Here's an interesting write-up about Chicago's Millenium Park:

 

The Value of an Urban Park

Where Money Grows on Trees

 

Ask people to value an urban park and they might talk about the benefits of recreation or how green spaces can keep city air cleaner and temperatures cooler in summers. Or they might talk about social capital and how parks offer gathering places for conversation and celebrations. But Chicago’s new downtown park, Millennium Park, is adding another value: that of cold, hard cash.

 

Millennium Park opened in 2004 with two big strikes against it. It was four years late. (It was supposed to have opened in the millennium year.) And it was embarrassingly expensive. Originally budgeted at $150 million, the park’s final cost was $475 million. But when people laid eyes on this 25-acre jewel of a park, which is part green space and part art space, none of that mattered. Since opening day, crowds have been drawn to its stunning sculptures and playful architecture.

 

And, it turns out, so are real estate developers. A study this year by Chicago’s planning department estimated that Millennium Park would create $1.4 billion in residential development in the next decade. How? Because the park has created a huge demand for apartments and condos nearby. “Millennium Park has become a status symbol, a focal point, a magnet for the surrounding neighborhood, making properties around the park extremely desirable,” a real estate analyst told the Chicago Tribune.

 

What makes this all the more impressive is that the East Loop area, where the park is located, wasn’t a very desirable neighborhood before 2004. It “was an eyesore with railroad tracks and parking lots,” a development consultant told the Tribune. “Now, it is a premium environment.”

 

Is this a fluke, or could another new urban park have a similar impact? We may find out in the years ahead as Atlanta moves forward with its Beltline project. On the surface, the Beltline is nothing like Millennium Park. It’s a 22-mile circuit of abandoned rail corridors, some in gentrifying areas, others in poor neighborhoods. The idea: Use this corridor to create a ribbon of parks, trails and light-rail transit circling the city. But clearly Atlanta officials are expecting something like the Millennium Park effect to occur near the Beltline.

 

Among other things, they’ll need a wave of development to pay for the park. Under the city’s plan, the Beltline would be built and maintained with tax-allocation financing, which uses future increases in property tax assessments to pay for today’s improvements. No rise in property values, no repayment of the debt.

 

But could the Beltline’s impact be anything like Millennium Park’s? If not, it won’t be for lack of ambition. As the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported recently, advocates predict that, in the next quarter-century, the Beltline’s impact on Atlanta will rank with “the arrival of professional sports teams, the growth of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport ... and the [1996] Olympic Games.”

 

 

-So my question is, where is the best place in Cleveland to leverage park space to create residential development?

 

Personally, I would love to see Scranton Peninsula utilized as a large recreational park, with softball fields, a public marina, a rowing center, and other uses.  You could link it in to the Towpath Trail.  I think this would create a ton of residential development in the Flats, downtown, Tremont, and Ohio City. 

 

Burke is another option, but I don't think it creates the same linkage opportunities with the rest of the city.

I'd say we need to focus on some of the parks we allready have and the neighborhoods that surround them. Cleveland seems to neglect their parks, such examples of the park on chesterand & E12 (crappy design), kirtland park (crappy location), rockefellar park (bad neighborhoods, neglected)That being said I would like to see some parks around the edge of scraton peninsula, a nice thick band near the water probably just about as wide (maybe a bit more like the park near sherwin williams)  as the land between scraton rd and the water on the eastern side. I wouldnt want it to be all parks simply because it wount have anyone directly nearby to utilize it and cause $$$ real estate effect

If we want to spur development, consider a site east of downtown, such as near Superior, St. Clair or Payne around the East 20th area. CSU proposes such a park in that area just south of Payne, but I think most of it would be athletic fields (baseball, soccer, etc.). Perhaps a parking lot in that area could be converted to "general purpose" park?

 

I agree there needs to be a park in the Flats. Settlers Landing is pretty decent, but there should be something farther south than that on the Scranton or West 3rd peninsulas.

 

By the way, I think they've done a nice job restoring Rockefeller Park, despite the depressed neighborhoods that surround it.

