December 10, 200915 yr Oh god a younger MTS. As an intern even. Imagine that. I bet they didn't know what hit them... My boss was a total B*tch, but knew everything and everyone in PR/Communications in Cleveland, Ohio and the Midwest. Although I like her body of knowledge, I say right then and there, I would never be a manager like her. I was a finance major with a art history minor. I only got into PR because my best friend was into it. Luckily SOHIO was so big, I got to learn about four different divisions in three summers. When I was hired, I was hired onto the Cleveland Oil Division. I worked my way from the bottom. Hard work pays off.
December 10, 200915 yr Oh god a younger MTS. As an intern even. Imagine that. I bet they didn't know what hit them... My boss was a total B*tch, but knew everything and everyone in PR/Communications in Cleveland, Ohio and the Midwest. Although I like her body of knowledge, I say right then and there, I would never be a manager like her. I was a finance major with a art history minor. I only got into PR because my best friend was into it. Luckily SOHIO was so big, I got to learn about four different divisions in three summers. When I was hired, I was hired onto the Cleveland Oil Division. I worked my way from the bottom. Hard work pays off. Nice major/minor.
December 10, 200915 yr Oh god a younger MTS. As an intern even. Imagine that. I bet they didn't know what hit them... My boss was a total B*tch, but knew everything and everyone in PR/Communications in Cleveland, Ohio and the Midwest. Although I like her body of knowledge, I say right then and there, I would never be a manager like her. I was a finance major with a art history minor. I only got into PR because my best friend was into it. Luckily SOHIO was so big, I got to learn about four different divisions in three summers. When I was hired, I was hired onto the Cleveland Oil Division. I worked my way from the bottom. Hard work pays off. Nice major/minor. To think I wanted to be an economist. :wtf:
December 10, 200915 yr Oh god a younger MTS. As an intern even. Imagine that. I bet they didn't know what hit them... My boss was a total B*tch, but knew everything and everyone in PR/Communications in Cleveland, Ohio and the Midwest. Although I like her body of knowledge, I say right then and there, I would never be a manager like her. I was a finance major with a art history minor. I only got into PR because my best friend was into it. Luckily SOHIO was so big, I got to learn about four different divisions in three summers. When I was hired, I was hired onto the Cleveland Oil Division. I worked my way from the bottom. Hard work pays off. And I think - while school can play a role, particularly depending on industry or desired geographic location - hard work is the biggest factor.
December 10, 200915 yr And I think - while school can play a role, particularly depending on industry or desired geographic location - hard work is the biggest factor. Geography + industry + hard work. All of it matters. A ton of Michigan grads are struggling to get jobs in that state because they're in Michigan. Luck does play a part too. I wouldn't count on luck, but being at the right place at the right time is part of it.
December 10, 200915 yr And I think - while school can play a role, particularly depending on industry or desired geographic location - hard work is the biggest factor. Geography + industry + hard work. All of it matters. A ton of Michigan grads are struggling to get jobs in that state because they're in Michigan. Luck does play a part too. I wouldn't count on luck, but being at the right place at the right time is part of it. AMEN to that. I've gotten two jobs on either luck or being at the right place at the right time.
December 10, 200915 yr This should be inspire all you whippersnappers! At 90, Cleveland State University student still has more to learn By Janet Okoben December 10, 2009, 3:00PM CLEVELAND, Ohio — Even during the lowest depths of the Great Depression, when her father was without work for three years and her family lost their home in Cleveland's Buckeye neighborhood to foreclosure, Jean Elsner's parents always said "when" not "if" in describing her college plans. Elsner, who turned 90 on Dec. 4, graduated from Cleveland's John Adams High and went on to earn a bachelor's degree, magna cum laude, from Ohio University in 1941, buoyed by the emphasis her parents placed on education. more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/12/at_90_cleveland_state_universi.html
December 10, 200915 yr And I think - while school can play a role, particularly depending on industry or desired geographic location - hard work is the biggest factor. Geography + industry + hard work. All of it matters. A ton of Michigan grads are struggling to get jobs in that state because they're in Michigan. Luck does play a part too. I wouldn't count on luck, but being at the right place at the right time is part of it. Overall, I'd rank social skills right at the top, above hard work, talent, looks, even geography and luck. Social skills make or break many candidates more than anything else. To quote something I wrote while drunk: There are lots of hyper-talented, reliable, extremely hard working people who have never been convicted of a felony who can't find jobs because their social skills are lacking. Of course you would, but that isn't the way it works in the real world. You may know a lot of people and be a great networker/social butterfly but have you a proved that you can execute?
