January 6, 201213 yr i believe the original union station was the largest building in the usa for quite some time (world maybe?). For some reason the description: largest structure under a single roof comes to mind. But I don't know if it was just USA or the world. I find it hard to believe the world because of all those European train stations under huge trainsheds, but they may have come later. i agree. yet we have that factoid and also its hard to really tell just how big the first union station really was. given what few photos we have seen it certainly looks huge and impressive. also, a lot of the big old world stations that survive today you are thinking of were mostly built a bit later on. edit -- i had forgotten but the mega-station we are talking about and have a few photos of above was actually the second union station (1865-1959), there was an original version built 1851-3 that was a collection of multiple buildings serving the various lines. a correction to what is said below as other sites said the o.g. union only partially burned in 1864, some of its remaining structures survived and were in use until 1875-1895ish: Though the Cleveland Memorial Shoreway highway has since swallowed it up, Union Depot was a transportation hub for a century. Originally built in 1853, Union Depot unified the railroad stations into one area. Many passenger railroads passed through Union Depot, including the Cleveland-Erie-Buffalo railroad, the Cleveland-Cincinnati-Columbus railroad, the Cleveland-Pittsburgh railroad, the Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit railroad, and more. The depot itself consisted of many wooden sheds serving as small stations for each railway. Union Depot cost over $75,000, and stretched from Bank Street to Water Street, today’s W. 6th and W.9th streets. In 1864, Union Depot experienced a terrible fire and burned down. When it was rebuilt in 1865, it became the largest terminal in America. The second Union Depot cost more than $475,000, and remained the largest building under one roof – until the New York station exceeded it a few years later. Still, Cleveland’s depot remained the largest station between New York and the Mississippi. Union Depot’s centrality allowed Cleveland to prosper after the Civil War. Cleveland soon became an important city known for its transportation systems that allowed travel to both the east and west. During the 1900’s Union Depot became too small for the amount of trains and passengers traveling to and through Cleveland. When Terminal Tower was built in 1930, it replaced Union Depot. Only the Cleveland-Pennsylvania railroad continued to use Union Depot until September of 1953. Union Depot was eventually torn down in 1959. a little more about it here: http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/335
January 7, 201213 yr Lord, why do I feel old looking at those pictures?! Because you are. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 7, 201213 yr nothing says Cleveland-in-the-70's than "sewage dumping" and steel mills. I have a vague memory of that Society Bank sign. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
January 7, 201213 yr I'm sorry, I have phone on mute right now. But thanks for calling and we'll return the call later when we care. Goodbye. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 13, 201213 yr Hey Barneyboy or any others in this forum: I'm currently working on a documentary about the saving of PlayhouseSquare in the 70's and 80's. I'm desperately trying to find more info about the infamous bowling ball roll down Euclid Ave. Unfortunately, I was born in 1981 so I wasn't around when it happened. Does anyone know if it was on local tv news and/or remember what station? I know it's a reach but I'd appreciate the help!! Thanks!
January 13, 201213 yr Hey Barneyboy or any others in this forum: I'm currently working on a documentary about the saving of PlayhouseSquare in the 70's and 80's. I'm desperately trying to find more info about the infamous bowling ball roll down Euclid Ave. Unfortunately, I was born in 1981 so I wasn't around when it happened. Does anyone know if it was on local tv news and/or remember what station? I know it's a reach but I'd appreciate the help!! Thanks! Welcome you whippersnapper! It was a Big Chuck and Lil John skit ...born in 1981...why you little...
January 18, 201213 yr Thanks SO MUCH!!! I don't know what I can owe you, but I owe you one!! Honey you can't afford to owe me!
January 27, 201213 yr very different today! Wood engraving of Public Square as it appeared in 1873 with horse drawn streetcars. (Cleveland State University) The second interurban station circa 1910. The former Higbee's Building of Cleveland Union Terminal is now at this site. (Thomas Patton) more oldeness here: http://www.lakeshorerailmaps.com/publicsquare.html
January 27, 201213 yr Well, we see where the The Christmas Story lamp got its influence from... "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 7, 201213 yr A Nike Missle in 1958 The Nike Hercules actually had nuclear weapons capability.
