June 7, 200817 yr And then there's this from thirsty, sweltering Texas in regards to a discussion from another about Texas' electricity bills going up tenfold.... http://www.peakoil.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=41087 As a trained Texas geologist and IT worker, I can only comment on this from the consumer standpoint. The grid does a remarkably good job, in my opinion, of handling the insane load during the summer months. Sometimes, on very hot days, they institute very limited rolling blackouts, but nothing like what was seen in California a few years ago. Imagine the power draw of the cities of Dallas, Houston, Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, Waco area, Brownsville, Laredo from June through September where the temperature can exceed 100 degrees for over 40 straight days. No doubt electricity price will rise, but the real long-term concern for this area is water. People can live here without electricity, as brutal of an existence as that may be. It can be done. But not without water. Strain on our water systems is ever increasing, and aquifer elevation of the big aquifers in Texas (Ogalala, Edwards, etc) is ever decreasing. We are experiencing a lot of growth currently, as our economy has barely skipped a beat while some parts of the country are turning into wastelands (Michigan, California). We see a lot of immigrants from those states. Much can be done to alleviate the strain on the system. Water and electricity waste is rampant here. Banning of irrigation (excluding agriculture) and forced drawdawns of electricity usage would go a long way. Roof rainwater collection would go a loooong way to solving our water concerns. How much of the problem it would solve, and the best way to go about doing this is debatable, of course. I read that Texas surpassed California as the #1 producer of wind power in the country last year. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 10, 200817 yr Maybe we (as in Cleveland) should purchase a bunch of those Cleveland+ banners, change the printing from "we got it together" to "you can flush your toilet here" and hang them all throughout cities like Atlanta and LA.
June 11, 200817 yr That's the Masonic Hall, between Euclid and Chester in the East 30s. My college graduation ceremonies from Dyke College (now Myers) were held there in 1992. Maybe we (as in Cleveland) should purchase a bunch of those Cleveland+ banners, change the printing from "we got it together" to "you can flush your toilet here" and hang them all throughout cities like Atlanta and LA. An "A" for the attempt, but a "C" for crass. How about: "Thirsty for business? Grow yours in Cleveland." "Pull your head out of the sand and get your butt back to Cleveland." "Our river used to burn. Now the whole city is smoking hot!" "Cleveland: access to 6,000 trillion gallons of freshwater. And you?" "Sun causes cancer. Freshwater causes life. See you in Cleveland." "Thirsty for a reason to come to Cleveland? We've 6,000 trillion of them." "Sure you can have Cleveland's water. May we suggest a realtor?" "Cleveland. The rain on your parade." "6,000 trillion gallons of water. 'Nough said...." How's that?!?! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 11, 200817 yr Nevada, California, Arizona, and Georgia can't export sunshine and warm weather. Why should we export our greatest resource? I look at each state as a corporation competing with the other states in the union for people and businesses. Sunbelt states have great weather and lower taxes. As a result, Sunbelt communities have prospered. Unfortunately, we can never offer great weather year round. However, we have the Great Lakes. So, why should we give up our last competitive advantage? We are already losing people and business to these areas. I’m a little offended that some Sunbelt politicians think they’re going to pump water from the Great Lakes to support their communities. The Great Lakes region needs to let the country know we have plenty of water and we are open for business.
June 11, 200817 yr I always hear people rave about the weather in Sunbelt states. Having relatives in Georgia and Florida, I can tell you that I absolutely like our weather here better. I enjoy all 4 seasons. When they come up in the winter, they are fascinated by snow. When I go down there in the winter (especially around Christmas and New Years Day), it just doesn't feel right for it to be 60 or 70 outside. And when I go down there in the summer, when it's 94 and humid EVERY DAY and nobody even wants to go outside, I'm really reminded of why I love Cleveland's weather. By the time the warm Spring weather rolls around, there's nothing like the excitement it brings when you're just itching to get outside. They never get that in the South, they just get tired of the "too hot" weather. I think it's definitely a "grass is greaner" thing for many Northerners.
June 11, 200817 yr ^I agree with you, jam. But it sure is nice to leave Cleveland in February when it's 15 degrees and drive/fly to florida that same day and its 80 and sunshine; its just, I don't know, re-energizing...it always puts a smile on my face. :-D
June 11, 200817 yr I too agree with jam. My mothers been here for 50 years, and at the first snow, damn near all of my moms family is off to PR. I'm like, ummm, it's not the cold. They claim they need to get their batteries charged. I'm like whateva! I don't particularly like our late winter, but I love Cleveland's spring. And a real Christmas is not a Christmas without snow. Palm trees with lights is not Christmas. It's ridiculous.
June 11, 200817 yr I agree about the length of winter...a month less or so would be perfect (but a well-timed week long vacation to Florida in February/March certainly helps). But, hey, I'll take what we got over the boredom of 72 and sunny all year round ala San Diego (and most people will call me crazy for that). And, yes, when I was in Florida or Christmas one year, we went to see a Christmas light display that the local paper was raving about. It just didn't seem right in the 75 degree heat. (I prefer the simple decoration better anyway, such as a snow covered pine tree with limited color bulbs on it).
June 11, 200817 yr I think we need to build the world's biggest fountain in Cleveland as a calling card to all those in the drought areas.
June 11, 200817 yr Make it public art, with sculptures of Southerners fighting each other to sip the water.
June 11, 200817 yr Or we could make someone like the Brooklyn/London Telectroscope and have it pointed at our lake, and then Phoenix could look at it and wish they were in Cleveland.
June 16, 200816 yr Interesting article in this week's Business Week regarding the value of water, and who's investing in it. This article focuses on T. Boone Pickens and his buying up of water rights in Texas, but if what is being projected comes true, you're going to see more and more pressure to access the resources we have here. The article is much too big to paste on here, but here's the link http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_25/b4089040017753.htm?chan=search "If water is the new oil, T. Boone Pickens is a modern-day John D. Rockefeller. Pickens owns more water than any other individual in the U.S. and is looking to control even more. He hopes to sell the water he already has, some 65 billion gallons a year, to Dallas, transporting it over 250 miles, 11 counties, and about 650 tracts of private property. The electricity generated by an enormous wind farm he is setting up in the Panhandle would also flow along that corridor. As far as Pickens is concerned, he could be selling wind, water, natural gas, or uranium; it's all a matter of supply and demand. "There are people who will buy the water when they need it. And the people who have the water want to sell it. That's the blood, guts, and feathers of the thing," he says. In the coming decades, as growing numbers of people live in urban areas and climate change makes some regions much more prone to drought, water—or what many are calling "blue gold"—will become an increasingly scarce resource. By 2030 nearly half of the world's population will inhabit areas with severe water stress, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development. Pickens understands that. And while Texas is unusually lax in its laws about pumping groundwater, the rush to control water resources is gathering speed around the planet. In Australia, now in the sixth year of a drought, brokers in urban areas are buying up water rights from farmers. Rural residents around the U.S. are trying to sell their land (and water) to multi- national water bottlers like Nestlé (BW—Apr. 14). Companies that use large quantities of the precious resource to run their businesses are seeking to lock up water supplies. One is Royal Dutch Shell, which is buying groundwater rights in Colorado as it prepares to drill for oil in the shale deposits there. "
June 18, 200816 yr That's the Masonic Hall, between Euclid and Chester in the East 30s. My college graduation ceremonies from Dyke College (now Myers) were held there in 1992. Maybe we (as in Cleveland) should purchase a bunch of those Cleveland+ banners, change the printing from "we got it together" to "you can flush your toilet here" and hang them all throughout cities like Atlanta and LA. An "A" for the attempt, but a "C" for crass. How about: "Thirsty for business? Grow yours in Cleveland." "Pull your head out of the sand and get your butt back to Cleveland." "Our river used to burn. Now the whole city is smoking hot!" "Cleveland: access to 6,000 trillion gallons of freshwater. And you?" "Sun causes cancer. Freshwater causes life. See you in Cleveland." "Thirsty for a reason to come to Cleveland? We've 6,000 trillion of them." "Sure you can have Cleveland's water. May we suggest a realtor?" "Cleveland. The rain on your parade." "6,000 trillion gallons of water. 'Nough said...." How's that?!?! Cleveland: Water, water, everywhere....and not a drop to share.
