I'm creating a new thread for this subject considering the recent action of INDOT......

 

Although details are sketchy, the Indiana Department of Transportation has requested $2.8 billion in federal ARRA funding for the Chicago - Toledo - Cleveland (CTC) corridor. This amount is double what has been identified previously as needed for implementing 110 mph passenger rail service in this travel corridor, so I'm not sure exactly why INDOT is wanting $2.8 billion.

 

This is in addition to $75.5 million ($71.4 in federal stimulus funds sought and $4.1 million in NS funding) to build sidings and other capacity enhancements within the state of Indiana for the Indiana Gateway project between Porter, IN and Chicago (this route is used by 90 daily NS freight trains and 14 daily Amtrak trains to Grand Rapids, Port Huron, Detroit/Pontiac, and Toledo/Cleveland/East Coast.

 

INDOT also wants federal stimulus funds for environmental analyses and preliminary for Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland ($49 million) and Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati ($22 million) to implement 110 mph passenger rail. Both are federally designated HSR corridors. It is assumed that the CTC Corridor would be routed through Fort Wayne considering that recent planning showed this corridor would generate more ridership than the existing route through South Bend. Plus Fort Wayne residents, business and officials have expressed vocal support for bringing passenger rail back to that city.

 

So this is what the route could look like......

 

I'm glad to see that Fort Wayne's standing in the proposals continues to improve. I think that a lot of gratitude for that goes to Dr. Tom Hayhurst, a retired pulmonologist and former city councilman who gave Mark Souder a tough run for the district congressional seat last time, and who's having another go at him this time around.

 

Several people have been involved in organizing and promoting rallies to show local support, but I think Tom Hayhurst and Geoff Paddock, one of the people who was instrumental in making Headwaters Park happen and who has been politically active, have been the prime movers in bringing out the energy.

 

I couldn't figure out from your map exactly what the proposed routing might be, and the on-line NS system map is short on details. I'm thinking they might come out of Toledo on the old NYC Chicago-Cleveland line and then swing south on the former Wabash through Montpelier to Fort Wayne; that's the only ROW I can think of that's already in passable condition and would serve with the addition of some second track and signal upgrades.

 

From Fort Wayne to Chicago I haven't heard anything lately about what is proposed. Coming in to Fort Wayne on the former Wabash route would make an easy transfer over to the former PRR route (now owned by CSX, leased to RailAmerica and operated by CFE) near the former PRR Baker Street Station. On the other hand, the former PRR line has been single-tracked and de-signaled and is maintained only for slow branch line-type freight. It would take a lot of upgrading, plus the reactivation of a twenty-year-abandoned 19-mile section in Northwest Indiana to get fast passenger trains into Chicago.

 

On the other hand, interchanging between the former WAB and NKP would be fairly straightforward at the East Wayne Yards in New Haven, trains would come into downtown at the 1950's elevated platform, and the NKP ROW between Fort Wayne and Chicago is already in excellent condition. Like the former WAB, it would need some double-tracking and signal upgrades, but could be made suitable for much less money, it seems, than the former PRR.

Rob, at the risk of getting ahead of the Programmatic Environmental Impact Study, which will include a route alternatives analysis, the probable routing (with options listed in parenthesis) for fast passenger trains could be:

 

Chicago terminal area to Gary -- as you know, the existing NS/Amtrak mainline uses mostly former Pennsylvania RR and the parallel New York Central right of way east of Hammond. The high-speed only tracks could be on the vacated NYC from Englewood to Hammond and PRR from Hammond to Gary. CSX restored the PRR tracks from Hammond to Gary in the late 1990s, but used them for only a short period of time. (An alternate routing away from the navigable shipping channels could involve building next to a mix of CSX/IHB, IHB, IC and NS rights of way).

 

Gary to Fort Wayne -- Former PRR right of way through Plymouth.

 

Fort Wayne to Toledo -- NS/Maumee & Western's former Wabash right of way to Liberty Center, then Indiana & Ohio (ex-DT&I) to Delta, then the NS/Amtrak mainline from Delta to Toledo Central Union Terminal. (An alternate route is to stay on the former Wabash RR from Liberty Center to Toledo but this line is abandoned so restoring tracks to this alignment is unlikely when there is a alternate routing with less of an environmental impact).

 

Toledo to Cleveland -- probably use the existing NS/Amtrak mainline to Cleveland, but the crossing of the Sandusky Bay will be expensive. (Alternate route is the 1982 proposed HSR routing on the former NYC from Millbury to the crossing of the Ohio Turnpike, then build next to the Turnpike to the crossing of the former Lake Erie & Western/Nickel Plate RR near Fremont, then take the LE&W into Sandusky to rejoin the NS/Amtrak mainline).

