^No they weren't.  I think Hoyer actually got every benefit of the doubt.  Some he deserved.  Some he got because he was a hometown kid and an over-achiever.  His play was indisputably terrible over the past four weeks......... four.  It is not as if he had one bad game and was yanked.  The coaches tried to stick with him.  I think defenses finally got his tendencies down and started jumping routes on his throws and otherwise putting him in uncomfortable situations.  The best thing Hoyer did was burn the blitz.  Cincy would not have stacked 8 in the box against him like they did Manziel.  But they would have sat back and waited for one of his passes to go awry to pick it off.  Hoyer tries to expose mistakes, but if the defense plays more conservative, he is limited in what he can do.  That seems to have been the book on him.  In all honesty, Hoyer should have had perhaps as many as double the picks he ended up with.  He was extremely lucky on more plays than I can count that the defender did not come up with the ball.

Worst game of the year by the defense and worst game of the year by the O-line (ironically, the first Cincy game was probably the best game played by those two units).  WRs dropped a few balls.  I'm not staunchly defending Manziel, and am certainly no Johnny Football honk, but his performance was not on the top of my list as to why we played so miserably.  We really missed the middle of our defense (Taylor, Dansby, Gipson), our third string center looked like a 3rd string center, and our WRs were not competing for balls.  On top of that, we had some tough breaks, starting right on that initial drive when the refs missed a blatant hold on 3rd down which would have caused the Bengals to punt...... I mean our guy (I think it was Kruger) was literally tackled by the blocker.  Then Mingo gets that penalty on what should've been another stop on 3rd down.  Then Haden drops that INT (it would have been a great catch if he got it).  Then Haden goes down.  I'm surprised the margin of victory was not bigger than what it was.  If we had played like that against one of those Steelers teams from 10 years ago, it would have been one of those 51-0 shellackings.

 

Agreed... and on top of all that, there were the special teams.  I mean, did we field 1 kickoff even remotely near the 20?  Several times taking a knee in the end zone seemed obvious. 

 

Unfortunately, Johnny has turned himself into bulletin board material for the league (and notably this game: you think the Maualuga taunting and Lewis "midget" comment came out of nowhere?) and he made rookie mistakes.  But what the hell happened to that stellar defense of a week ago?  A D that was so good that it made benching Hoyer a no-brainer based on how much of a gift the D handed Hoyer that he pissed away... Yesterday was a comedy (or tragedy) of errors on all levels, including coaching, because this team didn't look remotely prepared for this key game.

I think with the current make-up of the D with injuries, we can hang with passing teams, but grind it out teams are going to grind it out on us.  Our fantastic depth on the D-line is gone and our leader of the front 7 is out.  Also, don't underestimate the effect Gibson's 'center field' skills has on the rest of the defense.  We have to play more passive up front with him out.

ho boyy:

 

http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/how-the-browns-sabotaged-johnny-manziels-first-start/

 

ho boyy:

 

http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/how-the-browns-sabotaged-johnny-manziels-first-start/

 

 

Not sure I agree with that article, but the radical shift in playcalling to read-option and conservative passing clearly disrupted the entire offense and did not play to Manziel's strengths. Oh, he's a mobile QB, let's run read-option. Problem: We have not done the read-option this season much, so nobody, including the third-string center, and Manziel, is prepared for it. Result: Disaster. And our defense is running out of bodies. Even depth players are going down, and we don't have a lot of depth.

 

The rest is Manziel being an under-prepared rookie. He will get better, but who knows how much better.

Columbus thinks it’s getting Cleveland Browns Training Camp

by Scott Sargent

DECEMBER 18, 2014

 

Complete with a lede that includes the “Johnny Manziel money sign,” we have reports out of Columbus that city officials (clad in Browns gear) believe it’s only a matter of time before Cleveland Browns Training Camp heads south on I-71.

 

"Mayor Michael B. Coleman, City Council President Andrew J. Ginther and Franklin County Commissioner John O’Grady showed up at First Energy Stadium in Cleveland to make a pitch for Columbus to become home to the team’s new training camp. Coleman, an ardent Bengals fan, even wore Browns gear. The Browns are exploring a new home away from their current facilities in Berea, and the Columbus group offered financial incentives of an undisclosed amount to entice Browns owner Jimmy Haslam their way. It’s likely the city and county would support the Browns’ new facilities, if needed. Two sources at City Hall said the group left the Sunday meeting thinking it was “a matter of when, not if” the team announces its relocation to Columbus."

