But the 70s are historic...the 1870s!

 

 

Just 57 years later...

 

 

 

It looks like the Ameritrust Building in front of Terminal Tower. But where's the National City Bank building? This photo was taken about 1981-82 because the Medical Mutual (One Cleveland Center) building is under construction in the middle-right.

Edited December 30, 20186 yr by KJP

 

17 hours ago, KJP said:

It looks like the Ameritrust Building in front of Terminal Tower. But where's the National City Bank building? This photo was taken about 1981-82 because the Medical Mutual (One Cleveland Center) building is under construction in the middle-right.

 

The Voinovich era construction boom downtown makes it easy to date pictures from that era.  OneCC early on,  Sohio (200 Public Square) mid decade, Society (Key) at the end.

22 hours ago, Terdolph said:

What is that tall building behind the Terminal Tower?

I wonder if that's the Rockefeller Building, and the camera height and angle are playing tricks with its apparent height?

1 hour ago, StapHanger said:

I wonder if that's the Rockefeller Building, and the camera height and angle are playing tricks with its apparent height?

 

It's the Ameritrust Tower/The 9

11 minutes ago, TPH2 said:

 

It's the Ameritrust Tower/The 9

 

Does that program flip out (literally) at 800 feet or so?

That makes a lot more sense! The way the lit portion of the old Ameritrust building lined up with the top of the Terminal Tower messed up my perception of foreground/background.  

On 12/30/2018 at 9:09 AM, Terdolph said:

What is that tall building behind the Terminal Tower?

I would also argue that it's the Cleveland Trust tower in front not behind of Terminal Tower. I would further contend that the tower under construction that @KJP referred to is the Justice Center which would explain why National City Center is missing. I'm guessing the photo was taken around Dec 1976 not the 80's.

I think that you are right. I figured the National City Bank building was too short to be seen but that doesn't make sense considering it's bigger than 925 Euclid.

https://twitter.com/SkrticX/status/1080261036610109441?s=19

 

This is from sometime between 1949 (new Columbus Road lift bridge) and 1954 (construction hasn't started on the Red Line). The tracks through Ohio City are for Cleveland Union Terminal trains. Also note how W24/Gehring behind West Side Market served as a W25 bypass....

 

 

My god....it's full of density.....

4 hours ago, sizzlinbeef said:

My god....it's full of density.....

 

Yeah.  1949.  The war was over and close to everyone was home, and the postwar sprawl was still under development.

 

Especially away from the coasts, density is something Americans endure, and seek to alleviate.  We don't crave it.

You don't crave. But everyone loves free stuff. So the era of Laissez-Faire, private sector-, market-driven pattern of dense urban development led by the transportation/real estate/utility consortia was over by the 1930s. After WWII, the New Deal model of socialized transportation and real estate was cranking up to replace the prior corporate domination and to externalize the costs of driving and sprawl in order to foster the City of Tomorrow as envisioned by the likes of Norman Bel Geddes and fueled by the public-private partnership of General Motors, Shell Oil and others on the private side and a pact of county and state highway commissioners including Robert Moses, Albert Porter, and more on the public side.

It sure seemed easier to get to Tremont in those days.

I mean... is this really too oppressively dense for people? They may not be suburban-sized lots but most of Cleveland's homes actually sit on fairly roomy lots for being "urban core". Most lots are probably comparable to, if not larger than, lots in Southern California, aka the poster child for postwar suburban sprawl. Even Lakewood, the densest city in the state, has very generously-sized yards. It's not like walking around midtown Manhattan or something. And the lots in Euclid and the other immediately-after-WWII suburbs are only slightly larger lots than what you'd find in Lakewood, anyway. 

 

 

On 1/11/2019 at 4:35 PM, KJP said:

 

Sometime after 1918 because the hotel looks complete.

Yup. Aerial photos weren't that common then so my guess is that this photo was for a special occasion. Considering where the camera is pointed, the special occasion was taking a picture of the area where the Cleveland Union Terminal complex would be built. So this is probably after 1922 when the Van Sweringens got the green light to proceed with their development. BTW, that's a pretty high quality aerial photo for the early 1920s.

Look at the lack of density around the Osborne Building when it was built....

 

 

Edited January 13, 20196 yr by mrnyc

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/dec/22/boddie-recording-co-ohio-soul-gospel

 

 

Edited January 13, 20196 yr by mrnyc

b&o roundhouse

 

I remember my dad driving us down this bridge ramp in the 1970s and I also remember it was in lousy condition. The cost of rebuilding it combined with a lack of funding for cities were its deathknell....

 

Without a doubt the most amazing photo of the Cleveland Union Terminal Group construction....

 

Excellent find- what a HUGE swath of Downtown.  During those times with a growing city and regional population, we wouldn't have seen the Parking Lot District remain in its current state for as long as it has.  

Edited January 14, 20196 yr by Oldmanladyluck

^^ Is that West 3rd Running through the site to the bridge over the river?

8 minutes ago, freefourur said:

^^ Is that West 3rd Running through the site to the bridge over the river?

 

Yes (although it was called Seneca St. at the time).  It bent to the left after the first bridge to continue over the second bridge (a swing bridge) onto what is now West 3rd in the flats.

