Hi,

 

We'll be moving from Pittsburgh to Cleveland this summer. I'll be working at University Health Systems near Case Western and we're looking for a family oriented, safe community within 10-15 minute drive of work.

 

We've been there a few times and have looked in Shaker, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, Lyndhurst, Mayfield & Solon. But we're drawn to the charm and neighborhood feel of Shaker.

 

From searching the threads here seems like the areas to avoid would be Ludlow, Moreland & Boulevard. Outside of these areas does it really make a difference as far as crime rates which area you are in?

 

The two areas that most of the houses we like seem to be in are Fernway and Mercer. Is there much of a difference in crime between these two?

 

And would you consider one better than the other for starting a family?

 

In Fernway most of the houses we looked at are right around Fernway Elementary...so any comments on this area would be appreciated.

 

And in Mercer the houses were close to the Beachwood border.

 

Just wanted to get a feel for which neighborhoods in Shaker we should focus on.

 

Also...can anyone comment on estimated travel time at rush hour between Case -> Shaker at rush hour (7-9am & 4-6pm)?

And also rush hour time travel to get to Pepper Pike, Beachwood or Mayfield?

Proximity to work is very important to us as well so just wanted to get an idea of how much closer we would be in Shaker so we can do a proper comparison of the areas.

 

thanks

*waits for MTS to stop hyperventilating with excitement and post*

I cannot imagine crime is much of an issue in either Fernway or Mercer.  Fernway is a very popular area with young families.  A good mix of housing choices and architecture (of course all the homes are very old so you have to be prepared to keep on top of things...most people do).  Almost every street has an elaborate block party in the summer time (all day affairs...some are very creative).  Walking the neighborhood seems to be very popular and it is bascially in the center of Shaker so close to parks and commercial areas.  The rapid to downtown is a 5-10 walk from most houses.  Drive to University Circle about 10 minutes.  Drive to Mayfield 15-20.  Beachwood and Pepper Pike 10-15.

 

Mercer is probably an older crowd but still desirable.  I would go with Fernway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I will venture a guess that MTS will not recommend "Shaker Heights".... but rather a certain neighborhood in Cleveland that happens to be in the SH school district. ;)

 

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with any area actually within Shaker Heights.  There may be a few areas that fall within the school district that you may want to avoid, but anything within the municipal boundaries is fine.  However, the areas north of Chagrin Blvd are preferrable IMHO if cost is not too much of an issue.  Anywhere south of that you may have to worry about the neighborhoods which border those areas.

villain189, I have been looking in Shaker as well. 

Your mostly right about the areas.  Generally the parts bordering Cleveland are going to have the most crime, since this part of Cleveland generally isn't the best part, but don't automatically rule out Boulevard most of it is very nice, maybe east of Van Aken (check out around Boulevard School/Drexmore area) then you get the bonus of being near Shaker Square.

 

Most of the Fernway area is older with more Character then the Mercer area, with the exception of some north of Shaker (Much of Mercer south of Shaker is more 50's styles. 

 

Naturally the more east you are the farther to University Circle, but it is all pretty nicely accessible and a pleasant drive.  Less so from Beechwood then Pepper pike and Mayfield

I would deifnitely say you can't go wrong with either neighborhood.  Both are nice and convenient (close to rapid, stores, schools, libraries, etc.).  I personally much prefer the houses and feel of Fernway, and it will be 5 minutes less on the commute.  When I was a student at Case, I worked for a year at Chagrin and Lee and often times had to go from Case to work at around 5 pm.  It normally took me 10 minutes to get there in rush hour traffic (which really isn't that bad in this area).  Travelling to Case is easily 2 minutes shorter thanks to the MLK/Ambleside/Murray Hill shortcut, which is only one way northbound, so it won't help you going back home, but is a great morning route to avoid a lot of traffic and save time going to Case in the morning.

 

The commute to the Mercer neighborhood would be around 15 minutes.  To Beachwood it would be 20-25 minutes, depending on what part of Beachwood, and Pepper Pike, Lyndhurst, and Mayfield would all be 25-30 minutes (or more, depending on traffic).

 

As far as crime goes, I would say all of the neighborhoods you mentioned are similar enough that you wouldn't notice any difference in safety.

Welcome Villain!  To echo the other opinions here, crime is pretty much a non-issue in both Fernway and Mercer, so I wouldn't make dictate your choice.  I'd think more about the architecture and exact location, including proximity to retail, public transit, schools, jobs and other places you'll be traveling to often.  Personally, I'd prefer Fernway based on the pre-war housing stock and easy walkability (which is a lot spottier the further east you go).  Good luck with your choice and move!

There is some website that grades the "walkability" of a neighborhood.  Good tool to use when making a final decision.  Just punch in the address and it will grade the "walkability" based on distance to grocery, other retail, etc.

Fernway gets a 48, Mercer gets a 25, and Pepper Pike gets a 9.  None of them are super dense, completely walkable neighborhoods, but there is obviously many more things closer to Fernway (and it is much more walkable) than any of the other places mentioned.

Fernway gets a 48, Mercer gets a 25, and Pepper Pike gets a 9. None of them are super dense, completely walkable neighborhoods, but there is obviously many more things closer to Fernway (and it is much more walkable) than any of the other places mentioned.

 

The score will vary depending on the exact address... but not much.

*waits for MTS to stop hyperventilating with excitement and post*

 

Child boo!