Good topic for a thread KJP.  Perhaps this may also give some juice toward getting a Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago going.

Thanks for that info, KJP. I had heard a rumor that the MAW was a likely routing but hadn't thought it highly credible because of the deplorable condition of the track that I was familiar with, Woodburn - Antwerp. That would be a remarkable comeback.

 

IMO the proposed routings both east and west of Fort Wayne have little going for them except that the ROW is still intact, but I guess laying new track on an already-graded ROW isn't that much bigger a deal than rehabbing/upgrading some existing midwestern freight lines to provide a decent, safe ride at 90-110mph.

 

Good topic for a thread KJP.  Perhaps this may also give some juice toward getting a Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago going.

Remember this from 2003?

 

High-Speed Rail between Chicago, Columbus, and Pittsburgh, via Ft. Wayne and Lima to be Studied

 

http://www.creativefortwayne.net/archives/000072.php

Good topic for a thread KJP. Perhaps this may also give some juice toward getting a Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago going.

 

Absolutely. It gets you half way there.

 

Thanks for that info, KJP. I had heard a rumor that the MAW was a likely routing but hadn't thought it highly credible because of the deplorable condition of the track that I was familiar with, Woodburn - Antwerp. That would be a remarkable comeback.

 

Existing track conditions are largely irrelevant, unless the track is gone or has been inactive for many years. Then the environmental review becomes more stringent. No matter what, all tracks will need replacement or major improvements -- even the NS tracks via South Bend aren't very good right now. Amtrak does 79 mph here, but I've heard from railroad people who have ridden Amtrak on this line in the last couple of years who swore their train was coming off the tracks. NS has apparently forgotten that it needs to maintain this line.

 

Remember this from 2003?

 

High-Speed Rail between Chicago, Columbus, and Pittsburgh, via Ft. Wayne and Lima to be Studied

 

http://www.creativefortwayne.net/archives/000072.php

 

Yo no remembro.

... even the NS tracks via South Bend aren't very good right now. Amtrak does 79 mph here, but I've heard from railroad people who have ridden Amtrak on this line in the last couple of years who swore their train was coming off the tracks. NS has apparently forgotten that it needs to maintain this line.

 

Yup. I noted in another post that I rode from Waterloo to Chicago and return last December, going on the Lateshore and returning on the Capitol. The Lateshore ride in an Amfleet coach was shaky and rattly. The Capitol's superliners are heavier, and ride better.

 

The proposed routing makes the restored former PRR station on Baker Street in Fort Wayne the likely choice for a depot except that the platforms have been bulldozed into the stairwells and recently I saw excavating equipment and piles of dirt up on the elevation behind the station, so I wonder if they collapsed and filled the tunnel, as well. The building was sold to an architectural firm and is occupied by offices now, and the concourse is a reception and meeting hall. It probably would be just as expeditious to build a new, modern depot, possibly across the tracks and a block east on the site of the former Wabash depot; there's plenty of space in the adjacent old WAB freight yard for a parking lot.

Defiance County (OH) Commissioners put in a stimulus request to rehab virtually all of the MAW.  Don't know what the status is, but it's encouraging to see local officials recognize the need.

I saw that. For some reason I didn't post the article before. Here it is......

 

 

9/25/2009 7:03:00 PM  Email this article • Print this article 

 

Northwest Ohio port authority wants rail line to Indiana back on track

 

LINDA LIPP, Greater Fort Wayne Business Weekly

 

[email protected]

 

The Regional Port Authority of Northwest Ohio is seeking $95.8 million in federal stimulus funds to acquire and rehabilitate a 51-mile stretch of railroad that runs between Liberty Center, just east of Napoleon, Ohio, across the Indiana state line to Woodburn.

 

The port authority, headquartered in Defiance, was created by Defiance, Fulton, Henry and Paulding counties in 2008 "to be a tool for economic development, not the tool for economic development," said Jerry Arkebauer, its executive director. But because the railroad in question, the Maumee & Western, runs through three of the four counties in the port authority's jurisdiction - Defiance, Henry and Paulding - the port authority was the logical body to undertake the project.

 

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=66&ArticleID=50137

 

A press release from the Indiana Department of Transportation.....

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

October 13, 2009 CONTACT:

Will Wingfield

(317) 233-4675

[email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

$2.8 billion sought for high speed rail from Chicago to Cleveland

INDOT requests stimulus funds on behalf of Midwest Regional Rail Initiative

 

 

INDIANAPOLIS – On behalf of the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, Indiana requested $2.8 billion in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) funds to plan, build and launch high-speed rail service from Chicago to Cleveland. A copy of the application is available on the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) Web site at http://indot.IN.gov/3064.htm

 

“With the support of our counterparts in Chicago and Ohio, INDOT submitted one application that Indiana believes stands the greatest chance of being approved by the Federal Rail Administration,” said INDOT Commissioner Michael W. Reed.