December 10, 200915 yr ^I'm talking in the sense of getting a job, not keeping a job (I'm talking networking). Social skills can help get your the toes in the door. I've seen plenty of amateurs land jobs because of "who they know" while pros go starving. Lack of hard work and aptitude for the trade gets you kicked out of the door. Though yeah, in this economy, employers are more risk adverse than ever. You need it all. You've got to have the whole package coming out of college- lots of work experience, social skills, geographic location, even looks/fashion sense, etc. Employers have the pick of the litter. So am I. that being said, any HR recruiter and/or hiring manager will see thru the BS. Coming out of college no company expects you to have extenseive work experience, this is why internships and mentoring programs help.
December 11, 200915 yr The problem is departments and entire companies can be horrible. So you get a great resume-building job but then after a few weeks figure out that your boss is dating a skinhead and does coke all day every day (yes, that happened to me). You need to be in a situation where senior management recognizes your skills and potential. Depending on the character of your department and even just the physical layout of the business it can be really tough to get noticed. In a typical situation whoever your boss is is working hard to make you look bad, passing along erroneous information to senior management to keep you down, etc. They'll detect that you're trying to go above them and plot some sort of situation that trips you up on some technicality. Meanwhile certain people are untouchable, despite years of crap. I knew a guy who pulled crap day after day (did crossword puzzles for several hours every day, kicked over somebody's cubicle trash can every day while walking back from the bathroom, etc.) and was finally fired only when he started prank calling the owner from a prepaid cell phone, and they only managed to fire him when his boss was on vacation. I knew another guy in receiving who was marking all kinds of stuff not received and selling it on ebay. This was back around 99-00, the early days of ebay, and the owners didn't even know what the internet was so they had no idea this was going on for years. He also concocted a scheme that fudged internal accounting and was skimming $500+ per week from that on top of the ebay action. He also showed up to work as late as noon on a regular basis because he was perusing city record shops for rare records which he also sold on ebay. By hitting the shops every day, he caught all the good stuff and often resold $1 records for $100+, but maintained his job at the place because his skim was so good. So to review this guy was making way over $1,000/wk between his skim, ebay scam, and legit record selling ebay gig, in addition to getting paid $20/hr when he decided to show up to work. The owners loved that guy but were continuously suspicious of me after finding out I wasn't Jewish (I never claimed to be jewish, they inferred it through my name alone).
December 11, 200915 yr You just contradicted yourself: MTS: Coming out of college no company expects you to have extenseive work experience, this is why internships and mentoring programs help. MTS: You may know a lot of people and be a great networker/social butterfly but have you a proved that you can execute? How can you prove you have executed without the real world work experience? Internships are not the same as real jobs. That's why our society has it backwards. Work first, do internships first, then go to college. You'd be ready for it, know what to major in, and get out faster. Plenty of people on this very board have said that in regards to grad school, but with the cost of undergrad, it might make sense there too. No dear I haven't. and I knew your "know it all" ass would have a comment. I'm not even going to go there. when you starting hiring people, talk to me. Better yet...get a job first. Tonight is not the night to play with me.
December 11, 200915 yr I just remembered that old Tony graduated from Harvard in the late 1950's. He wore western ranch clothing every day (string ties, boots) and demanded that we chew out customers who asked too many questions or attempted to return anything for any reason. About the third week I was there he handed me the phone and told me to "give 'em hell". I had no idea who was on the other line and actually now that I think of it that was the end of my honeymoon because I didn't go ape on whoever it was on the other end. He did hire one guy just because he went to Harvard, and he was a nice enough guy, but very shy and had no idea what he wanted to do with his life. Back on topic...a former OU drinking buddy of mine went to MIT's Sloan School of Business for his MBA. He got in in part because his dad went to Harvard (not sure why that legacy helped at MIT but that's the story at least). That 2-year MBA program consisted of one thing and one thing only: networking. For two years they traveled the globe meeting with Sloan alums. They went literally everywhere in the US and abroad. They went on private yachts in the Mediterranean, rode camels to the foot of the Great Sphinx, snorkeled the Great Barrier Reef. So the guy has a list of contacts a mile long and immediately upon graduation became -- you guessed it -- a consultant, and bought a townhouse in Beacon Hill whereupon his wife quit her job with an insurance company and started shopping full-time. He did work at the 5/3 headquarters in downtown Cincinnati for two years before entering the MBA program, so he did have some real business experience, although it was never clear what he actually did there, nor is it ever with these kinds of people.