 

And I will venture a guess that MTS will not recommend "Shaker Heights".... but rather a certain neighborhood in Cleveland that happens to be in the SH school district. ;)

 

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with any area actually within Shaker Heights.  There may be a few areas that fall within the school district that you may want to avoid, but anything within the municipal boundaries is fine.  However, the areas north of Chagrin Blvd are preferrable IMHO if cost is not too much of an issue.  Anywhere south of that you may have to worry about the neighborhoods which border those areas.

Am I that transparent?

 

 

Hi,

 

We'll be moving from Pittsburgh to Cleveland this summer. I'll be working at University Health Systems near Case Western and we're looking for a family oriented, safe community within 10-15 minute drive of work.

 

We've been there a few times and have looked in Shaker, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, Lyndhurst, Mayfield & Solon. But we're drawn to the charm and neighborhood feel of Shaker.

 

From searching the threads here seems like the areas to avoid would be Ludlow, Moreland & Boulevard. Outside of these areas does it really make a difference as far as crime rates which area you are in?

 

The two areas that most of the houses we like seem to be in are Fernway and Mercer. Is there much of a difference in crime between these two?

 

And would you consider one better than the other for starting a family?

 

In Fernway most of the houses we looked at are right around Fernway Elementary...so any comments on this area would be appreciated.

 

And in Mercer the houses were close to the Beachwood border.

 

Just wanted to get a feel for which neighborhoods in Shaker we should focus on.

 

Also...can anyone comment on estimated travel time at rush hour between Case -> Shaker at rush hour (7-9am & 4-6pm)?

And also rush hour time travel to get to Pepper Pike, Beachwood or Mayfield?

Proximity to work is very important to us as well so just wanted to get an idea of how much closer we would be in Shaker so we can do a proper comparison of the areas.

 

thanks

 

Have you looked in Cleveland Heights?  Lots of nice homes West of Lee Road and South of Mayfield could be a good fit.

 

I grew up in the Malvern neighborhood, which is very nice.  That is if, you're the "I want to live in a single family home and have a lawn" type.  Mercer (anything east or Warrensville) is very 60's and does not have the charm or appeal of prewar shaker.  IIRC, the Mercer area is the largest area of Shaker without historical designation.

 

I'm interested in knowing who suggested you stay away from Boulevard, Moreland and Ludlow?  Please share, as the person(s) who made that suggestion probably dont live in either of the areas.

 

I currently live in the Boulevard encatchment zone, which is Fairhill (on the north) to S. Woodland (south).    Ludlow is Southington (on the east) to 130 Street (on the west).  There are a few streets that blur.  But those are the general zones.  Both are very nice neighborhoods.  The Ludlow neighborhood is more racial diverse than boulevard.  However, both Boulevard and Ludlow schools are equally diverse.  Four of my nephews and nieces attended Boulevard.  My youngest nephew is currently enrolled there.

 

Mercer doesnt have as much crime because it purely residential, where as Boulevard and Ludlow surround the Shaker Square which is very nice, but with a commercial strip comes crime.  Nothing major.  Last year we did have an incident, however, that was out of character of the neighborhood and the community in general immediately came together to show that the neighborhood was safe.  Shaker Square & Larchmere are great walkable area's.  If you live in Fernway, you'll need to drive everywhere.

 

Fernway is ok, but be aware lots of the homes there are two family homes and there are a lot of renters.

I currently live in the Boulevard encatchment zone, which is Fairhill (on the north) to S. Woodland (south).    Ludlow is Southington (on the east) to 130 Street (on the west).  There are a few streets that blur.  But those are the general zones.  Both are very nice neighborhoods.  The Ludlow neighborhood is more racial diverse than boulevard.  However, both Boulevard and Ludlow schools are equally diverse.  Four of my nephews and nieces attended Boulevard.  My youngest nephew is currently enrolled there.

 

Do you mean Onaway? I know you know that Ludlow's been closed for a long time.  Don't confuse Villain!

 

Fernway is ok, but be aware lots of the homes there are two family homes and there are a lot of renters.

 

Are you referring to the Winslow Rd stuff?  I didn't think there were many or even any two-family homes in Fernway north of Van Aiken.  Fernway north of Van Aiken is beautiful, IMHO; kind of like Malvern but more affordable.

 

I currently live in the Boulevard encatchment zone, which is Fairhill (on the north) to S. Woodland (south).    Ludlow is Southington (on the east) to 130 Street (on the west).  There are a few streets that blur.  But those are the general zones.  Both are very nice neighborhoods.  The Ludlow neighborhood is more racial diverse than boulevard.  However, both Boulevard and Ludlow schools are equally diverse.  Four of my nephews and nieces attended Boulevard.  My youngest nephew is currently enrolled there.

 

Do you mean Onaway? I know you know that Ludlow's been closed for a long time.  Don't confuse Villain!

 

Fernway is ok, but be aware lots of the homes there are two family homes and there are a lot of renters.

 

Are you referring to the Winslow Rd stuff?  I didn't think there were many or even any two-family homes in Fernway north of Van Aiken.  Fernway north of Van Aiken if beautiful, IMHO; kind of like Malvern but more affordable.

 

 

Yes  Onaway!  Sorry kids.

 

Most of the two family homes are on Winslow, but in the fernway area, there are a lot of homes that are occupied by renters.

MyTwoSense..thanks for the detailed response.

 

Don't want to start a board war in this topic..but reading through the forums at city-data.com found quite a few posters that suggested you stay away from the western border of Shaker. Boulevard I think I just read that the western part has quite a few rental properties.

 

Anyways...we are looking more for a single family home with 4br with 2400-3000 sq ft. Don't need a huge yard but at least a patch of grass in the backyard would be a requirement. Price range would be 200's or low 300's. And we'd prefer a house that's been recently updated/upgraded so we don't have to do much work before we move in.