Agreed, Rockefeller Park is remarkably gorgeous!  And also agreed that parks are a great way to spur development and increase propery values...if they're located in the right place and properly maintained.  For example, the hugenormous Hoyt Street Yards project in Portland, OR that was built along the new streetcar line as a dense new neighborhood of 4-6 story residential structures, included three full blocks of public greenspace.  Each had a different design and use type and were seen as major assets and a way to keep density at a desirable level, while also including open space.  I think it was done very well and has probably proven to make the development all that much better. 

 

So, imagine the Avenue District, but spread out over about 12 city blocks...there's room for this east of there and west of the Innerbelt, around where KJP mentioned.  I'd love to see this area redeveloped as a residential enclave within the Downtown area.  Continue the idea of the Avenue District, but perhaps on a smaller scale.  And incorporate green space to enhance the residential community.  We don't have this in Downtown Cleveland, while most thriving Downtowns do: a primarily residential sector that isn't overrun by night clubs or sports venues.  This is Cleveland's opportunity!

 

For an interesting set of takes on this, have a look at the current issue of the Kent State Urban Design Quarterly.  Several students did a studio on this very neighborhood and they all included significant green space to accompany primarily residential developments.

 

Also, the future prospects of developing the West Bank parking lots, north of Stonebridge, have this same opportunity.

^I totally agree that something incredible could be done with the West Bank surface lots.

^I never thought about that! Good thinking!

Wait, are you being sarcastic???

Nope. I'm serious.

About the West Bank lots?  I figured you'd be all over those!

I can't be all over everything and still expect to keep my sanity!  :-P

I expect a lot from you KJP, but I can let this one slide.  I posted some pics of the lots in question on the Stonebridge Phase 5 thread.  With the potential connection to Whiskey Island and the other developments going on on the East Bank, this seems like a logical place for more big stuff to happen.  If connectivity to Whiskey Island is enhanced with a pedestrian bridge, green space would be less of an issue.  However, if these blocks are developed as they sit today, they would really need a more significant open space to serve a new base of residents.  I'll get some pics together in the coming days...

I agree. But now it's your turn to come up with a diagram!

I swear I'll be more attentive once classes are over in four weeks!  But maybe I'll need a tension breaker somewhere in there where I can turn to this for fun and relaxation!

My vote for a "millenium" type park would be a the expanded North Coast Harbor that Jane had as part of her Lakefront plan.

One of the main attractions in the Chicago park is the band shell, and I think it would be cool to have lakefront musical venue as well as Nautica stage.

 

 

Reviving this thread after a visit to Kirtland Park this morning...

 

I dropped by with my pup after a recommendation from an associate who lives on E. 40th & Payne.  Apparently, this park is jammin during 4th of July fireworks, but I wasn't expecting to find another soul there on this blustery winter day.  I was right...

 

The park fronts the South Marginal @ W. 49th Street and runs west towards E. 40th: 

 

 

The views of the lake are great from the top of the park, but once you're on the lower level, the Shoreway dominates the view.  The rush hour traffic was very distracting at 9:30 am and pretty much ruins any semblance of the peaceful lakefront retreat that this park probably once was.  The park is also cut off from the neighborhoods to the south by active railroad lines and several blocks of industrial properties.

 

The park has a baseball diamond, (complete with stands, lights and an electronic scoreboard) a large grass field, several oddly placed benches, a statue of "lady liberty," and an impressive amphitheater.  The amphitheater is by far the most impressive feature of the park, but it's difficult to imagine it being used for theater or music, with the massive freeway revving and belching just a couple hundred feet away.

 

On the positive side, it's still there and is a feature of the Lakefront Plan:

 

 

Graystone Properties, who own the massive, mixed-use Tyler Village complex on E. 36th & Superior, also own two additional buildings just south of the park on E. 49th.  They see potential in these for similar mixed-use, live-work activities and they are apparently very well-occupied right now with industrial and commercial uses.  Barring significant pressure from neighbors, who are predominantly industrial at present, or a radical change in the alignment of the Shoreway, it appears that this park will likely not see any improvements or increased usage in the near future.  Unless I'm completely missing something here...  Anyone else have any experience with this park?

