EC, you hit the nail on the head. What is most depressing is that even with a new coach, QB, GM they still look exactly the same. Blah! I didn't have enough beer in the house to deal with that game....

 

Edit: Never mind the season that our draft passovers Sanchez and Mantaluga appear to be having.

I didn't have enough beer in the house to deal with that game....

 

I WAS drinking but had to stop, that combined with the game was really pulling me down!

I've got one of Javhid Best, Eric Berry and Taylor Mays square in my sights for next April.

And you guys thought I was nuts when I predicted we'd go 4-12 this season...now that looks optimistic.

I have made it a point to exclude this circus of teams that have had to go through rebuilding processes some 4 times since they have been back---from the original Browns teams/records---Because this stuff is so rotten that it has totally smeared the image of the history of the team in general.

 

With a new name and colors, at least it would not have undermined past Browns teams that were competitive and respectful. Maybe something like "The Cleveland Grays" after the history of that army thing on Huron. Our worst teams of the past were more competitive than this and showed more will.

 

What is amazing to me, the reason for losing has been the same formulas for years...Little to no pass rush, ineffective running the ball...Inability to convert on third down on offense,  while rarely stopping other teams on third and long on defense...receivers dropping passes--easy catches for a so called 'pro' no doubt....often poor pass protection. Quarterbacks making bad throws.... It is the same thing all the time.

 

Even dating back to 1986...Lose to Denver because you could not put pressure on Elway for 98 yards....go into some "prevent "D" not stopping the third and longs...etc.. and hand the game to them on a silver platter. It was even the basic formula of problems then..and we see it now.

 

You would think that even the most inexperienced coach would understand these basic necessary fundamentals  of execution and work on fixing these areas...Yet it always appears to be the same exact problems again and again and again. WHY? I am not always so sure its about talent either...rather than simple fundamental execution.

 

It is all just inexcusable to me. Maybe somehow, this will be the scenario until Cleveland in general, adopts a new identity other than building it around the success of its sports teams...Maybe it is a lesson from the sports gods to tell us that we need to find many other things to get excited about in our city/region than just relying on sports to make us happy....and UNTIL we do we will lose. Now is the time to discover other interests and break the addiction. Honestly, that is how I have dealt with the lack luster performances and it has worked quite well. I don't even think about it, expect much, and so on...It will be when we least expect it, that things will turn around, maybe.

 

Oh well..drawing straws, I guess.

I'm still convinced Mangini will eventually build a decent team. However, I don't expect that to happen this year. What bothers me is the same issues. How many times were the Broncos in third and long situations and the Browns D couldn't not get off the field? EC, you're right, these last ten years have really tarnished the entire history of the organization. Hopefully, they can find the right formula. The NFL is set up for every team to have a chance. If the Cardinals can get to the Super Bowl with a below average defense and nonexistent running game, anything is possible.

^ Yes, I sense Mangini will not put up with slackers and pathetic performances.. I can see it in his expressions when he is fuming inside.  I think there as a time yesterday where they converted 3 3rd and longs in a row... I just shake my head and wonder.. How can that be. Sir2..you are right...  Other teams have made it to the Superbowl with less than perfect teams, etc.. 

 

There were teams like the '85 patriots, for example, who were not as good as some of the Browns teams in the 80's, yet they still snuck into the SP, and we didn't? In other words, we have actually has some better teams than some who have wound up in the SB, while we didn't!

 

I still think Pittsburgh is not a great team..they're good, but not great. I don't say that because I am a Browns fan either. They don't have tremendous talent, but they execute and establish consistency. I really don't think there are any more "great" teams...as you say, all have a pretty good chance.

^Exactly...I always feel like other teams catch breaks at the right time. For example, Jake Delhomme's implosion last year helped the Cardinals tremendously. I swear, if that were the Browns, Jake Delhomme would have the game of his life. You're also right about the Steeelers. Outside of Ben, Troy P and Casey Hampton, the Steelers have decent talent. Hank Poteat, who was abused yesterday by Stokley, was serviceable when he was with the Steelers. I think the most frustrating thing is how deeply Browns fans care about the team. I'm not taking anything from the Cardinals, but that franchise has been poorly run for decades and they got to the Super Bowl. However, the Browns never seem to have that season were everything goes right. For that matter, none of our teams have seasons like the Cardinals or the Marlins of a few years ago.

EC, you hit the nail on the head. What is most depressing is that even with a new coach, QB, GM they still look exactly the same. Blah! I didn't have enough beer in the house to deal with that game....

 

Edit: Never mind the season that our draft passovers Sanchez and Mantaluga appear to be having.

 

yeah, and watching the jets games is really bringing that last remark home. sanchez looks good. real good so far. i even had a jets fan thank me for getting them that guy. ugh, i may have to revise my 6-10 season prediction back down to my original 3-13 guess.

 

 

Even more depressing is the fact the 3 most winnable games, besides Detroit are the last three of the season.

 

It's going to be a long year. Unless this thing turns around I predict blacked out games next year.

 

However, the Browns never seem to have that season were everything goes right. For that matter, none of our teams have seasons like the Cardinals or the Marlins of a few years ago.

 

1980 and 1986 were seasons like that, just up until the end.

Funny you mention the 86' season....

 

Below is an e-mail I wrote yesterday...

 

"I think that this 10 year anniversary is a big deal. They are

dangerously

close to losing the fans for good.There is an entire generation of

Browns

fans who now have no memory of the browns as a winning team. Hell I am

31

and my memories are that of an 8 year old watching the 86 playoffs.I

know

they were the playoffs up until 91 or so, but I don't remember those

teams

very well.  The older fans are pretty much disgusted. I know I am. The

NFL

is set up for parity. There is no reason one team should be bad for so

long."

I think i'm going to join the KJP bandwagon.  I see no changes.  All this talk about "fixing" this or that should have taken place in the off season and pre season!

Don't worry I will waste my Sunday afternoons and give you updates on how watching the games feels. Barring a miracle I would expect it to be pretty bad.

What a fantastic effort out there today! Funny how other teams change coaches, plans, players in a year and have respectable performances, seem to move forward except this one. This will never change unless fans stop rewarding failure and bad management from the top to the bottom. Oh MY!.... how this team since '99 has destroyed the Browns legacy of a proud/respectable overall history. And we used to think the mediocre 8-8, 6-8, and 5-11 teams were bad! It would not surprise me if this team went 0-16 and did not score an offensive touchdown all year. This is so unfair to the original Browns records and traditions. Who the hell...or better yet.. WHAT the hell is this? I don't think I could make a team play this poorly if I stayed up all night studying for it!

That makes no sense.  Its not as though Lerner is not willing to pay whatever money is necessary to build the team.  Mangini cannot help inheriting all of these players, including those 2 QB's.  Believe me, it can be worse if you were a Bengals fan.

Bengals just knocked off the Steelers and show some promise...Browns and promise? not so much

Just when you think it can't get any worse... we go to Baltimore and play like a bunch of 10-year-olds.  Seriously, I tackled better during 6th grade flag football!

That makes no sense.  Its not as though Lerner is not willing to pay whatever money is necessary to build the team.  Mangini cannot help inheriting all of these players, including those 2 QB's.  Believe me, it can be worse if you were a Bengals fan.

 

Its not all about spending a lot of money.. Its HOW you spend it... and sure, Lerner has lots of money, but has no interest in this team or how to spend it on getting people in here who know what they're doing. Why should he? He can still get all the suckers to go to the games and still make out with a far less than average product. That horrible performance, no matter what team you inherit has no business being in such a league. Look how long Romero and company had and the results were always the same lackluster performances. No excuses whatsoever for this, and that makes perfect sense.

 

Money won't always fix it alone.. you have to be involved with your team at some point and not simply say "Hey..here's a blank check...now go fix this for me!" That is how he operates and it does not exude leadership from the top. Learn from the Rooney family. As much as I am no Steelers fan, their ownership is involved with the team..and they have managed to win with good talent and a couple standouts...not great talent. We have had enough tools to be at least a 9-7 caliber team the last few years, but bad coaching, bad ownership that is not involved showing no leadership/motivation has not helped the cause.

Yeah, then why did it take the Rooneys 40 years to figure it out?

^ What are you talking about? In those 40 years they've achieved a lot and remained consistent. I'd trade their record in the last 40 years for ours any day, and this is not to say I think they always have the greatest talent on the field, because they don't. But, they're involved with the team. I'm not even going to entertain a discussion on this with such an inane point, or if you're insinuating that the Browns are under great ownership. I dislike the Steelers as much as any hard core Browns fan, but don't alter the facts to fit the opinions. But go ahead... you can have the last word. I'll just keep telling myself what a great expansion organization we have that has managed 2 winning seasons, and a couple sub-par 7-9's in 10 years...and what something like 5 coaching changes. Its going to be a long time before things get better.

Wow ... are the Browns that bad this year or are the Ravens that good?

What a fantastic effort out there today! Funny how other teams change coaches, plans, players in a year and have respectable performances, seem to move forward except this one. This will never change unless fans stop rewarding failure and bad management from the top to the bottom. Oh MY!.... how this team since '99 has destroyed the Browns legacy of a proud/respectable overall history. And we used to think the mediocre 8-8, 6-8, and 5-11 teams were bad! It would not surprise me if this team went 0-16 and did not score an offensive touchdown all year. This is so unfair to the original Browns records and traditions. Who the hell...or better yet.. WHAT the hell is this? I don't think I could make a team play this poorly if I stayed up all night studying for it!

 

Personally, regardless of how bad they have been since '99, I would have been very upset had they not kept their history. 

 

There is no way at all to feel good about yesterday's loss.  I would have liked to seen Mangini go for it on 4th down and 2 instead of kicking the field goal.  I wouldn't mind seeing more fire out of Mangini either. 

 

I'm just going to bite down, swallow a tough year and hope for improvement in the future.  I do think Randy Lerner wants a winning team, I think suggesting that is completely indifferent is far from the truth.

With the first pick, in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select...

Wow ... are the Browns that bad this year or are the Ravens that good?

 

Both.  The Browns are REALLY bad and the Ravens are REALLY good.  This might be the best Ravens team yet and I am not sure these Browns could knock off the 1999 expansion team.

 

With the first pick, in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select...

 

We trade it for the best player the Jets are willing to give us.

 

Seriously though, based on what I have seen, it has got to be Javhid Best.  We will also need to go sign the best veteran QB on the market.

^ What are you talking about? In those 40 years they've achieved a lot and remained consistent. I'd trade their record in the last 40 years for ours any day, and this is not to say I think they always have the greatest talent on the field, because they don't. But, they're involved with the team. I'm not even going to entertain a discussion on this with such an inane point, or if you're insinuating that the Browns are under great ownership. I dislike the Steelers as much as any hard core Browns fan, but don't alter the facts to fit the opinions. But go ahead... you can have the last word. I'll just keep telling myself what a great expansion organization we have that has managed 2 winning seasons, and a couple sub-par 7-9's in 10 years...and what something like 5 coaching changes. Its going to be a long time before things get better.

 

He's talking about the decades before the Steelers were a winner. I know sometimes it's hard to imagine there was an NFL before 1970 (especially with ESPN -- count how many times they say "the most X since the merger"). Art Rooney Sr. bought the NFL's Pittsburgh Pirates in 1933, then bought an interest in the Philadelphia Eagles which moved to Pittsburgh and the Pittsburgh NFL team moved to Philadelphia. The Pittsburgh team was named the Steelers but it didn't change Rooney's fortunes. The Steelers lost more than they won, coming close a few times (1947 and 1963), and never had a championship until 1974. They were the whipping boys of the Cleveland Browns, a bunch of upstarts from the AAFC, which dominated the NFL for 20 years starting with their very first season in the big boy's league.

 

Meanwhile Rooney's Steelers and his NFL predecessor wandered in the championship desert for 41 years.

^ I'm well aware of the history of the Steelers/NFL before 1970, probably more than so called 'Steeler fans', but the lack of success with our team in this day and age is really wearing thin. How many times do we have to reflect on our past to somehow feel less frustrated with this current situation. So, I am also well aware of the Browns history....but time is passing and its time the losing stops and hopefully it will not take another 40 years. Maybe we should do to the NFL what was suggested in the latest edition of "WIRED" magazine...  Go check it out.

Is Robiskie ever going to play.  What's up with that?

Is Robiskie ever going to play. What's up with that?

 

Mangini doesn't like to play rookies.

It's not a good sign when your SECOND round draft choice does not even dress for the game.... especially a pick that you took ahead of that slobberknocker (Malauga) on defense that we desperately needed and who is tearing it up for a division rival.

It's not a good sign when your SECOND round draft choice does not even dress for the game.... especially a pick that you took ahead of that slobberknocker (Malauga) on defense that we desperately needed and who is tearing it up for a division rival.

 

ugh, not to mention....

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/galleries/daily_news_front_pages_september_2009/daily_news_front_pages_september_2009.html#ph0

 

^ We'll see about "Sanchise".... I, for one, am not convinced that he is destined for greatness.

who cares this is the BROWNS thread not the general sports thread.  delete that post!  I love you mrnyc, but Yeah...i said it.. delete that post

DA will start for the Browns on Sunday.

Bengals 35, Browns 9

DA will start for the Browns on Sunday.

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

DA will start for the Browns on Sunday.

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Just sink the ship now.  Can we request to play the last 13 games over the next couple weeks so we can just get it over with?

Something smells...I don't think Mangini liked BQ from the start. Makes me wonder if DA was Mangini's choice all along. It just seems like Mangini never really gave BQ a chance.

Something smells...I don't think Mangini liked BQ from the start. Makes me wonder if DA was Mangini's choice all along. It just seems like Mangini never really gave BQ a chance.

Mangini gave BQ 3 chances to prove himself. He proved what kind of quarterback he is. BQ was darn good against the teams Notre Dame played a few years ago, but considering Notre Dame has one of the easiest schedules in Division A college football, that's not saying much. I don't think DA is any better than BQ though I think he could be if he'd learn not to throw into traffic.

Brady Quinn very unfortunately for us... just doesn't have an NFL arm.  There isn't much you can do about that.

I can deal with a lot of losses this year. I can deal with a stupid quarterback situation. I can deal with a coach who is not liked by his players.  The thing that kills me is our draft. At this point, it looks like we made some major errors.

 

If we are to have any hope, it would have to come from the notion that we have young talent that will develop. Granted, it is very early to judge a draft class. But to see Sanchez and Maualuga doing so well..to watch our 3 2nd round picks doing nothing..to know that we drafted two receivers and didn't address our defensive needs.. 

Everytime I see Maualuga play I want to cry.

The mister was watching something on ESPN the other day where the commentators were discussing the fact that they thought the plays the Offensive Coordinator was calling were just setting up EVERYONE for failure.

I listened to the post game shows on Sunday to hear what the fans were saying.  The prevailing sentiment was to for Randy Lerner to sell the team.  The host, either Reghi or Mark Schaub, said that the Lerners bought the team for $500 million and it's now valued at over a billion dollars. 

 

A caller made a good comment about how, because of the quarterback competition, both guys were playing tense and not relaxed.  They were afraid to make a mistake because they'd be punished.  I thought that was a good point.

 

At least my Sunday schedules this year won't be dictated by the Browns.  I'm not going to go out of my way to watch.

James Davis out for the season... Neat.

I listened to the post game shows on Sunday ... The prevailing sentiment was to for Randy Lerner to sell the team. The host...said that the Lerners bought the team for $500 million and it's now valued at over a billion dollars.

The Lerners were partners with Art Modell and made money when he sold our team to Baltimore in 1995.  Lerner put up this facade that he sold his portion of the team out of principle, but that is a lie.  They cashed in at Cleveland's expense.

Here we go!!!!

 

A little OH rivalry!

 

Beng VS. Browns!

 

Let's do this .... cast your predictions!

Browns win big.  Derek Anderson is going to look like a pro, and then 3 games from now when we're 1-6 we can all look at each other and ask what the hell happened.

who cares this is the BROWNS thread not the general sports thread.  delete that post!  I love you mrnyc, but Yeah...i said it.. delete that post

 

suck it up, with mediocre-gini and the rise of sanchez, if there is any team that is a ying-yang 0-3 vs 3-0 link to the browns this year its the jets. i never liked mangini and look how well they are doing now.

 

meanwhile, the 2nd qtr just started and the bengals are up 14-0 already...! whats to say about that? ugh.

 

 

 

Wow! That was a little too close for my liking.