 

Sounds like crime isn't much of an issue which is good. We don't necessarily need to be able to walk to restaurants/shops in 5 minutes. Just the option to be able to walk some nice streets on a summer night and enjoy the neighborhood. Ideally a safe park or place for kids to play within 15 minute walk or 5 minute bike ride. And some buffer between us and commercial area is probably good...we'll be more family oriented anyways. So that's not really an issue.

 

We've been renters in Pittsburgh for years now and now that we're making the move to Cleveland decided to buy...so this will be our first house. A bit concerned about the maintenance on some of the 20's and 30's houses. Any idea as to how much $$ we'd have to budget for upkeep on those houses? And would a 50's house be considerably less maintenance? Love the charm of the 20's & 30's houses...just want to make sure we don't get into a money pit also. And want to make sure it's decent from an investment standpoint as an area where we can know at least our house value will stay relatively stable (as much as possible these days at least)

 

So you were mistaken about Fernway...would be a good place to buy? Or too many renters you think? Would prefer to be in an area with single family homes and not dual family residences.

 

Just seems like most of the places that caught are eye were in Fernway or Mercer.

We saw one house we liked in Pepper Pike...but then noticed there were no sidewalks which was a big negative.

 

 

 

Welcome Villain! To echo the other opinions here, crime is pretty much a non-issue in both Fernway and Mercer, so I wouldn't make dictate your choice. I'd think more about the architecture and exact location, including proximity to retail, public transit, schools, jobs and other places you'll be traveling to often. Personally, I'd prefer Fernway based on the pre-war housing stock and easy walkability (which is a lot spottier the further east you go). Good luck with your choice and move!

 

Great..thanks for the info. Good to know about crime. Where are the 'rough' areas that border shaker? West and South?

 

I would deifnitely say you can't go wrong with either neighborhood. Both are nice and convenient (close to rapid, stores, schools, libraries, etc.). I personally much prefer the houses and feel of Fernway, and it will be 5 minutes less on the commute. When I was a student at Case, I worked for a year at Chagrin and Lee and often times had to go from Case to work at around 5 pm. It normally took me 10 minutes to get there in rush hour traffic (which really isn't that bad in this area). Travelling to Case is easily 2 minutes shorter thanks to the MLK/Ambleside/Murray Hill shortcut, which is only one way northbound, so it won't help you going back home, but is a great morning route to avoid a lot of traffic and save time going to Case in the morning.

 

The commute to the Mercer neighborhood would be around 15 minutes. To Beachwood it would be 20-25 minutes, depending on what part of Beachwood, and Pepper Pike, Lyndhurst, and Mayfield would all be 25-30 minutes (or more, depending on traffic).

 

Great info...good to hear from someone who actually lived in the area and did the same commute we'll be doing. We were actually going to come in on a weekday when we get closer to buying and test drive some of the routes in rush hour. May get back to you then and ask you for your suggested routes.

 

So to Case in rush hour 10 minutes from Fernway, and 15 from Mercer? And non-rush hour what are you looking at...5 minutes from Fernway?

 

And IF we were to wind up in Beachwood or Pepper Pike. What do you think rush hour commutes from there would be to Case?

 

 

 

Fernway is fine.  Not as many renters as Ludlow, Moreland or Lamond.  Any rental in Fernway would be closest to Van Aken. 

 

Aside from MTS bias, if there are areas to stay away from, you will know them when you see it (less upkeep). 

MyTwoSense..thanks for the detailed response.

 

Don't want to start a board war in this topic..but reading through the forums at city-data.com found quite a few posters that suggested you stay away from the western border of Shaker. Boulevard I think I just read that the western part has quite a few rental properties.

 

Anyways...we are looking more for a single family home with 4br with 2400-3000 sq ft. Don't need a huge yard but at least a patch of grass in the backyard would be a requirement. Price range would be 200's or low 300's. And we'd prefer a house that's been recently updated/upgraded so we don't have to do much work before we move in.

 

Sounds like crime isn't much of an issue which is good. We don't necessarily need to be able to walk to restaurants/shops in 5 minutes. Just the option to be able to walk some nice streets on a summer night and enjoy the neighborhood. Ideally a safe park or place for kids to play within 15 minute walk or 5 minute bike ride. And some buffer between us and commercial area is probably good...we'll be more family oriented anyways. So that's not really an issue.

 

We've been renters in Pittsburgh for years now and now that we're making the move to Cleveland decided to buy...so this will be our first house. A bit concerned about the maintenance on some of the 20's and 30's houses. Any idea as to how much $$ we'd have to budget for upkeep on those houses? And would a 50's house be considerably less maintenance? Love the charm of the 20's & 30's houses...just want to make sure we don't get into a money pit also. And want to make sure it's decent from an investment standpoint as an area where we can know at least our house value will stay relatively stable (as much as possible these days at least)

 

So you were mistaken about Fernway...would be a good place to buy? Or too many renters you think? Would prefer to be in an area with single family homes and not dual family residences.

 

Just seems like most of the places that caught are eye were in Fernway or Mercer.

We saw one house we liked in Pepper Pike...but then noticed there were no sidewalks which was a big negative.

 

 

 

 

Honey, this board is where the real answers will come from.  The western border of Shaker is adjacent to Cleveland.  However, that does not mean it unsafe.  AGAIN, that doesn't mean it's unsafe.  Most of the homes in my complex are more expensive then the homes across the street in shaker.  Crime isn't an issue as long as you use COMMON SENSE and that could be anywhere. 

 

In regards to renovation question each house is its own separate case.  My parents renovated their rental house when they bought it in the late 90s, they spent about 30k. 

 

The age of a home does not make a difference in regard to the upkeep and maintenance.  If a home owner of a pre war home has been meticulous in maintenance vs. a home owner of a 60s home with a bad layout and sub par materials, its a wash.  Again, you have no idea what you need to do until you crack open a wall.

 

I honestly suggest any new person to a city to rent first, learn the lay of the land and look while you are renting.  Buying a home is a big step.

 

Fernway has renters, that is where one of my parents rental properties is and I have relatives that live in that area.

 

Mercer area....yuk!  That just my personal opinion.

 

Well parts of Shaker didn't have sidewalks until the late 80's.  LOL

 

 

Fernway is fine.  Not as many renters as Ludlow, Moreland or Lamond.  Any rental in Fernway would be closest to Van Aken. 

 

Aside from MTS bias, if there are areas to stay away from, you will know them when you see it (less upkeep). 

 

Just so Villian understands.  The majority of renters in Ludlow are on Van Aken or South Moreland and going to toward Shaker Square.  SS was built as a rental Community. If you're on Beckett, Aswood, Hampton, Etc.  Those are single family homes.

 

If I was going to be biased, move to shaker square, pay less taxes on your home and send your kids to Shaker Schools although you have to pay.

Even the "worst" parts of Shaker are pretty safe, despite a very high profile and scary crime committed a year ago on the border with Cleveland  (near Onaway and Van Aiken).  Violent crime committed against strangers (i.e., non-domestic violence) is really rare within Shaker's borders.  More likely in some of the areas near the Cleveland border is petty crime (like thefts from unlocked garages) or quality of life issues (maintenance of foreclosed houses, noise). 

 

North of Van Aiken, I wouldn't worry about renters or crime at all (though still take normal precautions, of course).  The parks in Shaker are also awesome, with a variety of bucolic lakes, athletic fields, woods, trails, a nature center, etc.  There are lots of University Circle employees there, so you would be in good company.  Same goes for Beachwood and Pepperpike too.

 

 

 

 

Even the "worst" parts of Shaker are pretty safe, despite a very high profile and scary crime committed a year ago on the border with Cleveland  (near Onaway and Van Aiken).  Violent crime committed against strangers (i.e., non-domestic violence) is really rare within Shaker's borders.  More likely in some of the areas near the Cleveland border is petty crime (like thefts from unlocked garages) or quality of life issues (maintenance of foreclosed houses, noise). 

 

North of Van Aiken, I wouldn't worry about renters or crime at all (though still take normal precautions, of course).  The parks in Shaker are also awesome, with a variety of bucolic lakes, athletic fields, woods, trails, a nature center, etc.  There are lots of University Circle employees there, so you would be in good company.  Same goes for Beachwood and Pepperpike too.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats why I suggested they also check cleveland heights.

^Though I'm guessing Villain is also thinking about schools, which would probably make Shaker more appealing.

I found for the most part that the high taxes on homes in Shaker makes them less feasable to use as rentals, unless they were in really lower priced parts (small houses). 

 

Have you looked in Cleveland Heights? 

 

 

 

Oh. My. God!!! I think I'm going to have a heart attack!!  :-o And I think MTS is going to get fired from his job at "Have You Hugged Shaker Square Today?" development corporation.

 

OK, seriously, Cleveland Heights is a good suggestion.

 

And if you are into deal shopping, check out the City of Shaker Heights Racial Integration Incentives. If an area becomes too white, black, or other, the city will offer incentives to other races to move in there. The city has other assistance and housing programs, too. See:

 

http://www.shakeronline.com/about/incentive/

^Though I'm guessing Villain is also thinking about schools, which would probably make Shaker more appealing.

 

Yeah...schools are definitely a factor as well. Sounds like Shaker has very good schools.

Thanks for the notes about the incentive programs as well.

 

Still a little way away from making our decision but I think we'll focus on Shaker and keep our eyes on places in Beachwood & Pepper Pike. Although I'm thinking we'll wind up in Shaker as long as we can find something updated & well kept within our price range.

 

Taxes seem to be much higher in Shaker but it does seem like you get a great community in return which is more important to us than the higher taxes.

 

One question I had. I noticed something about Shaker Violations when looking at some of the houses. How often do they review your house for violations? And once they find violations how long do you have to fix them?

 

And any other services or things we should know about that we'd get by living in Shaker over someplace like Beachwood or PepperPike?

 

 

 

^I believe that a sale of a property in Shaker triggers an inspection, which is probably what the listings refer to.  You should probably check with the city to get answers to your questions about inspections.

 

Yes, taxes in Shaker are high- among the highest in the state.  It's the result of well paid teachers, high levels of city services (e.g., garbage collection from the rear of your house, so no hauling trash to the curb) and a relative lack of property tax-paying commercial development to help foot the bill.

 

It's not a service, but there are broad differences in the types of buyers attracted to Shaker, Beachwood and Pepper Pike.  Pepper Pike is overwhelmingly large lot sf homes, so it will be more uniformly upper middle class, white, professional and politically conservative.  That may or may not matter to you (I don't mean it as a complement nor a criticism).  Shaker residents are more likely to be drawn to its reputation for racial/religious diversity and tolerance (beyond just black and white), relative density, architectural attributes, transit access and proximity to University Circle and downtown.  These are broad generalizations, but they motivate many buyers and likely result in some sorting.

 

Have you looked in Cleveland Heights? 