 

I've never been to kirkland park, but as were driving downtown via the Westside Highway we sat infront of Riverside Park.  I thought why can't Kirkland Park be like Riverside Park, they both are bordered by a highway on the north and a busy street on the south.  You stated its a really nice park.  If the Kirkland area could pick up some residents, and some mixed use converted buildings, that park could really take off.

It really does have potential and it's not that difficult to get to if you know where you're going (compared to Whiskey Island, for example), but there are severe barriers on all sides.  I guess if people are used to driving to Edgewater, then they shouldn't have a problem driving here either.  My personal tendency, however, is to frequent parks that I can walk to from my home.  The Shoreway and its noisy traffic are another tough setback for Kirtland.

It really does have potential and it's not that difficult to get to if you know where you're going (compared to Whiskey Island, for example), but there are severe barriers on all sides.  I guess if people are used to driving to Edgewater, then they shouldn't have a problem driving here either.  My personal tendency, however, is to frequent parks that I can walk to from my home.  The Shoreway and its noisy traffic are another tough setback for Kirtland.

 

As if Riverside drive and the Westside Highway aren't noisy?  I'd like to believe that the westside Highway is closer to RS Park than the shoreway is to Kirkland Park.

Great thread resurrection, MGD; lots to discuss on this topic, no doubt.

 

Cleveland's poor east side lakefront parks: heartbreaking to see the old post cards of Gordon Park and even the park that used to be behind city hall back before the highway and the fill.  Kirtland Park was probably so nice back in the day.

 

Given the scarcity of park money though, and hefty upkeep cost, I'd be more inclined to put dollars into parks closer to where people live...which ain't Kirtland Park.  If somone's gonna drive, they already have better options.

 

 

Here's a question: are there any significant new green spaces planned along the ECP?  Seems to me that if the plan is to encourage midtown to fill in with some decent density, a nice square/park right on Euclid somewhere east of 55th would be a nice amenity.  I understand that there are a few vacant parcels out this way...  If it were up to me, I'd slap the new County Admin bldg on a brilliantly designed green space right on Euclid in mid-town...but unfortunately it's not up to me.

 

I agree that there are no resources, nor a great cause, to do a rehab of Kirtland right now.  Of course, I'd had to see it get any worse.  This was why I pointed out the Lakefront Plan and the development potential in the neighborhood directly south.  If these things ever make headway, I'd hope to see Kirtland get an appropriation for a serious upgrade.  As it is, I think it'd be a cool park to try to plan events in.  Anyone familiar with the East River Music Project in NYC? 

 

As for the ECTP, I haven't heard of any new parks along the route.  I think they're pretty much concentrating on knocking things down at present, so we'll have some nice open spaces when they're done, but instead of grass, we'll have brick rubble surfacing.  I hear the Clinic would like its whole campus to resemble a suburban office park, complete with abundant green space fronting Euclid Ave, so the community will have to settle for that!

The unfortunate proximity of the freeway really hurts that park's potential for attracting visitors.  Looking at the Lakefront Plan graphic, I didn't see any sound barriers or anything like that at the back of the park, just a bunch of trees.  Do you think that was an omission, or is it hard to tell?

The unfortunate proximity of the freeway really hurts that park's potential for attracting visitors.  Looking at the Lakefront Plan graphic, I didn't see any sound barriers or anything like that at the back of the park, just a bunch of trees.  Do you think that was an omission, or is it hard to tell?

 

I understand that.  But again, other cities have parks adjacent to freeways (as I pointed out with RS Park) how do we point out the positive and make this a more attractive to the community it is in, instead of zeroing in on the negatives?

I understand that.  But again, other cities have parks adjacent to freeways (as I pointed out with RS Park) how do we point out the positive and make this a more attractive to the community it is in, instead of zeroing in on the negatives?

 

Who's zeroing in on negatives now?  I was just stating my opinion on the freeway issue, since it was discussed above.  I think that the amphitheater is a really neat asset, and overall the park seems really nice, based on pictures that I've seen of it (since I haven't been there.)  Now how about answering my question? 

I understand that.  But again, other cities have parks adjacent to freeways (as I pointed out with RS Park) how do we point out the positive and make this a more attractive to the community it is in, instead of zeroing in on the negatives?