June 19, 200816 yr If Ohio had a surplus of food, would we say that food is our "secret weapon" when the others had a shortage?
June 19, 200816 yr Or we could make someone like the Brooklyn/London Telectroscope and have it pointed at our lake, and then Phoenix could look at it and wish they were in Cleveland. Cleveland to Phoenix is 1748 mi. NYC to Paris is 3628 mi. Maybe we could get the Telectroscope at half price.
June 20, 200816 yr If Ohio had a surplus of food, would we say that food is our "secret weapon" when the others had a shortage? What kind of food? The water we are talking about is fresh H2O.
June 20, 200816 yr If Ohio had a surplus of food, would we say that food is our "secret weapon" when the others had a shortage? Yes, I believe so. I imagine the heartland of America takes some level of pride in being the United States' pantry. We can take pride in being the sink. :)
June 20, 200816 yr Just got this e-mail from the Ohio Environmental Council....... ________ Greetings, By now you have heard the news that the Great Lakes Compact has passed through Ohio's legislature. The Compact is an agreement with all eight Great Lakes states to protect our water and keep it in the region. The OEC led the charge for a decade to make sure that our most precious water source stays in Ohio for generations to come. Our economy and way of life depends on it. And we depend on you! The Ohio Environmental Council could not win these landmark victories without our members. Please join the OEC today. In addition to passing the historic Great Lakes Compact, we have also been instrumental in getting Ohio to start using renewable energy and using our electricity more effectively. In fact, we now have one of the strongest energy efficiency laws in the country! Need yet another reason to join? Donate through our website and your gift will be matched by musician Jack Johnson’s Ohana Charitable Foundation. So if you donate $15, it becomes $30. Donate $50? It becomes $100. Thanks! Keith Dimoff Executive Director "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 200816 yr Yay!! http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/06/gov_strickland_signs_lakes_wat.html Gov. Strickland signs Lakes water pact Posted by Aaron Marshall June 27, 2008 17:42PM A seven-year effort to protect the Great Lakes came to a close Friday in Ohio as Gov. Ted Strickland signed on to a multistate agreement preventing fresh water from being siphoned away. ... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 28, 200816 yr Governor Strickland signs Lakes water pact Posted by kturner June 27, 2008 17:33PM COLUMBUS-- A seven-year effort to protect the Great Lakes came to a close Friday in Ohio as Gov. Ted Strickland signed on to a multistate agreement preventing fresh water from being siphoned away. Ohio becomes the sixth Great Lakes state to ratify the compact, a legal blueprint that political leaders began drafting in 2001 in an attempt to keep coveted lake water from being overused, diverted or otherwise hijacked. "It's a very precious resource that is important to Ohio citizens, and it's important to our economy that it be adequately protected," Strickland said in an interview in his Statehouse office. ... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/06/governor_strickland_signs_lake.html
July 9, 200816 yr All Great Lakes states have approved water compact Posted by Associated Press July 09, 2008 14:44PM Categories: Business Impact, Water Compact Traverse City, Mich. -- A compact designed to prevent remote regions or countries from tapping into the Great Lakes was approved Wednesday by the last of the eight states that surround one of the world's largest sources of fresh water. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/all_great_lakes_states_have_ap.html
September 23, 200816 yr U.S. House OKs Great Lakes water compact by The Associated Press Tuesday September 23, 2008, 12:25 PM WASHINGTON -- The U.S. House has ratified a compact to prevent the diversion of water from the Great Lakes, adding protections for one of the world's largest sources of fresh water. It passed Tuesday on a vote of 390-25. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. http://www.cleveland.com/realtimenews/index.ssf/2008/09/us_house_oks_great_lakes_water.html
September 28, 200816 yr Yet Kucinich hated it, while the powerful Ohio Environmental Council loved it. Guess who I'm more likely to believe?!?! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 200816 yr you know what? its hard to think of it like this because we're supposed to be the 'united' states and all, but the pact is vitally important because the issue is seriously one to go to war over if need be. looking at you phoenix, las vegas and los angeles! :whip: :shoot:
September 30, 200816 yr ^Some parts of the world have to use energy-intensive "desalinization" plants to provide drinking water for their cities. Darn right that this is important.