 

 

 

Oh. My. God!!! I think I'm going to have a heart attack!!  :o And I think MTS is going to get fired from his job at "Have You Hugged Shaker Square Today?" development corporation.

 

OK, seriously, Cleveland Heights is a good suggestion.

 

And if you are into deal shopping, check out the City of Shaker Heights Racial Integration Incentives. If an area becomes too white, black, or other, the city will offer incentives to other races to move in there. The city has other assistance and housing programs, too. See:

 

http://www.shakeronline.com/about/incentive/

 

 

^Though I'm guessing Villain is also thinking about schools, which would probably make Shaker more appealing.

 

Yeah...schools are definitely a factor as well. Sounds like Shaker has very good schools.

Thanks for the notes about the incentive programs as well.

 

Still a little way away from making our decision but I think we'll focus on Shaker and keep our eyes on places in Beachwood & Pepper Pike. Although I'm thinking we'll wind up in Shaker as long as we can find something updated & well kept within our price range.

 

Taxes seem to be much higher in Shaker but it does seem like you get a great community in return which is more important to us than the higher taxes.

 

One question I had. I noticed something about Shaker Violations when looking at some of the houses. How often do they review your house for violations? And once they find violations how long do you have to fix them?

 

And any other services or things we should know about that we'd get by living in Shaker over someplace like Beachwood or PepperPike?

 

 

 

 

Shaker Hts. and Cleveland Hts. have the best cities services around and your taxes go a long way.  Parks, recreation, etc.  Beachwood and Pepper Pike pale in comparison.

And would a 50's house be considerably less maintenance? Love the charm of the 20's & 30's houses...just want to make sure we don't get into a money pit also. And want to make sure it's decent from an investment standpoint as an area where we can know at least our house value will stay relatively stable (as much as possible these days at least)

 

In regards to renovation question each house is its own separate case. My parents renovated their rental house when they bought it in the late 90s, they spent about 30k.

 

The age of a home does not make a difference in regard to the upkeep and maintenance. If a home owner of a pre war home has been meticulous in maintenance vs. a home owner of a 60s home with a bad layout and sub par materials, its a wash. Again, you have no idea what you need to do until you crack open a wall.

 

I completely agree with MTS here. Many older homes were made with quality materials and in the long run will actually require less major maintenance. I have a prewar home and have put a fair amount of money into it, but less than a lot of people I know who have houses built in the past 30 years, and I like to think mine is currently in much better shape than theirs. I know someone who lives in a newer southern suburb whose 15 year old house is literally crumbling (poor foundation).

 

I can't guarantee you that your house won't have problems. It's like a car. If the previous owner took care of it, it's likely to be in just as good of shape as a newer house that may not have been cared for as well. I believe that a lot of people that own a home in Shaker Heights appreciate the architecture and value of the structure itself moreso than a lot of the newer, blander styles of homes and I think it means that many of them have been cared for moreso than some of the newer homes in the area. That doesn't mean you don't need to still be careful when inspecting the home, though. There will always be some people in any area who haven't kept their home up.

 

We saw one house we liked in Pepper Pike...but then noticed there were no sidewalks which was a big negative.

 

Pepper Pike is certainly not pedestrain friendly. Not even in the same universe as Shaker Heights. Not only are there not many places to walk to, the car (SUV) culture absolutely dominates.

^Though I'm guessing Villain is also thinking about schools, which would probably make Shaker more appealing.

 

Yeah...schools are definitely a factor as well. Sounds like Shaker has very good schools.

Thanks for the notes about the incentive programs as well.

 

Still a little way away from making our decision but I think we'll focus on Shaker and keep our eyes on places in Beachwood & Pepper Pike. Although I'm thinking we'll wind up in Shaker as long as we can find something updated & well kept within our price range.

 

Taxes seem to be much higher in Shaker but it does seem like you get a great community in return which is more important to us than the higher taxes.

 

One question I had. I noticed something about Shaker Violations when looking at some of the houses. How often do they review your house for violations? And once they find violations how long do you have to fix them?

 

And any other services or things we should know about that we'd get by living in Shaker over someplace like Beachwood or PepperPike?

 

 

 

 

My inlaws live in Shaker near the HS, and crime hasn't been a problem for them in 30 years. Shaker does conduct drive by inspections to make sure the outside of the house is properly maintained, (i.e. exterior maintained, driveway not crumbling, grass mowed, etc.) and will cite you if you're not keeping the house up. In my opinion they get a little aggressive, as my inlaws got a nastygram about some bricks in the back yard patio that were starting to sag. I told my father in law to call up the inspector and tell him the next time he trespassed on his yard he'd be shot on sight. He didn't make that call.

 

on the upside, they do make certain that you don't have some run down house next door bringing down the neighborhood. It's a great city, no doubt.

 

My wife and I live further east and are scouting houses in Shaker as well. Can't beat a shaker house for charm.

The high school in Shaker is clearly better than Cleveland Heights High... as much as it does pain me to say that (yes, I am still a bitter rival 15 years later).  But don't underestimate the "excellence" of Heights High.  Meaning, the arts, the AP programs and other qualities endure and can and do produce Ivy League students.  And if your kids are young, the Roxboro School district in southern CH will hold its water with anywhere in Shaker K-8.

 

Regarding the homes themselves, just make sure that your analysis focuses on the "bones" of the house, not cosmetic crap like paint, wallpaper, tile, window treatment, etc. 