 

...

 

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/12/columbus-thinks-getting-cleveland-browns-training-camp/

 

citing: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/12/18/columbus-woos-browns-for-training-camp.html

So are the Browns players going to move down to Columbus, and have to deal with every home game as if it were an away game?  That doesn't sound very smart.

So are the Browns players going to move down to Columbus, and have to deal with every home game as if it were an away game?  That doesn't sound very smart.

 

Many teams don't have training camp in there own city, but it's usually in a small town where they can focus with few big-city distractions (night clubs, casinos, strip bars, etc -- Columbus doesn't qualify since it has all that). So many teams practice in places like Latrobe, PA (Steelers), Bourbonnais, IL (Bears), Pittsford, NY (Bills), Cortland, NY (Jets) or the really bizarre one -- Oxnard, California (Cowboys)!

^^It would just be for training camp.  They wouldn't practice in C-Bus during the regular season once the games begin.  As KJP notes, this is not uncommon.  I don't know if it is still like this today, but some teams would even put there players up in dorms and impose a strict curfew through the camp to keep them focused on football.  The latest CBA might have had some impact on their ability to do so.

That makes a little more sense, but wouldn't they be paying the cost of maintaining two workout facilities, then?  Why not just build dorms on the Berea campus?

Not sure how I feel about this. For one thing, if the Browns sign off on a pre-season camp move to Columbus with the pretext of solidifying their fan base in Central Ohio, it will smack of desperation on their part, even if half of NE Ohio already lives there. In fact, it already comes off as desperate for the Browns. Management is more worried about losing market share to the Bengals and Steelers when they should just focus the bulk of their efforts on building and maintaining a winning and competitive Super Bowl-contending team on the field that will grow a loyal fan base on its own merits.

 

As such, this comes off as a really lame marketing gimmick, no matter how well-intentioned it may be.

 

On a similar note, while I love Columbus as a city, this is just more area in which the state capital city seems to be actively working to undermine the older and more established cities in the state through direct competition, by siphoning off assets, rather than supporting their efforts to keep them in place as a proper state capital should.

So are the Browns players going to move down to Columbus, and have to deal with every home game as if it were an away game?  That doesn't sound very smart.

 

Many teams don't have training camp in there own city, but it's usually in a small town where they can focus with few big-city distractions (night clubs, casinos, strip bars, etc -- Columbus doesn't qualify since it has all that). So many teams practice in places like Latrobe, PA (Steelers), Bourbonnais, IL (Bears), Pittsford, NY (Bills), Cortland, NY (Jets) or the really bizarre one -- Oxnard, California (Cowboys)!

 

It's also a very effective regional marketing tool.    Sounds like the Browns are trying to win the battle of mid-ohio.

hmm since the cols mayor is such a big bengals fan, why not go after their training camp instead? or better yet the colts from its sister sprawl city indy? or wait, go after for the steelers camp. for the lulz. but oh no not the browns camp.

 

he must think the browns are low hanging fruit because the of troubled carpetbagging hillbilly gas station owner or something. and he might be right. i don't like it, but i can't blame them for making a pitch, you never know unless you try.

If Columbus is actively trying to steal the camp from Cleveland, they are saying a major FU to Cleveland; every Clevelander should boycott Columbus---including doing any business with any Columbus firm. The Gordon Square master plan just released was apparently done by Columbus firm. All that should stop immediately.

 

It's just training camp.  I'm sure the Browns are very interested in marketing the team in Columbus, and attracting potential TV revenue, merchandise and ticket sales.  This is a good thing.  Most NFL teams are doing it.

Conspiracy theories exist for those who don't yet understand. It's OK to wait and see if an answer emerges, if you really want an answer.

 

I like the idea of the Browns positioning its training camp as a tool to grab market share from another AFC North rival. Columbus makes more sense than Youngstown, although Mount Union College in Alliance would draw from Greater Akron, Canton and Youngstown thereby tapping a population of 1.6 million which is pretty close to Greater Columbus' population. And I hate the Steelers more than the Bengals, but it like Pittsburgh more than any city in Ohio except Cleveland. :)

What does Columbus and or Franklin County get out of this? Bed/sales taxes? A football facility to use 11 months out of the year?

