...and say "F you" to places like Phoenix and Las Vegas that are building irresponsibly.  From the AP, 11/19/05:

 

 

Negotiators reach deal on Great Lakes water protections

Associated Press

 

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- Negotiators for eight states and two Canadian provinces have reached an agreement aimed at preventing outsiders from raiding Great Lakes water.

 

The pact, reached after four years of talks, also seeks to encourage conservation of water by the states and provinces around the Great Lakes.

 

The agreement was motivated largely by fears that states in the booming -- and arid -- Southwest will try tapping into the lakes, which hold 90 percent of the nation's fresh surface water, as their populations and political clout grow.

 

...

 

Originally published November 19, 2005

 

http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051119/NEWS01/511190303/1002

 

 

    Keep in mind that it takes energy to lift water. I've read that about 8% of our nations industrial energy production is used to lift water. So, even if Las Vegas or Phoenix could get legal access to the Great Lakes, it will take a lot of energy to move the water. I suspect that this would be the limiting factor; hence, we probably don't need to worry too much about it.

 

  I have a drawing of the North American Water and Power Alliance plan (NAWAPA) from the 1960's that shows a very ambitious system covering most of North America. They proposed diverting water from the Yukon in Alaska and conveying it to the U.S. Southwest, and also constructing a transcontinental seaway for ships between Seattle and Lake Superior! However, the plan did not propose any diversion of Great Lakes waters to the Southwest; in fact, it proposed diverting more water to the Great Lakes from the west! It's easier to divert water downhill than to pump it uphill.

 

It's easier to divert water downhill than to pump it uphill.

 

Gravity is funny in that kind of way.

From the 11/28/05 Dayton Daily News:

 

 

Taft leads Great Lakes effort

By the Columbus Bureau

Dayton Daily News

 

The states and provinces bordering the Great Lakes, including Ohio, want to regulate water use because they fear that it could be exported around the world, causing the lakes to retreat and hurt the natural — and business — environment.

 

"Lake Erie alone brings in $3.4 billion" from fishing and tourism, said Kristy Meyer, spokeswoman for the Ohio Environmental Council.

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/1128capcor.html

 

this is a terribly serious issue. western states for years have eyed great lakes water. the surrounding states and provinces must continue to meet regularly and be diligent in securely protecting the great lakes water resource. they must convince the feds to totally ban water diversion.

This is so true!  We need to protect the lakes.  I know that we are all a part of the same country, but it is rediciulous to pump water out to Pheonix and LA.  They shouldn't be building in areas that can't support a large population.  Already, LA is taking water from areas in Northern California, and I think there are even talks of diverting or siphoning off water from the Columbia River.  Again, these arid areas need to put a limit on how much they grow.

 

 

from cnn. good job --- but dont they get together and say this every few years???

 

 

 

Partnership looking to save Great Lakes

 

Tuesday, December 13, 2005; Posted: 7:01 p.m. EST (00:01 GMT)

 

 

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Representatives of eight states and two Canadian provinces formally approved an agreement Tuesday that would prevent outsiders such as the booming cities of the Southwest from raiding Great Lakes water.

 

The pact, reached last month after four years of talks, also seeks to encourage conservation of water by the states and Canadian provinces around the Great Lakes.

 

With limited exceptions, it allows lake water to be transferred only to communities within the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River Basin.

 

...

 

www.cnn.com

From the AP, 12/24/05:

 

 

Attorney warns of dangers in Great Lakes water plan

John Flesher

AP Environmental Writer

 

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. — When governors of the Great Lakes states endorsed a strategy for preventing water raids by covetous outsiders, some of the loudest cheers came from leaders of environmentalist groups.

 

But an attorney known for leading the fight against a water bottling operation in Michigan’s northwestern Lower Peninsula doesn’t share their enthusiasm.

 

Jim Olson, a veteran environmental lawyer based in Traverse City, says the plan known as Annex 2001 could open the door to the very water grabs it’s meant to forestall.

 

...

 

http://www.chroniclet.com/2005_Archive/12-24-05/Daily%20Pages/Local/Html/local3.html

 

 

    I have to ask, is that amount of bottled water taken from the Great Lakes significant?

 

    Come to think of it, if the Great Lakes states could sell water at $1.00 for 250 mL, why not sell all we can? That's more profitable than Saudi Arabia selling oil, and unlike oil, the water is renewable!