And would a 50's house be considerably less maintenance? Love the charm of the 20's & 30's houses...just want to make sure we don't get into a money pit also. And want to make sure it's decent from an investment standpoint as an area where we can know at least our house value will stay relatively stable (as much as possible these days at least)

 

In regards to renovation question each house is its own separate case.  My parents renovated their rental house when they bought it in the late 90s, they spent about 30k.

 

The age of a home does not make a difference in regard to the upkeep and maintenance.  If a home owner of a pre war home has been meticulous in maintenance vs. a home owner of a 60s home with a bad layout and sub par materials, its a wash.  Again, you have no idea what you need to do until you crack open a wall.

 

I completely agree with MTS here.  Many older homes were made with quality materials and in the long run will actually require less major maintenance.  I have a prewar home and have put a fair amount of money into it, but less than a lot of people I know who have houses built in the past 30 years, and I like to think mine is currently in much better shape than theirs.  I know someone who lives in a newer southern suburb whose 15 year old house is literally crumbling (poor foundation).

 

I can't guarantee you that your house won't have problems.  It's like a car.  If the previous owner took care of it, it's likely to be in just as good of shape as a newer house that may not have been cared for as well.  I believe that a lot of people that own a home in Shaker Heights appreciate the architecture and value of the structure itself moreso than a lot of the newer, blander styles of homes and I think it means that many of them have been cared for moreso than some of the newer homes in the area.  That doesn't mean you don't need to still be careful when inspecting the home, though.  There will always be some people in any area who haven't kept their home up.

 

We saw one house we liked in Pepper Pike...but then noticed there were no sidewalks which was a big negative.

 

Pepper Pike is certainly not pedestrain friendly.  Not even in the same universe as Shaker Heights.  Not only are there not many places to walk to, the car (SUV) culture absolutely dominates.

 

Jam is dead on.  I, my parents and brother live in homes built in the late 20's.  My cousin live in beachwood in a house that was built in (IIRC) '72 and is the ugly thing in america.  They've put so more to maintain, then the purchase of the house.  ::) ::)

 

Thank god he's come to his senses and is going to sell.

 

 

My inlaws live in Shaker near the HS, and crime hasn't been a problem for them in 30 years. Shaker does conduct drive by inspections to make sure the outside of the house is properly maintained, (i.e. exterior maintained, driveway not crumbling, grass mowed, etc.) and will cite you if you're not keeping the house up. In my opinion they get a little aggressive, as my inlaws got a nastygram about some bricks in the back yard patio that were starting to sag. I told my father in law to call up the inspector and tell him the next time he trespassed on his yard he'd be shot on sight. He didn't make that call.

 

on the upside, they do make certain that you don't have some run down house next door bringing down the neighborhood. It's a great city, no doubt.

 

My wife and I live further east and are scouting houses in Shaker as well. Can't beat a shaker house for charm.

 

Crime isn't a big problem, but some areas have invisible racial barriers.  IE parkland Drive.  But you can have smaller crimes that go unreported and are handled privately.

 

When our home was broken into my parents wanted to keep it on the low.  Everyone wants to be careful not to blemish the "hillcrest" reputation.

 

In regard to inspections.  Shaker is bad, but CH takes the cake.  When we had to have our kitchen rebuilt, due to the Ivy infestation.  Shaker wanted my parents to do it on the spot.  They were relentless.  If you cars is blocking the trash collection, you hear about it.  Grass to long or unkept.  You hear about it.  Then they throw that historical designation BS in your face.

 

The inspectors come out of nowhere.  Just this past summer my mom was laying out in the back yard, next thing she sees is a man with a handheld computer is looking in the windows.  If you're on one of the "premiere" streets, the inspections are even worse.

 

When my brother was having mole remediation a few years ago, he received a citation for the tarp and and some incorrect permit.

 

The high school in Shaker is clearly better than Cleveland Heights High... as much as it does pain me to say that (yes, I am still a bitter rival 15 years later).  But don't underestimate the "excellence" of Heights High.  Meaning, the arts, the AP programs and other qualities endure and can and do produce Ivy League students.  And if your kids are young, the Roxboro School district in southern CH will hold its water with anywhere in Shaker K-8.

 

Regarding the homes themselves, just make sure that your analysis focuses on the "bones" of the house, not cosmetic crap like paint, wallpaper, tile, window treatment, etc. 

 

I think the high schools are about the same.  My cousins attended Roxboro and Wiley Heights High.  Most of my cousins children attend Roxboro or Monticello and they have no problems with the school or curriculum.  The biggest complaint I hear is people from outside the district enrolling in CH schools that are not suppose to be there.  Thats been a problem in CH for years because the district covers three 'burbs.

 

When I was in High School Heights offered and still offers programs that neighboring high schools don't offer.  CH AP programs are often rated very high. 

 

 

Thanks for the insight on the house...we'll focus more on the quality of the house & maintenance rather than just the age of the house.

 

One concern I know we did have specific to older houses was the very old wiring and galvanized steel water lines. Have gotten some warnings from people about buying a house with those...is that not as much of an issue if the house is well maintained?

 

Great insight...pretty sure we will wind up in Shaker (or possible Cleve Hts), but right now I think we'd be focusing on Fernway, Mercer and Malvern areas.

Is there much difference in the Elementary schools between those areas? Looks like the kids would be going to one of these Elementary schools depending where you lived. 

Fernway

Onaway

Bouldvard

Mercer

 

 

Thanks for the insight on the house...we'll focus more on the quality of the house & maintenance rather than just the age of the house.

 

One concern I know we did have specific to older houses was the very old wiring and galvanized steel water lines. Have gotten some warnings from people about buying a house with those...is that not as much of an issue if the house is well maintained?

