While I guess this is a comment, today's game isn't even worth commenting on (further).

yes, it was hard to watch.  They didn't seem to have much fire, especially around the 4th quarter.  They were dominated by a good team.

The torture is almost over.  Soon Banner and company will start selling off scrap for salvage value.  I wonder how much they'll get for a 30 year-old 2nd year QB who was the 35th rated QB in the NFL this year.

The torture is almost over.  Soon Banner and company will start selling off scrap for salvage value.  I wonder how much they'll get for a 30 year-old 2nd year QB who was the 35th rated QB in the NFL this year.

 

Why would anyone try to get rid of a first-round pick who has played only three years of football in the last 10? Weeden's not going anywhere. Colt didn't do much better.

 

Some players did have fire. Cribbs had a meltdown on Twitter last evening and ripped the fans a new one. He deleted his first post after sending it, but the damage had been done. Lesson: don't get on Twitter an hour after a bad game and expect fans to love you or for you to say constructive things....

 

I see all the negativity on twitter after I gave my life to this ****. So 2 all u who are against me **** all y'all! I'm still gonna do me!

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1547&t=11095427&p=1

Awaiting press release.....

Press release will be the confirmation but not the first word. Instead, I'm awaiting the first Tweets from the usual suspects: Mary Kay Cabot, Tom Withers, Tony Grossi, Daryl Ruiter, Nate Ulrich......

 

EDIT: Turns out it came from Fox Sports' Jay Glazer who just tweeted:

 

Cleveland Browns have just fired HC Pat Shurmur

 

Cleveland CBS Sports' Anthony Lima says two Browns players confirmed Pat Shurmur is gone.

Heckert was just sh!t canned as expected....

Just please God no Mike Lombardi.

I'm highly upset that Heckert is gone is was doing a fine job and was good at finding diamonds in the rough

I thought Heckert was doing OK, I disagreed with some of his choices, but he was doing better than average. He's got a future in the NFL and will probably not have trouble finding work.

 

Shurmer didn't really get a fair shot IMO, he had a start over year in 2011 but without a training camp, then a rebuilding year with the youngest team in the league during which they improved throughout the year. He definitely made a lot of mistakes and I'm not too sad to see him go, but he didn't really get a fair shot. If he continues learning and growing as a coach, he might have a future too.

I'm highly upset that Heckert is gone is was doing a fine job and was good at finding diamonds in the rough

 

I was with this thought process, but I think the hiring of Pat Shurmur was/is unforgiveable.  It never made sense from Day 1.  He did a great job with the draft, but if you think about it, he didn't have that high of a standard working against him.  It is not that hard to "not miss" in the first round...... yet, that was the only thing we seemed to be able to do consistently before Heckert arrived.

 

 

Just please God no Mike Lombardi.

 

Whoever we get as our new GM, could we please be relevant in free agency for a change in this off-season? I also wish we could pick up at least a second-round draft choice by a trade, be it a couple of players, cash, or lower-round/future drafts. I really wish we can get a linebacker in the first round in 2013 and somehow get a second round pick or higher to get a cornerback too.

I never understood why Heckert seemed to completely avoid free agency.

wow black monday for lots of coaches and gm's.

 

still kinda hoping the browns can coax cowher, although that is unlikely.

 

the draft order is set too. looks like lb's will be the best picks left for the browns. damonte moore, jarvis jones or that nd lb teo. whichever of those three are still available.

 

 

Lovie Smith or Andy Reid anyone? They would be a major upgrade over Pat Shurmer but if we don't get them I would LOVE Bruce Arians. No one else sticks out to me, honestly I had faith in Haslam but after he hired banner, fired Heckert, and wants Nick Saban and Mike Lombardi I lost ALOT of faith in him

 

I can't think of an organization that went heavy into free agency and it worked out.  Buffalo spent big$ on Mario Williams and didn't do squat.  The Redskins for years on end always picked up the top free agents and that never really worked.  Philadelphia went all in two years ago and have nothing to show for it.  Just sayin....

I can't think of an organization that went heavy into free agency and it worked out.  Buffalo spent big$ on Mario Williams and didn't do squat.  The Redskins for years on end always picked up the top free agents and that never really worked.  Philadelphia went all in two years ago and have nothing to show for it.  Just sayin....

We don't have to go all in but give me a quarterback that can be efficient an keep us in games (Alex Smith is a name that pops in my head) And a big receiver that has proven hands (Even though a risk and long shot I would roll the dice of Dwayne Bowe)

I get it that you build your core through the draft and round out your roster with free agency. I think we have a good core now. So let's add more pieces through the draft.

 

Even before that, however, I think Brandon Weeden would have benefited greatly from having veteran, accomplished receiver brought in via free agency. It's not too late to do that, especially with Mo Mass and Josh Cribbs being unrestricted free agents now. I also wish we would have featured (and activated!) Brandon Jackson more than Chris Ogbonnaya as I think Jackson's experience would have been more valuable to Weeden. Ironically, they added Jackson via free agency and then put him in cold storage.

 

I think all positions could use more depth added via free agency (or by the draft), although the offensive and defensive lines come to mind as places where you can't have enough depth. One area where they've done a good job with free agency was the defensive line. I'd like to see them continue seeking more talent for the O and D lines. And we could certainly use a lot more talent in the secondary. And I don't see the draft resolving that in the coming year.

 

To me, the goal in 2013 is to make the playoffs. If we need to add to the draft with free agents to fill in voids to make the playoffs, then let's do that.

From ESPN.com: "Browns make wrong move by firing Heckert"

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62363/browns-make-wrong-move-by-firing-heckert

Chip Kelly really intrigues me.  I wonder if the tempo offense he's developed at Oregon can translate to the NFL.

From ESPN.com: "Browns make wrong move by firing Heckert"

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62363/browns-make-wrong-move-by-firing-heckert

Exactly this hits the nail on the head

From ESPN.com: "Browns make wrong move by firing Heckert"

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62363/browns-make-wrong-move-by-firing-heckert

 

That's Jamison Hensley's opinion. He covers the AFC North for ESPN from his home in Baltimore. It's only a wrong move if they don't get a guy who is at least as good as Heckert was. Heckert made some very good moves, with Josh Gordon perhaps his best. He also made some questionable calls by overlooking lots of talented players who are making impacts on other teams (see links below). But there's no way to know at this stage if it was a wrong move.

 

Heckert was hired by the Browns in December 2009. Here are three drafts he oversaw (listing all players):

 

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2010/2010-nfl-draft-results.cfm

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2011/2011-nfl-draft-results.cfm

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2012/2012-nfl-draft-results.cfm

Hits: J. Gordon, B. Winn, J. Sheard, J. Haden, M. Schwartz, P. Taylor, J.-M. Johnson (IMHO)

Misses: Missing RGIII, Missing Julio Jones, C. McCoy, M. Hardesty

Unsure: T.J. Ward, G. Little

 

I think Heckert did well, but I have to agree there were some misses.  Not necessarily who they got, but who they didn't get.  Watching RGIII go to the playoffs for the next 5-7 years will be brutal.

Hits: J. Gordon, B. Winn, J. Sheard, J. Haden, M. Schwartz, P. Taylor, J.-M. Johnson (IMHO)

Misses: Missing RGIII, Missing Julio Jones, C. McCoy, M. Hardesty

Unsure: T.J. Ward, G. Little

 

I think Heckert did well, but I have to agree there were some misses.  Not necessarily who they got, but who they didn't get.  Watching RGIII go to the playoffs for the next 5-7 years will be brutal.

Hardesty this year showed what Heckert saw in him with 4.6 ypc, and I like how he ran against the steelers. I also think not getting RGIII was more on Holmgren than Heckert

So Browns will pay Schurmur another 2 years.  Same as they did with Romeo, same as they did with Mangini....  what a waste

So Browns will pay Schurmur another 2 years.  Same as they did with Romeo, same as they did with Mangini....  what a waste

I wish Mangini was back honestly

^^Im pretty sure they are still paying Savage.

 

 

Now that there is so much competition for coaches and GMs, will we wind up on the short end of the stick? 

^^Im pretty sure they are still paying Savage.

 

 

That's their decision and their loss. Ditto for the coaches.

 

Because there will be a competition, the top coaching candidates will be able to make greater demands. The Browns will only be on the short end if they don't offer a competitive situation for prospective coaches. Since they are also offering candidates the chance to head up player/personnel decision-making, that's a strong inducement to reel in some of the better candidates out there.

You can't say RGIII and Julio are misses unless you dismiss what we have in their place.  If we take Julio, we wouldn't have picked Phil, who is every bit as good as Julio IMO.... we also picked up Little and the pick we used on Weeden.  To take RGIII, we wouldn't have Trent, we wouldn't have had this year's 2nd rounder which we used to pick Gordon in the supplemental, we wouldn't have our 1st rounder this year and probably not one for 2014 either given the fact that we had to outbid Washington.  Not saying I wouldn't love to have either player, but it is not like the year we passed on Ed Reed to take Willie Green.  Id also consider that Julio is usually guarded by the 2nd best CB, not being Atlanta's #1 WR..... and RGIII has the benefit of Shanahan's system..... we all saw what a rookie QB (Cousins) can do in that system

Just out of curiosity, who is your dream pick of a football coach and who is your realistic pick? My dream choice would be Andy Reid since he has ties to banner and is an offensive coach with success. I HIGHLY doubt we get him because we're the browns and we don't do big names or proven coaches. My preferred realistic pick is Bruce Arians, you see what he did with the Colts and he also has ties with the Browns and is an offensive coach

Anyone see that video about what type of coach the Browns players want? That was the first time in a while that I've heard the players speak out on their preferences.

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/db_96787/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Lew6U4ge

I'm warming to the idea of Bill O'Neil

You can't say RGIII and Julio are misses unless you dismiss what we have in their place.  If we take Julio, we wouldn't have picked Phil, who is every bit as good as Julio IMO.... we also picked up Little and the pick we used on Weeden.  To take RGIII, we wouldn't have Trent, we wouldn't have had this year's 2nd rounder which we used to pick Gordon in the supplemental, we wouldn't have our 1st rounder this year and probably not one for 2014 either given the fact that we had to outbid Washington.  Not saying I wouldn't love to have either player, but it is not like the year we passed on Ed Reed to take Willie Green.  Id also consider that Julio is usually guarded by the 2nd best CB, not being Atlanta's #1 WR..... and RGIII has the benefit of Shanahan's system..... we all saw what a rookie QB (Cousins) can do in that system

I liked the trade down involving Julio Jones.  HOWEVER, I don't like what they did with many of the picks they got in return.  Taylor's okay, but can't forget they traded back up take him.  We needed a WR when we took Little, but we needed one with more speed at the time since we didn't have one WR on the team that ran under a 4.5, the pick should've been Randall Cobb (really they should've moved up a few spots for Torrey Smith).

 

Giving up multiple picks to move up one spot to take Richardson was a mistake.  Claiborne should've been the pick, CB is a higher value position, and the Browns are razor thin at the position.  The Browns could've used the 3 picks they gave up for Richardson to package for a LB in a higher round.  Weeden was just a wasted pick, he did less with more talent around him than McCoy did the previous year.  Should've gone after either an OG or DE (DeCastro, Zeitler, or Mercilus) at #22, then after Foles or Cousins in the 3rd.

 

We'll see with RG3, Cousins looked pretty good in that Offense too, winning the Ravens game, and shredding the Browns a week later.  RG3's replacement at Baylor this year threw for more yards than RG3 did last year too.

I'm warming to the idea of Bill O'Neil

. Bill O'Brien?

 

Mclovin, forget andy Reid, him and banner don't get along and I don't want him n e way. We need someone who can lead us for decades and establish a culture here. Reid failed with a lot of talent.

8Titles..... I accounted for all subsequent trades from the Julio pickp.  I believe the end result was Taylor, Little and Weeden.  You can argue it either way...... point being, it doesn't appear to be either a steal or that we got jobbed.  Probably a win win for both teams.  I'm withholding judgment on Weeden until I see him in a real NFL system.

 

Believeland..... yes, O'Brien

 

I think the Browns got the better end of the trade (in draft pick value), we just didn't optimize the picks.  I also think Weeden made Shurmur's Offense look even worst than it is, evidenced by him underperforming McCoy in the same system, but with a vastly improved supporting cast.  Shurmur didn't make him under and over throw wide open WR's.  Not to mention him being 30 years old next year, that pick alone gave Banner every reason to wipe the slate clean.  BTW - We also got Marecic with one of the picks, he won't be on the team next year.

 

 

No Bill O'Brian for the Browns unless he works out his opt out clause for $9.2 million dollars. I'm intrigued by Chip Kelly and that zone read option especially because you need a mobile QB for it and Weeden already said he couldn't do it. So if we get him Weeden would no question be gone. I feel like Weedens window is shut because of the simple fact that he is already 29 going on 30 and squandered soooo many opportunities with open receivers. Not to mention the people that supported him are gone now. I honestly think grabbing Alex Smith wouldn't be bad if we got Kelly because he can move and doesn't make many mistakes, the question lies in was he a product of Harbaugh's system or did he finally figure things out.

I'm warming to the idea of Bill O'Neil

 

He's coming up on 80 years old, and plus his expertise is really more in the stock market and entrepreneurship. 

 

Personally I wouldn't mind Josh McDaniel or Bill O'Brien.  :whip:

No Bill O'Brian for the Browns unless he works out his opt out clause for $9.2 million dollars. I'm intrigued by Chip Kelly and that zone read option especially because you need a mobile QB for it and Weeden already said he couldn't do it. So if we get him Weeden would no question be gone. I feel like Weedens window is shut because of the simple fact that he is already 29 going on 30 and squandered soooo many opportunities with open receivers. Not to mention the people that supported him are gone now. I honestly think grabbing Alex Smith wouldn't be bad if we got Kelly because he can move and doesn't make many mistakes, the question lies in was he a product of Harbaugh's system or did he finally figure things out.

 

I'm leery of Kelly, but even if the Browns brought him, what quarterback might possibly be available to run that system?  Or is he already on their roster?

No Bill O'Brian for the Browns unless he works out his opt out clause for $9.2 million dollars. I'm intrigued by Chip Kelly and that zone read option especially because you need a mobile QB for it and Weeden already said he couldn't do it. So if we get him Weeden would no question be gone. I feel like Weedens window is shut because of the simple fact that he is already 29 going on 30 and squandered soooo many opportunities with open receivers. Not to mention the people that supported him are gone now. I honestly think grabbing Alex Smith wouldn't be bad if we got Kelly because he can move and doesn't make many mistakes, the question lies in was he a product of Harbaugh's system or did he finally figure things out.

 

I'm leery of Kelly, but even if the Browns brought him, what quarterback might possibly be available to run that system?  Or is he already on their roster?

I mentioned Alex Smith but I wonder if he is a system QB or he finally figured it out? I also wonder how Thad Lewis would perform I thought he did well given that he was just thrown in there he had poise plus is mobile.

No Bill O'Brian for the Browns unless he works out his opt out clause for $9.2 million dollars. I'm intrigued by Chip Kelly and that zone read option especially because you need a mobile QB for it and Weeden already said he couldn't do it. So if we get him Weeden would no question be gone. I feel like Weedens window is shut because of the simple fact that he is already 29 going on 30 and squandered soooo many opportunities with open receivers. Not to mention the people that supported him are gone now. I honestly think grabbing Alex Smith wouldn't be bad if we got Kelly because he can move and doesn't make many mistakes, the question lies in was he a product of Harbaugh's system or did he finally figure things out.

 

I'm leery of Kelly, but even if the Browns brought him, what quarterback might possibly be available to run that system?  Or is he already on their roster?

I mentioned Alex Smith but I wonder if he is a system QB or he finally figured it out? He is mobile though with a high completion percentage this year and single digit INT's and is mobile as well.

 

I also wonder how Thad Lewis would perform I thought he did well given that he was just thrown in there he had poise plus he is mobile which is needed with the zone read option...

I also wonder how Thad Lewis would perform I thought he did well given that he was just thrown in there he had poise plus he is mobile which is needed with the zone read option...

 

Just stop.

I also wonder how Thad Lewis would perform I thought he did well given that he was just thrown in there he had poise plus he is mobile which is needed with the zone read option...

 

Just stop.

Why because I'm telling the truth?! The only mistake he had was when polumalu baited him into that int other than that he was fine because an inexperienced QB will make that mistake from time to time. The two fumbles by Gordon and Benjamin led to 2 Steelers touchdowns which were the difference in the game. For the game he went 22 of 32 which is a 69% completion rate. I believe that was a good game and showed poise in a hostile environment especially since he wasn't throwing picks left and right.  I felt more confident in him leading us to victory that Weeden simply because Lewis didnt make those throws that makes your heart skip a beat that Weeden is known for. He even got compliments from Steelers players on his performance, because he and Antonio Brown switched jerseys. I'm not saying just give him the starting spot but based on his performance he DEFINITELY deserves a chance to start next year.

Lewis played well.  No doubt about that.  But you have to keep in mind that the Steelers had no real game film on him.  They didn't have anything to let them know what his tendencies and "tells" were.  He did seem to be a better fit for Shurmur's offense because he has the feet to play under center, even on obvious passing downs.  His downfield ball did not seem great, though....... and he threw off his backfoot at points throughout the game, one of those throws resulting in the Palamalou INT.

 

Re the coaching search, all this Chip Kelly talk makes me nervous.  I'm not sure he would translate to the NFL.  It definitely would be a swing for the fences.... I'll give them that.

Here's a thought (or my nightmare) Chip Kelly and Michael Vick together in Cleveland......

Here's a thought (or my nightmare) Chip Kelly and Michael Vick together in Cleveland......

I'm gonna keep saying Alex Smith he is a much better decision maker than Vick and is mobile.

I also read an article by Tony Grossi on ESPNCleveland mentioning Jon Gruden wants to come back and is one of the top options of the browns, I would take him over the rest. My fear is they said he is a supporter of veteran teams so I wonder how he would do with this team or if he is given control over player decisions will he disrupt what we have with the young players. He is my pick now though no doubt.

Jon Gruden sure seemed to like Weeden in his QB camp series last year.

 

Chip Kelly isn't 80 years old. He's 49. Don't make me feel old!