 

    Of course I realize that most of the cost is in the bottle, not the water.

 

    Gee, the world is a strange place!  :laugh:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061009/NEWS06/610090326/-1/NEWS

-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article published October 9, 2006

 

Progress on water legislation stagnates

Revisions sought by Ohio industries

 

By TOM HENRY

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

 

Ten months after Great Lakes governors came together in Milwaukee to assert regional control over the lakes, none of the states has followed through with legislation for Congress to ratify.

 

The sluggish pace itself hasn't fazed those familiar with the issue, given the complexity and politics of water laws.

 

But some people have grown weary of Ohio industry's hard-line position on two points dealing with water withdrawals from the lakes - one which affects decision-making power and the other that could broaden the definition of eligibility.

 

...

 

Contact Tom Henry at:

[email protected]

or 419-724-6079.

 

    I have to ask, is that amount of bottled water taken from the Great Lakes significant?

 

    Come to think of it, if the Great Lakes states could sell water at $1.00 for 250 mL, why not sell all we can? That's more profitable than Saudi Arabia selling oil, and unlike oil, the water is renewable!

 

    Of course I realize that most of the cost is in the bottle, not the water.

 

    Gee, the world is a strange place!   :laugh:

 

I had the same reaction!  Maybe Ohio's new nickname could be, "the Saudi Arabia of water". 

 

Pretty soon, Southwest Governors will be saying things like, "Our state is addicted to water!".  :lol:

From the 12/4/06 Blade:

 

 

Ohio close to approving water deal

Passage of Great Lakes Compact would give power to 8 states

By TOM HENRY

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

In the waning days of his scandal-ridden administration, Gov. Bob Taft will likely walk away with one of his most coveted political victories in hand: Legislative support for a proposed regional water compact that would give the eight Great Lakes states unprecedented power over the lakes.

 

With reluctant support from industry, the Republican-controlled Ohio General Assembly is on the verge of endorsing the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact.

 

...

 

Contact Tom Henry at: [email protected] or 419-724-6079.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061204/NEWS17/61204009/-1/NEWS

 

From the 12/9/06 Ashtabula Star Beacon:

 

 

Bill would keep water in Ohio

By MARGIE TRAX PAGE

Staff Writer

[email protected]

 

Much like beavers, Ohio legislators are working to dam up waters from the Great Lakes Basin and prevent water diversion to other states.

 

The Ohio House of Representatives is expected to approve today The Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact, known as House Bill 574.

 

The legislation would give the eight Great Lakes states unprecedented power over the lakes, and could bring billions of dollars to the region, sponsoring State Rep. Matthew Dolan, R-Russell Township, said.

 

...

 

http://www.starbeacon.com/local/local_story_343080052

 

From the 12/11/06 PD:

 

 

Legislator holding up Great Lakes water pact

He fears the bill will convert land from private to public

Monday, December 11, 2006

Aaron Marshall

Plain Dealer Bureau

 

Columbus - A Chester Township legislator has temporarily dammed up a bill that would prevent the siphoning of Great Lakes water.

 

The bill, opposed in a one-man campaign by State Sen. Tim Grendell, would make Ohio the first to approve a multistate pact to restrict the sale of water from Lake Erie and the four other Great Lakes.

 

Grendell's concerns over private property rights were enough to delay a House vote on the bill, ten tatively planned last week. The bill, called the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact, appears to still have enough votes to clear the Ohio House.

 

...

 

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

[email protected], 1-800-228-8272

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1165830785151340.xml&coll=2

 

From the 12/14/06 Blade:

 

 

Ohio House OKs Great Lakes protection, but cloud looms

By JIM PROVANCE

BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU

 

COLUMBUS - The Ohio House yesterday voted 81-5 to jump-start a bill designed to give eight states and two Canadian provinces the power to prevent diversion of increasingly valuable Great Lakes water.

 

But the celebration, just the second in any legislative chamber among the affected governments, could be short-lived. Opposition awaits the bill in the Senate over provisions that critics argue could undermine property rights.

 

In a flurry of other legislative activity yesterday, the Senate also approved a bill designed to give Ohioans stronger tools to access government records.

 

...