 

If approved, initial environmental and feasibility studies would fully consider two routes through Indiana, either a northern route with proposed stops in South Bend, Elkhart and Waterloo or a southern route with proposed stops in Plymouth, Warsaw and Fort Wayne. Both routes would also include a proposed stop near Gary.

 

ARRA, commonly known as the federal stimulus package, provides an $8 billion initial investment in high-speed intercity passenger rail, followed by an additional $1 billion a year for five years. In August INDOT requested $71.4 million in final design and construction funds to improve the congested Norfolk Southern rail line that connects Chicago to Detroit through northwest Indiana. The Federal Rail Administration anticipates announcing grant awards this winter.

 

Indiana is one of nine member states in the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, an ongoing effort to develop and expand access to an improved passenger rail system in the Midwest. This proposed system would provide high-speed rail service of 80 to 110 miles per hour with shorter travel times, increased frequency of service, accessibility and reliability. Other participating states are Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio, Nebraska and Wisconsin.

I just saw that application on a link in a local blog. It implies a preference for the southern route through Fort Wayne and into Chicago via the former Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago (PRR) route.

 

I like that the application stipulates feeder bus service connecting key points on the alternative northern route, like Waterloo, South Bend, and Elkhart.

 

... and if someone cut down the forest of invasive Ailanthus Altissima (Stink Tree/Tree of Heaven) along the tracks by Swinney Park, I'd be able to watch the trains pass from my front yard! :-)

Save the Date

 

Rally for Rail!

Rolling Forward

 

The Northeast Indiana Passenger Rail Association

will host a

Rally for Rail!

 

Saturday, January 16th, 2010 at 2pm

 

Baker Street Station

221 W. Baker Street

Fort Wayne, IN 46802

 

www.nipra2rail.org

Here's Geoff Paddock's letter to the editor, printed in this morning's Journal Gazette, regarding the rally:

 

Attend rally to get passenger trains

 

The Northeast Indiana Passenger Rail Association is sponsoring another Rally for Rail at 2 p.m. Jan. 16 at the Baker Street Station. Many local, state and federal officials have been invited to attend, and we expect a large crowd to again step forward and voice support for the return of passenger rail service to Fort Wayne.

 

(more at http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091227/EDIT09/312279972)

 

Geoff is a board member of Northeast Indiana Passenger Rail Association

 

 

I will be in Warsaw. Not Warsaw, Indiana (been there, done that -- saw the combined Broadway/Capitol Limited stop there one summer evening in 1986).

 

Instead I'm going to be in Warsaw, Poland. Sorry!

Warsaw, Indiana made a major effort and investment to get an Amtrak stop there, and didn't get to enjoy the benefits for very many years before the trains were re-routed via South Bend/Elkhart.

 

Warsaw is a major center for research and production of orthopedic and prosthetic devices, possibly the largest concentration of such activity in the world. The leaders in that industry are putting together a coalition and lobbying hard to get their city included as a stop on the hoped-for passenger rail service; they make a good case for the economic development benefits that passenger trains can bring.

 

Another sidelight to Warsaw; the adjacent community of Winona Lake was home to evangelist Billy Sunday in the era of tents with sawdust floors. The tradition has carried over in Grace College and there's been considerable restoration and preservation activity in Winona Lake in recent years, with the creation of a colony of galleries and arts-related events and celebrations. It's an attractive, enjoyable place for a summer-afternoon visit, and I can see how passenger train service might be a valuable adjunct to growing that area as a regional destination.

 

But Warsaw, Poland, sounds like a good idea, too. Have an enjoyable trip. :-)

Newcomer to the forum here. I hang out on the skyscraper city forums mostly in the Midwest Region but thought I should check this out.

 

Ive been digging into this HSR route lately. Did a lot of reading on the INDOT proposal the other day. Sadly I read that the Chicago/Indianapolis/Cincinnati route was shelved for a while until a better plan could be put together.

Where did you read that?  The Cincy-Indy-Chiago route is still part of the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative and the President's proposed HSR network.

 

Sorry....I almost forgot....welcome to the forum!  Here's a couple fo websites that you might be interested in:

 

http://www.midwesthsr.org/

 

http://www.allaboardohio.org/cms/index.php

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/Pages/Default.aspx

I read it here:

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=222&ArticleID=51040

 

Ive also been to the indot page, and they have the chicago to cleveland text on there, and the NW gateway proposal as well, but I was unable to dig up any text about the Chicago/Indy/Cincy route. Believe me, Id love to have it as I live in Indy, but if what was written in the link is true, it appears that a better examination will be needed, before funds can be requested.