October 1, 200816 yr Not just them, but booming southeastern cities are drawing in salt water from the Atlantic Ocean through aquifers that are/were their sources of freshwater. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 3, 200816 yr President Bush signs Great Lakes water compact Posted by Associated Press October 03, 2008 14:13PM Categories: Breaking News, Real Time News, Water Compact TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. — President Bush on Friday signed a long-debated compact designed to prevent Great Lakes water from being sent to thirsty areas while requiring the region's eight states to regulate their own water use. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/10/president_bush_signs_great_lak.html
October 3, 200816 yr Mississippi River Facts Volume: At Lake Itasca, the average flow rate is 6 cubic feet per second. At Upper St. Anthony's Falls, the northernmost Lock and Dam, the average flow rate is 12,000 cubic ft/second. At New Orleans, the average flow rate is 600,000 cubic feet per second. There are 7.489 gallons of water in a cubic foot. One cubic foot of water weighs 65.4 pounds. A 48 foot semi-truck trailer is a 3,600 cu. ft. container. At Itasca, it would take 10 minutes for one semi-trailer of water to flow out of the lake into the Mississippi. At St. Anthony Falls, the equivalent of 3 semi-trailers full of water go over the falls every second. At New Orleans, the equivalent of 166 semi-trailers of water flow past Algiers Point each second. 4.5 million gallons of fresh water flow into the gulf of Mexico every second. Anyone think the cost to harness some of this water would be cheaper than desalinating it once it enters the gulf? Just curious, seems like such a waste.
October 4, 200816 yr well at least the prez signed the thing. but of course that just means check we have to check it extra close for loopholes like the basin exemption, whatever that is, and the 5.7 gallon bottled water exemption. those are worrying because there are probably ways that can be 'legally' manipulated.
November 17, 200816 yr Groups want stronger control of Great Lakes water Associated Press - November 17, 2008 11:04 AM ET http://www.wxix.com/Global/story.asp?S=9363086 TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. (AP) - A coalition of environmental groups wants to amend a recently enacted compact to prevent shipment of Great Lakes water outside the region. The groups kicked off their campaign Sunday in Traverse City, Mich. Leading the effort is Michigan Citizens for Water Conservation. Its attorney, Jim Olson, says Congress should delete language from the compact that appears to designate water as a product. ...
February 18, 200916 yr I don't know why our region isn't marketing itself as a region with an abundance of water. This just seems like a no-brainer, and will seem even more so as time goes on... Los Angeles nears water rationing By Steve Gorman Steve Gorman 2 hrs 25 mins ago LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – With a recent flurry of winter storms doing little to dampen California's latest drought, the nation's biggest public utility voted on Tuesday to impose water rationing in Los Angeles for the first time in nearly two decades. Under the plan adopted in principle by the governing board of the L.A. Department of Water and Power, homes and businesses would pay a penalty rate -- nearly double normal prices -- for any water they use in excess of a reduced monthly allowance. The five-member board plans to formally vote on details of the measure next month. ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090218/ts_nm/us_water_california/print
May 16, 201510 yr Bump because this has been happening: http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2015/04/21/william-shatners-folly-our-water-will-never-go-to-california-southwest/
January 9Jan 9 Anyone (else) think the Great Lakes Compact will need some defending in the near future? I believe it's secure, but diligence is justified.
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