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061214/NEWS24/612140419/-1/NEWS

 

From the 2/19/07 Blade:

 

 

GREAT LAKES

Ohio approval of water pact faces new snag

Senator voices concerns over Great Lakes property rights

By TOM HENRY

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

Minnesota on Thursday did what many thought Ohio would do: Become the first Great Lakes state to adopt a proposed compact for managing lake withdrawals on a regional basis.

 

By a 57-3 vote, the Minnesota Senate approved the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact with no amendments. Two weeks earlier, the Minnesota House of Representatives passed it by a 97-35 vote, also with no changes.

 

Ohio could be poised to follow suit. But first, supporters may have to overcome a property-rights opposition movement mounted by a Cleveland-area Republican senator.

 

...

 

Contact Tom Henry at: [email protected] or 419-724-6079.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/NEWS06/702190314/-1/RSS

 

From the AP, 4/2/07:

 

 

Great Lakes water deals irk some

 

In 1998, an Ontario consultant sent a shudder through the Great Lakes region by proposing to ship Lake Superior water to Asia. The plan quickly sank. But it inspired the eight states and two Canadian provinces adjoining the lakes to devise a strategy for warding off raids on the system that holds nearly 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water. Their governors reached a deal in 2005, but it takes effect only if ratified by the state legislatures and Congress. In this series, Protecting the Lakes, The Associated Press examines how the pact is faring in the statehouses and why some lawmakers don't like it.

 

John Flesher

 

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- As governors of the Great Lakes states debated how to prevent outsiders from staking a claim to their precious water, advocates warned that without a deal, the region would be at the mercy of an increasingly powerful -- and thirsty -- Sun Belt. But since the eight governors shook hands on a water compact in December 2005, the loudest complaints have surfaced within the Great Lakes region itself, where people find it easier to say "no" to Arizona than to restrain their own appetites.

 

...

 

http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/04/02/great-lakes-water-deals-irk-some/

 

From the AP, 7/3/07:

 

 

Michigan lawmakers renew push to limit water diversion

ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

LANSING, Mich. — Democratic state lawmakers and environmental groups are renewing their push to strengthen laws against diverting water outside the Great Lakes.

 

Legislation announced Monday by House Democrats would remove an exception that allows bottled water to be diverted — unless water bottling plants have state authorization. State law regulating large-scale water withdrawals allows bottled water to be shipped outside the basin in containers smaller than 5.7 gallons.

 

...

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070702/NEWS19/70702017/-1/RSS

 

I think this is one topic we'll all agree on. When they can export sunshine and warm weather, we'll export water.

 

Water is the Great Lakes area's prize

Posted by Michael Scott March 30, 2008 03:03AM

 

Categories: Environment, Impact

 

 

 

They've been praying for rain in the thirsty American South.

 

Will they prey upon the Great Lakes next?

 

Whether diverting Lake Erie or other Great Lakes water to bail out our dried-up fellow states is preposterous or possible is a matter of dramatically different opinions.

 

But when Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue and some state lawmakers bowed their heads last November, they illustrated the continuing desperation as drought persists in parts of the United States.

 

"That picture -- the governor of Georgia praying for rain on the Statehouse steps -- has been burned into my memory, that's for sure," said Sean Logan, director of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. "

 

...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/03/water_is_the_great_lakes_areas.html

We can't be selfish

 

The hell we can't. 

 

Fisher's a personification of the word "dweeb".  At least Strickland has the errr...."testicular fortitude" to say NFW.

We can't be selfish

 

The hell we can't. 

 

Fisher's a personification of the word "dweeb".   At least Strickland has the errr...."testicular fortitude" to say NFW.

 

Agree!    None of us moved out to the desert!

So they want to steal our businesses and residents with unrealistically low taxes, and then have us bail them out when it's proven unsustainable?  I have a better idea for them, if they want our water, they can move back here and have it.

There is also a thread on this subject at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6243.0.html

 

My opinion? The day anyone tries to take our water, they can have it. Right after they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

 

Read Peter Annin's book "The Great Lakes Water Wars." I wrote an article about his new book and took a photo of him for the article at Bay Village's Huntington Beach....

 

If you want to see what happens when you divert water from an inland sea, check out what has happened to the Aral Sea in Kasakhstan.

 

The sea's surface area shrank by approximately 60 percent, and its volume by 80 percent. In 1960, the Aral Sea was the world's fourth-largest lake. By 1998, it had dropped to the eighth-largest. The amount of water it has lost is the equivalent of completely draining Lakes Erie and Ontario. Much of the remaining portions of the Aral Sea are heavily polluted with high level of salinity. The dry sea bed now looks like a desert, but with stranded port cities and even abandoned ships....

 

So they want to steal our businesses and residents with unrealistically low taxes, and then have us bail them out when it's proven unsustainable?  I have a better idea for them, if they want our water, they can move back here and have it.

 

My opinion? The day anyone tries to take our water, they can have it. Right after they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

 

I completely concur with the two sentiments above.  To even consider selling our water resources to these parasitic states like Nevada, Arizona, etc. is as short sighted as selling public infrastructure for quick cash.  I'm happy to subsidize these states slightly through federal tax dollars, as we've done from throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, but if they want it, they can move their business back here where it is sustainable and the bums can stay in Desert Scratch cooking meth and taking handouts,

There is also a thread on this subject at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6243.0.html

 

My opinion? The day anyone tries to take our water, they can have it. Right after they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

 

I think it's pretty much a given that a lot of hayduking and monkeywrenching would go on.

What's "hayduking"? 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hayduke_%28character%29

That is why the statement "We can't be selfish" makes me what to take a baseball bat to the lieutenant governor.

 

(just kidding gov't types who monitor chat rooms)

 

 

Great Lakes Water Compact weighs on region's future

Posted by JKroll April 06, 2008 01:51AM

Cleveland Plain Dealer

 

The future of the Great Lakes may be decided in Ohio and Wisconsin.

 

As lawmakers in those two states debate details of an interstate compact aimed at protecting their waters from being drained away by diversion or wasted away by misuse, the measure is moving swiftly through six other Great Lakes states.

 

And some supporters of the document -- officially titled "The Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River Basin Water Resources Compact" -- are worried that Ohio and Wisconsin are treading water too long.

 

...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04/great_lakes_water_compact_weig.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hayduke_%28character%29

 

 

On this issue we're talking about an alliance between the hard core enviros with the region's partisans of all political stripes.  Which leads to the potential of "Earth First!" fanatical types getting trained by special forces vets.  (While the fictional George Hayduke is an ex Green Beret, people with that sort of training are extremely rare on the left and most "enviroterrorism" is quite amateurish).

 

Don't think this isn't part of the equation that is so far preventing serious discussion of diversion.

The PD has been doing a good job ( :-o) at keeping this in the public's eye... hope that this continues.

 

Water may freshen Northeast Ohio's future

Posted by Michael Scott April 13, 2008 04:22AM

Categories: Impact, Water Compact

 

Imagine a land of plenty where people of great affluence enjoy nearly free and unfettered access to an abundant and life-sustaining reserve.

 

A town on the temperate southern shore of a great lake that has become a global center for water products, services and studies.

 

This community, once smeared in shades of rust and decay when its industries and people moved south and west, now reflects only vibrant hues of green and blue as those thirsty natives return home.

 

...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04/water_may_freshen_northeast_oh.html

So they want to steal our businesses and residents with unrealistically low taxes, and then have us bail them out when it's proven unsustainable?  I have a better idea for them, if they want our water, they can move back here and have it.

 

You sound like Randy when he talks about Newport!

 

We are a terrible state for business. We don't lose manufacturing jobs to China, we lose them to more competitive states like Texas. We're ranked 47th out of 50 when it comes to business competitiveness. We have the third highest corporate income tax in the country and sixth highest personal income tax. Many businesses refuse to even locate here because of our unions. Then we complain about unemployment. I'm all for protecting our water, but at this rate, folks in El Paso will probably be bathing in SmartWater:

We are a terrible state for business. We don't lose manufacturing jobs to China, we lose them to more competitive states like Texas. We're ranked 47th out of 50 when it comes to business competitiveness. We have the third highest corporate income tax in the country and sixth highest personal income tax. Many businesses refuse to even locate here because of our unions. Then we complain about unemployment. I'm all for protecting our water, but at this rate, folks in El Paso will probably be bathing in SmartWater:

 