I would say the Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland route is further along in development than the Chicago-Indy-Cincy route.  The Chicago-Cincy route has not been planned, but I suspect that InDOT saw a greater chance of funding with the Chicago-Cleveland route.  The stimulus funds had a lot of stipulations and tight deadlines to be met that determined what projects were selected and what projects were not selected.

Advocacy for the Chicago - Fort Wayne - Toledo - Cleveland route has been strong and vocal in Fort Wayne and the area from media, elected officials, business leaders, and the general public. Last year's Rally for Rail at the Baker Street Station (former Pennsylvania Railroad station), drew a jam-packed, standing-room-only crowd of more than 800 people.

 

I plan to attend the rally this afternoon at 2:00pm, and I hope the turnout is equally enthusiastic. I intend to arrive by 1:00pm in hopes of getting inside the building this time. If I can get photos, I'll post them.

About 800 people showed up for RALLY FOR RAIL! - ROLLING FORWARD, similar to last year. Main speaker was Leigh Morris, INDOT Deputy Commissioner. He announcement that INDOT has taken an official position recommending the route via Fort Wayne and Toledo as the preferred route was met with applause.

 

Photos are here

why can't we get 800 people to show up at a rally for rail in Ohio?

 

 

why can't we get 800 people to show up at a rally for rail in Ohio?

 

Maybe it has something to do with Fort Wayne being a modest-sized city where within living memory most families had a relative or connection with someone who worked for the railroads. We had Amtrak service later than some of the rail-isolated cities in Ohio, too.

 

Add to that, Dr. Tom Hayhurst knows a lot of people and is an energetic personality, Geoff Paddock is the consummate organizer, promoter, and public presenter, and Justin Stalter and the DID (Downtown Improvement District) staff have contributed a lot of technical support and feet-on-the-ground support at the events, setting up the facility, registering visitors and handing out materials, and tearing down afterward.

 

The PRR depot always was the grandest (well, the only grand one) of the Fort Wayne depots, and Vic Martin of Martin Riley Architects, owners of the building, who restored it to elegance after years of abandonment and vandalism, is a strong advocate for return of passenger service. The station holds a lot of powerful memories for long-time Fort Wayne residents.

Ohioans have become jaded. Give them a train (1989 Broadway/Capitol reroute inaugurals, 1993 high-speed trains tour, 1995 baseball playoffs 3C trains, 1997 Mad River/3C train, etc) and thousands of people will turn out to see trains.

 

Get some people to talk about trains and maybe 100 will show up. The rest will yawn: "if you're not announcing a train today, let me know when you will and I'll show up there."

Posted on Mon. Jan. 18, 2010 - 10:19 am EDT

High-speed rail supporters await news

Rally attendees told grant application has been submitted.

By Aaron Organ

of The News-Sentinel

 

It's tough to find anyone who doesn't support running high-speed passenger rail in Fort Wayne.

 

Mayor Tom Henry is all aboard, pun intended. So are city councilmen Tom Didier (R-3rd) and Tom Smith (R-1st), and county commissioner Bill Brown. State Reps. Win Moses (D-Fort Wayne) and Phyllis Pond (R-New Haven), State Sens. Tom Wyss (R-Fort Wayne) and Dennis Kruse (R-Auburn), U.S. Sens. Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) and Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), and U.S. Rep. Mark Souder (R-3rd) are all ready to lay tracks through town.

 

All joined, either in person or via representative, the roughly 800 supporters who came to the packed-to-capacity Baker Street Station at Saturday afternoon's “Rally for Rail.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20101180316

Posted on Mon. Jan. 18, 2010 - 10:19 am EDT

High-speed rail supporters await news

Rally attendees told grant application has been submitted.

By Aaron Organ

of The News-Sentinel

 

It's tough to find anyone who doesn't support running high-speed passenger rail in Fort Wayne.

 

Mayor Tom Henry is all aboard, pun intended. So are city councilmen Tom Didier (R-3rd) and Tom Smith (R-1st), and county commissioner Bill Brown. State Reps. Win Moses (D-Fort Wayne) and Phyllis Pond (R-New Haven), State Sens. Tom Wyss (R-Fort Wayne) and Dennis Kruse (R-Auburn), U.S. Sens. Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) and Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), and U.S. Rep. Mark Souder (R-3rd) are all ready to lay tracks through town.