 

Who's zeroing in on negatives now?  I was just stating my opinion on the freeway issue, since it was discussed above.  I think that the amphitheater is a really neat asset, and overall the park seems really nice, based on pictures that I've seen of it (since I haven't been there.)  Now how about answering my question? 

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come across like that, I wasn't trying to roast/attack you or anything.

 

it's just that often we look at the glass half full.  You say the location hurts for visitors.  I'm asking how do we change that, market the park and surround area?

 

Am I correct in saying it's mostly light industrial?  which to me would be a reason its not a heavily used park.  So aside from the highway, what wrong? How do we correct it and how do we let people know that there is an interest in this high potential green space.

Yeah, sorry for being touchy... That post came across more negative than I had intended. 

 

My uncle used to be in a theater troupe occasionally did performances at the small park on Baltic Rd. at the corner of W. 110-ish, I think.  The amphitheater at Kirkland would be a perfect venue for something like that, but the noise issue would have to be addressed (hence my question about plans for a sound barrier.)  The park that I'm thinking of didn't have any sort of amenities beyond a few swing sets that were incorporated into the balcony scene of Romeo and Juliet, so that could be a real draw.

MGD, East River Music Project  looks totally awesome (I just read about it on line).  Would be a very cool series on the Clevo waterfront.  Not that it is the right venue, but I believe Voinivich Park (aka, the East 9th Street Pier Flag) was desgined with performance in mind- I think it is raked to one side for lawn seeting.  Do they have any sorts of non-festival planning out there?

 

 

Not my area of expertise, but here's what I know from my limited experience in the hood:

 

- There is a pretty active advocacy group for this park (the aptly named Friends of Kirtland Park). Despite their ongoing efforts to preserve the ampitheatre and provide greater upkeep and programming, I think there is a lack of political willpower to make improvements to a recreation area that has all of the challenges already mentioned (low usage, difficult accessibility, proximity to and orientation toward the highway).

- The park is proximate to a pretty substantial residential population, but as has already mentioned, this is cut off from the park by the industrial corridors along Hamilton, Lakeside and S. Marginal itself. This is probably not helped by the fact that the park is visibly tucked away - not only bordering the highway off of the marginal road but down the steep hills around E. 40th that prevent it from being in the neighborhood site line.

- The neighborhood is also served by a couple of other mini-parks, perhaps most notably Sterling Park between 31st and 32nd and Grdina Park off E. 61st. St. Clair Superior CDC has increasingly used these parks for arts and culture programs in the summer, not unlike what's done in Tremont's Lincoln Park and the OC's Fairview Park.

 

 

A link for the ERMP that was mentioned earlier: http://ermp.org/eastriver/

 

A friend put it together a few years back after passing by this out-of-the way corner of East River Park (Manhattan) that was cut off by the FDR Expressway.  So, similarly, it has great views, but is run down, noisy, and is difficult to get to.  What they did with the ERMP was host a series of rock shows every summer that brought in some great (mostly indie) bands and brought people to the park and the amphitheater that didn't know it was there.  I don't know how the city was involved, but I'm sure permitting was an issue because of the amplification and hundreds/thousands of visitors that would come in for these events. 

 

For what I know, we don't have anything like this here.  Every outdoor rock show is at an established venue and is sponsored by [insert big media conglomerate here] and [insert beer company here].  The theater troupe idea that Confiteordeo mentioned would be great too, though I think noise would be more of an issue here than with concerts.

There are a few small urban parks along E. 9th that have been bothering me. The one is across from the cathedral, I believe. It's a little patch of green. This, to me, could be better utilized/gardened. Does anyone know who controls those sorts of things? I am almost positive one of the garden clubs in the suburbs would be interested in adopting a small patch of garden downtown if they could put up a little sign. That'd be regionalism!

 

Also, what's up with the weird park/eating area outside of McDonald's Financial (I believe) that features fantastically zoo-like fencing on the sidewalk? It's oppressive and unfriendly.

^I can't speak for the patch north of the Hampton Inn, but I agree it would make a nice "pocket park" with just a few touches.

 

The KeyBank Center (aka 800 Superior - McDonald Financial was sold to UBS) plaza is considered private property and more or less an entry plaza from the attached parking garage. Oppressive and unfriendly? KeyBank? Surely you jest! :lol: