I thought we had a safety force thread, but couldn't find it.

 

Anyway, discuss... because this issue is about to get a whole lot nastier and the legal wrangling is well underway.  The unions are not going to agree to the proposed paycuts or the furlough days.  Police, Fire and EMS are all going to face layoffs if the City has its way.

 

Where is the TARP money for the police?  I thought part of the stimulus plan was supposed to prevent police layoffs in cities like Cleveland.

Ohio has a state police force.  Get them off traffic duty immediately.  Coordinate with the other police forces operating w/in Cleveland city limits to maximize overall street presence.  Set up a "slacker line," so that any officers seen shirking their duties can be anonymously reported and dealt with.  If the union wants to play hardball the citizens can too. 

Where is the TARP money for the police? I thought part of the stimulus plan was supposed to prevent police layoffs in cities like Cleveland.

 

Great question....  Ill see what I can find out.

If the union wants to play hardball the citizens can too.

 

This is a battle between the unions and the administration, not the unions and the citizens.  There are plenty of citizens who would favor the unions' stance and there are plenty that will side with the administration.  But it is not like cutting the safety forces is the only way to balance the budget.  The police and fire personnel already make less than similarly situated employees in comparable cities.  Yet, the administration has told them to accept a pay cut or face significant layoffs.  Has Frank Jackson announced his pay cut yet?  How about Martin Flask?  Sweeney?  I don't know personally... just asking.  This is a mess and there is no easy solution.

If the union wants to play hardball the citizens can too.

 

This is a battle between the unions and the administration, not the unions and the citizens. There are plenty of citizens who would favor the unions' stance and there are plenty that will side with the administration. But it is not like cutting the safety forces is the only way to balance the budget. The police and fire personnel already make less than similarly situated employees in comparable cities. Yet, the administration has told them to accept a pay cut or face significant layoffs. Has Frank Jackson announced his pay cut yet? How about Martin Flask? Sweeney? I don't know personally... just asking. This is a mess and there is no easy solution.

 

That's fair, good points.  I guess my response is that the administration is not a private corporation, so as a city resident I do have a horse in this race.  Completely agree that city hall is overpaid.  Would prefer that safety forces aren't underpaid.  Then again, how's their performance recently?  I'm referring to police... not fire, whose performance I have no clue about and assume is exemplary.  But the police have had some hi-profile nonfeasance in the news this past year.  Not a good time to complain about pay, when theirs is still some of the best in the city. 

it's hard to side with the union on this one... someone correct me if I'm wrong but we are talking about 10 furlough days throughout the year (and I know from someone inside the city that these 10 unpaid days have been broken down into the entire calendar year... so we are really talking about losing only a few dollars each paycheck... not a week and a half straight of unpaid time, and basically you are gaining 10 vacation days), and repealing the uniform allowance ($50).  Yeah... I'd rather 69 of my fellow officers get laid off.

 

and yes, the mayor took this "pay cut" as well.

As someone who will be unemployed at 8am Monday, I will tell you that the unpaid furlough days were not presented to the police department from city hall due to the fact that in taking a furlough day would result in another officer getting called in to replace that officers absense at the rate of time and half, there fore not an option.

so what was presented to safety forces? would it be the pay equivalent of the 10 furloughs?

4% paycut I believe.  Mixed stories on this issue will lead one to sway one way or the other depending on who you are getting your info from.  The administration will attempt to demonize the unions and the unions will attempt to demonize the administration.  Both will make very convincing and persuasive arguments.

I agree... personally I'm not sure I would want to see 70 coworkers and friends unemployed over 4% of salary.  Times stink right now, for everyone.

^And the unions certainly don't want that either I'm sure.  We have a good ole fashioned staredown taking place.  It's a negotiation process and I wouldn't have expected the unions to just cower at the threat of layoffs and accept the first offer the City made.  There could be creative ways to deal with this issue - such as adjusting overtime compensation - that might get worked out where nobody gets laid off and the pay cut is not at the level of 4%.  It is not as if the unions won't take a paycut... they just want to negotiate over what the pay cut will be as is required by Ohio's collective bargaining laws.  And negotiating they are, albeit with little apparent success.  Next stop I'm sure will be 1200 Ontario Street.

Man, if my pay was only down 4% from what it was pre-recession I'd be throwing a party.  And I wasn't making as much as these guys to start.

But these are contractual or 'for cause' (not at-will) employees.  And they're civil servants entitled to the accompanying protections.  They have much more leverage than most of the rest of us.  The City cannot arbitrarily cut pay or do a reduction in force because it wants to or because it will generate money the City wants to use in other areas.  Every few years the City gets to sit down at the bargaining table with these employees' unions and negotiate all the terms and conditions of the upcoming contract.  If they can't agree, SERB steps in and sorts things out because strikes and lockouts are illegal for the safety forces.  It's a clean process actually, like an arbitration.  This is not clean at all.  The unions probably don't dispute that the City must slash budget.  And they probably acknowledge the necessity which has caused the City to need to reneg (in some form) on the contracts.  They just likely have their own ideas on other or less 'drastic' measures and that's what all the haggling is about.  And that's what is going to land this baby in court just like '04.  For instance, if the City determined it needed to slash 'x' amount of dollars off the CPD budget, wouldn't you expect the union body to have a few thoughts on how to do so with either no or less severe paycuts and layoffs?  And wouldn't you expect those individuals to at least think they smell BS when sitting across the table from some white collar City negotiator drawing hard lines in the sand based on information given to him by those that serve 'at the will of' the Mayor (his appointees)?  Just saying....   

Right, of course.  I was also "just saying..."

The city told the CPPA they needed 4.1 million dollars to offset the deficit, that was our proportional share for the CPPA, (fyi they asked the FOP for 1.1 mil) they said give us that by giving up your uniform allowance and longevity pay, and 50 officers wont lose their job. Union counter offered with a 6 million dollar savings in which we kept all of our current pay, and we got layoff notices 2 days before x mas. Union practically unanimously voted against the concessions. I myself voted no, essentially voting to lay myself off. Why, might u ask? Cleveland, mentioned above, is already one of the lowest paying equivalent cities as is. they paid us 10.50 an hour for the academy, all other cities give u full pay, for Cleveland that would be about 23 an hour, academy is 6 months. We are in debt from the city paying us jack up to this point, i spent 2,ooo dollars of my own money on uniforms, 3,000 tax write off in all, again something else which is provided for officers in other cities, that i needed to buy before i could start work, after already digging myself in a whole. Its BS the amount of debt we took on just becoming a CPD officer, and this is where we say no more. The union voted to give us laid off folks 1,000 dollars a month as opposed to giving up money to the city, that is the common sentiment amongst the officers. Is the city in tough times, yes, but u already stripped the workers down to the bone. It is a contract negotiation year and the mayor graduated us and a fire academy knowing he couldn't sustain us past this year because he had a re election to win, so politics is very much apart of this. Safety forces comprise 70% of the city budget (I read somewhere) because they are a solid blue collar job. All these other jobs, minus cabinet positions, these people are the working poor. Little pay, no benefits, and you wonder why social secirity and medicare is bankrupting states, but that's a different discussion altogether