 

All joined, either in person or via representative, the roughly 800 supporters who came to the packed-to-capacity Baker Street Station at Saturday afternoon's Rally for Rail.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20101180316

HSR? How fast?

Up to 110 mph. For more detail, see INDOT's $2.8 billion "Track 2" application at:

 

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/IN_CHI_CLEV_HSRService_hsiprapptrack2_3.doc

 

INDOT submitted an earlier "Track 1" application for $71.4 million for interim capacity enhancements for the Porter, IN to Chicago portion of Norfolk Southern Corp's mainline used by 16 daily Amtrak trains and 90 daily freight trains. To see that application, go to:

 

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/IndianaGatewayHSIPRApplicationTrack1a.doc

 

More info is available at:

 

http://www.in.gov/indot/3064.htm

The White House has posted a summary list of corridor projects that will be awarded part of the $8 billion ARRA funding. Every Midwestern state that applied is scheduled to receive some funding and the Midwest as whole will receive over $2.6 billion.....

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/100128_1400-HSRAwards-Summary_FRA%20Revisions.pdf

 

Note that the Cleveland - Toledo - Chicago corridor also got $204 million ($71 million in Indiana, $133 million in Illinois) -- it got it because it shares the last 40 miles into Chicago with the Detroit-Chicago corridor! This will enable faster, more reliable service on the existing four daily Amtrak trains across northern Ohio, and allow for future expanded service to Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria and Cleveland!

Looks like the Fort Wayne route got nothin' - not even a "Sorry, maybe next time."

^Drat!

Looks like the Fort Wayne route got nothin' - not even a "Sorry, maybe next time."

 

The line through Ft. Wayne is important.  They need to re-submit their application for what will hopefully $4 billion in the transportation bill.  The Ft. Wayne line is preferred for Toledo-Chicago and it ties in the proposed PGH-Columbus-Lima-Ft. Wayne-Chicago route in the Ohio Hub plan. 

 

However, the improvements in Porter, Indiana are probably a higher priority in the short term. 

 

Keep plugging away in Fort Wayne.  Ohio has a vested interest in that line. 

 

++++

A perspective from www.thetransportpolitic.com:

 

"a line through Fort Wayne in northern Indiana, proposed for a major upgrade on the way to Cleveland, will not be funded in this first phase. That’s an acceptable decision, since Ohio has pledged money to its service while Indiana has not."

 

I'm not sure what money from Ohio they are talking about. 

I've been told by a good source at Amtrak that sizeable amounts of funding are still available in the next two "tracks" of stimulus funding and that states who didn't get their full share... or any share in this week's awards, will still have a shot at gettinmg funding.

I realize that expectations of getting money to actually lay track through Fort Wayne at this stage were unrealistic, and I just hope that the excitement that NIPRA successfully generated here doesn't give way to such severe disillusionment that people just walk away.

 

At best it will be several years before a scheduled passenger train pulls up in downtown Fort Wayne. Meanwhile, I'd consider it a major benefit if the Lateshore and Capitol achieve respectable schedule reliability and perhaps additional frequencies are added on the line through Waterloo and South Bend. That would make Amtrak a viable option for me, and I'd be inclined to make the 20-mile drive to Waterloo sometimes instead of traveling 100-plus miles to Michigan City to ride the South Shore.

 

I was pleasantly suprised to see how much lost time Indiana recovered in the application process, and much of that surge in interest was a result of the efforts of the very energetic and well-organized local activism led by Geoff Paddock and Dr. Tom Hayhurst and others in NIPRA. There's no denying, though, that Indiana came very late to the table compared with other states, and the only reason any money is being spent in Indiana is because of the benefit to passenger routes that primarily serve other states.

 

Indiana has yet to commit any of its own money to the advancement of passenger rail. I think that's an important factor in any future allocation of federal funding. Where would that money come from ? ...

 

It's seldom too late to stop misdirecting precious resources toward an ill-conceived boondoggle, although apparently Indiana has forgotten the lesson learned when it had a close encounter with fiscal disaster because it undertook construction of a costly canal after some eastern canal operations had already been forced into bankruptcy with the advent of railroads. I believe Indiana's commitment to the I-69 extension southward from Indianapolis, disregarding the clear future of rising fuel prices and the diversion of freight from trucks to rails, will one day be seen in the same context. It should be stopped now, and the money should be redirected toward a transport mode with a future.

I've been told by a good source at Amtrak that sizeable amounts of funding are still available in the next two "tracks" of stimulus funding and that states who didn't get their full share... or any share in this week's awards, will still have a shot at gettinmg funding.

 

That's good to hear. I was very disappointed to see that all of Michigan's requests (exceeding $800 million) weren't approved, save for two new stations.