February 7, 201213 yr I have that photo too! Those were anti-aircraft Nike and Ajax missiles to shoot down Soviet bombers. All large U.S. cities were ringed with these missile bases. OK, quick trivia time.... Who can name where the seven Nike/Ajax missile sites were located in Cuyahoga County and what's at each site now? You already have the answer about one of the sites! ;) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 201213 yr The only other one I know is Manry park with is now a park and swimming pool in willowick.
February 7, 201213 yr The only other one I know is Manry park with is now a park and swimming pool in willowick. That's one of them. Even though it is in Lake County, it's still part of the network arranged to protect Cuyahoga County industries. It's launch base was at 33605 Curtis Blvd in Eastlake, and missile control was housed at 30100 Arnold Road, site of Manry Park. I'll give you a clue: two of the missile bases were right on the lake. Two more were within a couple miles of the lake -- one east (Eastlake/Willowick) and one west. Three more were inland -- one southwest, one south/southeast and one east/southeast. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 201213 yr The only other one I know is Manry park with is now a park and swimming pool in willowick. Manry Park had the barracks for the troops that manned the missiles, but didn't actually have any missiles at that location. The location in Eastlake was at what is now the JFK senior center on 336th St. (About a mile away.) I know there was one in Painesville (but I don't remember where), one in Bratenahl (just up the hill from Dike 14), one at Burke, and that one in Eastlake. Was there one out near Lordstown too? (I think I heard that at some point.)
February 7, 201213 yr There were also some where Tri-C West Campus is now on York and Pleasant Valley, and many others. Cool wiki site... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Defense_Area#Ohio
February 7, 201213 yr The only other one I know is Manry park with is now a park and swimming pool in willowick. Manry Park had the barracks for the troops that manned the missiles, but didn't actually have any missiles at that location. The location in Eastlake was at what is now the JFK senior center on 336th St. (About a mile away.) I know there was one in Painesville (but I don't remember where) , one in Bratenahl (just up the hill from Dike 14), one at Burke, and that one in Eastlake. Was there one out near Lordstown too? (I think I heard that at some point.) I don't remember exactly where either (though I certainly should, since it was often mentioned in the 60's), but I think it was in Painesville Township in the vicinity of Grand River near the lake, as one approached Mentor. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
February 7, 201213 yr Burke and Dike 14?? Last time I snuck into Dike 14 there was still a good deal of cryptic military signage still lying around. Kinda cool.
February 7, 201213 yr There were also some where Tri-C West Campus is now on York and Pleasant Valley, and many others. Cool wiki site... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Defense_Area#Ohio That's a very good list except for the last listing for Lordstown, which is actually for the West Shore missile site. Here's what I have: http://ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=NMB NIKE MISSILE BASES (1955-71) were built at 7 sites in Cuyahoga County (with an 8th location in Lake County). The bases, constructed at a cost of $12 million by the M. J. Boyle Co. of Chicago, were part of the U.S. air defense system. The bases for Cuyahoga County were located at: + Rocky River-Fairview Park (launch base near the Westlake-Fairview Park border, control area at 21700 Westwood Ave.); Today the site of Tri-City Park. + Parma-Parma Hts. (launch base at 11000 York Rd., control area east of Parma Park Blvd.); Today the site of Tri-C West and Nike Park. + Garfield Hts.