Well, the people who are most strongly advocating for the building coming down is Rock Ohio Caesars

Well, the people who are most strongly advocating for the building coming down is Rock Ohio Caesars

 

[glow=red,2,300]SHOCKER![/glow]

Another great article from Michelle Jarboe McFee.

 

 

She's one of the PD's best imho.

Well, the people who are most strongly advocating for the building coming down is Rock Ohio Caesars

 

Putting aside your strong preservationist tendencies, wouldn't you do the same from a business perspective?  It's an eyesore in its current condition (with no immediate plans for that to change) right across from and attached to a major financial investment.

Well, the people who are most strongly advocating for the building coming down is Rock Ohio Caesars

 

Putting aside your strong preservationist tendencies, wouldn't you do the same from a business perspective?  It's an eyesore in its current condition (with no immediate plans for that to change) right across from and attached to a major financial investment.

 

Part or maybe even most of the reason it is an eyesore is because of Rock Gaming. So you can't disassociate.

However we got to this point, we're not left with any real options beyond demo.  And this was probably true 10 years ago but nobody cared then.

However we got to this point, we're not left with any real options beyond demo.  And this was probably true 10 years ago but nobody cared then.

 

Did you read the article?

How is Rock Gaming to blame for a building they don't even own, a building they have not neglected for 20 plus years. Why do the current owners always get a pass in this forum. Maloof = slum landlord. They are just using this situation to play on everyone's emotions. This is an age old tactic. Damn I 'm getting hooked again...

How is Rock Gaming to blame for a building they don't even own, a building they have not neglected for 20 plus years. Why do the current owners always get a pass in this forum. Maloof = slum landlord. They are just using this situation to play on everyone's emotions. This is an age old tactic. Damn I 'm getting hooked again...

 

In the above article by Michele Jarboe:

 

......Long owned by members of the Maloof and Anter families through Macron Investment Co., the building became the subject of a shareholder dispute after Rock Ohio Caesars LLC, the casino developer, bought a stake in Macron.

 

Since then, the property has been tied up in court, as the shareholders argue over who controls the building and what should happen to it.

I think we're having a major disconnect here on the facts.  The PD has reported that the Casino folks DO have an ownership stake (directly or through buying agents) and they are using that stake to push for demolition.

 

The fate of the building has been tangled up in litigation over who actually controls the property. While buying up property for a valet parking center last year, casino developer Rock Ohio Caesars LLC acquired a stake in Macron Investment Co., the company that owns the Stanley Block. The remaining shares in Macron belong to members of the Maloof family, who say they want to restore the building.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/clevelands_stanley_block_build.html

 

I have no idea if we can take the Maloofs at their word about their intention to rehab the building, but the casino ownership shares direct responsibility for this building's problems, no?

 

EDIT Grr, surf is 30 seconds faster than I am.

Well.... if the other stakeholders say you don't have 'control' over the property, then what can you do to rehab it?  Besides, we all know why Rock bought an interest in it and it wasn't to fund any long neglected repairs.

However we got to this point, we're not left with any real options beyond demo.  And this was probably true 10 years ago but nobody cared then.

 

Did you read the article?

 

Yes...?

 

My interpretation of it leads me to believe demo is the only real option left.  I'm thinking these "renovation plans" are somewhere between remote and completely bogus.   

Regardless of whether Rock owns a piece of it or not, up until last year the longtime owners, the Maloofs did nothing with the property and they have been cited for years. They were hardly good neighbors with respect of how they maintained their property. We forget that they sold their beautiful surface parking lots that were an eyesore also. Without this recent development this property probably would have stayed the same way for the next 20 years. And yet no one holds them accountable.

^I completely agree with Freethink here.  The Maloof family has had more than enough time (decades, really) to at least do the bare minimum and has done nothing.  Say what you will about Rock Ohio, I parallel it to this situation:  A family on Lexington in one of those big new houses will not be happy with the decrepit abandoned parcel across the way, and will ask the city (or landowner) to invest in it or demolish it. 

 

Rock Ohio has a brand new property and it's neighbor is for all intents and purposes an absent landlord.  WWRPD? (What would Raymond Pianka Do?)

^ ^^ Live in the present for a moment.

 

Do you think that if Rock Ohio cedes control to the "preservation wing" of the stockholders, that the Maloofs will not save the building?

 

I'm going to "side with" the Maloofs as long as there is a chance they'll redevelop a historic structure. For right now, I could care less that they've been jerks in the past, I just want the best chance for the place to be redeveloped.

 

^I completely agree with Freethink here.  The Maloof family has had more than enough time (decades, really) to at least do the bare minimum and has done nothing.  Say what you will about Rock Ohio, I parallel it to this situation:  A family on Lexington in one of those big new houses will not be happy with the decrepit abandoned parcel across the way, and will ask the city (or landowner) to invest in it or demolish it. 

Rock Ohio has a brand new property and it's neighbor is for all intents and purposes an absent landlord.  WWRPD? (What would Raymond Pianka Do?)

 

It might be comparable if the abandoned structure had historic value and the homeowner in the new big house had the ulterior motive of also wanting the house torn down so that they had more parking for when all their friends and acquaintances came over. 

 

Otherwise agree.  Shame on the Maloofs.  Especially if the Columbia would have been able to remain had the Stanley been torn down instead (since that is likely to happen anyway).    Only now we would have lost both as well as haveing a strange/odd hole, in the welcome center. 

^ I think the Columbia was DOA once Gilbert bought it. The only reason Stanley block is standing is because of the ownership dispute. Rock Gaming wanted that whole block for the parking structure. They're just making do with the Stanley block being there.

 

If it comes down, how difficult is it for Rock to build into that space, given that they've already built around the building?

We either need the apply the zoning and landmark preservation laws to everyone, regardless of wealth and political clout, or just go the way of Houston and get rid of zoning and let owners who buy buildings do whatever they want with it, including leveling it.

 

What we can't let happen is to have laws applied to some people, and not others. 

 

I agree that the Columbia was DOA when Gilbert bought it, however if someone else had bought it and wanted to make it a garage, it would still be standing.

Well.... if the other stakeholders say you don't have 'control' over the property, then what can you do to rehab it?  Besides, we all know why Rock bought an interest in it and it wasn't to fund any long neglected repairs.

 

I think that's one of the key pieces of missing info that makes this whole thing tough to read.  It's possible that Maloof really does want to redevelop/rehab the site now that there is a major customer generator across the street and Rock Gaming is cynically contesting control just to ensure that the building deteriorates, so it has to be demoed for more parking.  I sense that people don't buy this given Maloof's track record (though in fairness, that property is much more viable as a project now than it has been years, given the Casino).  Obviously it could also be that Rock Gaming really does have a bone fide claim on control and that Maloof is just shaking them down.  Impossible to know from the outside.  I am completely amazed, however, that Micron's governing docs would allow for the sale of such a large chunk of ownership without Maloof's consent in the first place.

 

I'm a little confused how we got here though.  Didn't Rock Gaming more or less hold out the possibility that the Stanley could be saved in order to get consent for the Columbia demo?  But meanwhile they've been contesting control for the Stanely so they can knock it down too?  Did the city just get get totally played or was this just eyewash to get the preservationists to kiss off till it was too late to save anything?  Or do I have the timeline wrong?

I'm a little confused how we got here though.  Didn't Rock Gaming more or less hold out the possibility that the Stanley could be saved in order to get consent for the Columbia demo?  But meanwhile they've been contesting control for the Stanely so they can knock it down too?  Did the city just get get totally played or was this just eyewash to get the preservationists to kiss off till it was too late to save anything?  Or do I have the timeline wrong?

 

Do you remember the renderings Rock Gaming released?  They intentionally left the Stanley looking absolutely decrepit in the middle of their sparkly new hot wheels garage. The fact that they didn't even spend 5 minutes of photoshopping to make the Stanley look good spoke volumes...they wanted the place gone asap.

 

However we got to this point, we're not left with any real options beyond demo.  And this was probably true 10 years ago but nobody cared then.

 

Did you read the article?

 

Yes...?

 

My interpretation of it leads me to believe demo is the only real option left.  I'm thinking these "renovation plans" are somewhere between remote and completely bogus.   

 

If you want to say that "you think" demo is the most likely outcome fine.  But the article doesn't support your original claim that it is the only real option.

 

I'm a little confused how we got here though.  Didn't Rock Gaming more or less hold out the possibility that the Stanley could be saved in order to get consent for the Columbia demo?  But meanwhile they've been contesting control for the Stanely so they can knock it down too?  Did the city just get get totally played or was this just eyewash to get the preservationists to kiss off till it was too late to save anything?  Or do I have the timeline wrong?