 

As for the Chicago-Porter IN section, this is going to be a much more fluid rail corridor in the coming years thanks to funding approved for these specific improvements:

 

Specifically, the $200 million will be for....

 

> Rebuilding bridges, relocating crossing safety devices, adding more crossovers between main tracks, and extended passing sidings to create long sections of signalled third main track in Indiana.

> Building a station at the Gary Regional Airport to replace the modular Hammond/Whiting station.

> The biggest project that represents at least half of the cost -- separating the at-grade Englewood crossing of the Norfolk Southern/Amtrak mainline (100 daily freight and passenger trains) and Metra's Rock Island District line (68 weekday commuter trains). The Metra Rock Island line will be raised and put on a "flyover" above the NS/Amtrak (former PRR) line, thereby reducing traffic congestion for both lines, reducing running times and improving reliability.

 

All of these, I think, will increase capacity for future expansion including more Chicago - Toledo - Cleveland trains and, someday, trains to Columbus and a faster route for trains to Indianapolis and Cincinnati.

 

For more detail on the massive Englewood flyover project, see Illinois DOT's ARRA application......

 

http://recovery.illinois.gov/documents/Applications/CREATE-P1-rev2-082109.pdf

 

And Indiana DOT's Porter-state line application.......

 

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/IndianaGatewayHSIPRApplicationTrack1a.pdf

I think the next thing Ohio should do is to join with Indiana and Illinois for a joint application of ARRA second round funds for Cleveland-Toledo-Ft. Wayne-Chicago, as well as Columbus-Lima-Ft. Wayne-Chicago, killing two birds with one stone.

 

this could also be a part of a freight project to reroute thru NS traffic off the ex-New York Central (via Cleveland and Toledo) and have it operate over the old Pennsylvania line thru Canton, Lima and Ft. Wayne. this frees up tracks for passenger trains between Cleveland, Toledo and Chicago.

 

Ohio has to pay more attention to NW Ohio, after all the hubbub over 3-C. Toledo is very sensitive to being left out and this move would help a lot. A simple way to start would be to get a daytime Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago train running.

 

Ft. Wayne must not become discouraged, but should take the lead in prodding the state to take an active role in this.

Gotta do a couple of years' worth of environmental impact studies for those corridors before federal start-up money can be expected. That's why INDOT's Chicago - Ft Wayne - Toledo - Cleveland request for $2.8 billion got turned down. No EIS or preliminary engineering was done. The request did include $40+ million for EIS/PE of CHI-FTW-TOL-CLE, and I'm surprised that wasn't at least funded, either in whole or in part. That's worth a second ask.

 

The Englewood flyover had all of its environment assessments and final design completed when Illinois DOT submitted its stimulus request. They even included $7 million of their own money in the request to sweeten the deal. Given that and the strategic importance of the Porter-Chicago segment, it's no surprise their request was approved by the FRA.

[ ... ]

 

this could also be a part of a freight project to reroute thru NS traffic off the ex-New York Central (via Cleveland and Toledo) and have it operate over the old Pennsylvania line thru Canton, Lima and Ft. Wayne. this frees up tracks for passenger trains between Cleveland, Toledo and Chicago.

 

[ ... ]

 

A substantial portion of the old PRR route through and Fort Wayne went to CSX in the breakup of Conrail, and CSX leased it to RailAmerica, whose wholly-owned subsidiary Chicago Fort Wayne & Eastern (CFE) operates it. Much (maybe all) of the line across Indiana, and into Ohio, has been single-tracked and de-signaled. It would take nearly as much time and investment to make it capable of handling the freight that currently runs Cleveland-Toledo-Elkhart-Chicago as it would take to make it capable of handling 79mph passenger trains. Further, there's the trackage rights issue involved in moving NS freight over CSX/RailAmerica/CFE.

 

1971:

 

2007:

 

That's an excellent then-and-now comparison, Rob. Same location, same angle, still some recognizable landmarks for reference.... Awesome.

 

A substantial portion of the old PRR route through and Fort Wayne went to CSX in the breakup of Conrail, and CSX leased it to RailAmerica, whose wholly-owned subsidiary Chicago Fort Wayne & Eastern (CFE) operates it. Much (maybe all) of the line across Indiana, and into Ohio, has been single-tracked and de-signaled. It would take nearly as much time and investment to make it capable of handling the freight that currently runs Cleveland-Toledo-Elkhart-Chicago as it would take to make it capable of handling 79mph passenger trains. Further, there's the trackage rights issue involved in moving NS freight over CSX/RailAmerica/CFE.

