I understand the mixed feelings right now 

But you can’t deny that Haslam is all-in on trying to get the Browns to the Super Bowl and that their chances of getting there just increased significantly.  
 

 

 

Edited March 18, 20223 yr by CleveFan
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20 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I understand the mixed feelings right now 

But you can’t deny that Haslam is all-in on trying to get the Browns to the Super Bowl and that their chances of getting there just increased significantly.  
 

 

 

The AFC is going to be a pure hot mess of entertainment. There are so many potentially great teams.

29 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I understand the mixed feelings right now 

But you can’t deny that Haslam is all-in on trying to get the Browns to the Super Bowl and that their chances of getting there just increased significantly.  
 

 

 

Let's see what other criminals and degenerates Haslem will bring to his team.  In Haslem's mind, it obviously doesn't matter.  As of today, I don't want anything do with them.  I won't have anything to do with them until both pathetic excuses for individuals are gone.  

For some insight - I don't know the information precisely, but the Browns FO was privy to evidence presented by the defense to prosecutors, which changed their initial thoughts on Watson. 

 

And I'll echo this again. I know Andrew Berry, and we became friends with him during his first stint in Cleveland when my wife worked for the Browns. My trust in him as a high character individual is marrow deep. It morally doesn't make sense to me right now, but I trust that he knows more than the rest of us. 

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Sickening

While it significantly improves the Browns short term, you figure he is going to be suspended for at least 4 games next year. I can't see anything less than what Rothlisberger had a few years back. So there better be a more than capable backup to fill in for that period, otherwise the team is going to be digging themselves a hole. 4 games can certainly be overcome with the right roster, good health and chemistry, but it is it much more than that, it would pose problems to compete in 2022.  Could the league suspend him for 8 games or longer? If that is the case, then what do you do?

4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

While it significantly improves the Browns short term, you figure he is going to be suspended for at least 4 games next year. I can't see anything less than what Rothlisberger had a few years back. So there better be a more than capable backup to fill in for that period, otherwise the team is going to be digging themselves a hole. 4 games can certainly be overcome with the right roster, good health and chemistry, but it is it much more than that, it would pose problems to compete in 2022.  Could the league suspend him for 8 games or longer? If that is the case, then what do you do?

 

Ultimately I agree, but ... Hard to suspend a guy who did close to what Robert Kraft was accused of doing

1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

 

Ultimately I agree, but ... Hard to suspend a guy who did close to what Robert Kraft was accused of doing

I see a couple big differences, right, wrong or indifferent. 1) Kraft was an owner vs Watson a player. No matter what the rhetoric may be, it is hard to suspend an owner but much easier to hold the player to different standards.

2) Rothlisberger is a good example as he was never convicted criminally of anything (although the evidence of his transgressions was clearly much more). Even Brady's deflategate scandal had a suspension even though he was cleared in court because it was conduct detrimental to league image. 

 

This falls somewhere between the Brady incident and Kareem Hunt in my opinion. I think Rothlisberger provides the best precedent but we do not know. 

 

I do feel that reading through the history, it seems like Watson got a raw deal in the matter but of course it is all about protecting the shield from the league perspective. Facts don't really matter in that case.

44 years a fan- my whole life.  Made it through the last lousy 23 seasons.  Through 1-31.  It turns out there was no light at the end of that tunnel.  I was a fan for 23 years too long.

So the big question I have is how much trade value do the Browns get for Baker?  Is he worth first round draft capital or more along the lines of a Garrapolo type trade of multiple 3rd and 4th

What do we know happened with Watson and those women? I doubt any of us know yet. Were the allegations legit? Was it a shakedown as Watson's attorney counters? I don't know, so I will wait until I see it before I form personal opinions of Watson. All opinions should be earned.

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

What do we know happened with Watson and those women? I doubt any of us know yet. Were the allegations legit? Was it a shakedown as Watson's attorney counters? I don't know, so I will wait until I see it before I form personal opinions of Watson. All opinions should be earned.

I mean, 22 accusations shows a pattern.  

5 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I mean, 22 accusations shows a pattern.  

 

If this didn't stop us from electing the leader of the free world....

 

Browns fans won't care if he delivers.  

Roethlisberger raped two women and has two rings.

 

Watson committed a variety of sexual assaults on 22 women. That's worth, what, 5 rings?

 

Shameful day for the city.

I’m sickened by this move. The NFL is a sick place.

55 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I mean, 22 accusations shows a pattern.  

 

Yes it does.  Also, I find it highly unlikely that 22 women who don't know each other would be able to coordinate a conspiracy to defraud a celebrity like this without at least one of them deciding it would be easier and more profitable to sell out the others with proof that they're all lying.  Also, the woman in the SI article, who is not one of the people suing, has corroboration from others that she talked about her experience with Deshaun well before this all became public.

52 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

If this didn't stop us from electing the leader of the free world....

 

Browns fans won't care if he delivers.  

 

Sadly, bottom line is that enough of them won't that the Browns see it as worth the risk, and the hit.

54 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

If this didn't stop us from electing the leader of the free world....

 

Browns fans won't care if he delivers.  

Trump's money made a lot of things go away.  So can $230 million.

6 minutes ago, X said:

 

Yes it does.  Also, I find it highly unlikely that 22 women who don't know each other would be able to coordinate a conspiracy to defraud a celebrity like this without at least one of them deciding it would be easier and more profitable to sell out the others with proof that they're all lying.  Also, the woman in the SI article, who is not one of the people suing, has corroboration from others that she talked about her experience with Deshaun well before this all became public.

 

They are all represented by the same attorney.

So assuming Keenum has to start the first 4 to 5 games next year, what do you think the Browns record will be after the first quarter of the season? 
 

Then, assuming Watson is clear to play, is he a difference make a right away especially after not seeing any game action in two years?

31 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

They are all represented by the same attorney.

 

The woman in the SI article is not, unless that has changed since the article was written.

28 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

They are all represented by the same attorney.

The woman interviewed in the Sports Illustrated article is not one of the ones with that attorney and she is represented by another attorney.

Does it even matter who is representing them?

 

If even 21 are lying does it make a difference? 

This says attorney Tony Buzbee has brought 22 lawsuits but I don't see where they're from 22 different people so there may be another attorney.

https://www.totalprosports.com/2021/04/19/deshaun-watsons-lawyer-drops-statement-says-they-have-evidence-2-accusers-are-just-trying-to-extort-money/

 

In other Browns news...

 

 

Very good that there are TWO very interested teams. 

Hopefully Mayfield finds success elsewhere.  I guess I don't care anymore what the Browns get for him.

59 minutes ago, KJP said:

This says attorney Tony Buzbee has brought 22 lawsuits but I don't see where they're from 22 different people so there may be another attorney.

https://www.totalprosports.com/2021/04/19/deshaun-watsons-lawyer-drops-statement-says-they-have-evidence-2-accusers-are-just-trying-to-extort-money/

 

In other Browns news...

 

 

What are they speculating the value is for Baker in the market. If he commands a number 1 draft pick, it really blunts what the browns gave up in draft capital for Watson. 

 

2 hours ago, X said:

Hopefully Mayfield finds success elsewhere.  I guess I don't care anymore what the Browns get for him.

I would actually not be surprised if Baker does have a lot of success with another team - I think he’s going to have a rebound in his career if he’s fully healthy and can stay that way.  I think the Browns could’ve been a contender in the AFC with him - but I don’t know if he would’ve been able to get us all the way to the Super Bowl. We’ll never know…

 

As for giving up my life long love for the Cleveland Browns because of any one man - I’ll be completely honest  - my heart can’t do it. 

As to the Watson allegations- admittedly,  anyone would be disgusted by a man that would sexually assault  a woman.  The truth is that we don’t really know the details of what actually led to the alleged misconduct. . It’s my understanding that the complaints all concern behaviors occurring during massage appointments over a one year period. A Texas grand jury declined any criminal charges. But I’m not here to defend Watson.  I have a great conflict of emotions about all of this. 
 

But the point I wanted to make was is that I’ve always rooted most for the name “Cleveland” on the uniform - not the individual players.  There’ve been certain guys I’ve become fans of - but if they wound up on another team - I rooted against them if they later played against a Cleveland team.  
 

In my heart, I won’t be able to just stop rooting for the Cleveland football team - because of the city it represents - not the athletes who happen to wear our jersey. 

There have been other men that I may not have liked as human beings who have played for Cleveland - or owned teams here - but I’ve always felt a personal loyalty to those teams that represent the great city of Cleveland. Probably always will. 

17 hours ago, GISguy said:

5 year/$230M and a boatload of picks

 

 

Congrats to Watson for getting that kind of money.  Happy to hear that Haslam is willing to open his checkbook to that extent, even if I don't agree with his choice of where to spend.

 

But those picks -- ouch -- what are the long-term consequences of giving up so much to Houston?!?  Well, we will get to find out.

"As to the Watson allegations- admittedly,  anyone would be disgusted by a man that would sexually assault  a woman"

 

Evidently that's not the case if your last name is Haslem. They can file it under "boys will boys" or compartmentalize the man from the player... but in the end they are welcoming a serial sex offender/rapist with a quarter billion.

 

And considering their alliance and photo ops with Jim Brown, it's pretty clear the Haslems, and many fans, just don't give a firey f*ck about violence against women. 

 

On 3/16/2022 at 10:21 AM, YABO713 said:

Confirmed with my friend. 

 

Berry and Stefanski want no part for moral reasons. 

 

Haslam wants a better QB. 

16 hours ago, YABO713 said:

And I'll echo this again. I know Andrew Berry, and we became friends with him during his first stint in Cleveland when my wife worked for the Browns. My trust in him as a high character individual is marrow deep. It morally doesn't make sense to me right now, but I trust that he knows more than the rest of us. 

 

Certainly we do not know as much as Berry right now.  But from what you've told us so far, it looks like he was overruled by Haslam.

So there goes the front office.

The NFL may have to implement a new rule about giving up first round picks in consecutive years. Hopefully the Browns will get at least one first round pick for Baker.

12 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

The NFL may have to implement a new rule about giving up first round picks in consecutive years. Hopefully the Browns will get at least one first round pick for Baker.

It worked for the Rams

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/30/rams-set-to-go-seven-straight-years-without-a-first-round-draft-pick/

9 hours ago, CleveFan said:

But the point I wanted to make was is that I’ve always rooted most for the name “Cleveland” on the uniform - not the individual players.  There’ve been certain guys I’ve become fans of - but if they wound up on another team - I rooted against them if they later played against a Cleveland team.  

 

In my heart, I won’t be able to just stop rooting for the Cleveland football team - because of the city it represents - not the athletes who happen to wear our jersey. 

There have been other men that I may not have liked as human beings who have played for Cleveland - or owned teams here - but I’ve always felt a personal loyalty to those teams that represent the great city of Cleveland. Probably always will. 

 

That's a fair pov, but Watson is going to be inescapable while you're watching the Browns.  He'll be there- every offensive play.  He'll be the most visible face of the Cleveland Browns off the field.  He'll be the player who's name is used as a stand-in for the Browns in headlines.  We've made him the second highest paid player in the NFL, and guaranteed him the most money ever to a player.

 

Also, we're sending away the long term future of our team to make this run with Watson.  The lack of 1st round draft picks means we won't be bringing in young, top flight talent while they're still cheap.  And Watson's cap hit means we're going to have to shed our veterans over the next few years.  Just from a football perspective, I really wish we'd try to build a perennially competitive team.  Not a one and done Superbowl lunge.

I get that people are mad about Deshaun signing, and I'm not thrilled personally... but why haven't we called for Jim Brown's statue to be torn down? 

I suppose we need to keep Jim Brown's on-field and off-field actions separated. He did help the Browns win a championship. If Deshaun does the same, they will be erecting a statue of him.

I don't know the details, but weren't the Jim Brown allegations of violence against women after his NFL career ended? 

2 hours ago, X said:

Just from a football perspective, I really wish we'd try to build a perennially competitive team.  Not a one and done Superbowl lunge.

 

Yes, this times a thousand. That is why I thought they should be giving Baker another year. It's all about consistency and gradual improvement. Terry Pluto's column today says this move reeks of desperation and I couldn't agree more.

53 minutes ago, DO_Summers said:

I don't know the details, but weren't the Jim Brown allegations of violence against women after his NFL career ended? 

 

This is the rap sheet of the man we give a standing ovation to at every home game, and who has a statue in his honor outside of the stadium. It includes two criminal convictions. As Ken Carmen said, just because people want certain bad-a$$ players to play for their team doesn't mean they want them raising their kids.

 

 

Ok @KJP, that clearly seems to show a pattern 🥺  by Brown.

 

Do we / will we ever know if the Watson contract has legal fence posts built into it if his poor behavior continues/ escalates?  

2 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Yes, this times a thousand. That is why I thought they should be giving Baker another year. It's all about consistency and gradual improvement. Terry Pluto's column today says this move reeks of desperation and I couldn't agree more.

Moves made out of desperation almost always end up working out very badly for the teams making them.  I am sick and tired that moves are being dictated by the person who should not be making them.  If indeed Haslem overruled the coach and general manager, then he should be held accountable.  Unfortunately, that is never the case.  It will be the coach and general manager will be blamed and get fired when things fall apart. 

Talked with my buddy. 

 

Supposedly Haslam deferred to the FO. They were satisfied with the evidence shown to them in their closed door meetings. 

I sure am looking forward to seeing that exculpatory evidence myself, then!

The only evidence I've seen so far is on the field and how other players respond to him. Example...

 

And

 

More 

It's possible that Watson committed these acts, and that some of the women decided they wanted to profit off of it.  That doesn't clear Watson, though.

2 hours ago, X said:

It's possible that Watson committed these acts, and that some of the women decided they wanted to profit off of it.  That doesn't clear Watson, though.

Old "habits" are hard to break.  What sort of self-inflected mess will the Browns be in should Watson return to his old ways here?

Nothing wrong with seeking compensation for being sexually harassed or abused. I certainly would want him to pay, literally, for his violation and my pain and suffering.

 

And the whole thing is messy. Perhaps there were a few consensual sexual encounters thrown in there; hell, I'm sure Cosby, Weinstein and Spacey have a few charlatans among their victims. 

 

Doesn't exonerate Jimmy and Dee from the common sense that, at the least, we probably shouldn't give this predator a quarter billion dollars. Can you imagine this turd volunteering at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center?

 

I guess the Cleveland Hope Exchange it is.

Edited March 20, 20223 yr by TBideon