Conspiracy theories exist for those who don't yet understand. It's OK to wait and see if an answer emerges, if you really want an answer.

 

I like the idea of the Browns positioning its training camp as a tool to grab market share from another AFC North rival. Columbus makes more sense than Youngstown, although Mount Union College in Alliance would draw from Greater Akron, Canton and Youngstown thereby tapping a population of 1.6 million which is pretty close to Greater Columbus' population. And I hate the Steelers more than the Bengals, but it like Pittsburgh more than any city in Ohio except Cleveland. :)

 

Way too many Squeelers fans in the Dirty Y and Pennsyltucky boundry waters....

Way too many Squeelers fans in the Dirty Y and Pennsyltucky boundry waters....

 

Didn't used to be. When I was growing up in the 1970s, Y-town was still Browns town. My family is from there and they loved the newcomer Browns who came into the NFL in 1950 and immediately dominated, appearing in 14 NFL championship games over the next 20 years and winning four of them. The Steelers had been in the NFL since 1933 and hadn't won a thing for four decades. So of course everyone in Y-town loved the Browns. The Steelers were the lovable losers.

 

Shows how things can and do change over time. Someday, it will change again and you'll tell your grandchildren how bad the Browns were and they'll look at you like you're making up stuff.

 

It's just training camp.  I'm sure the Browns are very interested in marketing the team in Columbus, and attracting potential TV revenue, merchandise and ticket sales.  This is a good thing.  Most NFL teams are doing it.

 

You're thinking about this from a Brown corporate angle. See it from the city of columbus angle---who are behind this. Its a first step. Columbus thinks of itself as the 'largest city in ohio'. In reality its a dull and boring city that is only larger in population because it annexed (by force) all of its suburbs in Franklin County. Don't be fooled--they'd love to steal the browns from CLE. This is an aggressive and provocative move by Columbus towards Cleveland.

how long can we keep up training camp site talk until we have to acknowledge the ugly first half of the game today? whoops lol.

Columbus would be a better rival, I could hate them more. Maybe the Browns should move there.

wow your QB can't catch a break.

They want to extend the fan base, by having the Browns train in CBus, the fans will likely be better fans

So much for having all winning records in the division. :(

First of all, the Browns are never moving to Columbus. Second of all, here's an interesting and relevant article from 13 years ago:

 

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/11/17/wwwbenaohio17.html

 

'You don't live in CLEVELAND'

But a look at Browns, Bengals' in-state rival, suggests Sam Wyche's famous line may have lost some of its bite

 

By Mark Curnutte

The Cincinnati Enquirer

 

The Cleveland Browns hold a slim lead over the Bengals in the on-field "Battle of Ohio." But off the field, since returning as an expansion team in 1999, the Browns are the clear winner.

 

Browns games have higher TV ratings through most of the state, particularly in the pivotal Columbus market that's actually closer to Cincinnati than Cleveland.

 

I know this article is 13 years old, but still rings true in my experience. The Bengals have never been able to capture a fan base like the Browns or Steelers.

 

There's probably a bigger minority of Steeler fans than Bengals fans around here (Cbus). Buckeyes obviously run the show though, the natives don't get as crazy about the NFL. There are of course, a ton of CLE expats here, such as myself. The Browns are right to amp up the marketing here and lock in the city as a Browns-town, and I fully support the training camp move.

Who cares about training camp? What's the big deal? If they want to go to Cowlumbus, then go.

Who cares about training camp? What's the big deal? If they want to go to Cowlumbus, then go.

 

It's far and away the best place to take kids to see the team close up.  "Family night" at whatever stadium doesn't even compare.

 

My daughter's been twice, and no way is she ready to go to a game.

^well do you go every day? If so, I imagine that would be a problem, but if you go once a year your drive will just be a little longer.

 

It's just training camp.  I'm sure the Browns are very interested in marketing the team in Columbus, and attracting potential TV revenue, merchandise and ticket sales.  This is a good thing.  Most NFL teams are doing it.

 

You're thinking about this from a Brown corporate angle. See it from the city of columbus angle---who are behind this. Its a first step. Columbus thinks of itself as the 'largest city in ohio'. In reality its a dull and boring city that is only larger in population because it annexed (by force) all of its suburbs in Franklin County. Don't be fooled--they'd love to steal the browns from CLE. This is an aggressive and provocative move by Columbus towards Cleveland.