 

I don't remember if Rock Gaming ever did that intentionally, or if it was just some discussion here on this board.  But it should be a good lesson to people never to fall for divide and conquer.  The minute you begin bargaining with someone using a divide and conquer strategy, you're lost.

^Yeah, looking back, I think you're right.  They wanted the whole block but left the Stanley Block out, not because they were offering anything, but simply because they didn't yet control it and had to break ground without it.

 

If the Stanley Block gets demoed, would still be nice to see a retail space get built there, even if the parking decks are extended to fill in the space above.

You all know how much I hate conspiracy theories.... but has anyone considered the possiblity that the owners are simply posturing with the rehab desires and are holding out for a windfall offer to sell their stake which hasn't come yet due to the ongoing dispute?

 

 

We either need the apply the zoning and landmark preservation laws to everyone, regardless of wealth and political clout, or just go the way of Houston and get rid of zoning and let owners who buy buildings do whatever they want with it, including leveling it.

 

What we can't let happen is to have laws applied to some people, and not others. 

 

Variances are a key component of zoning.  Without providing an entire essay, suffice it to say that zoning laws would be constitutionally questionable and much more easily invalidated without a procedure to apply for and potentially obtain variances.

^I think he's calling for neutral application of all land use controls, which presumably would include variances.  (And it's tough to argue that wealth/power are hardships :) )

 

You all know how much I hate conspiracy theories.... but has anyone considered the possiblity that the owners are simply posturing with the rehab desires and are holding out for a windfall offer to sell their stake which hasn't come yet due to the ongoing dispute?

 

You mean the Maloofs and Rock Gaming together?  If they were on the same page, couldn't they just sit on their building without the litigation?  It doesn't sound like the ongoing litigation is really slowing down the city's pursuit of a demolition order.  Staged litigation sounds a little far fetched to me, but who knows.

No.  I'm talking about the Maloofs.

 

^I think he's calling for neutral application of all land use controls

 

I hate conspiracy theories

 

 

For instance, did you see how quickly the plan for turning a few floors of the May Company building into parking was shot down by city hall?  Now if Rock Gaming had owned the May Company building and wanted that parking (with an overhead walkway) what would city hall say then?

For instance, did you see how quickly the plan for turning a few floors of the May Company building into parking was shot down by city hall?  Now if Rock Gaming had owned the May Company building and wanted that parking (with an overhead walkway) what would city hall say then?

 

In this hypothetical is this May Company garage IN ADDITION to the "Columbia+" garage, or instead of the Columbia+?  I feel like the city would have ok'd an initial parking garage in the May Company, like the one seen earlier in this thread, especially if the garage did not include the side fronting Public Square.  I think even Gilbert would be hard pressed to get the go-ahead for a second garage there now.  I could most definitely be wrong and just hopeful though :-/

No.  I'm talking about the Maloofs.

 

Sorry, your conspiracy reference threw me; I thought you were referring to the two different ownership groups.  Yes, I agree that the Maloofs simply trying to shake more money out of Rock Gaming is the most likely story here.

 

The first table game arrived today.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

Noticed that the Horseshoe site is now a bit updated - and includes info about the 3 food court restaurants with a hint that the 3rd restaurant might be a local pizza place, in addition to Corky & Lenny's and B-Spot... "Our grab-and-go food court offers three distinct local flavors and will please the palette whether you are in the mood for a heaping sandwich, American fare or a piping hot slice of pizza."  There is also info about the buffet - and hours for food court and buffet. "Restaurant partners" not yet announced - but hotel partners are... (Ritz-Carlton, Renaissance, Marriott)

 

There's also info on the parking (free for certain folks) and gambling part, including the all-important words "due to Ohio alcohol laws, alcoholic drinks are not complimentary"

Forgot to post this, from yesterday:

 

Cleveland casino construction nearing completion

Published: Thursday, March 29, 2012, 12:00 PM    Updated: Thursday, March 29, 2012, 5:21 PM

  By Thomas Ott, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Construction of the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland is almost done, leaving paperwork as the bigger obstacle to opening in mid-May.

 

May 14 remains the target date for opening the first of four Ohio casinos authorized by voters in 2009, said Jeffrey Cohen, a principal in Dan Gilbert's Rock Gaming LLC and head of the construction project. Rock Gaming owns the Cleveland casino in a joint venture with Caesars Entertainment.

 

Matthew Schuler, executive director of the Ohio Casino Control Commission, is not certain the casino will debut exactly on May 14 but is hopeful it will open that week.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_horseshoe_casinos_op.html

Stanley Block ownership is deadlocked; judge rules that casino group holds 50 percent stake

Published: Thursday, March 29, 2012, 8:36 PM    Updated: Thursday, March 29, 2012, 8:36 PM

  By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The company that owns the Stanley Block building is deadlocked -- a situation that might lead to dissolution of the ownership group and the sale of its only asset, the small building on Ontario Street in downtown Cleveland.

 

A Cuyahoga County judge ruled Thursday in favor of 2115-2121 Ontario Building LLC, a company affiliated with casino developer Rock Ohio Caesars LLC.

 

Common Pleas Court Judge John P. O'Donnell concluded that the casino group holds 50 percent of Macron Investment Co., the company that owns the Stanley Block. The other shareholders, members of the Maloof and Anter families, claimed that they owned nearly 51 percent of the shares in Macron, and therefore controlled the property.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/03/stanley_block_ownership_is_dea.html

A deadlock is probably a win for the Casino. A forced sale means they'll likely be the highest bidder, unless there's a white knight out there.

 

Who knows, maybe they'll keep it and do something creative - it seems silly to just blow it up at this point, given that the garage/welcome center (which looks fairly nice, I guess) can no longer benefit from its subtraction. What would they do with the empty space?

What would they do with the empty space?

 

Surface parking lot.

 

Britains got talent buzzer!

Forgot to post this, from yesterday:

 

 

Thanks. That actually doesn't look terrible. Still wish the Columbia would have survived but its time to move on.

Forgot to post this, from yesterday:

 

 

Imagine a rooftop patio on the welcome center....with direct access into the upper floors of the Stanley Building. Imagine the views. It would be a win-win for the casino and for preservation.

 

All it would take is some forward thinking and coordination.

 

What are the chances for that?

What would they do with the empty space?

 

Surface parking lot.

 

Britains got talent buzzer!

"plaza of connectivity"

 

My uninformed guess is that they would just build some more welcome center, hopefully with some retail/restaurant space.

 

I have no idea how much the renovation costs would be for the Stanley Block, but I am slightly surprised Rock Gaming hasn't shown more interest in assuming full control of the building and just redeveloping it itself.  I understand wanting to erase an eyesore, but demo and new construction isn't the only way to do that.  Probably the cheaper way though.

Probably. And they might even design it just like the Stanley Block it replaced and call it even.

Window coverings are mostly down exposing new curtains

I HATE to admit it, but the parking garage doesn't look half bad in its current state. If it were replacing a surface lot somewhere I would be rather happy with it being built up to the street and having retail.

What I found amazing about this build was that it went up like a lego kit (save for the concrete deck pours); all of the prefabricated peices basically snapped together to give you what you see now.  That elevator tower went from ground level to the height it's at now in about a day and a half.

I have friend (FB friend) who will be a dealer at the Casino.  He's been going through training for months now.  He's apparently not allowed to post pictures, but says the inside is amazing and really well done...didn't go cheap.  Personally, I'm excited to check it out.

They even went upscale with the lanes in the parking garage. It's like inset stone or something instead of just plain concrete with painted lines. The fanciest parking garage I've seen (at least around here, anyway).

Is that kind of like the luxurious lanes of Seinfeld fame?

What ground level retail is going into the Parking Gara-- er, Welcome Center?

It's not much but I snapped this picture on way to rapid last night.  Looks like some slots across from the Tilted Kilt.  The parking garage also has these snazzy blue lights it looks like at night but I couldn't get a good pic of them.

I do have a question about this Horseshoe Casino/Tower City thing.  I was in Cleveland this past Sunday with a couple of UrbanOhioans (+ dinner with MayDay) and I was noticing how nice the casino was coming along but what irked me was the large yet strangely aggressive homeless population/loiterers outside of Tower City on Public Square and on the sidewalks of the casino.  I thought to myself, "the casino looks nice but if people walk outside facing Public Square seeing that, then that might not make the nicest impression."  Is there some sort of solution to this issue?  Is the casino stepping in and helping with social services to perhaps house some homeless in a St. Vincent hotel or something?  Several UrbanOhioans I was with noted the issue would perhaps deter either suburbanites or out-of-towners from experiencing that whole Public Square space in front of the casino.