospect to get more of the Welcome Center, but this angle shows the Higbee's building in the background (center-right) where the phase-one casino will open.

 

I know I am beating a dead horse, but when ever I see the term "welcome center" in association with this project I just want to offer the correct phrase which is "valet parking waiting area".

I know I am beating a dead horse, but when ever I see the term "welcome center" in association with this project I just want to offer the correct phrase which is "valet parking waiting area".