-Independence (launch base at 7330 Stone Rd., control area at 5640 Briarcliff); Today these are the sites of the Garfield Heights Little Theatre (Briarcliff) and Independence Middle School athletic fields (Stone). + Warrensville Twp. (launch base at Richmond and Harvard roads, control area on Richmond Rd.); Today the site of Tri-C East and Little Sisters of the Poor. + Willowick (launch base at 33605 Curtis, control area at 30100 Arnold); Today the site of the Willoughby-Eastlake City School District Transportation Department (Curtis) and Willowick's Manry Park (Arnold). + Bratenahl (launch base at 555 E. 88th St., control area at Gordon Park); Today the north end of the Rockefeller Park Greenhouse and Gordon Park. + Burke Lakefront Airport (launch base at the northeast corner of BURKE LAKEFRONT AIRPORT, control area at E. 40th and MEMORIAL SHOREWAY). Each launch base consisted of a battery of Nike-Ajax missiles, missile-assembly, generator, acid-storage buildings, a fueling area, underground missile storage and launchers, barracks, and a launcher-control trailer. The control area, one-half mile from the launch area, consisted of a mess hall, administration building, barracks, radar tower, and control van. Built principally to counter an airborne threat from the Soviet Union, the bases soon became obsolete. In 1959 more sophisticated Nike-Hercules missile replaced the Nike-Ajax missiles at the Rocky River-Fairview Park and Bratenahl bases. By Aug. 1961 only the Warrensville and Parma-Parma Hts. Nike-Ajax bases remained operational. Ten years later, all of the bases, including those equipped with the Nike-Hercules missile, were closed. The bases, once closed, were either razed or turned to other purposes. The Parma-Parma Hts. launch site became the location of the Western Campus of CUYAHOGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE; the Garfield Hts.-Independence bases were turned over to the boards of education of their respective communities, as was the Willowick launch site. The Bratenahl base eventually became the headquarters of the U.S. Navy Finance Center. Last Modified: 27 Mar 1998 10:47:45 AM I like that map at the link you posted, W28th. This is the map (see the Mentor/Painesville site at the far right).... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 201213 yr So you're saying the current CLE U.S. Navy Finance Center is STILL at the Bratenahl site? That seems like a lot of space and very few buildings for such an endeavor. I bet the UFO sitings over Lake Erie have something to do with this location
February 7, 201213 yr ^The Navy Finance Center hasn't existed since '91 when it was merged into DFAS (Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and is mostly in the Federal Building downtown. The Bratenahl site is used by DFAS for housing servers and file storage. It's also used by DCMA (Defense Contract Management Agency) as offices.
February 7, 201213 yr ^Thanks! I drive by it regularly and wondered what DCMA stood for. But I'll still put a little money the UFO angle.
February 7, 201213 yr ^Thanks! I drive by it regularly and wondered what DCMA stood for. But I'll still put a little money the UFO angle. Me too! I watched too many movies like this in the 70s with Superhost when he was on Channel 61 and later on 43...... Earth vs The Flying Saucers clip5 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 201213 yr There was a small Nike base at the west end of Detroit Ave. in Lakewood. I was on a tour the Army gave in the '50's when I was a kid. The base was there in the 50's and 60's but gone by '69 or '70. Now the site is the parking lot for Beck Center, at least that's what it was last time I was in the 'hood back in the 90's. Still shows that way on google earth.
April 1, 201213 yr There was a small Nike base at the west end of Detroit Ave. in Lakewood. I was on a tour the Army gave in the '50's when I was a kid. The base was there in the 50's and 60's but gone by '69 or '70. Now the site is the parking lot for Beck Center, at least that's what it was last time I was in the 'hood back in the 90's. Still shows that way on google earth. Ah, thanks. So the base was behind the storefront part of the Beck Center where the new building and parking lot are now? The Beck uses the back building for special events and as a dance studio I believe. It is still referred to as the "Armory"
April 2, 201213 yr ^^ Well, unless I'm seeing things, there's a PNC Bank sign on the current branch location just north of Market Garden... http://g.co/maps/7ez4v
April 2, 201213 yr ^^ Well, unless I'm seeing things, there's a PNC Bank sign on the current branch location just north of Market Garden... http://g.co/maps/7ez4v Are you saying you think that's a recent picture? It has to be pre mid-eighties, since 200 Public Square isn't visible. I was trying to look at the cars to get a better idea, but it's hard to tell. I would guess it's from the fifties or sixties.