Ohio is a great state for business.  We just don't have the easy access to illegal labor, the deep water port furthest west on the Gulf of Mexico (and therefore the closest transit routes from Europe to the West Coast of the United States); one of the largest deposits of oil and natural gas in the country; nor a history of willful disregard for the welfare of our citizens.  Also, there have been seven U.S. presidents from Ohio (I am going by the born-and-raised method of counting): Grant, Hayes, Garfield, Benjamin Harrison, McKinley, Taft, Harding.  All of these men were elected during the period from 1872-1920.  Texas has had three presidents, Lyndon Johnson, George Bush, and George Walker Bush, all elected during the period from 1964-2008.  Taking election to the presidency as an analogy to political importance and leadership, it's clear that Texas is "succeeding" in a similar manner that Ohio did during its fifty year run.  But there's nothing to guarantee that Texas will continue to grow in the same manner it has in the fifty years since the end of legal segregation, nor can we say that the type of grow they've recently experienced is sustainable or desirable.

 

I find the idea that unions are destroying the economy of Ohio to be absurd.  I'd be curious to find a reference to an actual company that considered moving to Ohio, then discovered to their horror that we have these absurd unions who'd rather have no membership than jobs (and if they have no membership, how can they have any power to negatively influence the state government?).  I also find it funny that this idea persists as being a major factor stopping development, when the fastest growing city in the United States is Las Vegas, which is also one of the most unionized cities in the country.

 

Also, here's a blurb about the American Legislative Exchange Council, which is one of the sources listed in the above "Growth and Pain" chart (from their website):

 

Background About ALEC

 

How it Started

 

More than a quarter century ago, a small group of state legislators and conservative policy advocates met in Chicago to implement a vision: A bipartisan membership association for conservative state lawmakers who shared a common belief in limited government, free markets, federalism, and individual liberty. Their vision and initiative resulted in the creation of a voluntary membership association for people who believed that government closest to the people was fundamentally more effective, more just, and a better guarantor of freedom than the distant, bloated federal government in Washington, D.C.

 

At that meeting, September 1973, state legislators, such as then Illinois State Rep. Henry Hyde, and Lou Barnett, a veteran of then Gov. Ronald Reagan's 1968 Presidential campaign, together with a handful of others, launched the American Legislative Exchange Council. Among those who were involved with ALEC in its formative years were: Robert Kasten and Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin; John Engler of Michigan; Terry Branstad of Iowa, and John Kasich of Ohio, all of whom moved on to become Governors or Members of Congress. Congressional members who were active during this same period included Senators John Buckley of New York and Jesse Helms of North Carolina, and Congressmen Phil Crane of Illinois and Jack Kemp of New York.

 

Those are some real winners listed above^ (http://www.alec.org/index.php?id=300) and there are more listed if you read the whole background section on their website.  It's like a Murderer's Row of politicians who helped destroy, or at least presided over, the decline and fall of the Midwestern manufacturing economy.  Also, anyone ever notice where the lawmakers who pushed deregulation (Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Jr.) came from?  Southern state, California, Southern state, Southern state.  But no, it's probably the Youngstown Local of the United Steelworkers Union that really controls federal economic policy.

 

Spend some time in the business world and you'll find how little 'competitiveness' as it is described in one's college economic textbook is actually a factor in making real world decisions.

 

Thanks, LincolnKennedy.  Ohio has an economy based on manufacturing and hence is much more at risk in a world of intense wage competition from overseas.  Automation has also taken its toll on manufacturing employment.  That explains our economic malaise.

My opinion? The day anyone tries to take our water, they can have it. Right after they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

 

I totally agree. Who's to stop the flow out once it starts? Who's to guarantee that the net change in the watersheds are 0 (inflow=outflow) over the course of the year.

 

Taking water and transporting it somewhere else is a terrible proposition. Once the flow out starts the demand is there, and unfortunately demand and subsequently money speaks. I fear for the day when Ohio / Great Lakes water is depleted to the point of not being able to use ports or other amenities.

 

It's unfortunate that our government allowed for not so smart growth to occur in the West, but I don't think we should be poaching from other states to rectify misfortunes. They'll need to deal with this through other ways.

 

Not allowed, encouraged.  Subsidized even.

My view on this water issue is that those who need the water will stop at nothing in order to get it.  For example, there was this guy named William Mulholland out in California who was behind getting water to Los Angeles in the early part of the last century.  It had something to do with 'water rights' and how they were obtained.

 

The following from Wikipedia:

 

The 233-mile Los Angeles Aqueduct, completed in November, 1913, took water from the Owens Valley in Central California in a project requiring over 2000 workers and 164 tunnels. Water reached a reservoir in the San Fernando Valley on November 5. At a ceremony that day Mulholland spoke his famous words about this engineering feat: "There it is. Take it."

 

The aqueduct drained the 100-square-mile Owens Lake absolutely dry by 1928, which started the California Water Wars (a fictionalized form of the story was the basis for the film Chinatown). The acquisition of water rights had been underhanded and Owens Valley farmers resisted violently, even dynamiting the aqueduct at Jawbone Canyon in 1924, by opening the Alabama gates and diverting the flow of water for four days, and raising prices. Los Angeles was forced to negotiate, and Mulholland was quoted as saying he "half-regretted the demise of so many of the valley’s orchard trees, because now there were no longer enough trees to hang all the troublemakers who live there."

 

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mulholland

^---- The difference in that story is that California was able to take water from the mountain areas by gravity, that is, by building a conduit for water to flow downhill.

 

  The western cities of Las Vegas, etc., are at a higher elevation than the great lakes. They cannot take the water by gravity; it must be pumped. Pumping water is expensive and requires large amounts of energy. Therefore, I wouldn't worry too much about the western cities taking great lakes water.

Also Atlanta sits above 1,000ft., twice as high as the great lakes and 1,000 feet uphill from any new desalination plant on the Atlantic ocean. 

My view on this water issue is that those who need the water will stop at nothing in order to get it.  For example, there was this guy named William Mulholland out in California who was behind getting water to Los Angeles in the early part of the last century.  It had something to do with 'water rights' and how they were obtained.

 

The following from Wikipedia:

 

The 233-mile Los Angeles Aqueduct, completed in November, 1913, took water from the Owens Valley in Central California in a project requiring over 2000 workers and 164 tunnels. Water reached a reservoir in the San Fernando Valley on November 5. At a ceremony that day Mulholland spoke his famous words about this engineering feat: "There it is. Take it."

 

The aqueduct drained the 100-square-mile Owens Lake absolutely dry by 1928, which started the California Water Wars (a fictionalized form of the story was the basis for the film Chinatown). The acquisition of water rights had been underhanded and Owens Valley farmers resisted violently, even dynamiting the aqueduct at Jawbone Canyon in 1924, by opening the Alabama gates and diverting the flow of water for four days, and raising prices. Los Angeles was forced to negotiate, and Mulholland was quoted as saying he "half-regretted the demise of so many of the valley’s orchard trees, because now there were no longer enough trees to hang all the troublemakers who live there."

 

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mulholland

 

The book "Unintended Consequences" riles a lot of statists, but at the very least the section where the former SAS officer briefs the President about the nature of the IRA should be required reading for any government officials who thinks they can simply defecate on a significant segment of the population.

The Second Los Angeles Aqueduct and the California Aqueduct use a large amount of pumping to get the water up and over the high desert northeast of Los Angeles.  The Wikipedia citation says the California Aqueduct has a lift of 1926 feet!  The Second Los Angeles Aqueduct transports water from as far away as the east side of the Sierra Mountains!!  Southern California also uses 40% of the Lower Colorado River, if I recall correctly !!!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Aqueduct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Aqueduct

 

Five minute story from NPR:

 

"Southwest May Pipe In Water from Great Lakes"

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=17354828&m=17354804

 

We are a terrible state for business. We don't lose manufacturing jobs to China, we lose them to more competitive states like Texas. We're ranked 47th out of 50 when it comes to business competitiveness. We have the third highest corporate income tax in the country and sixth highest personal income tax. Many businesses refuse to even locate here because of our unions. Then we complain about unemployment. I'm all for protecting our water, but at this rate, folks in El Paso will probably be bathing in SmartWater:

 

Ohio is a great state for business.  We just don't have the easy access to illegal labor, the deep water port furthest west on the Gulf of Mexico (and therefore the closest transit routes from Europe to the West Coast of the United States); one of the largest deposits of oil and natural gas in the country; nor a history of willful disregard for the welfare of our citizens.  Also, there have been seven U.S. presidents from Ohio (I am going by the born-and-raised method of counting): Grant, Hayes, Garfield, Benjamin Harrison, McKinley, Taft, Harding.  All of these men were elected during the period from 1872-1920.  Texas has had three presidents, Lyndon Johnson, George Bush, and George Walker Bush, all elected during the period from 1964-2008.  Taking election to the presidency as an analogy to political importance and leadership, it's clear that Texas is "succeeding" in a similar manner that Ohio did during its fifty year run.  But there's nothing to guarantee that Texas will continue to grow in the same manner it has in the fifty years since the end of legal segregation, nor can we say that the type of grow they've recently experienced is sustainable or desirable.