Edited January 14, 20196 yr by jam40jeff

Has anyone seen this video?  Fantastic shots, including homes on Euclid Ave across from Thwing, where UH now stands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=452&v=BzHKJ5zOm30

^to that Union Terminal overhead view photo, thank god the depression didn't hit in the middle of that scorched earth demolition plan. We might still have a hole the size of 10 city blocks.

As much as I love the Terminal Tower complex, it did destroy a whole section of downtown.  It removed many streets that would've made the area more small scale walkable.  This and the mall  were in a way the urban renewal projects of their time. 

46 minutes ago, w28th said:

^to that Union Terminal overhead view photo, thank god the depression didn't hit in the middle of that scorched earth demolition plan. We might still have a hole the size of 10 city blocks.

 

There are still some unfilled holes from that project that was formally opened and dedicated in June 1930. Higbee's opened in 1931 and the U.S. Post Office in 1934. But some were unfilled for decades: Sheraton-Hotel Cleveland Ballroom (1958); Frank J. Lausche State Office Building (1979); Skylight Office Tower + Ritz Carlton Hotel (1991). The entire area above the old CUT coach yards between Huron and Canal Roads, as well as over the tracks below Ontario (including the famous missing tooth/brick wall where various large banners were hung), are all "air-rights" development sites left over from the CUT Group that have yet to be developed nine decades later.

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

As much as I love the Terminal Tower complex, it did destroy a whole section of downtown.  It removed many streets that would've made the area more small scale walkable.  This and the mall  were in a way the urban renewal projects of their time. 

I tend to agree on this, as much as the Terminal Tower is a giant in the idea of what Cleveland is. The pedestrian experience for Prospect and Superior west of the hotel, and the entirety of Huron is an utter disaster. The old post office is possibly a worse offender than the Justice Center. If buildings fronted the north side of Superior west of the hotel and an expansion of the hotel occurred at the current pit that could really change things though.

2 minutes ago, w28th said:

I tend to agree on this, as much as the Terminal Tower is a giant in the idea of what Cleveland is. The pedestrian experience for Prospect and Superior west of the hotel, and the entirety of Huron is an utter disaster. The old post office is possibly a worse offender than the Justice Center. If buildings fronted the north side of Superior west of the hotel and an expansion of the hotel occurred at the current pit that could really change things though.

 

All very true. However, I suspect there would be lots of surface parking lots in that area today if it hadn't been all demolished for CUT.

The primary goal of the Cleveland Union Terminal Group development was to put a massive steam railroad/electric interurban railway terminal on Public Square, then develop the air rights over it. Air rights was an innovative concept back then, as was consolidating numerous small railroad depots, each serving 5-50 trains a day into a "union" or united station accommodating 100 to 200 trains a day. CUT would be part of an even bolder step by getting the electric interurban railways from Lorain, Elyria, Medina, Akron, Canton, Warren, Chardon, Painesville, etc. off the congested city streets and their streetcar tracks and onto dedicated, high-speed rights of way (became today's Rapid transit system) and unite them all in an interurban, or "traction" station next to the new railroad station on Public Square. Once the tracks were built (with extra space for expansion), they would be topped with new roadways and the air rights for current and future buildings, including the second tallest in the USA -- Terminal Tower.

 

Consider how much space would be needed for a 30-track train/transit station right in the heart of the downtown central business district -- then you can have an appreciation of the extent of demolition (2,000+ buildings razed, including for the rights of way to Linndale and Collinwood) and excavation (more material excavated than for the Panama Canal) that was required. It cost $179 million in 1930. It would cost $2.6 billion today. Had it been built just 10 years earlier, it would have been completed and leveraged more downtown development nearby. We might still have electric railways running to Akron and Canton, and perhaps to Lorain or Painesville because they would have been able to run at 60-80 mph all the way into a denser downtown that might have had at least one subway built through it. Location isn't everything in real estate. Timing is just as important......

 

 

 

Speaking of buildings razed for parking lots, this is the northwest corner of Superior Avenue and West 3rd Street in January 1967. It is being prepared for demolition. I can't find a name of this nondescript building at the corner or even the one behind it. But Sanborn maps from the late 1800s show the building as having a bank right at the NW corner of Superior & Seneca (W3) with a drug store in the ground-floor to the left of the corner space. It appears to have caught fire shortly before this photo. The six-story building behind it looks like it was a furniture store/manufacturer.

Edited January 15, 20196 yr by KJP

^ those would both be great residential conversions right now. 

Added some CUT graphics, above.

 

I remember my father taking my sister and me to the Sears store on Carnegie in the late 1970s. I seem to recall it was a clearance sale prior to closing. There were a lot of people there and it had an open atrium in the middle of the store. Anyway here's the store before the east side was emptied out (it's from this article https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/01/98735b3b543387/sears-bankruptcy-rekindles-memories-of-store-that-shaped-american-culture-vintage-photos.html)....

 

Cleveland Public Library/Plain Dealer. Pictured Sears, 8501 Carnegie, 1941.

Carnegie looks like it was a livable street at that point.

Look at the soot on those buildings!

 

 

here is another photo of the Terminal Tower complex construction:

 

 

This one is going to yield some tears.....