April 2, 201213 yr :D April Fools! My small contribution to the day! Thats my very basic beginner photoshop skills, which I have none, just downloaded a free trial. I tried getting rid of Key, 200 public square, and riverview tower as they were the biggest give aways. Great eye buckeye1! You had a very good reason to be suspicious. Great attention to detail.
April 2, 201213 yr ^Whatever; that photo clearly shows that things were way better in Cleveland back then.
April 2, 201213 yr Good one. Got me. My initial response was..... wow, so the Landmark always was a dirtbag
April 2, 201213 yr :D April Fools! My small contribution to the day! Thats my very basic beginner photoshop skills, which I have none, just downloaded a free trial. I tried getting rid of Key, 200 public square, and riverview tower as they were the biggest give aways. Great eye buckeye1! You had a very good reason to be suspicious. Great attention to detail. You...why you ..... I was so trying to figure out when that pic was taken! You're going to get "it" good!
April 2, 201213 yr What I cannot understand is why we went to huge seas of pavement for parking lots with huge setbacks for the buildings..... If the time came to accommodate both pedestrian and auto traffic, when building anything newer at the time on the photo.......and even today, why not maintain the close setbacks and place the parking in rear, instead...with entrances in the back...sort of how Lakewood has it at that drugstore on Detroit... Was it a Discount Drug Mart or something? It has been a while since I lived near there, but that is the idea,....the auto traffic is accommodated while the curb/urban appeal preserved. This HUMONGOUS 300 foot setback and giant sea of pavement suburban model is so utterly unnecessary. Another thought is how disability UN-friendly the huge setback scene really is. The fact that those places (like in the burbs) have an army of handicap parking spaces that still requires a distance to walk for anyone who is legitimately disabled.....SOOOO, this model in the photo is actually better for the disabled....and the suburban model, where we seem to have so much 'disability' is not the way to go. I find it even harder to understand some of these newer developments with a sea of parking lots in front of a Starbucks and the customers STILL find it necessary to park in the fire lane on the curb! Probably the same folks that fight over the close space or even valet their car at the gym. :) But back to the topic....
April 2, 201213 yr ^Whatever; that photo clearly shows that things were way better in Cleveland back then. :) Nice job. BTW, I'm bummed that MayDay didn't do his usual April Fool's Day joke on us this year. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 2, 201213 yr ^Whatever; that photo clearly shows that things were way better in Cleveland back then. :) Nice job. BTW, I'm bummed that MayDay didn't do his usual April Fool's Day joke on us this year. It just means we will have to be vigilante the rest of the month, he will get us sometime.
May 1, 201213 yr Also interesting huge aerials of downtown Looking East http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/archive/files/box27-aerial-downtown_684a862dbd.jpg Looking West http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/archive/files/box27-aerial-downtown-1963_e44b5567e6.jpg Modern Day http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/downtown-cleveland-aerialjpg-2528c69afd0f7517.jpg This one is quite painful. Look at the bottom of the picture http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/archive/files/cca_cleveland_109_f7c878c3ac.jpg League Park http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4739914444_3185568528_o.jpg
May 1, 201213 yr Thanks for the great aerials, ClevelandOhio! That University Circle one is totally fascinating. It's incredible how fast UC went from primarily residential neighborhood to eds/meds ghetto.
May 1, 201213 yr Thanks for the great aerials, ClevelandOhio! That University Circle one is totally fascinating. It's incredible how fast UC went from primarily residential neighborhood to eds/meds ghetto. I wouldn't say it went from primarily residential as it's always been a mixed used neighborhood.
May 1, 201213 yr I didn't specify, but I meant east of MLK (and north of the RR tracks). UH, WRU, Case, Severance and the Art Museum have all been there for a good long time, but everything else was almost entirely residential, both north and south of Euclid. I'm simultaneously amazed how complete the transformation was be/w 1950 and 2000 and fascinated by the random hold-outs, like Hesler and East 115th. And I'm really happy it's finally swinging back the other way with the recent residential construction.
Create an account or sign in to comment