2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I've been wrong before. But I don't see a scenario where Watson gets suspended more than 6 games. 

 

FWIW - even if he is, a health Brisett is better than the hurt Baker we had last year. And Baker will continue to have injuries because of how he plays. The reason he hurt his shoulder is because he threw himself at a defender after an INT. Some people like that edge to him, but it ultimately is a disservice to his team. 

 

Remember the QB-filled 2018 draft and no one really knew which one should go 1st?  It went Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen in the top 10 and Lamar Jackson closed out the 1st round.

 

I know a lot of people didn't like Mayfield #1 because of his short stature and the way he plays.  The Browns, in four years, turned him from a #1 overall pick to a conditional 5th rounder.  Incredible asset management.  Almost as good as drafting a 28-year old quarterback in the 1st round.

4 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I've been wrong before. But I don't see a scenario where Watson gets suspended more than 6 games. 

 

FWIW - even if he is, a health Brisett is better than the hurt Baker we had last year. And Baker will continue to have injuries because of how he plays. The reason he hurt his shoulder is because he threw himself at a defender after an INT. Some people like that edge to him, but it ultimately is a disservice to his team. 

 

You could certainly be right, too.  You have more of an understanding of the inner workings of the NFL than me, but everything out there in the media makes the NFL seem pretty adamant about at least a year.  But maybe that's all smoke and mirrors.

11 minutes ago, X said:

 

Have they upgraded though?  Good chance Watson doesn't play this year.  Then he comes back with 2 years of rust.  How he will perform after that is anyone's guess.  But we'll be paying him like a GOAT.

On paper, yes. He is a big upgrade. To your point, anything can happen. A healthy Watson is a top 5-10 QB. An injured Watson or suspended Watson of course is not. We do not know what will happen. Suspensions aside, Watson could blow his knee out anytime next year or the year after.  Anything can happen of course, but the known fact is that it is highly likely that Watson will need to serve some type of suspension this year. 

 

I do not doubt that Watson after a 6-8 game suspension and sitting out last year will not have some rust to shake off. I think the Browns are hoping to get in the playoffs and then have him shine at that point in 2022. 

12 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Remember the QB-filled 2018 draft and no one really knew which one should go 1st?  It went Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen in the top 10 and Lamar Jackson closed out the 1st round.

 

I know a lot of people didn't like Mayfield #1 because of his short stature and the way he plays.  The Browns, in four years, turned him from a #1 overall pick to a conditional 5th rounder.  Incredible asset management.  Almost as good as drafting a 28-year old quarterback in the 1st round.

 

It wasn't this admin that drafted him. And to give you some perspective as to what talent evaluators think of him, there are 10ish teams with sub-standard QB rooms. We had top pay an organization to take on only half of his remaining rookie deal. The recipient of that trade happened to be an organization in chaos, who has players actively telling people not to come to Carolina and an inexperienced head coach that lost his locker room early. 

 

My college roommate is the Southeast area scout for the Bears - his text to me was "Ruhle turned out to be the useful idiot."

 

My friend from high school is the assistant director of player personnel for one of the teams in CA. His texted to our group chat "LMAO, good for you AB - the Panthers are such a dumpster fire."

And look, I liked Baker - and I know he gave his all. But he is who he is, and unfortunately a 6' QB who will always play aggressive is going to continue to have injury problems in the league. 

13 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

I know a lot of people didn't like Mayfield #1 because of his short stature and the way he plays.  The Browns, in four years, turned him from a #1 overall pick to a conditional 5th rounder.  Incredible asset management.  Almost as good as drafting a 28-year old quarterback in the 1st round.

Definitely agree the Browns panicked and mismanaged him. His is not Joe Flacco, but he is a capable NFL starter. With the talent they have around them, they are a serious contender. Like Tennessee with Tannenhill. Will he be the difference maker, no, but there are many different ways to skin a cat. I think Haslems showed continued impatience in their management style and they certainly created this mess.   Watson is certainly better, but at what cost. Now, I am not privy to locker room conversations and if Baker was hated by his teammates, then that is a different story, but I have not necessarily heard that yet. 

 

Look at healthy Baker in 2020. He was practically a top 10 QB in the league that year. You do not need to discard him, just add more resources, which they did by beefing up the O line. It did not pay dividends in 2021 but could have in 2022.

 

I also think Baker bears some of the blame into how this turned out though too. 1) he could have signed a long term deal after year 3 but he held out for top 5 money at the time. Even if the Browns chose to go another way in 2022 and traded for Watson, there would have been many more suitors for Baker because he would have a few years left on his contract at that point instead of a 1 and done year at top money (If he puts up big numbers, he demands a bigger deal after 1 year or he walks or if he falls flat, he sets the acquiring team back an extra year if they were banking on him for a playoff run).  2) Baker was initially refusing to compromise off his salary, which he ultimately did. That closed some potential doors for him earlier in the process. 3) Baker could have put on a better public face and tried to salvage something in Cleveland. If he would have presented himself as the person to step in if/When Watson is suspended, and he was performing really well, it is hard to make a switch mid season to Watson at that point. Baker wins because he leads the Browns to a successful season and gets big money from a team as the most coveted free agent in the offseason. Instead he chose to burn the bridge. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I've been wrong before. But I don't see a scenario where Watson gets suspended more than 6 games. 

 

FWIW - even if he is, a health Brisett is better than the hurt Baker we had last year. And Baker will continue to have injuries because of how he plays. The reason he hurt his shoulder is because he threw himself at a defender after an INT. Some people like that edge to him, but it ultimately is a disservice to his team. 

you may be able to offer a little insight here. I keep coming back to the Watson contract structure and how he would only earn $1 million this year and it was done that way because of the risk of suspension.  Given that the team is built to win in 2022, it did not necessarily make the most sense to the team to structure Watson's contract in the backloaded fashion. 

 

Just playing this out, even assuming Watson would get suspended by the league for all of 2022, it would still be in his best interest to take this to Federal Court, ala Tom Brady, to fight the suspension. At minimum, he would get a stay of the suspension for 2022 and allow him to play the 2022 year. yes, there would be a cloud over him during the season but he gets to play on a loaded team without a 1.5-2 year layoff.  

 

IMO, he would be better playing this year and challenging a suspension in court vs sitting out even 6-8 games and waiting for next year to make the full playoff push for the Browns. The team will be a year older next year and so will Watson. If I were him, I would be gaming to play in 2022 and challenging in Court, which is why it would have made more sense on the Browns to not have structured the contract the way they did. 

 

 

Another thing that irks me is the Browns traded multiple first-round picks, including 2023, which could be a high one if the Browns don't have Watson for 2022.

3 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Another thing that irks me is the Browns traded multiple first-round picks, including 2023, which could be a high one if the Browns don't have Watson for 2022.

 

I can't stress this enough. A healthy Browns team goes to the playoffs, even without Watson. A healthy Browns team with Watson has Super Bowl level talent

Yeah, hopefully he got the oral rape out of his system.

40 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Definitely agree the Browns panicked and mismanaged him. His is not Joe Flacco, but he is a capable NFL starter. With the talent they have around them, they are a serious contender. Like Tennessee with Tannenhill. Will he be the difference maker, no, but there are many different ways to skin a cat.

Hard disagree. Look at the Rams and what they spent to get Goff, and then what they spent to get Stafford and win the whole thing.

So Josina Anderson is currently reporting that family members of the accusers provided testimony in favor of Deshaun Watson at the hearing, including the son of one of the accusers, who claims his mother spoke highly of Deshaun Watson after the instance in question, and only changed her opinion after hearing of the law suits. 

On 7/7/2022 at 12:47 PM, YABO713 said:

So Josina Anderson is currently reporting that family members of the accusers provided testimony in favor of Deshaun Watson at the hearing, including the son of one of the accusers, who claims his mother spoke highly of Deshaun Watson after the instance in question, and only changed her opinion after hearing of the law suits. 

 

Quote

Reported Deshaun Watson accuser, whose son was interviewed by NFL, not among cases presented by league or represented by Tony Buzbee

By Dan Labbe, cleveland.com

 

------

 

Tony Buzbee, the attorney who filed the civil lawsuits against Watson and now the Houston Texans, said in a statement tweeted by Anderson none of his clients had a son questioned by the NFL.

 

“It has been reported that 12 alleged victims spoke to the NFL,” Buzbee wrote in the statement. “I have confirmed that 10 of those women were my clients. None of my clients had a son questioned by the NFL. As I’ve said, there were several women who called my office wanting to sue Watson that I decided, based on my trial experience, not to represent. I know that at least one of those women, who I declined to represent, spoke to the NFL and also gave a statement to the police. That’s all I know on that front.”

 

In short, it appears the woman whose son was interviewed, as reported by Anderson, was not one of the five cases the NFL presented to Robinson and, according to Buzbee’s statement, was not among the plaintiffs he has represented.

 

Sounds about right 

 

Yeah, this is Buzbee and McNair doing a deal to get millions from the Texans' insurance company. They came to a settlement VERY quickly. Keep an eye on both men's offshore financial accounts...

 

 

21 hours ago, KJP said:

Yeah, this is Buzbee and McNair doing a deal to get millions from the Texans' insurance company. They came to a settlement VERY quickly. Keep an eye on both men's offshore financial accounts...

 

 

 

Who's saying the Texans aren't guilty of anything.  They almost certainly are, and should be punished for their part in this.  Also, anyone believe the Browns won't be doing the same thing for Watson once the heat is off?

 

15 minutes ago, X said:

Also, anyone believe the Browns won't be doing the same thing for Watson once the heat is off?

 

OK,  i'll challenge you on this one. Watson's new contract reportedly has built in language in regards to future violations of certain types of behavior. Why would the Browns want to give Watson a legal out by facilitating these same behaviors? 

4 hours ago, X said:

 

Who's saying the Texans aren't guilty of anything.  They almost certainly are, and should be punished for their part in this.  Also, anyone believe the Browns won't be doing the same thing for Watson once the heat is off?

 

 

The Texans. They made no admission of guilt. I don't buy it, but let's be honest. The Texans is where the money is and Buzbee is an ambulance chaser. He's buddies with McNair. And considering how quickly the Texans caved makes me suspicious.

7 hours ago, KJP said:

 

The Texans. They made no admission of guilt. I don't buy it, but let's be honest. The Texans is where the money is and Buzbee is an ambulance chaser. He's buddies with McNair. And considering how quickly the Texans caved makes me suspicious.

 

You can't chase an ambulance unless somebody got hurt.

11 hours ago, DO_Summers said:

OK,  i'll challenge you on this one. Watson's new contract reportedly has built in language in regards to future violations of certain types of behavior. Why would the Browns want to give Watson a legal out by facilitating these same behaviors? 

 

Why did the Texans do it?

1 hour ago, X said:

 

Why did the Texans do it?

This is certainly beyond my expertise.  Watson's original contract with the Texans was written in 2017. A lot has changed in the NFL over the past five years. Here is what Terry Pluto had to say. 

I have some land to sell Jimmy down in Florida, "as is".  I swear it's buildable.  You're practically robbing ME, Jimmy!

13 hours ago, X said:

 

You can't chase an ambulance unless somebody got hurt.

 

Yes, because everyone who has claimed injury, especially the soft tissue kind, did so honestly.

 

I'm still looking for the proven angel in this whole sorted matter and have yet to find one.

On 7/17/2022 at 9:25 AM, X said:

 

Who's saying the Texans aren't guilty of anything.  They almost certainly are, and should be punished for their part in this.  Also, anyone believe the Browns won't be doing the same thing for Watson once the heat is off?

 

 

58 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, because everyone who has claimed injury, especially the soft tissue kind, did so honestly.

 

I'm still looking for the proven angel in this whole sorted matter and have yet to find one.

Really, what role did the Texans truly have in this? Watson got his own massage therapists, he paid for them himself. 

When Watson gets, sued everyone who touches him gets sued, hence the Texans, and they will have to pay to defend themselves no matter if they are guilty or not, it will still cost the Texans 10s of thousands to defend. It is easier to settle in that case does not mean they did anything wrong, just send it to insurance and have them deal with the issue. 

 

The Texans obviously touched Watson so they were sued. Who knows if a jury would find some potential liability on the Texas if Watson said that he used Texans facilities for massages, etc. So I can see where there could be some liability there.

27 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

Really, what role did the Texans truly have in this? Watson got his own massage therapists, he paid for them himself. 

When Watson gets, sued everyone who touches him gets sued, hence the Texans, and they will have to pay to defend themselves no matter if they are guilty or not, it will still cost the Texans 10s of thousands to defend. It is easier to settle in that case does not mean they did anything wrong, just send it to insurance and have them deal with the issue. 

 

The Texans obviously touched Watson so they were sued. Who knows if a jury would find some potential liability on the Texas if Watson said that he used Texans facilities for massages, etc. So I can see where there could be some liability there.

The Texans provided him with a hotel room and NDA's.  What more do you want in order to say they were involved?

22 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

Really, what role did the Texans truly have in this? Watson got his own massage therapists, he paid for them himself. 

When Watson gets, sued everyone who touches him gets sued, hence the Texans, and they will have to pay to defend themselves no matter if they are guilty or not, it will still cost the Texans 10s of thousands to defend. It is easier to settle in that case does not mean they did anything wrong, just send it to insurance and have them deal with the issue. 

 

The Texans obviously touched Watson so they were sued. Who knows if a jury would find some potential liability on the Texas if Watson said that he used Texans facilities for massages, etc. So I can see where there could be some liability there.

Read this -- it seems that there were some people in the Texans organization who were helping him and had some idea of what was going on.  A non-disclosure agreement was left in his locker that he proceeded to use.  That doesn't mean that it was authorized by the top of the organization, but agents of the organization at best looked the other way and at worst enabled his efforts to get sex with his massages. It was more than just "he was employed by the Texans and so that's why they were sued."

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/08/texans-provided-ndas-facilities-for-watsons-massage-sessions-per-report

 

 

Too soon?

 

 

the browns signed rosen to a 1yr deal.

 

13 hours ago, mrnyc said:

the browns signed rosen to a 1yr deal.

 

 

Yeah - I hate Browns fans sometimes lol. Had to stay off twitter last night haha. 

 

We just signed a former first round pick, who will join the team only to be a backup for less than half the season, and people are laughing at it? 

One of the best sports Twitter accounts out there.....LOL

 

 

meanwhile — an espn training camp prediction:

 

Camp prediction: The Browns will trade running back D'Ernest Johnson during training camp. Yes, Johnson is coming off a breakout season filling in for Chubb and Hunt and signed a one-year extension with the Browns during the offseason. But Cleveland drafted another running back in Jerome Ford, a fifth-round selection out of Cincinnati, who flashed a versatile skill set during OTAs and minicamp. With second-year playmaker Demetric Felton also returning, the Browns will move Johnson to a more running back-needy team.

 

 

Best drone video ever!

 

 

41 minutes ago, KJP said:

Best drone video ever!

Hey, @KJP  You are absolutely right!  Hey, even Bernie is in the house.  He fired up his time machine.  Things are definitely on the up and up!

41 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

 

Edited July 30, 20222 yr by DO_Summers

The thing I'm most excited about for today, regardless of the outcome, is watching half of the people I know pretend to know more about the facts of the case and the application of law than Sue Robinson

On 6/9/2022 at 4:43 PM, YABO713 said:

 

No I agree and get what you're saying. My gut tells me at least 5-6 of these girls experienced unwelcome sexual contact. My gut also tells me that the Plaintiff's attorneys were very aggressive in recruiting some of the other women, and convinced them to join. 

 

But my gut isn't a reliable metric lol. 

 

Turns out, it is

37 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Turns out, it is

6 games, no fine is about as good as Watson could have hoped for. The writing was on the wall when the player's union came out preemptively saying they wouldn't appeal the results. 

59 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Turns out, it is

To me 6 games feels right. Optics wise, the NFL will likely appeal, but I do not think they win. As a Bengal fan, I was hoping for a longer suspension, but that had nothing to do with the justice of it.  If think the NFL certainly will face criticism on this and of course Watson and the Browns will be seen as villains throughout the national media for the foreseeable future (but the Browns are often treated with disdain by the national media so nothing is new there).   

 

Based on the facts and prior precedent, from the perspective of the arbitrator, 6 games feels right. From a justice perspective, 6 games feels right, it is a significant suspension but keeps in perspective the fact that there were no criminal charges (and to your point a few weeks back, the Browns clearly did their homework). 

 

 

Doesn't this sound like the NFL will appeal? Unless...the NFL just wants this to go away.

 

 

2 minutes ago, KJP said:

Doesn't this sound like the NFL will appeal? Unless...the NFL just wants this to go away.

 

 

 

This appeal is purely for optics. I'm not sure how Goodell, or an appointed NFL attorney, could be better suited to assess a penalty than a universally respected former Federal judge.

And it's the first time they're doing this arbitration approach. So would the NFL undercut this new approach by filing an appeal?

I don't see the NFL challenging given the players will expose the NFL owners and their shortcomings.  I'm certain Bob Kraft does not want to relive his little massage secret! 

 

Also - I swung by training camp with a client this weekend, and for people saying the Browns were hemorrhaging fans - I've never seen a more positive reception to a new player than the one Deshaun Watson received. 

More...

 

16 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Also - I swung by training camp with a client this weekend, and for people saying the Browns were hemorrhaging fans - I've never seen a more positive reception to a new player than the one Deshaun Watson received. 

I mean they’re def not gonna lose the dorks….I mean ardent loyalists who would be willing to go watch training camp

20 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Also - I swung by training camp with a client this weekend, and for people saying the Browns were hemorrhaging fans - I've never seen a more positive reception to a new player than the one Deshaun Watson received. 

 

We're going today.   I expect that.   An embattled player who comes to Cleveland typically becomes a fan favorite early on.   John Rocker, Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield, now DeShaun.   It's our mindset.

4 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I mean they’re def not gonna lose the dorks….I mean ardent loyalists who would be willing to go watch training camp

 

I had a group that went, and our last year I brought my daughter who was almost 3.    She wanted to go, and her mother had already taught her any words she might hear.   This will be her sixth camp, though she will likely pay more attention to the puppy pound.    Between seeing the players up close and the side show, it's great for kids.