 

 

I drive the new US 24 from Ft Wayne to Defiance quite regularly, and I think the new highway parallels the line you are talking about, correct? Between FtW and Defiance, it is single tracked, and there are rail cars parked along just about the entire length. It looks like it would take a total rehab to get this line in shape for any semblance of high speed rail.

 

A substantial portion of the old PRR route through and Fort Wayne went to CSX in the breakup of Conrail, and CSX leased it to RailAmerica, whose wholly-owned subsidiary Chicago Fort Wayne & Eastern (CFE) operates it. Much (maybe all) of the line across Indiana, and into Ohio, has been single-tracked and de-signaled. It would take nearly as much time and investment to make it capable of handling the freight that currently runs Cleveland-Toledo-Elkhart-Chicago as it would take to make it capable of handling 79mph passenger trains. Further, there's the trackage rights issue involved in moving NS freight over CSX/RailAmerica/CFE.

 

 

I drive the new US 24 from Ft Wayne to Defiance quite regularly, and I think the new highway parallels the line you are talking about, correct? Between FtW and Defiance, it is single tracked, and there are rail cars parked along just about the entire length. It looks like it would take a total rehab to get this line in shape for any semblance of high speed rail.

 

I think the line you're referring to, parallel to US 24, is the old Wabash Toledo line, now mostly Maumee & Western (MAW). Most of it doesn't amount to much. That's the right-of-way that's proposed as part of the Toledo - Fort Wayne segment of the high-speed passenger rail connection. Obviously, there's nothing useful remaining of the line except the right-of-way; all of the passenger line would have to be built from scratch except for surveying the route.

 

The former PRR route I wrote about runs approximately parallel to US 30 both directions from Fort Wayne. Eastward it's parallel to US 30 at least to Lima; beyond that, I'm not sure of the routing. Back in the seventies when I used to drive to Lima fairly often, sometimes I'd see the Broadway Limited on that line.

 

Westward from Fort Wayne the former PRR route that I showed in my photos passes through Columbia City, Warsaw, Plymouth, Valparaiso, and Gary. While the former PRR line has been seriously downgraded, it's in nowhere near as derelict condition as the parts of the Maumee & Western that I've seen.

Many of you might be surprised (I know I was!) at how many publicly funded projects were completed since 2005, are under construction right now, or are funded to begin within the next two years in the Cleveland - Toledo - Chicago (CTC) Corridor. How many projects? How about $370 million worth? All of these improvements will be beneficial to the existing four daily Amtrak passenger trains which travel the length of this corridor. These don't include projects wholly funded by the freight railroads....

 

http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/Ohio-Funded%20passenger%20rail%20projects.pdf

 

You will also notice I included in the above document a similar roster of projects totaling $93 million in the 3C Corridor. This doesn't include the pending $400 million federal grant awaiting State Controlling Board approval for the start-up of 3C passenger service.

 

So the next time someone tells you nothing is going in the CTC Corridor, tell them more is going on there right now than in the 3C Corridor!!

Officials gather for groundbreaking for Chicago's Englewood Flyover

Friday, March 05, 2010 

 

On March 5, Congressman Dan Lipinski (D-Ill) joined House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Chairman James Oberstar (D-Minn.), Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn and IDOT Secretary Gary Hannig for the groundbreaking on the Englewood Flyover, which is now expected to begin this year thanks to $133 million in new federal funding.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/officials-gather-for-groundbreaking-for-chicagos-englewood-flyover.html

I am new to UrbanOhio but have been lurking on a few of the topics here and am impressed with the intelligent level of exchange.

 

Someone had earlier mentioned that it is hard to imagine the current MAW Right-of-Way hosting speedy passenger trains but I think that it is the logical solution for linking Toledo to Chicago with quality passenger rail service.  This is due to several factors:

 

1. Lack of Freigt Train Interference.  The NS "Water Level Route" is a very busy line for freight trains, as we all know.  The MAW could continue using their line to serve their smattering of freight customers at night with minimal risk of interference to pax ops.

 

2. Larger population base.  One thing that seems to be over-looked is the fact that not only is FTW Indiana's 2nd largest metropolis but via the MAW/former PRR route you would bring a host of mid-sized county seat communities on line as well that might support flag stop or limited scheduled stops.  Communities such as Napoleon, Defiance, Columbia City, Warsaw, Plymouth, Valpo would all be worth looking at.  Perhaps not every train would stop at every station but an "A" train and "B" train type of system could be set up.  For example, obviously EVERY train would stop at FTW but every other train might stop at Napoleon, Defiance, Warsaw, etc.

 

3.  Don't Worry about S. Bend and Elkhart.  S. Bend has the South Shore providing service to Millenium station and is also right next door to Niles, Michigan which ALREADY sees eight trains/day.

 

4. Reroute Capitol and Lake Shore Ltd via PRR/MAW routing.  This would provide more dependable service for these trains on the first leg of their Eastboud journeys.  Only stop these trains in Fort Wayne and Toledo.  Let 'em really stretch their legs!

 

5. Routing trains via Fort Wayne allows for shared route for future Columbus-Lima-FTW-CHI service. 

 

The possibilities are exciting.  It is difficult for many midwesterners to envision a new paradigm in mobility but they have no idea of how much development could be spawned by such rail transportation.  I liken to the Washington Metro effect.  When the Metro was being built for the DC area there were some area where the NIMBY effect was great (Georgetown).  Those areas were left off the Metro Rail Map.  Other areas (Crystal City, VA) that were outposts of the DC urban area have since become very well-developed and valuable pieces of land due in no small part to the Metro Rail service they enjoy (Metro's current woes not withstanding).

 

I realize that comparing the Metro in DC to the Ohio Hub plan is akin to comparing apples and oranges but parallels CAN be drawn.  The effects won't be evident in such concentrated ways as one would find in DC but the town on line will have distinct advantages over those off-line.  Keep up the good fight, Fort Wayne!  Northwest Ohio as well as Central Ohio could benefit greatly from your inclusion in any future passenger rail link to the Windy City.

Awesome first post, jeffinmichigan. Welcome aboard! I also like the routing via Fort Wayne for the reasons you noted. I'm hopeful INDOT will come up with a more reasonable federal funding request to advance that corridor's planning to a funding-ready status.

Welcome, jeffinmichigan!

 

I live in Fort Wayne, and I'm one of the people who would very much like to have passenger trains again.

 

I think the proposed MAW routing into Fort Wayne from the east makes the most sense, too. My comments about it upthread were not to disparage the route, but only to point out that the ROW exists mainly as real-estate at this point, and will need massive work to bring it up to passenger-train standards. Some expensive, time-consuming environmental assessment work will precede the bulldozers.

 

As you mentioned, the former PRR between Lima and Fort Wayne is projected to be part of a future Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago link.

 

I think the South Bend-Elkhart area needs to keep some Amtrak service over the Water-Level Route, too. Admittedly, they're connected with Chicago via the South Shore, but they're in a pretty big metro, and they need to retain rail connections eastward, too.

 

There's been some early speculation about extending the South Shore eastward to Elkhart, but in my opinion they'd have to improve speeds and comfort quite a lot for that to be viable. Not saying it can't happen; I just don't think it stands a chance in the present economy, especially on Mitch Daniels' watch.

 

I think that even though the effort to get South Shore commuter service to Valpo didn't get funded by the state the last time around, it, too, eventually will happen.

Looks like Fort Wayne-area residents will be getting on/off Amtrak trains at Bryan, OH for a while. A 38-car NS coal train picked a switch-point at Waterloo, IN, derailed and wiped out the Amtrak station station, platform, as well as all the autos parked there. Because of the proximity of Fort Wayne, this is the 2nd busiest Amtrak station in Indiana. News at 11....

 

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/train-derail-spills-tons-of-coal

According to an AP article in the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette this morning (Sunday, 03/28/2010) Amtrak cancelled Saturday's Capitol Limited and rerouted the Lateshore Limited with significant delays. Alternative transportation was provided for passengers between Chicago and Toledo.

 

Read the article

Amtrak's website said they detoured the Capitol and Lakeshore between Chicago and Toledo through Michigan.

Photos from this afternoon (Monday, March 29) of the mess at Waterloo, Indiana, are here

Good news for a long-neglected rail line in NW Ohio......

 

1/4/2013 10:00:00 AM   

 

Pioneer Railcorp acquires Maumee & Western line in Indiana, Ohio

 

Pioneer Railcorp announced yesterday that its wholly owned Michigan Southern Railroad Co. subsidiary has purchased a rail line formerly operated by the Maumee & Western Railroad Corp. in Indiana and Ohio. The 51-mile line between Woodburn, Ind., and Liberty Center, Ohio, will be operated as the Michigan Southern Railroad Co., doing business as the Napoleon, Defiance & Western Railway.

 

The Napoleon, Defiance & Western Railway will maintain six full-time employees in the Defiance, Ohio, area.

 

"We have purchased this line with the knowledge that it is in dire need of rehabilitation due to years of deferred maintenance. Our objective is to rehabilitate the line in order to provide consistent freight-rail service to all current and potential shippers utilizing the line," said Pioneer Railcorp President and Chief Executive Officer Mike Carr in a prepared statement.

 

Read more at:  http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=34691