The Holmgren/Heckert combo are to blame for the crap we're seeing on the field,

 

They're partly to blame for the latest crap. But that duo doesn't explain the fact that only one player from the 2013 draft is on the field and we've got 10 undrafted free agents on the roster.

 

Nor are they to blame for the bad rosters that came before. And if it wasn't for the collapse of the USFL in the mid-80s, I wonder if we would have had the good teams of the late 80s.

The Holmgren/Heckert combo are to blame for the crap we're seeing on the field,

 

They're partly to blame for the latest crap. But that duo doesn't explain the fact that only one player from the 2013 draft is on the field and we've got 10 undrafted free agents on the roster.

 

Nor are they to blame for the bad rosters that came before. And if it wasn't for the collapse of the USFL in the mid-80s, I wonder if we would have had the good teams of the late 80s.

Bryant, Kruger, Bess, Mingo >>> Any four players H&H brought in by either draft or FA in 3 years.  If Banner & co. can add four players the caliber of those 4 next year, we might have something.

 

Agree that the roster was a mess before H&H got here, but I enjoyed Mangini's last year more than the last 3 years.  The Browns were a Stuckey fumble from being 5-6, but it all fell apart after the Jets game.

 

Then came the blown picks of Ward, Hardesty, Luavao, Taylor (in 1st), Little, TR (at #3 and 3 picks), Weeden, Gordon (2nd round pick for known bonehead who can't stay on field), Marecic, etc.. Then some completely pathetic FA acquisitions (compared to Bryant, Kruger, & Bess), like Delhomme, Usama, BJax..

They have completely retooled the defense, which is actually good this year. 

I don't think you can overstate how much the injured offensive line has hurt the team.  little will be better as a 2 with bess in the slot.  Also, if the oline cant get weeden any time, how can they open holes for richardson? 

I really wished that I had Randy Learners phone number,  I probably could talked my way into a nice paycheck as a special team coach.

 

In retrospect all of the people who said Holmgren was just collecting a paycheck were right. At least Mangini believed in what he was doing in his own twisted way.

 

I am watching the Bengals-Steelers game right now and I am not seeing a Peyton manning level of accuracy out of Ben/ Dalton and their receivers generally catch the ball.

 

Edit: of course dalton and Ben completely over throw their receivers on the next 3 passes after I wrote that

Hoyer is going to start

Hoyer is going to start

 

I am not surprised. Well it will be interesting to say the least. He's a hometown boy, so the fans will cut him some slack. If Campbell went out and sucked, it was going to be brutal. Any changes on the O line?

The fact they skipped over Campbell to Hoyer smells of Mike Lombardi to me. Why? Chud said in the preseason that Weeden & Campbell were "close" in their competition. Strange.

 

So Hoyer will benefit from the return of OL Shawn Lauvao and WR Josh Gordon. If he cannot perform on Sunday (or even the following Sunday) with those guys in the lineup, then we're probably biding our time until the draft next spring....

I think it was just a way of giving the middle finger to the Tribe.  Nothing distracts Cleveland from a Tribe playoff run like naming your 3rd stringer the starter.

 

They want to see what they have in Hoyer and this might be the only chance.  Given the way their O-Line has pass protected the first two games, they need a QB who can move around in the pocket.  In his limited time on Sunday, Campbell looked just as slow as Weeden.

The Holmgren/Heckert combo are to blame for the crap we're seeing on the field, starting with the Julio Jones trade, which was a good trade from a pick perspective.  But Phil Taylor and Greg Little in the 1st/2nd round?  Why not Kaepernick, Torrey Smith, Randall Cobb?  Then they completely screwed the pooch with Richardson & Weeden in the 1st last year.  BTW - Ward, another 2nd round Heckert gem stinks too, can't cover, can't catch, but has a mean scowl.

 

20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing.  I actually think the Heckert drafts set up this new regime nicely moving forward.  There was next to no talent on this roster when Heckert took over. 

 

I can't argue about the Weeden pick at the moment, but Phil Taylor was well worth a late 1st rounder.  He is playing like a beast this year and will easily make the pro-bowl if he keeps it up.  NT might not be a 'sexy' position to the average football fan, but it is the lynchpin of a 3-4 defense.

 

TJ Ward "stinks"?  He made si.com's All-Pro team last year and is generally highly regarded as a very solid (at worst) SS around the league.  He's not a "center-fielder", but he is not supposed to be at that position either.  That is Gipson's job as a FS.  Ward is more of a 5th LB who can provide support in against both the run and the pass.  His only issue is staying healthy. 

I think it was just a way of giving the middle finger to the Tribe.  Nothing distracts Cleveland from a Tribe playoff run like naming your 3rd stringer the starter.

 

They want to see what they have in Hoyer and this might be the only chance.  Given the way their O-Line has pass protected the first two games, they need a QB who can move around in the pocket.  In his limited time on Sunday, Campbell looked just as slow as Weeden.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Cleveland fans just started talking Tribe this morning, and then the Browns name Hoyer the starting QB. From a marketing perspective, it's a brilliant move.

..

So the Browns traded Richardson to the Colts this evening......

 

 

Trent Richardson dealt to Colts

 

The Cleveland Browns have traded former first-round pick Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a first-round pick.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9690728/cleveland-browns-trade-trent-richardson-indianapolis-colts-according-source

 

WTF is going on in Berea? Can we at least bring Hillis back so my kid can have the Jersey of a current player?

Indian Fever!  It's starts from the very first Browns trade!

 

Be a Believer!

Been a browns fan for 14 years I may be done with this team.........THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

It was mediocre while it lasted

This is probably going to be a 25-32 draft pick. I don't get this. If this was A top 15 pick, maybe....

 

Obviously Indy thinks that T Rich is worth something. Couldn't we have gotten an O line man too?

Now Lewis getting hurt reaaaaally sucks.  Is Obi really going to be our primary back?  Rainey?  What is Montario's status?  This is a head spinner

 

Two thoughts on the trade....

 

It is exceedingly rare that teams trade a 1st round pick, especially in a loaded draft.  The exception being using future firsts to move up in the first

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trent is hurt again.  In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the trade is voided.

Good thing I wasn't naive enough to get a Richardson jersey. Like I was with Hillis, Edwards, Garcia, Couch, etc.

Now Lewis getting hurt reaaaaally sucks.  Is Obi really going to be our primary back?  Rainey?  What is Montario's status?  This is a head spinner

 

Two thoughts on the trade....

 

It is exceedingly rare that teams trade a 1st round pick, especially in a loaded draft.  The exception being using future firsts to move up in the first

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trent is hurt again.  In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the trade is voided.

We are bringing in McGahee for a physical, I would only be satisfied if they flipped that pick for a star receiver maybe even Kenny Britt but that is HIGHLY doubtful

Now Lewis getting hurt reaaaaally sucks.  Is Obi really going to be our primary back?  Rainey?  What is Montario's status?  This is a head spinner

 

Two thoughts on the trade....

 

It is exceedingly rare that teams trade a 1st round pick, especially in a loaded draft.  The exception being using future firsts to move up in the first

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trent is hurt again.  In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the trade is voided.

 

Ogbonnaya has looked good in the games he had an opportunity to start, which hasn't happened since 2011 though.

 

19 attempts

90 yards

4.7 average

 

21 attempts

115 yards

5.5 average

 

 

Looks better than what we have seen from Richardson or Hardesty. I agree he is not the long term solution though, but I dont believe he will hurt us and he might actually be a slight improvement.

 

Outstanding move by the Browns, hopefully they're scouring the NFL for a team that will give us a 4th rounder for Weeden.

 

Certainly the Browns will find a RB to plug in this year that can gain 3.5 yards/carry like Richardson, then draft a young RB next year with a pick that makes sense for a RB.

Now Lewis getting hurt reaaaaally sucks.  Is Obi really going to be our primary back?  Rainey?  What is Montario's status?  This is a head spinner

 

Two thoughts on the trade....

 

It is exceedingly rare that teams trade a 1st round pick, especially in a loaded draft.  The exception being using future firsts to move up in the first

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trent is hurt again.  In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the trade is voided.

 

Ogbonnaya has looked good in the games he had an opportunity to start, which hasn't happened since 2011 though.

 

19 attempts

90 yards

4.7 average

 

21 attempts

115 yards

5.5 average

 

 

Looks better than what we have seen from Richardson or Hardesty. I agree he is not the long term solution though, but I dont believe he will hurt us and he might actually be a slight improvement.

 

Isn't Ogbonnaya the Browns de facto fullback at the moment?

Now Lewis getting hurt reaaaaally sucks.  Is Obi really going to be our primary back?  Rainey?  What is Montario's status?  This is a head spinner

 

Two thoughts on the trade....

 

It is exceedingly rare that teams trade a 1st round pick, especially in a loaded draft.  The exception being using future firsts to move up in the first

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trent is hurt again.  In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the trade is voided.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if gets a hundred yards a game with a real passing threat and offensive line to back him up.

Should we change the options on this poll to:

 

0 wins

1 win

2 wins

3 or more wins

 

?

The Vikings have a crap passing game and a shaky OL, but Peterson still runs for 2,000 yards a year because he is a special player.  Jones-Drew puts up great numbers and Jax has CFL-caliber WR's & QB's.

 

Richardson needed what average RB's need in order to put up average numbers, which means by definition that he is average or ordinary as one prominent ex-player once said.

The Vikings have a crap passing game and a shaky OL, but Peterson still runs for 2,000 yards a year because he is a special player.  Jones-Drew puts up great numbers and Jax has CFL-caliber WR's & QB's.

 

Richardson needed what average RB's need in order to put up average numbers, which means by definition that he is average or ordinary as one prominent ex-player once said.

 

Well-stated.

its bothersome because the browns have obviously given up on this season; not just from a winning perspective, but also a watchable football perspective.  They're going to dust of the carcass of mcGahee and play a third string quarterback. 

 

The question becomes whether the browns are tanking two weeks into the season.

"@brentsobleski: Remember when DeAngelo Williams said he was disappointed last year because Panthers would plan for run game then go completely away from it?"

 

"@MarkSchwab: Just spoke to somebody that just left Richardson's home. The person said Trent heard about the trade on the radio."

^^ Its not like we just had some major downgrade at QB, and unfortunately its only temporary as Weeden will be back soon. Personally Id like Hoyer to get a shot. He has practiced under some great systems and some great QB's. He is a hometown guy who went undrafted. If he could do something positive, it would be an awesome storyline.

 

Trent Richardson did not have that spark that the Cleveland Browns were hoping for. Additionally he probably wont have a long career in the NFL as he has injury problems. The trade was surprising, but I don't see this as the end of the world.

Richardson was kind of disappointing, but it's still hard to believe that his ceiling isn't higher than he's performed. He will be better - I don't think he's a future great or anything, though.

 

Actually, I like the trade, except who it's with. Indianapolis is very likely to end over .500 - they have a weak division and a favorable schedule. Face it, the Browns need a franchise QB - nothing else matters until we get that. Weeden assuredly is not it - he's improved somewhat, but he just doesn't have "it". They're going all-out for it now. They won't be overbid again. In that sense, I understand/approve of the trade. But what a slap in the face to the fans and the season ticket holders. It had better pay off in next year's draft or the team will, at long last, be at risk of truly losing its fans. And that's a real risk. There's no guarantee that Bridgewater or whoever we want will be available if Jacksonville goes 1-15 and refuses to move.

Why Trent Richardson’s 3.6 YPC average does not matter

http://www.footballperspective.com/why-trent-richardsons-3-6-ypc-average-does-not-matter/

 

if you can remove your bias, pleas explain how is hoyer not a downgrade?

This is probably going to be a 25-32 draft pick. I don't get this. If this was A top 15 pick, maybe....

 

Obviously Indy thinks that T Rich is worth something. Couldn't we have gotten an O line man too?

 

The Colts needed a running back badly.......

 

Vick Ballard (ACL) out for season

Updated: September 13, 2013, 9:32 PM ET

By Mike Wells | ESPN.com

 

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indianapolis Colts' running game has taken a substantial hit.

 

Running back Vick Ballard will undergo season-ending surgery on a torn ACL in his right knee, coach Chuck Pagano said Friday. Colts owner Jim Irsay tweeted that Ballard has been placed on injured reserve.

 

Ballard, who as a rookie led the Colts in rushing last season, was injured in a non-contact drill during Thursday's practice. Pagano and teammates described the injured at "freakish."

 

READ MORE AT:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9668962/vick-ballard-indianapolis-colts-season-torn-acl

 

 

Should we change the options on this poll to:

 

0 wins

1 win

2 wins

3 or more wins

 

?

 

I just removed my old vote and placed a new vote "3 wins or less".

 

That said, I think this COULD be a good trade DEPENDING on who they get in 2014 and DEPENDING on how that player performs in the coming years. As a Browns fan, it's frustrating because it's now ANOTHER rebuilding season. After the third preseason game, I was feeling very good about this season. But after the second regular season game, I began to realize this season is going to be another load of crap. So at least that crappy season will now be followed by making more draft picks than we would have otherwise. So who says I'm not optimistic!

Like I said up thread.  1-4 on Sundays is homework time. Go tribe!

Why Trent Richardson’s 3.6 YPC average does not matter

http://www.footballperspective.com/why-trent-richardsons-3-6-ypc-average-does-not-matter/

 

if you can remove your bias, pleas explain how is hoyer not a downgrade?

The Browns scored 10 points & 6 points in their first two games, with Richardson supposedly drawing attention from opposing Defenses.  If Hoyer & RB "X" can score more than 10 points a game, that's an upgrade.

Why Trent Richardson’s 3.6 YPC average does not matter

http://www.footballperspective.com/why-trent-richardsons-3-6-ypc-average-does-not-matter/

 

if you can remove your bias, pleas explain how is hoyer not a downgrade?

The Browns scored 10 points & 6 points in their first two games, with Richardson supposedly drawing attention from opposing Defenses.  If Hoyer & RB "X" can score more than 10 points a game, that's an upgrade.

 

if...

It was mediocre while it lasted

 

You are being kind. 

 

Support a Cleveland winner.  GO TRIBE!

Methinks Lombardi found some old stash david modell had hidden.

 

Denver just lost their LT, someone should hack into the Browns' phone system and block all incoming calls from Colorado.

I heard on one of the news stations that the Browns are shopping around another player to trade. I think that that player is Greg Little.

what in the sam hill? ooh i got a headache.

Well, on the bright side it's sort of refreshing that they are trying to be horrible on purpose....

 

What kills me about the trade is that there was no current player included. Absolutely nothing to help the team in the present. We really really need extra linemen/DB and there wasn't an Indy back up worth getting along with a draft pick? Banner had Indy by the cajones, he doesn't seem like the type not to squeeze....

 

Edit: I just reread what I wrote. The whole deal and the message it sends sucks.

This is a good trade from a business/future perspective.  Im a browns fan, but not really emotionally attached.  I think everyone needs to take the emotion out of it.  Dont confuse being a #3 pick in the draft with being a franchise changing player.  Trent was never going to LEAD the browns to a super bowl.  He is a good piece, but name me a franchise where the running back has lead the team to a championship?  In this day in age, yo uneed a strong defense and a QB.  The reason the ravens won last year was because Flacco got insanely hot.  They beat teams with really strong QB's in the playoffs. 

 

I would say move along.  Browns were not going to grow into anything special with Trent.

Except you want watchable football.  And the browns, at an organisational level, have decided to tank the season after the second week.  I can't remember seen something like this in the NFL.  There are ticket holders who have paid for the privilege of watching fourteen games of a team who is trying to lose.

The Browns always make good "for the future" decisions (minus draft day itself), except that we're in the future now, and well...

^Did you see watchable football so far this year on offense?  Maybe we were watching different games, but i sure didnt.  The browns will stay in games because of defense this year and from that standpoint it will be watchable.  THey werent scoring with Trent.  He is the #3 pick in the draft last year.  Over the course of a game, you can blame the O-line, whatever and make excuses, but a draft pick of that caliber is expected to be a game changer, make some plays on his own and change the course of a game.  I saw that last year once against San Diego and once against Pittsburgh.  I never saw him break a run of more than 20 yards and i never dropped my jaw because of anything he did.

Furthermore, i trust these guys a little more.  They have experience building winning football.  They built a Philly team that went to multiple NFC championships and a super bowl.  Holmgren/Heckert seemed to do better than anythign under lerner..,.but still these guys bring an actual resume of building good football

I now take my odds of the browns winning the super bowl down to 50%.

My co-worker said "You might as well just bet on red or black at that point."

I said "I only play on roulette tables that are orange and brown."

Its not that they're going to lose it's that they're trying to lose.  There is a distinction.

And, these guys don't have a great resume, banner didn't run football operations for the eagles, lombardi didn't run player acquisition anywhere, and chud is a first time head coach.  So, I have no blind faith.

I also don't think this is a bad longterm move, but jesus, there are four months of this season left and it is unfair to judge the offense without gordon or guards. 

I would agree with that.  The biggest disappointment is that we are at week 2 and we cant get behind a team for the rest of the season.  Same thing happend last year, we started 0-5.  There isnt much good going on.  That being said, i didnt really expect much from this group anyway, so if we can get practically a new team offensively next year with this draft, i am all in.  I had some faith in weeden last year, i lost pretty much all faith in him since

Kiper was just on the Really Big Show.  He labeled the trade a win-win for both teams.  One point he made in favor of the Browns is that, in the 35 years he has been covering the draft, he would not have once taken a RB in the 1st round.

 

What kills me about the trade is that there was no current player included. Absolutely nothing to help the team in the present. We really really need extra linemen/DB and there wasn't an Indy back up worth getting along with a draft pick? Banner had Indy by the cajones, he doesn't seem like the type not to squeeze....

 

As crazy as it sounds, the 1st round pick ALONE was great value for Trent.  Consider this... the Bills got a 4th round pick for Marshawn Lynch at about the same point in the season a few years back.  Lynch was a two-time 1,000yd+ rusher, had made a pro-bowl, and was in his prime at the time he was traded.