 

There is no way the Browns would EVER move to Columbus.  I don't think the OSU machine would allow those dollars to be drained from the market. 

 

This is a win win for both the team and the city.  The Browns improve their TV numbers and sell some merchandise.  The City of Columbus gets some pro sports cred, along with the payroll taxes the Browns players would pay them when in camp.   

 

Don't think to much into this...it's actually good for the Browns.

So Connor Shaw may start at QB for the Browns on Sunday. Wow.

 

It will be interesting to see. But even if we get a "Spurgeon Wynn" performance, it doesn't mean Connor's the man. Spurgeon wasn't the man either, for us or anyone else.

So Connor Shaw may start at QB for the Browns on Sunday. Wow.

 

It will be interesting to see. But even if we get a "Spurgeon Wynn" performance, it doesn't mean Connor's the man. Spurgeon wasn't the man either, for us or anyone else.

 

My first thought was they get to put a new name on that jersey in the warehouse dist.

So Connor Shaw may start at QB for the Browns on Sunday. Wow.

 

WTF? When Hoyer brought the Browns to the brink of a playoff berth, why would Shaw come in (let alone Johnny "Foot-tall" Manzielf)?!

Hoyer is hurt too.

Two injured quarterbacks? Are the Browns the Bizarro Buckeyes?

Moving the Browns down here? Yeah that'd go over good. Make everyone in the state hate each other. Then the team would also be in a city that wouldn't even fully support the NFL. It has been studied extensively and they figured out that Columbus isn't actually that big into football relatively speaking bedsides the Buckeyes. High school is barely a blip here unless your kid is on the team. Support for existing NFL teams is up and down. Columbus is a hobbies-and-interests kind of city. Radio-controlled cars and planes, horses, golf, motorcycles, car shows, hunting and all that are what's hot here.

If that wasn't enough this town is also over-run with nerds.

Bengals fan--and to make it clear (and I think past posts bear this out), I am not trolling you guys--but I didn't see any of the Browns game Sunday.  (Obviously I watched the Browns-Bengals the week before.)  How did Manziel look?  I know the numbers weren't good, but did he seem any more comfortable out there? 

Bengals fan--and to make it clear (and I think past posts bear this out), I am not trolling you guys--but I didn't see any of the Browns game Sunday.  (Obviously I watched the Browns-Bengals the week before.)  How did Manziel look?  I know the numbers weren't good, but did he seem any more comfortable out there? 

 

Well with the injury we didn't see that much, but to me he still looks overwhelmed. The entire offense has been in a shambles for several weeks now...whether it's Hoyer or Manziel it's really not fun to watch.

The browns just signed Tyler Thigpen to QB the rest of the season

The browns just signed Tyler Thigpen to QB the rest of the season

People keep saying "the rest of the season" as if we've got a few more games...

I apologize for trolling you guys. I'm disappointed with the way things turned out for you this season, and I would put the Browns in the Steelers' position in a heartbeat. Hope your QB situation pans out before next year. Who knows, Thigpen might turn out to be the answer.

 

Now how about you kick the crap out of Baltimore? That would be fantastic.

 

Josh Gordon suspended for tomorrow's finale:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/josh_gordon_suspended_by_cleve.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

Josh Gordon suspended for tomorrow's finale:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/josh_gordon_suspended_by_cleve.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

Team was unable to locate Gordon & Manziel.  What a couple jackasses.  Gordon is talented but not talented enough to compensate for his jackass behavior.  Manziel is not even close to being talented enough

The team sure is 'rounding into form' as the season comes to a close.

The team sure is 'rounding into form' as the season comes to a close.

 

Sure nuff.

 

Speaking of which, I suppose once today's game is over we all need to grade Pettine.    I'm interested to hear everyones thoughts on his first year.

The team sure is 'rounding into form' as the season comes to a close.

 

Sure nuff.

 

Speaking of which, I suppose once today's game is over we all need to grade Pettine.    I'm interested to hear everyones thoughts on his first year.

 

I'll give you my thoughts right now - he made some rookie coaching mistakes, but I think he brings the demeanor that this organization needs. I like him as a coach, and although we all may not agree with all of his decisions, he definitely is better than the last few coaches in recent memory. Just my thoughts...

i kinda want to see them get blown out today, just to see if jimmy is stupid enough to fire him

To me he needs to work on his time management skills, immediately.

Final Poll Results: