October 15, 200915 yr A small time gambler can always get 1 or 2 free meals each visit at the Indiana casinos.
October 15, 200915 yr A genuine question, not intended to be snarky, but do people actually plan vacations just to gamble? I know in Las Vegas it is a big part of it, but its the whole sin city aspect of it as well draws people. I think in this case I would believe anecdotal evidence than either pro/con gambling studies. Yes, I know people who plan trips to specifically go to Casinos in neighboring states. And having gone with them on occassion, I also see the high volumes of Ohio plates in the parking lot. And this is seperate from the day bus trip people, who I also know exist.
October 15, 200915 yr I laugh when I hear the notion that people actually think these casinos will be some sort of draw for vacationers or high end rollers with cash to burn. If many of the major cities have them...and the surrounding states as well..... What is the incentive to go see basically the same thing, whether in state of from out of state? Most of the patrons will be locals and many of those will be spending their last pennies at the slots thinking they're going to hit pay dirt. Kind of like the mentality that banks on the lottery win to end one's problems. Bottom line is this is not economic development that is sustainable and fosters a healthy populace. We should not rely on building an economy around situations that breed dysfunction. Onl;y a few really benefit in the long run, and the costs to all are often hidden but visually evident in society. The aspiration for all this is very average and non-creative. Let's be forced by the gaming industry---we who they see as desperate for any work that comes along at any cost---to join a bandwagon that says "If you don't do this you're losing money" We should not have had to rely on this for any money source to begin with. It'll probably pass this time because the deception is so great... But I have again, already voted a big fat NO!
October 15, 200915 yr Casinos themselves will not be a destination in Cleveland. But, my hope and the hope of many others is that it will be PART of a larger group of destinations that will make Cleveland a viable place for a long weekend. I still think the Indians & Cavs (and maybe the Browns) will be the larger draw for many out-of-towners. But in the mode of the "stay-cations" or closer vacations, a Cleveland 3-day weekend filled with an Indians (or Cavs) game, Rock HOF, Aquarium or Great Lakes Science Center and Casino makes sense. And, of course, for the business traveler that has business at the Med Mart/Convention Center, all these items help make Cleveland more appealing. And, if nothing else, I believe in the "keeping up with the Joneses" theory. If everyone else has it (Casino), we should too. Hopefully it is done right.
October 15, 200915 yr I laugh when I hear the notion that people actually think these casinos will be some sort of draw for vacationers or high end rollers with cash to burn. If many of the major cities have them...and the surrounding states as well..... What is the incentive to go see basically the same thing, whether in state of from out of state? Most of the patrons will be locals and many of those will be spending their last pennies at the slots thinking they're going to hit pay dirt. Kind of like the mentality that banks on the lottery win to end one's problems. Bottom line is this is not economic development that is sustainable and fosters a healthy populace. We should not rely on building an economy around situations that breed dysfunction. Onl;y a few really benefit in the long run, and the costs to all are often hidden but visually evident in society. The aspiration for all this is very average and non-creative. Let's be forced by the gaming industry---we who they see as desperate for any work that comes along at any cost---to join a bandwagon that says "If you don't do this you're losing money" We should not have had to rely on this for any money source to begin with. It'll probably pass this time because the deception is so great... But I have again, already voted a big fat NO! What deception do you speak of? I voted YES on this Issue last night btw. Our votes are now meaningless... :-D
October 15, 200915 yr One thing that everybody is missing in all of this discussion. A casino in Cleveland means that there will be $10-$25 bus trips from everywhere within a 2-4 hour drive of Cleveland. Will somebody in Erie PA pay 20 dollars to get on a bus to Cleveland for a day? Or $10 from Oberlin? or $5 from Canton? These are people who are currently getting on Buses (or in their cars) and driving to Niagara Falls, Detroit, Windsor, PA, and WV.... You really think people in Youngstown wont come up on Friday after work or Saturday afternoon go to the casino and THEN to the browns game? Or Drive up on Friday night, spend a night at the casino and then go to the Tribe game? Extra hotel night and 3 extra meals eaten somewhere. Heck you might even get somebody to come from St. Louis, or Louisville, or even Denver....Football Hall of fame, rock and roll hall of fame, 3 major sports teams....and now they have a casino...someplace people from not from here KNOW is there and they can spend X # of hours in. We all know about the great stuff to do here..how many people know what the Goodtime III or the Nautica Queen are?...or what a great neighborhood Little Italy or Tremont are? or that Playhouse square, the Orchestra, and the Art Museum exist? Or how great E 4th and the Warehouse district are. Everybody I have ever met who has actually been to Cleveland is more than pleasantly surprised and how great it is (except for a large minority of folks that live here). Give them 1 more reason to come here just once and it will pay off tremendously. Even if it is "Cleveland is great I got off the airplane got on a train in the airport and 20 minutes later I was checked into my hotel and in the casino never having to go outside and all it cost was $2.25". Baltimore and Chicago both have flights here for around $100...You watch those people come piling in here for the Casino + whatever other thing floats their boat like the Tribe playing the white sox or the Oriels. Hell it is cheaper to fly here, get a hotel room for the weekend and go to 2 Tribe Yankees games than it is to buy a ticket to Yankee stadium. Throw in a Casino???? you will double the number of people getting on a bus or plane to come here. The Cavs they know, the RR HOF they know...A casino the will KNOW that they can go kill a day at. And at least some of those people will ask you or me or the hotel concierge, front desk worker, or the person sitting next to them at Progressive Field or the Q, where to eat, or what else there is to do in this town. And I will still go to gamble in Vegas, AC, Windsor, Detroit, Niagara falls, and Pittsburgh because in all of those places I know I can gamble AND see a game, a show, a band, eat at Primanti brothers, get Duty Free, or watch the tribe play the home team. See I wont travel JUST to gamble, but it certainly gets into the decision matrix.
October 15, 200915 yr I laugh when I hear the notion that people actually think these casinos will be some sort of draw for vacationers or high end rollers with cash to burn. If many of the major cities have them...and the surrounding states as well..... What is the incentive to go see basically the same thing, whether in state of from out of state? Most of the patrons will be locals and many of those will be spending their last pennies at the slots thinking they're going to hit pay dirt. Kind of like the mentality that banks on the lottery win to end one's problems. Bottom line is this is not economic development that is sustainable and fosters a healthy populace. We should not rely on building an economy around situations that breed dysfunction. Onl;y a few really benefit in the long run, and the costs to all are often hidden but visually evident in society. The aspiration for all this is very average and non-creative. Let's be forced by the gaming industry---we who they see as desperate for any work that comes along at any cost---to join a bandwagon that says "If you don't do this you're losing money" We should not have had to rely on this for any money source to begin with. It'll probably pass this time because the deception is so great... But I have again, already voted a big fat NO! What deception do you speak of?
October 15, 200915 yr ^Not anymore. Most restaurants in a casino on the vegas strip are very high end and even the food court options can be fairly expensive. Dinner buffets cost $25 - $30. The MGM in Detroit is mostly high end, the Greektown has a lot more less expensive food, but its not like their giving it away. Its really only the older vegas casino's that still have the $3.99 steak dinner. Where are you dining in Vegas? Also, what do you consider "expensive"? Last time I went to Vegas was in May and we stayed at ph. It was more of a midrange vegas hotel and only had 2 upscale restaurants (a steak house and Koi) the mid-range restaurants were pf changs, a similarly priced mexican place, etc. There were also some fast food options. But there were definitely no $3.99 steak dinners type places that you see in downtown las vegas or at a place like the Orleans or Terribles. I did get comped a free buffet, which for dinner would have cost, I think, $35. So while not every place is Joel Rubichon's $250 tasting menu, they aren't drawing people in with free food either. Usually when I go to vegas it's for a conference, and its at Mandalay, Venetian, Ceasar's or Bellagio. Pretty much every restaurant at those hotels are medium to higher end...definitely not trying to lure you with food specials.
October 15, 200915 yr ^Not anymore. Most restaurants in a casino on the vegas strip are very high end and even the food court options can be fairly expensive. Dinner buffets cost $25 - $30. The MGM in Detroit is mostly high end, the Greektown has a lot more less expensive food, but its not like their giving it away. Its really only the older vegas casino's that still have the $3.99 steak dinner. Where are you dining in Vegas? Also, what do you consider "expensive"? Last time I went to Vegas was in May and we stayed at ph. It was more of a midrange vegas hotel and only had 2 upscale restaurants (a steak house and Koi) the mid-range restaurants were pf changs, a similarly priced mexican place, etc. There were also some fast food options. But there were definitely no $3.99 steak dinners type places that you see in downtown las vegas or at a place like the Orleans or Terribles. I did get comped a free buffet, which for dinner would have cost, I think, $35. So while not every place is Joel Rubichon's $250 tasting menu, they aren't drawing people in with free food either. Usually when I go to vegas it's for a conference, and its at Mandalay, Venetian, Ceasar's or Bellagio. Pretty much every restaurant at those hotels are medium to higher end...definitely not trying to lure you with food specials. You could have gone to the Barbary Coast right on the corner or LV Blvd and Flamingo. Breakfast for $6, IIRC. Prime Rib for $13 and some damn good prime rib.
October 15, 200915 yr ^Like I said, only the old casinos have those deals...and I think Barbary Coast changed names...I can't remember what it is but it surprised me last time I was there.
October 15, 200915 yr Everybody I have ever met who has actually been to Cleveland is more than pleasantly surprised and how great it is (except for a large minority of folks that live here). No truer words have ever been spoken. By and large, the biggest problem with Cleveland is Clevelanders. It's a great city, but one with any unfair ego problem because of a collection of has-beens and never-wases that live here. This isn't the UO crowd. I agree with those that believe that a casino will further fuel those within driving distance to come here who might otherwise not. Ever been to Mountaineer? Well, if it passes, you'll be able to do the same, but not in BFE West Virginia. A revived Flats would be "wild and wonderful" in their own way. No, a casino will not be a panacea, but with most neighboring states currently having gambling, why not?
October 16, 200915 yr ^Like I said, only the old casinos have those deals...and I think Barbary Coast changed names...I can't remember what it is but it surprised me last time I was there. Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel:
October 16, 200915 yr ^Like I said, only the old casinos have those deals...and I think Barbary Coast changed names...I can't remember what it is but it surprised me last time I was there. Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel: Shut up! When did that happen??
October 16, 200915 yr ^Like I said, only the old casinos have those deals...and I think Barbary Coast changed names...I can't remember what it is but it surprised me last time I was there. Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel: Shut up! When did that happen?? ^Over two years ago, March 07 I believe. BTW I've looked at some of the possible locations and it seems that in the mix is the old post office next to the Ritz. Is this correct or am I reading this wrong?
October 16, 200915 yr ^Like I said, only the old casinos have those deals...and I think Barbary Coast changed names...I can't remember what it is but it surprised me last time I was there. Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel: Shut up! When did that happen?? ^Over two years ago, March 07 I believe. BTW I've looked at some of the possible locations and it seems that in the mix is the old post office next to the Ritz. Is this correct or am I reading this wrong? The post office has been turned into offices. Unless those people are going to be relocted and that entire building gutted, which I don't think can happen. The parking lot of TC is the best bet!
October 16, 200915 yr ^"The parking lot of TC is the best bet!" I agree and have been very specific as to where and why on that site but this is the language from the state website: (b) the property situated south of W. Prospect Avenue, east of W. 6th Street, north of W. Huron Road and west of Ontario Street. By that description I'm thinking they must be referring to the old post office building; what else? If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf
October 16, 200915 yr ^"The parking lot of TC is the best bet!" I agree and have been very specific as to where and why on that site but this is the language from the state website: (b) the property situated south of W. Prospect Avenue, east of W. 6th Street, north of W. Huron Road and west of Ontario Street. By that description I'm thinking they must be referring to the old post office building; what else? If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf Thats pretty much the boundary of Forest Cities property (all of Tower City), minus the parking area, which is south of Huron.
October 16, 200915 yr ^Exactly, so which of those existing structures is most viable? Dude, honestly, I think you're reading to much into the location. I don't think they've pinpointed one spot, but I would doubt that they would be able to carve out that much space in one of the existing building NOR would the connectivity be appropriate. I would be willing to bet, that space proposed by TC is the same space they wanted to use for the medical mart. A casino attached to the mall would do wonders. Example
October 16, 200915 yr Author If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf How about this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&ll=41.493921,-81.690645&spn=0.015365,0.0418&z=15
October 16, 200915 yr If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf How about this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&ll=41.493921,-81.690645&spn=0.015365,0.0418&z=15 That's great, thanks! I interpreted "e" differently, though... I took it to mean the open pit directly in front of the giant LeBron and the side of the Landmark Office Towers (hence, "air rights.")
October 16, 200915 yr I think I read that gilbert said he wanted a pedestrian bridge to the Q. so if he had his way, it would be one of those immediately adjacent lots. He also said he wanted the new convention center to be between the location for the casino that he wants and tower city. For whatever that is worth.
October 17, 200915 yr I think I read that gilbert said he wanted a pedestrian bridge to the Q. so if he had his way, it would be one of those immediately adjacent lots. He also said he wanted the new convention center to be between the location for the casino that he wants and tower city. For whatever that is worth. if its over the parking lots there can be a connection to Gateway and TC. His medical mart talk is non sense, as that location is a done deal.
October 17, 200915 yr Author I think I read that gilbert said he wanted a pedestrian bridge to the Q. There's already a pedestrian tunnel that runs from the Tower City food court under Huron to The Q. If the casino was built on the parking lots between Tower City and the river, I would think adding a casino entrance off that tunnel would be pretty easy.
October 17, 200915 yr ^Exactly, so which of those existing structures is most viable? Dude, honestly, I think you're reading to much into the location. I don't think they've pinpointed one spot, but I would doubt that they would be able to carve out that much space in one of the existing building NOR would the connectivity be appropriate. I would be willing to bet, that space proposed by TC is the same space they wanted to use for the medical mart. A casino attached to the mall would do wonders. Example I like that location for a major entertainment venue. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 17, 200915 yr If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf How about this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&ll=41.493921,-81.690645&spn=0.015365,0.0418&z=15 Thanks for the effort jborger!
October 21, 200915 yr Author Ohio's Issue 3 an important part of downtown Cleveland development From the article: "Normally, if a developer said he wanted to spend his own money to build a brand new entertainment facility in downtown Cleveland, everyone in Northeast Ohio would be cheering for it. Unless, of course, that facility was a casino." Main points are: the stigma gambling has in Ohio benefits from a development standpoint of having a casino in downtown Cleveland links to location maps links to supporters of Issue 3 comparing fears of casino taking away business from others to fear of East Fourth Street development the "We should be focused on other areas" argument the "It didn't work in other cities" argument Read the complete article at http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-6824-Downtown-Cleveland-Examiner~y2009m10d20-Ohios-Issue-3-an-important-part-of-downtown-Cleveland-development
October 21, 200915 yr I do NOT like the Canal Road site. Scranton Peninsula would not be catastrophic but, of the three sites from the map linked in that article, the area behind TC is a no-brainer IMHO.... especially if it is built up to street level (like the old renderings of the CC/MM), providing a presence on the south side of Huron Rd. A front door on Huron would do wonders for that part of downtown.
October 21, 200915 yr I do NOT like the Canal Road site. Scranton Peninsula would not be catastrophic but, of the three sites from the map linked in that article, the area behind TC is a no-brainer IMHO.... especially if it is built up to street level (like the old renderings of the CC/MM), providing a presence on the south side of Huron Rd. A front door on Huron would do wonders for that part of downtown. What he said...Parking underneath and a three or four story presence on Huron would be ideal. We could finally get that side of TC "capped" off instead of looking like somebody cut a building in half...
October 21, 200915 yr Agreed, aside from that big fender strat, there is just nothing on Huron and that location helps fill in that area. However, I am extremely worried about how this thing is going to look. The early "futuristic" renderings might stand out like a sore thumb in that area. It would be much much more appropriate to simply have the place blend in with the existing architecture. I do NOT like the Canal Road site. Scranton Peninsula would not be catastrophic but, of the three sites from the map linked in that article, the area behind TC is a no-brainer IMHO.... especially if it is built up to street level (like the old renderings of the CC/MM), providing a presence on the south side of Huron Rd. A front door on Huron would do wonders for that part of downtown. What he said...Parking underneath and a three or four story presence on Huron would be ideal. We could finally get that side of TC "capped" off instead of looking like somebody cut a building in half...
October 22, 200915 yr A roman forum type style connected to the back of TT might work architecturally and from a business point of view.
October 22, 200915 yr ^Ugh. I hope you are not talking about the type of pseudo-Greek/Roman style architecture used on certain chain restaraunts. The TC developers had some success IMO blending Skylight Office Tower and the Ritz, but for the Casino, I don't see anything wrong with something that stands out.
October 22, 200915 yr A roman forum type style connected to the back of TT might work architecturally and from a business point of view. Dear Lord... If that's what this ends up being I now oppose this issue.
October 22, 200915 yr I don't care if it's modern or traditional, so long as it looks better than the pole barns that pass for casinos in some states... Million Dollar Elm in Tulsa for example: Maybe we could just tack the Fender Strat on the side of the casino... I do kind of like the style of the River Spirit Casino in Tulsa:
October 23, 200915 yr /\/\ That River Spirit is one of the first con temporarily designed casinos I've seen, which is funny b/c when you go to Vegas the outside and gaming areas are classically cheesy, but the restaurants and rooms are contemporary. I guess you could say Casino Windsor is a nice design, considering...
October 23, 200915 yr A roman forum type style connected to the back of TT might work architecturally and from a business point of view. Dear Lord... If that's what this ends up being I now oppose this issue. If built in back of TT/TC, then maybe a beaux arts design in keeping with the existing buildings
October 23, 200915 yr I kind of like the design in the rendering. I think that'd look fine across from TC. I don't see why they have to match in design.
October 23, 200915 yr If we get anything close to those 2 hillbilly casinos pictured above, we are in trouble. With a promised 500 million+ towards construction of a new casino "without a hotel', I can only hope Dan Gilbert will spare no expense when it comes to the design. You can do alot of damage with 500 million.
October 24, 200915 yr If we get anything close to those 2 hillbilly casinos pictured above, we are in trouble. With a promised 500 million+ towards construction of a new casino "without a hotel', I can only hope Dan Gilbert will spare no expense when it comes to the design. You can do alot of damage with 500 million. Yeah that makes no damn sense. However, the way I read it, is that does not mean that the FC/the Rats cannot build a hotel in their own complex. Remember Harrah is built in the middle of NoLa and could not build a hotel. They opened in '99 and couldn't build a hotel for 5 years. They broke ground for their own hotel on parking lot property in '05. In the meantime, other hotels opened around it. The W, The Wyndam, and the Hilton added on. However, there is one thing to remember is that NoLa's economy is based on tourism and the casinos in Ohio are being built as an added/additional attraction to the local economy.
October 24, 200915 yr However, there is one thing to remember is that NoLa's economy is based on tourism and the casinos in Ohio are being built as an added/additional attraction to the local economy. Not only tourism, but still has a fairly thriving convention business (by post-911 standards), putting it in the top 5 nationally.
October 24, 200915 yr Author I don't understand why people seem to be upset about a hotel not being attached to the casino right now. Cleveland's hotel vacancy rate is fairly high. I don't know if another hotel is needed right now, unless it was a 500+ room hotel, which would make more sense to be attached to the new convention center than the casino. Not having a hotel attached to the casino could make people look elsewhere for lodging, getting people out of the casino and into the rest of downtown. Plus, they're already building a new hotel on the Flats East Bank...
October 24, 200915 yr However, there is one thing to remember is that NoLa's economy is based on tourism and the casinos in Ohio are being built as an added/additional attraction to the local economy. Not only tourism, but still has a fairly thriving convention business (by post-911 standards), putting it in the top 5 nationally. My special events and conference staff just had a meeting on this. Based on the largest 400 domestic conventions Best cities to have Convention or Conference. 1. Chicago 2. Las Vegas 3. Washington, DC (metro area) 4. Orlando 5. Atlanta (metro) 6. Dallas 7. San Francisco (bay area metro) 8. Nashville 9. San Diego 10. New Orleans FYI Cleveland was 19 Best Cities for non convention or conference Business Travelers 1. Chicago 2. Los Angeles-Long Beach (LA metro) 3. Washington, DC (metro area) 4. New York (tri state metro area) 5. Atlanta (metro) 6. Houston 7. Boston (metro area) 8. Minneapolis-St. Paul (metro) 9. Dallas 10. Detroit 11. Cleveland (doesn't include akron/canton or youngstown) With the new convention center and hotel, I expect our status to rise, since the cities in the south (atlanta, dallas, nola) fell. Orlando, Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, PHX, Tampa all will be hurt the next few years. If you look at the first list. All those cities have the following: [*]Large hub airport (sans Nashville, NoLa and San Diego) [*]Atleast two convention size hotels [*]Super Large Convention Center If you look at list number 2, you'll notice those cities have the following: [*]Large Hub Airport except Cleveland and Boston [*]Multiple International Entry Point [*]Rail transportation system [*]Super Large Convention Center [*]Various Hotel Brands from Luxury High end to budget [*]Various Hotel Program choices
October 24, 200915 yr I don't understand why people seem to be upset about a hotel not being attached to the casino right now. Cleveland's hotel vacancy rate is fairly high. I don't know if another hotel is needed right now, unless it was a 500+ room hotel, which would make more sense to be attached to the new convention center than the casino. Not having a hotel attached to the casino could make people look elsewhere for lodging, getting people out of the casino and into the rest of downtown. Plus, they're already building a new hotel on the Flats East Bank... [*]What is the vacancy rate? [*]What is it compared to other cities? I feel if we do not build at least two 700 room hotels, we'll have built a convention center for nothing. It's half stepping. They need to be strong international brands. So what if a hotel is going into the flats, with the expected uptick in business and convention travel all the extra rooms are needed. If it's the "planned" hotel one, that will be more like a boutique property not a chain which is needed since they already have Brand loyalty (frequent stay programs) Built in marketing and name recognition for the brand World class convention services Nobody wants to stay in a hampton inn. We have a HUGE hole in our hotel offereings. No Hilton, Doubletree, Conrad, W, Westin, Sheraton, Le Meridien, St. Regis, Grand Hyatt, Park Hyatt, Swiss hotel, Peninsula, Fairmount, Four Seasons. In todays market we need at least a Hilton, Westn & a Sheraton. To garner the hip crowd we need a W. We don't one SPG property in the city. We've only got one luxury property in downtown and two in the region. I'm not saying we need to go luxury crazy, but we need to have OPTIONS and choices and give people a reason to stay in the city. Right now the Marriott brands control our market.
October 24, 200915 yr The Cleveland market, which includes roughly 21,300 rooms in Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties, saw its occupancy rate fall 6.2 percent, to 56.8 percent. For the US as a whole it showed an average of 56.7% occupancy - this was out just 2 days ago. New Orleans' at 42.5 percent occupancy was the lowest NYC at 84.7 percent was the highest http://blog.al.com/press-register-business/2009/10/new_orleans_hotel_occupancy_dr.html http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2009/09/mt-preview-0caabccef4e40c2d54bca175a91abb02fc357d16.html
October 24, 200915 yr The Cleveland market, which includes roughly 21,300 rooms in Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties, saw its occupancy rate fall 6.2 percent, to 56.8 percent. For the US as a whole it showed an average of 56.7% occupancy - this was out just 2 days ago. New Orleans' at 42.5 percent occupancy was the lowest NYC at 84.7 percent was the highest http://blog.al.com/press-register-business/2009/10/new_orleans_hotel_occupancy_dr.html http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2009/09/mt-preview-0caabccef4e40c2d54bca175a91abb02fc357d16.html The first article I was aware of the second thanks. This is why I didn't understand why jborger and whipjacka made the comments they did. My point, we're on par with the country, but when the economy bounces back we'll be left behind because we don't have a diverse group of properties. We need new properties to advertise to conventions. We have two big INTERNATIONAL events coming up and we need to start building NOW!
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