 

Great insight...pretty sure we will wind up in Shaker (or possible Cleve Hts), but right now I think we'd be focusing on Fernway, Mercer and Malvern areas.

Is there much difference in the Elementary schools between those areas? Looks like the kids would be going to one of these Elementary schools depending where you lived. 

Fernway

Onaway

Bouldvard

Mercer

 

 

Malvern is expensive and the houses range from 4500 to 7000 square feet.  Do you really need a home that size?  Sections of Fernway and Boulevard also have large homes.

 

Is renting first an option??  Seriously.  You seem to have a lot of question and I would strongly suggest someone NEW to the area rent before taking the home owner plunge.

 

As stated earlier Boulevard and Onaway are pretty similar in diversity.  Mercer is damn near all white. 

Villain, please take some of MTS's strong opinions with a grain of salt- like all of us, his views are strongly shaped by his experiences.

 

Whether or not it's important to you is your business, but as of 2000, Mercer was almost 10% black and less than 86% non-Hispanic white, which by Cuyahoga County standards, is pretty integrated (and stably integrated too).

 

And Malvern's houses do tend to be pretty large (larger than Fernway), but many of them are closer to 3000 sf than to 4500 square feet.

 

Renting is definitely the best way to get to know a new neighborhood before committing with big money, but I can understand not wanting to do a big time move twice in quick secession if you find a neighborhood that seems to work well.  Good luck, and think about reporting back on where you end up!

Villain, please take some of MTS's strong opinions with a grain of salt- like all of us, his views are strongly shaped by his experiences.

 

Whether or not it's important to you is your business, but as of 2000, Mercer was almost 10% black and less than 86% non-Hispanic white, which by Cuyahoga County standards, is pretty integrated (and stably integrated too).

 

And Malvern's houses do tend to be pretty large (larger than Fernway), but many of them are closer to 3000 sf than to 4500 square feet.

 

Renting is definitely the best way to get to know a new neighborhood before committing with big money, but I can understand not wanting to do a big time move twice in quick secession if you find a neighborhood that seems to work well.  Good luck, and think about reporting back on where you end up!

 

The Malvern Neighorhood is Warrensville (West) to a little past Attleboro road (its not quite to Lee Rd. That Always confused me.) and Fairmont to S. Woodland.  The mansions are huge.  The homes on The Parks, Shaker & S. Woodland and the cross strees are generally 4k sq. ft or larger.  My parents house is over 6k. 

 

I grew up there and I'll give you the "stable" minority number as it hasn't changed since I went to Malvern.  We were the only "brown" people on the block.

 

Like I said, mercer is damn near all white.

I also agree that you should rent.  The Cleveland area is so diverse (racially, economically, socially, etc.) that it probably would be best to familiarize yourself with the are before buying.

 

On the other hand, it does seem like you have done your research.  If you look at pre-war homes, I would try to find one with forced air so you don't have to worry about boilers and window units.  JMO.

One additional note.  If you live in the Moreland Neighborhood, your kids will attend school the mercer elementary school.

The Malvern Neighorhood is Warrensville (West) to a little past Attleboro road (its not quite to Lee Rd. That Always confused me.) and Fairmont to S. Woodland. The mansions are huge. The homes on The Parks, Shaker & S. Woodland and the cross strees are generally 4k sq. ft or larger. My parents house is over 6k.

 

I grew up there and I'll give you the "stable" minority number as it hasn't changed since I went to Malvern. We were the only "brown" people on the block.

 

Like I said, mercer is damn near all white.

 

MTS, you grew up in Malvern.  The stat I through up there (from 2000 census) was for Mercer (tract 1833).

 

You are right that Malvern is mostly very large houses and mansions, but south of Shaker Blvd, there are still many houses less than 4000 sf.

 

Hts44121, do you have any sense how many pre-war houses have updated forced air HVAC?

The Malvern Neighorhood is Warrensville (West) to a little past Attleboro road (its not quite to Lee Rd. That Always confused me.) and Fairmont to S. Woodland.  The mansions are huge.  The homes on The Parks, Shaker & S. Woodland and the cross strees are generally 4k sq. ft or larger.  My parents house is over 6k. 

 

I grew up there and I'll give you the "stable" minority number as it hasn't changed since I went to Malvern.  We were the only "brown" people on the block.

 

Like I said, mercer is damn near all white.

 

MTS, you grew up in Malvern.  The stat I through up there (from 2000 census) was for Mercer (tract 1833).

 

You are right that Malvern is mostly very large houses and mansions, but south of Shaker Blvd, there are still many houses less than 4000 sf.

 

Hts44121, do you have any sense how many pre-war houses have updated forced air HVAC?

 

I know, but mercer is whiter than Malvern.  Nobody but PLJ wants to live in those late 60's split level and 70's ranch homes.

 

I think you're forgetting around Green Lake, on South Woodland & Parkland the homes are MASSIVE.

Hts44121, do you have any sense how many pre-war houses have updated forced air HVAC?

 

Not any of the ones I have personally lived in, but I have been inside some.  Whether they were converted that way or part of the original build, I do not know.  Probably much more common in the higher priced homes.

 

I grew up in a tudor with radiators and we definitely had some issues over the years.  My sister just bought a beautiful home in CH on Monmouth and it has a boiler.  Come to find out upon inspection that it was leaking carbon monoxide and that resulted in her almost walking away until the owners knocked the repair cost off of the sale price.

 

Another issue with those older homes can be the roofs as well.  My sister's home has a slate roof and it is in dire need of repair.  Just repairing that roof cost more than I spent replacing my entire roof.

