August 15, 20186 yr ^Yeah...the city was really violent back then. My dad started at the mill in '73. He had crazy stories about seeing robberies, assaults in the open.
August 15, 20186 yr Half the city has fallen into abject ruin over the past 30 years. Yes, downtown is nicer and crime is down, but most other measures are sharply negative.
August 15, 20186 yr And population loss has stabilized. And Cleveland added the most jobs of any Midwest city in June. And University Circle is growing at Silicon Valley rates. And the west side is growing strongly in just about every measure. And public schools enrollment is up. It's so hard for me to explain to young people how awful the city was in the 1970s and 80s. There was NOTHING to look forward to. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 15, 20186 yr And population loss has stabilized. And Cleveland added the most jobs of any Midwest city in June. And University Circle is growing at Silicon Valley rates. And the west side is growing strongly in just about every measure. And public schools enrollment is up. It's so hard for me to explain to young people how awful the city was in the 1970s and 80s. There was NOTHING to look forward to. I'm usually on Team Optimism with you KJP[/member] . But I have a hard time accepting that statement. Growth in what ways beyond the hospitals? Interested, not arguing.
August 15, 20186 yr It's so hard for me to explain to young people how awful the city was in the 1970s and 80s. There was NOTHING to look forward to. Young people on the east side right now? They're living in the nothing that we weren't looking forward to.
August 15, 20186 yr And population loss has stabilized. And Cleveland added the most jobs of any Midwest city in June. And University Circle is growing at Silicon Valley rates. And the west side is growing strongly in just about every measure. And public schools enrollment is up. It's so hard for me to explain to young people how awful the city was in the 1970s and 80s. There was NOTHING to look forward to. I'm usually on Team Optimism with you KJP[/member] . But I have a hard time accepting that statement. Growth in what ways beyond the hospitals? Interested, not arguing. A year or two ago, Dougal[/member] posted some BLS data from the 2010s which showed that our "Education & Health Services" sector had grown at rates comparable to the tech sectors in Austin and San Jose. Our Eds/Meds sector is concentrated at University Circle. It's so hard for me to explain to young people how awful the city was in the 1970s and 80s. There was NOTHING to look forward to. Young people on the east side right now? They're living in the nothing that we weren't looking forward to. Yep, it's bad on the East Side. And it's actually better now than it was. Structures abandoned over the last 40 years are finally being demolished in the 2010s and new housing is being built. Lest we forget that Cleveland issued 9 (yes, NINE) building permits in all of 1976, and it wasn't much more than that in the years immediately before and after. If I would have told someone in the 1970s and 1980s that Cleveland in the 2010s would be building one-fourth to one-third of all housing units built in Cuyahoga County, they would have turned me over to the local Mafia to have my body dumped in Lake Erie with all the others they dumped back then. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 16, 20186 yr RIP Queen of Soul "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 16, 20186 yr Ah yes, Cleveland in the 1980s... The only thing more gritty and seedier that I remember about Cleveland was the 1970s! It's why I'm amazed at what Cleveland is becoming nowadays, which is a livable city mostly on the west side). Unfortunately young people today get very impatient and easily disappointed about setbacks and slow progress. If they could imagine East Cleveland level of corruption, incompetence, violence, hopelessness and blight, that was Cleveland of the 1970s and into the 80s. Yes, it was that bad. I agree with this. This summer I've been at some of the newer venues around town and it feels like I'm not in Cleveland, or at least how Cleveland was and is in some parts outside of these newer developments. I'd say by and large the neighborhoods that have been declining for 40 years or more are still declining. The upside with today is that even though those areas are still declining there are quite a few neighborhoods that are on the come up where we didn't have that before. That should be viewed as a positive and no one is discounting the amount of work that still needs to be done. I think you can stop every now and then and appreciate how far this place has come especially in the last ten years.
August 16, 20186 yr Ah yes, Cleveland in the 1980s... The only thing more gritty and seedier that I remember about Cleveland was the 1970s! It's why I'm amazed at what Cleveland is becoming nowadays, which is a livable city mostly on the west side). Unfortunately young people today get very impatient and easily disappointed about setbacks and slow progress. If they could imagine East Cleveland level of corruption, incompetence, violence, hopelessness and blight, that was Cleveland of the 1970s and into the 80s. Yes, it was that bad. I agree with this. This summer I've been at some of the newer venues around town and it feels like I'm not in Cleveland, or at least how Cleveland was and is in some parts outside of these newer developments. I'd say by and large the neighborhoods that have been declining for 40 years or more are still declining. The upside with today is that even though those areas are still declining there are quite a few neighborhoods that are on the come up where we didn't have that before. That should be viewed as a positive and no one is discounting the amount of work that still needs to be done. I think you can stop every now and then and appreciate how far this place has come especially in the last ten years. Good point. Since I purchased my home about a month ago, two others have went into contract on my street before they even got listed
August 16, 20186 yr From an outsiders perspective the change is significant. It is most noticeable because I’m not around it every day seeing the gradual change. With the new bridges, new Public Square, FEB, reconfigured shoreway , and Edgewater park makeover the change is evident and in some cases areas that are unrecognizable. All this didn’t exist the last time I was in town.