 

I find the idea that unions are destroying the economy of Ohio to be absurd.  I'd be curious to find a reference to an actual company that considered moving to Ohio, then discovered to their horror that we have these absurd unions who'd rather have no membership than jobs (and if they have no membership, how can they have any power to negatively influence the state government?).  I also find it funny that this idea persists as being a major factor stopping development, when the fastest growing city in the United States is Las Vegas, which is also one of the most unionized cities in the country.

 

Also, here's a blurb about the American Legislative Exchange Council, which is one of the sources listed in the above "Growth and Pain" chart (from their website):

 

Background About ALEC

 

How it Started

 

More than a quarter century ago, a small group of state legislators and conservative policy advocates met in Chicago to implement a vision: A bipartisan membership association for conservative state lawmakers who shared a common belief in limited government, free markets, federalism, and individual liberty. Their vision and initiative resulted in the creation of a voluntary membership association for people who believed that government closest to the people was fundamentally more effective, more just, and a better guarantor of freedom than the distant, bloated federal government in Washington, D.C.

 

At that meeting, September 1973, state legislators, such as then Illinois State Rep. Henry Hyde, and Lou Barnett, a veteran of then Gov. Ronald Reagan's 1968 Presidential campaign, together with a handful of others, launched the American Legislative Exchange Council. Among those who were involved with ALEC in its formative years were: Robert Kasten and Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin; John Engler of Michigan; Terry Branstad of Iowa, and John Kasich of Ohio, all of whom moved on to become Governors or Members of Congress. Congressional members who were active during this same period included Senators John Buckley of New York and Jesse Helms of North Carolina, and Congressmen Phil Crane of Illinois and Jack Kemp of New York.

 

Those are some real winners listed above^ (http://www.alec.org/index.php?id=300) and there are more listed if you read the whole background section on their website.  It's like a Murderer's Row of politicians who helped destroy, or at least presided over, the decline and fall of the Midwestern manufacturing economy.  Also, anyone ever notice where the lawmakers who pushed deregulation (Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Jr.) came from?  Southern state, California, Southern state, Southern state.  But no, it's probably the Youngstown Local of the United Steelworkers Union that really controls federal economic policy.

 

Spend some time in the business world and you'll find how little 'competitiveness' as it is described in one's college economic textbook is actually a factor in making real world decisions.

 

 

Excellent post. I belong to the United Brotherhood of Carpenters & Joiners and our International training center is in Vegas. You're not kidding about Vegas being a 'union town'. Those excuses go out the window when you talk about companies locating back to Ohio; locate down south and train hillbillies or come back home to the Midwest and make money cause your labor knows what its doing the first time.

      Keep squeezing the middle class; that's what it's all about. This nation is so screwed, and everyone outside of the blue-collar trades doesn't want to see it.

Macro statement here: issues like this are the ones we should be forcing politicians to talk about. They provide a singular cause upon which disparate groups and individuals can work together and solve. Water management in particular dovetails with so many other issues--economic growth, sustainability, land use, public/private domain to name a few--that you could actually affect positive change on virtually every corner of domestic policy.

 

I'm kingfish out of water and I approve this message.

I say they better pray for rain, If they are religious...

In related news:

 

Drought Has Georgia Revisiting Border Dispute

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902283.html

Our lake is great..

^^Does anyone know what the average water bill is for someone in Atlanta?     

 

I pay about $100 every 3 months.

Information about atlanta water bills:

 

http://technorati.com/posts/UJS2VFK4UyNSkdjIbQ6XgSl7WgwM%2BQN1lwo1UWEGIAI%3D

 

http://www.ajc.com/health/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/04/30/sewercost_0501.html