The only good scenario that I could have imagined is if (since the head of AG is friends with Bob Stark) that they moved downtown into his warehouse district project, but that is no longer on the table for Stark. 

 

I wasn't aware they were friends. While Stark isn't a player in the Warehouse District anymore, he does have other properties downtown (East 14th/Prospect area).

 

Mory was an investor with Stark. They have since had a falling out, and while he still has interests in some of Stark's properties, I don't think he's interested in doing much beyond that.

 

My own thought is that this is a shot across the bow for Brooklyn. If they back down, and re-adjust the payroll taxes then all is well. If not, well as others have said, Chagrin Highlands beckons. 

Another point my co-worker made is that Brooklyn also just lost Hugo Boss, and the reason is that in order to fund its I-hate-Cleveland city hall, Brooklyn recently tried to raise taxes on these two regional golden geese. It might be that they refused to provide a tax break, I don't know. Either way, Hugo Boss is gone and AG is up in the air. We should all have a say on how employers of this magnitiude are treated... it shouldn't be the sole discretion of Brooklyn City Hall.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Once more for the win... why do we need a city of Brooklyn? Why can't that become Cleveland? Here's a test of our true willingness to regionalize. How hard will we fight to maintain a suburb that makes the west side of Cleveland into a narrow spindly thing on the map? Does W117/Memphis really need to encounter four municipalities? Let this be the end of Brooklyn, and Linndale as well.

 

 

I don't disagree with you. But as someone who grew up in Brooklyn, worked for the city for over five years, and still knows many people living there, I can tell you that residents generally look down on Cleveland and will not choose to become part of it.

 

I just got that same line of thought from a co-worker who grew up there. My answer: look at the map of your "hometown." If you choose to "look down upon" Cleveland, which surrounds you on 3 sides, you're certifiably insane. We cannot allow insanity to continue running this town(s). If we're going to save the day here, we will not be able to accomodate every little nugget of hate.

 

There's been a lot of mismanagement in Brooklyn during the Patton administration, which has lead to some major financial problems.  Also, a lot of poor decisions have been made in recent years, such as the mayor choosing to fund the development of an animal shelter (despite the fact that there are shelters in Parma, Cleveland, and elsewhere), yet layoff some of the city workers that did work there.  There have been major cuts in services, from seniors receiving free grasscutting to now charging them.  And the recreation center, as I understand it, is bleeding some $180k a month. 

 

In addition to the potential business losses, there are some major things the city will have to address, such as the closing and management of the city-owned dump on Memphis.

 

But at the same time, you have to remember that these small fiefdoms want their independence.  How many times has a study come out that say that suburbs would save money by consolidating services, but nothing ever comes of fruition?  These cities are actively participating in these studies, too!

 

Residents are unhappy...just roll over to the Cleveland.com Brooklyn forum and you'll get a sense.  But still, they'd rather have autonomy. 

 

 

In addition to the potential business losses, there are some major things the city will have to address, such as the closing and management of the city-owned dump on Memphis.

 

 

Another blow to Brooklyn.  The EPA ordered the city dump to close within seven days. 

Some above expressions......

 

 

"In addition to the potential business losses, there are some major things the city will have to address, such as the closing and management of the city-owned dump on Memphis." ....and....

 

"Another blow to Brooklyn.  The EPA ordered the city dump to close within seven days." 

 

 

 

??? If we have to mourn for the loss of a city dump I pity a population who does that. These kinds of jobs and/or revenues aren't worth killing your water and yourself. Maybe we should try and focus on creating a workforce who is skilled in the art of making products from recycled materials in a state of the art facility that produces marginal amounts of byproduct. Seriously, if a dump is the best a given area can do for economic development, that is really pathetic. Not that every place else is without flaw....and maybe I am mistaken but comments that mourn the loss of such things is why some people laugh at the stereotypical mediocre midwest thinking in how we are poor stewards of our environment, or what is party to giving us the stereo-type, anyway.

^There is that view, and then the view of the employees who will lose their job and be forced to look for work in the worst job market in generations.

This dump/landfill closing does not have an effect on the amount of trash being produced, or the amount that winds up in landfills.  The only difference is local people are losing their job and a struggling community is losing tax revenue.

^^ EC, I'm not doing any mourning, but rather saying that it's not just raining in Brooklyn, but pouring.  For years, the landfill helped keep taxes low for residents because trash didn't need to be disposed of in a remote location.  Also, to my understanding, the city received a revenue from other cities and entities that would use the dump. 

 

When closure isn't anticipated and happens suddenly, the mayor, administrators, and council members are stuck scratching their heads trying to figure out how to pay for trash disposal fees and costs to be in compliance with the EPA.  The city hasn't budgeted for these things.

American Greetings still mum on possible move from Brooklyn

Published: Monday, September 20, 2010, 5:20 PM   

Robert Schoenberger, The Plain Dealer

 

 

BROOKLYN, Ohio -- American Greetings' board of directors met last week to discuss the future, but the company still has not decided whether it will move its headquarters from Brooklyn.

 

"American Greetings has not reached a decision regarding the location of its world headquarters. We continue to review this issue and a decision is not before the board at this time," said American Greetings spokesman Patrice Sadd. She declined to say what issues the board discussed during its meeting.

 

American Greetings told its 2,000 Brooklyn employees in January that the company was considering moving to another city or another state in response to city residents approving a 25 percent increase in payroll taxes to 2.5 percent.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/09/american_greetings_still_mum_on_possible_move_from_brooklyn.html

Honestly people....

No FEB? 

 

American Greetings narrows headquarters search to 7 sites in Ohio, Illinois

 

Published: Friday, November 19, 2010, 9:45 AM    Updated: Friday, November 19, 2010, 10:17 AM

  Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer

 

BROOKLYN, Ohio -- American Greetings Corp. is considering seven sites for its corporate headquarters and hopes to make a decision by the end of its fiscal year, in February 2011.

 

The greeting card company has not made a decision to leave Brooklyn, home to its current 2,000-employee corporate headquarters. But American Greetings is evaluating four sites for new construction in Northeast Ohio and is considering two sites with existing buildings in the Chicago area.

 

In a meeting this morning, company officials said they wanted to provide an update to employees and the community, after months of speculation about whether -- and where -- the Fortune 1000 company will go.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/11/american_greetings_narrows_hea.html

Sad that not one of the 7 locations is in cleveland proper...im not advocating regional poaching but if their already looking at indepence and beachwood, why not Cleveland?

 

Yeah, this sucks...  Especially that they are looking at sites in Illinois..

Yeah, this sucks... Especially that they are looking at sites in Illinois..

 

And that they'll move into Chicago proper but not Cleveland proper.

I am getting the same emotions as when there was potential of LeBron leaving Cleveland. I truly hope someone with more power than myself can make them stay in NEO - they are such an asset to this area.

Sad that not one of the 7 locations is in cleveland proper...im not advocating regional poaching but if their already looking at indepence and beachwood, why not Cleveland?

 

 

This sounds like Eaton - Part Duex!

 

and people wonder why the city core is stagnant.  We have a lot businesses in the central core, even if a few came from the burbs, that would be a help to the over all economy and outlook of the CBD.

 

We just had a report on vacancy's in the the East Ninth Cooridor.  Moving to downtown would do wonders for the company, the city, the region on various levels.

Yeah, this sucks... Especially that they are looking at sites in Illinois..

So would they move all of their employees to Illinois?

Did the city of Cleveland do anything to try to attract them here? If they leave northeast Ohio I will be very disappointed. Its just so unfortunate that a site in Cleveland isn't even being considered.

Given: Chagrin Highlands, the owner's all live in Beachwood and that's where all the big development is taking place. The regional leaders and men behind closed doors decided years ago to make the Chagrin Highlands the location of our remaining Fortune 500's. Sherwin-Williams is next to move there with Eaton and UH's new hospital. Just look who owns the Chagrin Highlands and the answers fall into place.

Given: Chagrin Highlands, the owner's all live in Beachwood and that's where all the big development is taking place. The regional leaders and men behind closed doors decided years ago to make the Chagrin Highlands the location of our remaining Fortune 500's. Sherwin-Williams is next to move there with Eaton and UH's new hospital. Just look who owns the Chagrin Highlands and the answers fall into place.

 

Can we stop!  Seriously.  Put a lock on this before it gets out of hand.

I really doubt that Cleveland was never in consideration.  However, I guess we can look at where the owners live to guess where the headquarters will go... not a hard guess at all if you ask me.

 

More sprawl- YAY!

Given: Chagrin Highlands, the owner's all live in Beachwood and that's where all the big development is taking place. The regional leaders and men behind closed doors decided years ago to make the Chagrin Highlands the location of our remaining Fortune 500's. Sherwin-Williams is next to move there with Eaton and UH's new hospital. Just look who owns the Chagrin Highlands and the answers fall into place.

 

Can we stop!  Seriously.  Put a lock on this before it gets out of hand.

 

Can we stop what? I'm stating a fact, that the most powerful developers/real estate group in NE Ohio owns the Chagrin Highlands. That's been known since Mayor White was in charge.

^So why in 20 years has nothing really been built there by this powerful developer.

The entire segment between I-271 and Richmond has been built out completely, with UH being the last major piece of land on that part of the Chagrin Highlands. That hospital cost 300 million to build - not a bad thing to wait 20 years for. So, I don't understand your question. If you are referring to the land north of Harvard, west of Richmond, then I would venture to guess that they had the time, money, and patience to wait to attract the right tenants.. Oh I don't know, maybe they were waiting for what is happening right now with Eaton and AG, two of the few remaining Fortune 500's in our county just happen to want to move there. There still remains a large piece of land east of I-271 on the Orange side. I don't know if Lifetime Fitness is part of the CH, but I am venturing to guess that it is, and that is another large development, along with all the office buildings across the street. I too, would like to see our downtown prosper and it sucks that we can't be like Chicago, but to come on here and discuss what IS actually happening (as good or bad as it is) shouldn't lead to "closing this thread". I'm sorry I'm not also saying they should move downtown, but I am being realistic - they're considering outer ring suburbs and Chicago. They never even considered downtown or the city of Cleveland.

"The Decision"

^The only thing that has really been built is a couple of office buildings as far as I am concerned (the one that Figgie moved into way back when) and maybe the one right on Richmond near one of the entrance and the Marriott.  Eaton is the only major development, now 20 years later.

 

The hospital was never part of the plan.  They were lucky UH decided  recently to move out there.  Fell in their lap.  Had nothing to do with their "power".

 

The municipalities fought against that miserable little shopping plaza that was built as it was not part of the plan either.  That ugly fitness cente could have gone anywhere in Cleveland.

 

 

 

Chagrin Highlands has been a miserable failure in my opinion and has never lived up to the promise and hype of that "powerful" developer.  They had the opportunity to do a great planned development and now they are left to taking what ever they can get in this economy (while doing nothing when everybody was flush with $$)

AG has gone through a dramatic evolution over the past 10 years. As their industry has changed (meaning shrunk dramatically) they have downsized and diversified.  AG.com, the electronic greeting card division, is now a huge part of the company.  Most of the people working there moved to Cleveland when AG bought their former companies to form AG Interactive.  These folks relocated from places like Seattle, San Francisco and Chicago.  AG recently acquired Recycled Greetings and Papyrus.  But unlike previous acquisitions, AG left those HQ's intact in Chicago and San Francisco and actually moved work to them from Cleveland.  My only point with this is don't rule out Chicago.  AG is following a path much in the same way as TRW did when it downgraded its HQ before moving altogether.  If I were to bet I'm thinking AG.com and AG Creative will be moved to Recycled Greetings HQ in Chicago (half the company) and a scaled down HQ (500 or so) moves to a new office building In Chagrin Highlands.

So you're picking a site for your new HQ.  Why do you pick Cleveland proper over Chagrin Highlands or Independence?

 

So you're picking a site for your new HQ. Why do you pick Cleveland proper over Chagrin Highlands or Independence?

 

 

Im not sure you do, but it wasn't even in their top 4 choices in Ohio? top 7 overall? For a company that close it doesn't make sense to me. 

 

I am going to write an email to their corporate office and ask them this very question. Maybe if enough of us on here do the same we can get some answers.

What will happen to Brooklyn if they leave? Will it create a lot of problems for the city?

One positive for the city of Cleveland of them moving to Chagrin Highlands is that they'd get 50% of the local income taxes paid through the JEDD, correct?  That would be more than the 0% they get now.

I find it ironic that they felt the need to destroy the profitable drive in theatre before making this decision.

 

That area of town has the feel of a wasteland.

 

I want the drive in back.

So you're picking a site for your new HQ. Why do you pick Cleveland proper over Chagrin Highlands or Independence?

 

 

If you read the article, you will notice that a goal of selecting the location is to maximize the ability to attract creative talent for the workforce. 

In the Crains article (same line that Eaton used):

 

American Greetings officials said they considered sites in downtown Cleveland but could not find a property that fit the company's needs. The company initially considered more than 15 sites in Ohio and sites in three other states.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101119/FREE/101119650

 

 

In the Crains article (same line that Eaton used):

 

American Greetings officials said they considered sites in downtown Cleveland but could not find a property that fit the company's needs. The company initially considered more than 15 sites in Ohio and sites in three other states.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101119/FREE/101119650

 

 

Wasn't my earlier post acurate?  LOL

In the Crains article (same line that Eaton used):

 

American Greetings officials said they considered sites in downtown Cleveland but could not find a property that fit the company's needs. The company initially considered more than 15 sites in Ohio and sites in three other states.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101119/FREE/101119650

 

 

Wasn't my earlier post acurate?  LOL

 

What, this one?:

"Can we stop!  Seriously.  Put a lock on this before it gets out of hand."

 

I dont understand.... 

Oh you must mean this one:

"This sounds like Eaton - Part Duex!"

:-D

 

In the Crains article (same line that Eaton used):

 

American Greetings officials said they considered sites in downtown Cleveland but could not find a property that fit the company's needs. The company initially considered more than 15 sites in Ohio and sites in three other states.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101119/FREE/101119650

 

 

Wasn't my earlier post acurate?  LOL

 

What, this one?:

"Can we stop!  Seriously.  Put a lock on this before it gets out of hand."

 

I dont understand.... 

Oh you must mean this one:

"This sounds like Eaton - Part Duex!"

;D

 

 

Lawd.  Child I'm going send up a CDM prayer for you!  LOL

If I were to bet I'm thinking AG.com and AG Creative will be moved to Recycled Greetings HQ in Chicago (half the company) and a scaled down HQ (500 or so) moves to a new office building In Chagrin Highlands.

 

That would seem to make the most sense.  I can understand moving the "creative" part somewhere where you think you can recruit better, but I'd also think they would save a lot of money in personnel turnover, direct real estate costs and salary by keeping the more boring parts of the company near Cleveland.

 

From the Crane's article (thanks willyboy!):

 

Mr. McGrath said “significant progress” has been made in the site search. Primary factors in the decision are “operating costs associated with a new or renovated facility, costs associated with any move or relocation, employee recruitment considerations and the enhancement of the company's creative environment and culture,” Mr. McGrath said.

 

Still surprises me a little that downtown Cleveland didn't make the final cut if creative talent recruitment is a consideration.  I know it's not Chicago, but it's not Independence or Brecksville either.  The Rosetta relocation seemed to demonstrate that.

In the Crains article (same line that Eaton used):

 

American Greetings officials said they considered sites in downtown Cleveland but could not find a property that fit the company's needs. The company initially considered more than 15 sites in Ohio and sites in three other states.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101119/FREE/101119650

 

 

I smelled Eaton the moment I read that. Of course they couldn't find an appropriate property downtown -- you can't build a sprawling, golfcourse-like campus there. And we all know how young, creative people prefer office campuses over urban settings! :roll: Just ask the old white men running these companies!

 

What a contrast to Hallmark and their publicly engaging urban setting in Kansas City called Crown Center....

http://www.crowncenter.com/Index.asp

No wonder Hallmark is kicking AG's ass. A couple of photos of Crown center....

 

 

1. If it's inevitable (as it looks) that AG is moving out of Brooklyn, why isn't Cleveland marketing land ANYWHERE for it and offering lower taxes or something for 20 years? There is PLENTY of land on Euclid Ave.

 

2. If AG moves out of Brooklyn, Brooklyn is in HUGE trouble. They're already in trouble. AG increases local business traffic as well as contributing a significant portion of Brooklyn's tax revenue.

For companies who are looking for more of a "campus" feel, would midtown be able to suit there needs? maybe we just need a bunch of "campus" companies in midtown along euclid

Cleveland needs to do everything possible to try to keep American Greetings here. There has to be a way, even if it means building a lame "campus" headquarters in Midtown.

So you're picking a site for your new HQ.  Why do you pick Cleveland proper over Chagrin Highlands or Independence?

 

 

If you read the article, you will notice that a goal of selecting the location is to maximize the ability to attract creative talent for the workforce. 

 

The eastern suburbs are more desirable, especially for creative/arts people relocating from other areas. Downtown is getting better but it's not there yet. (imo)

I'm going to advise everyone to write to American Greetings to reconsider. There are so many opportunities in Cleveland proper and I'm sure the city is willing to make some nice deals with the company to get them to move to Cleveland. Also write to the mayor.

So you're picking a site for your new HQ.  Why do you pick Cleveland proper over Chagrin Highlands or Independence?

 

 

If you read the article, you will notice that a goal of selecting the location is to maximize the ability to attract creative talent for the workforce. 

 

The eastern suburbs are more desirable, especially for creative/arts people relocating from other areas. Downtown is getting better but it's not there yet. (imo)

 

I wouldn't say that.  Young people want to be in the "heart of it all".  Although CH, SH, BW, etc. are lovely communities...the majority of young people don't want to live out there.

 

As the housing table picks up and more conversions and new build pop up...it will dramatically change.

Cleveland needs to do everything possible to try to keep American Greetings here. There has to be a way, even if it means building a lame "campus" headquarters in Midtown.

 

I don't agree.  First of all, AG is not in "Cleveland" right now.  It is a suburban company.  And while I am not in the delusional category of people who think that Midtown is going to look like Michigan Ave. in 5-10 years, I don't want to sacrafice whatever potential it does have to keep a company which operates in a dwindling business category.

 

I think AG will stay.  They are just trying to leverage the best deal possible.

What's kind of frustrating is that there's no reason why a "campus" can't also fit well in an urban setting.  There's a lot of room between a conventional office tower and a sprawly 3 story suburban office building with a giant set back and a fake pond.  The Clinic seems to be moving in this middle ground direction (I hope), but we haven't seen any real good corporate examples of this yet in Cleveland.  Instead we get that Applied Industrial spaceship garbage and Eaton in the Chagrin Highlands.

I would prefer if all of the businesses who wanted "campuses" where in midtown instead of the suburbs. I mean you can have your office towers in downtown, drive through midtown where all the "campus" offices are, and then get to University Circle where all the Hospitals and cultural institutions are. Id take the "campuses" if they where Cleveland over having them in the suburbs. And just saying, the campuses would look better then what is there now.

 

And I dont mind the Applied Industrial Tech building. I rather we have it the beachwood or mentor

As shown in the pictures I posted on the previous page, you can have an urban campus near downtown, as competitor Hallmark has done. And that campus has all sorts of public engagement activities, including a hands-on kids museum, design/arts classes and studios for the public, etc.

 

But if AG just wants to build the equivalent of a pretty fortress campus, or worse, the equivalent of a nursing home for the company where it will spend its waning days in irrelevance, that AG's call. But I hope some community doesn't lavish AG with a shitload of taxpayer benefits on them for a site that says they don't expect to survive much longer.

I would prefer if all of the businesses who wanted "campuses" where in midtown instead of the suburbs. I mean you can have your office towers in downtown, drive through midtown where all the "campus" offices are, and then get to University Circle where all the Hospitals and cultural institutions are. Id take the "campuses" if they where Cleveland over having them in the suburbs. And just saying, the campuses would look better then what is there now.

 

And I dont mind the Applied Industrial Tech building. I rather we have it the beachwood or mentor

 

As a young professional, I would prefer my business not be located in Midtown. Seriously, what is this 'Midtown' other than words and a few isolated placards along the roadside? There's nothing there. What am I going to eat? Where am I going to park? The need for a campus is even more compelling if you want to locate it there, because the surrounding area offers almost nothing.

 

If they want to bulldoze a huge area and put up a campus (or use any of the vast open spaces on Chester/Euclid), that's great, please, do so. The city should make it virtually free for them to do so. Because that area ranks about as low in desirability as I can imagine. Someone has to go first, but there is no reason for AG to feel like that's a good idea without a seriously big carrot.