^I'm just telling you what the census reports: tract 1833 is everything east of Warrensville and north of South Woodland (except east of Belvoir, it includes a sliver south of South Woodland).  By the way, remember too that north of Shaker Blvd, Mercer has lots of great pre-war houses too.

 

Yes, most of the houses in Malvern (including around Green Lake) are massive- I totally agree, but on the side streets between South Woodland and Shaker (Manchester, Carlton, Montgomery, Falmouth etc.) many of the houses are a notch smaller, closer to 3000-3500 sf.

You are correct...we did see a few places in Malvern south of Shaker that were around 3000 sq ft. That would be our ideal range and only reason I mentioned Malvern is because a couple of those 3000 sq ft houses in Malvern south of Shaker looked decent. So really it would be Fernway, Mercer and just the smaller houses in Malvern.

 

Appreciate the comments on renting, but we've been renting for the past 7 years and with this big move are ready to finally be settled in a more permanent way. And we'll be able to qualify for the 8k first time homebuyer credit which is a nice incentive to buy this year rather than rent for a year and buy next year.

 

Planning on making another visit which would be our 3rd in early March and we're going to try and take a real detailed look. I'll report back then...thanks for the help.

I've been reading all of these posts just to see if anything has really changed in Shaker.  My parents moved us there in 1972.  We lived in the Malvern area on the same street where Paul Newman grew up.  Nowhere I have lived since has given me the same level of satisfaction.  None of the houses, the schools, the services can compare.  I especially miss the diversity of race, religion and age of the people who live in Shaker.

 

You've picked a great place to live, you won't regret it.

 

^I'm just telling you what the census reports: tract 1833 is everything east of Warrensville and north of South Woodland (except east of Belvoir, it includes a sliver south of South Woodland).  By the way, remember too that north of Shaker Blvd, Mercer has lots of great pre-war houses too.

 

Yes, most of the houses in Malvern (including around Green Lake) are massive- I totally agree, but on the side streets between South Woodland and Shaker (Manchester, Carlton, Montgomery, Falmouth etc.) many of the houses are a notch smaller, closer to 3000-3500 sf.

 

I'll say some not "lots".

 

Green Lake is not apart of the malvern neighborhood. It's in the Fernway neighborhood.

You are correct...we did see a few places in Malvern south of Shaker that were around 3000 sq ft. That would be our ideal range and only reason I mentioned Malvern is because a couple of those 3000 sq ft houses in Malvern south of Shaker looked decent. So really it would be Fernway, Mercer and just the smaller houses in Malvern.

 

Appreciate the comments on renting, but we've been renting for the past 7 years and with this big move are ready to finally be settled in a more permanent way. And we'll be able to qualify for the 8k first time homebuyer credit which is a nice incentive to buy this year rather than rent for a year and buy next year.

 

Planning on making another visit which would be our 3rd in early March and we're going to try and take a real detailed look. I'll report back then...thanks for the help.

 

Apparently I don't go down these streets.  I stand corrected.

 

Be sure to take a good look at Cleveland Heights.

MTS said, "Apparently I don't go down these streets."

 

That's another plus for that area and those streets.  Traffic stays to Shaker and South Woodland.  Streets like Brighton, Fontenay, Glengary are only traveled by those that live or are visiting on the street.  When I lived on Brighton I could be all the way downtown in 20 minutes if I hit all the lights correctly.  Of course the best part is being right next to the Green line of RTA.  I miss being able to read a book or the newspaper on my way to work.

MTS said, "Apparently I don't go down these streets."

 

That's another plus for that area and those streets.  Traffic stays to Shaker and South Woodland.  Streets like Brighton, Fontenay, Glengary are only traveled by those that live or are visiting on the street.  When I lived on Brighton I could be all the way downtown in 20 minutes if I hit all the lights correctly.  Of course the best part is being right next to the Green line of RTA.  I miss being able to read a book or the newspaper on my way to work.

 

I live on Shaker Blvd at Shaker Square so when I venture East into suburbia, via car, I only use S. Park or Shaker Square.  Unless I'm craving Mr. Heros then I take Van Aken.

 

When I take the train. I'm there in no time.  It's such a huge asset!

 

Where do you currently live?

MTS said, "Apparently I don't go down these streets."

 

That's another plus for that area and those streets.  Traffic stays to Shaker and South Woodland.  Streets like Brighton, Fontenay, Glengary are only traveled by those that live or are visiting on the street.  When I lived on Brighton I could be all the way downtown in 20 minutes if I hit all the lights correctly.  Of course the best part is being right next to the Green line of RTA.  I miss being able to read a book or the newspaper on my way to work.

 

I live on Shaker Blvd at Shaker Square so when I venture East into suburbia, via car, I only use S. Park or Shaker Square.  Unless I'm craving Mr. Heros then I take Van Aken.

 

When I take the train. I'm there in no time.  It's such a huge asset!

 

Where do you currently live?

 

Lakewood on Lake Ave.  The houses remind me of Shaker and the drive downtown is almost as easy except for that big orange ball on the horizon, but that's only on clear days.  Driving past Edgewater Park and the Lake is nice too.  I don't take a bus or train because of the need for flexibility like getting the kids from daycare.

 

Before a moderator tells us to get back on topic, one of the reasons that I'm in the house I'm in now is the satisfaction I had with the pre-war house from the Malvern area.  I'm in that camp that doesn't like the split levels and other junk that filled in Shaker.  Perhaps those new houses have bigger, more useable closets, but you can't beat the workmanship and character of a house built in the 20's.  So to villain189, go with a pre-war home and it will really feel like a home.