August 16, 20186 yr Know what, we should be more positive.... Uptown: Then - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5088196,-81.605523,3a,75y,54.83h,91.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8iwMjS5aF3eKZ6mXpfWq8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Now- https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5088126,-81.6055697,3a,75y,54.83h,91.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjApZB7QPeZJNpEe_fgCujQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Playhouse Square: Then - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5008163,-81.6829866,3a,75y,79.76h,84.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEd95YdcLvBsjBPxgRQEdPQ!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i3328!8i1664 Now - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5008303,-81.682972,3a,75y,79.76h,84.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7Z3cbA7BcvY6juPITo-9sA!2e0!5s20170801T000000!7i13312!8i6656 W. 25th: Then - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4850877,-81.7041204,3a,75y,333.17h,95.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soxpL8ENJJc0QZ8jFZ7v5nA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Now - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4851223,-81.7041544,3a,75y,341.67h,95.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMg_zuZj9pt7Q23qNajYazw!2e0!5s20170801T000000!7i13312!8i6656 Tremont: Then - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4821272,-81.6859867,3a,75y,212.7h,98.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spn-IUygGHgG2gl9nVxZg7Q!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Now- https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4821292,-81.6859582,3a,75y,212.7h,98.36t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swRpIX2lhAJ3pKEA6stpejg!2e0!5s20170801T000000!7i13312!8i6656 Battery Park: Then: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4869352,-81.7368994,3a,75y,160.15h,86.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWPQz3GxL5Fero3NxF4GZyg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Now - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4869135,-81.736902,3a,75y,143.89h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3Rcei222jukd7xjMyTXWUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Flats East Bank Then - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4997063,-81.7045341,3a,75y,252.54h,83.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKlck-dIeYXpT3dBluA_VOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Now - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4996863,-81.7045594,3a,75y,252.54h,83.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNvXYzSlazQ59Lqc6_1dUMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 And these pics are only 7-10 years apart
August 16, 20186 yr Another Cleveland memory of the Queen of Soul "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 20, 20186 yr 1935. Civil War veteran shares his stories with some youngsters along Euclid Ave. This is especially powerful to me.
August 20, 20186 yr This came from the Planning Commission Landmark Agenda, thank god they are going to renovate the Lincoln Building and make it at least a little better... but WOW- how sad that this is what it once was...
August 20, 20186 yr Wait KJP[/member] ... 200-300 murders? Woah It peaked in 1972 with 333 murders. Read this political revisiting of the city during lunch...... http://teachingcleveland.org/cleveland-in-the-1970s-mike-roberts/ I forgot about the massive debacle that was the city's proposed jetport. While Dallas and Atlanta were taking the opportunity to build massive new airports to challenge Chicago for the reign of the nation's airport hub, Cleveland never even completed its feasibility study of the jetport due to political infighting. Around that time, a friend of mine who lives in Chicago today said his father packed up his company and left Cleveland for Chicago. He got tired of the city's inability to carry out even the most basic of tasks. Yes, three times today's murder rate with only about twice the population, and if I recall correctly not nearly the same proportion of the victims were involved in felonies themselves. With much tighter gun control than the "none" which exists in the city today. I've used this fact in debates on the topic.
August 20, 20186 yr This is an old photo but yes that is smog. Mid 1980's: 2018: The top one is between 1986 and 1989. BP is finished, no sign of Key Tower.
August 21, 20186 yr Wait KJP[/member] ... 200-300 murders? Woah I'm not sure people understand just how much urban crime has fallen over the past few decades (and how absurd Trump's "tough on crime" campaign was, in that context). It's fallen a lot less in Cleveland than in NYC, but it's still fallen quite a bit (even when adjusting for population loss). NYC had Guiliani whose entire appeal was anti-crime, and the mafia is still more or less intact there. The current gang feuds that are contributing so much to our (and Chicago's) murder rate wouldn't happen in NYC, they would get their heads knocked together. As for guys like the one who shot a car (hitting a four year old) because his mom beeped at him while he was blocking a street conducting a drug deal, they'd be in the Lake. The murder rate is much lower than it was, and much more concentrated around illicit activities.
August 21, 20186 yr These old pictures always break my heart. The 3200-3500 block of Lorain Ave before half the buildings were torn down for parking lots. Nice find, @KarlBrunjes. Sorry the picture is so big. I'll reduce it when I get home Fixed "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 22, 20186 yr I am somewhat of a Motorola fan boy, mostly with cell phones going back and today. So this sign in the pic above makes me happy.
August 22, 20186 yr Look at the before and after of Slavic Village's Broadway Ave (scroll the images): http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/breaking-ground/MorganaBluff082118.aspx
August 22, 20186 yr Looking back at these old photos, it feels like Cleveland was on track to become a mini chicago of sorts....damn urban renewal and freeways, and economic collpase!