December 12, 200915 yr As I actually work with students every day in a Higher Education Setting, I have some insights.. The entitlement of college students has been going on FOR YEARS. I started in 2000, and the general thought of College students, even at a State School (Akron) was that this diploma was a magic ticket to a $50,000+ job outside of College. Fortunately, as I saw people who had recently graduated and were floundering, I knew there was a better way. So, I put my resume on a steady diet of work, student activities, Leadership Summits, and more work. Many of the people I went to school with and associated with did the same thing. I can remember going to class in my SU uniforms, my Program Board Shirts, Newspaper or yearbook in hand, and getting snickers from some people- because this was deemed "dorky". Who wants to put in extra hours when there could be partying and drinking?! Flash forward to now...me and nearly all of my friends, (the editors in chief, interns, program board presidents, sorority/Fraternity presidents, and SU managers) all have respectable-nice paying jobs either in our fields, or closely related. Those same ones that were laughing? Many of them are working banal jobs that they HATE and complaining about how worthless college was and how it was supposed to get them these great jobs... Sadly, even in a two-year setting, I still see it among students. When I mention things like building your resume with volunteer service, interning, and building a portfolio (which I'm teaching a seminar on this later in the spring!) I get eye-rolling and sneers. Many students see Degrees as a magic ticket- but it simply doesnt work that way.
December 12, 200915 yr As I actually work with students every day in a Higher Education Setting, I have some insights.. The entitlement of college students has been going on FOR YEARS. I started in 2000, and the general thought of College students, even at a State School (Akron) was that this diploma was a magic ticket to a $50,000+ job outside of College. Fortunately, as I saw people who had recently graduated and were floundering, I knew there was a better way. So, I put my resume on a steady diet of work, student activities, Leadership Summits, and more work. Many of the people I went to school with and associated with did the same thing. I can remember going to class in my SU uniforms, my Program Board Shirts, Newspaper or yearbook in hand, and getting snickers from some people- because this was deemed "dorky". Who wants to put in extra hours when there could be partying and drinking?! Flash forward to now...me and nearly all of my friends, (the editors in chief, interns, program board presidents, sorority/Fraternity presidents, and SU managers) all have respectable-nice paying jobs either in our fields, or closely related. Those same ones that were laughing? Many of them are working banal jobs that they HATE and complaining about how worthless college was and how it was supposed to get them these great jobs... Sadly, even in a two-year setting, I still see it among students. When I mention things like building your resume with volunteer service, interning, and building a portfolio (which I'm teaching a seminar on this later in the spring!) I get eye-rolling and sneers. Many students see Degrees as a magic ticket- but it simply doesnt work that way. Preach on girl, preach on!
December 12, 200915 yr Does C-Dawg always pimp Michigan, or is it unique to this thread? Anyway, the majority of Michigan grads I've met are great at over-analyzing, telling everyone how intelligent they are, how wealthy their school is, and at disassociating themselves from Detroit. "Many" of them (Michigan grads) are terrible at making hard decisions, working ethically, and executing. When projects get tough and deadlines loom, I'll take an OSU or PSU grad any day over a Michigan grad, when it comes to Big 10 schools (don't know enough about NW grads). Heck, I would take an Ohio U. grad over a Michigan grad when it's time to roll up the sleeves.
December 14, 200915 yr As Does C-Dawg always pimp Michigan, or is it unique to this thread? Anyway, the majority of Michigan grads I've met are great at over-analyzing, telling everyone how intelligent they are, how wealthy their school is, and at disassociating themselves from Detroit. "Many" of them (Michigan grads) are terrible at making hard decisions, working ethically, and executing. When projects get tough and deadlines loom, I'll take an OSU or PSU grad any day over a Michigan grad, when it comes to Big 10 schools (don't know enough about NW grads). Heck, I would take an Ohio U. grad over a Michigan grad when it's time to roll up the sleeves. As an OU grad I am flattered...
January 12, 201015 yr Ann Arbor has more and bigger parking garages than Athens. It also has a big-ass hospital so if you're drinking and fall off a balcony you ride for cheap in an ambulance instead of that pesky $10,000 helicopter ride to Columbus. Every big university has some little sidekick. Cornell has Ithaca College. OSU has Franklin. Michigan has Eastern Michigan. OU has Hocking Tech. Okay, yeah I know now it's Hocking College but it's always fun to kick a community college when it's down.
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