August 22, 20186 yr Looking back at these old photos, it feels like Cleveland was on track to become a mini chicago of sorts....damn urban renewal and freeways, and economic collpase! Those things happened everywhere. Cleveland needs to do a better job preserving its historical structures. We also need to do a better job of rebuilding in a recognizably urban fashion.
August 23, 20186 yr Ohio City Lorain Ave1940s Detroit and 25th - 1909 Anyone know what church/taller building is that in the far off distance in the second photo?
August 23, 20186 yr Wow I never knew all this was lost... so sad. I guess we should really treasure the buildings we’ve managed to hold onto.
August 23, 20186 yr According to Sanborn Maps, there was an Odd Fellows Building/Masonic Hall at the SW corner of Church Street and Pearl St (W.25th). So I looked it up and, sure enough, that's what it was..... https://plainpress.wordpress.com/2017/01/11/25th-street-lofts-rehabilitation-adds-83-apartments-and-commercial-space-on-church-avenue-between-w-25th-and-w-28th/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 23, 20186 yr The I.O.O.F building is still there. The upper floors were lost due to tornado damage.
August 23, 20186 yr Wow, I had no idea!! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 24, 20186 yr https://www.amazon.com/Why-Old-Places-Matter-Association/dp/1538117681/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535125859&sr=8-1&keywords=why+old+places+matter I have a buddy who was able to get it before its release and says its amazing. I have mine pre-ordered.
August 29, 20186 yr There is the original Union train station in the bottom Center of the photo above.
August 29, 20186 yr By 1936, only the Pennsylvania RR was serving it with a mere 20ish trains a day while 90+ were operating out of Cleveland Union Terminal underneath its Terminal Tower. It would be another 12 years before the 14 daily trains of the Erie RR would relocate to CUT from the cramped Erie Station (later Diamond Jim's, then Shorty's Diner) below Superior Viaduct. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 29, 20186 yr Over a 24 hour period that’s an average hourly departure more frequent than the red line at peak hours.
August 29, 20186 yr And with hundreds of people aboard each train. Some of them crappy, outdated, soot-caked trains. Others sumptuous, first-class limiteds traveling at some of the fastest train speeds on earth, routinely cruising at 80-100 mph in the 1930s. One of the most advanced was this train, The Mercury, begun in the same year as the above photo, 1936. This art-deco streamliner zipped between Cleveland and Detroit at 90 mph, covering the 165 rail-miles in less than three hours (about as fast as you can drive it today -- 82 years later). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 1, 20186 yr @Cleveland_PL #TBT Greetings from Cleveland! This 1962 color postcard offers a rare on-the-ground view of Euclid Avenue looking east from Public Square. At the time of this photo, Euclid Avenue had one of the highest concentrations of foreign and domestic commerce in the country. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20186 yr Left: The legendary Theatrical Restaurant on Short Vincent with proprietor, Morris “Mushy” Wexler, standing in front in 1963. Right: The building as it is now, repurposed as a parking garage, naturally. Unseen: Mushy Wexler rolling in his grave. #DowntownCleveland #parking https://t.co/wfgcRBDYRb "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20186 yr Image of Lighthouse in Cleveland at Main and Water (now West 9th) in late 1800s. Photo by WRHS. The front steps up from the sidewalk are still there, underneath the Shoreway bridge. Note the railings along the sidewalk, necessary for walking in the cold gales off Lake Erie. https://t.co/qq9gTN8Lwf You probably never noticed the steps before. Here they are, at left, looking north on West 9th.... And here, during a recent tour posted on Twitter at: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 20186 yr ^While it doesn't necessarily fit into the current downtown fabric nor promote density, it would be super cool to have that still standing. Lighthouses are just all around coolness
September 15, 20186 yr Very very cool: https://m.facebook.com/CleStartsHere/photos/a.150579838300205/2106293849395451/?type=3&source=48
September 15, 20186 yr A view of tomorrow's Cleveland, in 1925..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 20186 yr No. The north end was mostly Northern Ohio Lumber & Timber Co., the central/western part of the peninsula was Republic Steel Corp Bolt and Nut Division, while the east side was the Erie Railroad freight house. This photo is from sometime between 1930-1948.... You can see in this 1952 USGS aerial and 1940s topo map that the steel mill complex pretty well dominated most of Scranton Peninsula.... From the bottom of that map, looking north to the top, offered this view in about 1910. I can't see Carter Road, however. This view would be from roughly where Grove Court Condos are today.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 20186 yr Oh happy joy joy.... Here You Are - #Cleveland More Downtown Parking. Source: @Cleveland_PL in Spring, 1970 Clevelander. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 20186 yr Ugh. I truly despise that garage... a huge brick box. This is interesting though, I thought it was built along with the tower. Too bad Phoenix coffee is the ONLY retail tenant in the whole place.
September 17, 20186 yr ^I hate the St. John's garage even more but my favorites to bomb would be the two garages between the East Ohio Building and the Diamond Building (or what ever it is call now).
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