I watched a few of Kizer's games last night. I realize his WRs sucked in 2016 and his OL was weaker than 2015. I took those into account while watching his cut-ups. I can tell when a play doesn't work because of the QB vs that of other players. With that in mind, if he starts more than two games for the Browns, I will been very surprised. Here are my impressions...

 

+ Strong arm

+ ball travels with little or no flutter, making it easy to catch

+ amazingly quick release

+ very good mechanics

+ horribly inaccurate

+ makes bad throwing decisions even when not under pressure that resulted in INTs or near-INTS

+ at crunch time, when his team needs a scoring drive, he can't produce

+ great players make great plays at difficult times and he doesn't

+ has no "wow" factor; doesn't amaze; little playmaking ability

 

Sorry Kizer fans. I don't see him beating out Kessler. Won't see the field much in 2017 barring injury. Then it's time to get our real franchise QB in 2018. Wasted pick, especially with JuJu Smith-Schuster, Kareem Hunt, Obi Melifonwu and Chidobe Awuzie still available.

 

Maybe Kizer will supply depth or be trade bait next year.

Kizer was picked at the right spot by the right team.  Prototypical size and great arm playing in a cancerous situation under Kelly who probably gets fired this year.  Hopefully he sits at least the entire year while Kessler starts, who himself could surprise this year with a better OL and actual practices with the 1st team.

I viewed Kizer as having the highest ceiling of this entire QB class. Definitely worth the risk at 52.  He was generally thought of as a top 10 pick the last time he stepped on a football field.  Maybe analytics told them to not over analyze?  I'll bet the 'hit' ratio is much higher on guys who drop between Januaryband April than it is on guys who make major leaps on big boards through the same timeframe. 

kizer drops a great browns draft to a B+ rating. a waste of a pick.

 

im still in shock over the bears. woah. they really don goofed.

I disagree with the (surprising) Kizer naysayers, especially those who say he was a "waste of a pick"... huh!!????

 

Though he is raw, he has all the tools but, most importantly,he likely has be best coach to get the most out of him as well as an improving line and a very promising TE to play behind.  And we didn't reach for him.  If after a year he can't beat out Kessler, who is a nice backup but not an NFL starter, something seriously has gone wrong.

I'll keep an open mind on Kizer and see what Hue can do with him.

 

I'm also reassessing other draft picks, namely Jabrill Peppers and Caleb Brantley. I didn't understand what the Browns were trying to do with him, nor had I watched his full-game cut-ups on Draftbreakdown. Peppers is a dazzling playmaker who can and often does quickly change the course of a game in his team's favor with his defense and special teams. This assessment of Peppers is spot-on:

 

As for Brantley, everything I've read about his pending assault charge is BS. And after watching his cut-ups on Draftbreakdown, I'm praying the charge isn't true. The guy is strong, quick, usually has a good snap-count anticipation, good tackler and has a nose for the ball. Most times he's blowing through the line of scrimmage and blowing-up plays, even if he's not making tackles. When he isn't, it's usually because he's being double-teamed. He is truly a disruptive force and would help greatly in both the run and passing game -- a real plus for a 3-tech. The 3-tech is a need for us, with Des Bryant coming back from injury and playing situational/rotational roles. Brantley is a 3-down 3-tech. If he can't play for whatever reason, Ogunjobi is a good draft pick for us. But Brantley (if he's cleared) would be a GREAT draft pick for us at any round (much less the 6th!). He was originally rated a second rounder.

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE -- I hope he's cleared!!!

 

Browns also picked up a ton of UDFAs, including Channing Stribling. How in the hell wasn't he drafted? When I watched the cut-ups of Peppers, I couldn't help but notice the play of #8 (Stribling). He was almost the exceptional playmaker that Peppers was. I'm very happy the Browns got Stribling!

 

This draft and off-season was a stunner. In addition to the free-agent pick-ups, the Browns vastly upgraded both lines, added a proven WR, a raw game-breaking TE, a game-changing Polamalu-type safety, and lots of raw talent to the CB position. And, who knows, maybe they found their QB of the future. If not, Kessler had the eighth-highest QB rating last year behind a dysfunctional offensive line. He's an accurate passer who has been working on his arm strength all offseason.

 

And with the deep 2018 draft coming and the Browns five picks in the first and second rounds, I expect a winning team by the end of the 2018 season. Call me crazy!

Browns got nine players for Carson Wentz, and they’re not done yet

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 30, 2017, 12:18 PM EDT

 

The haul of players the Browns have acquired with picks they got from Philadelphia in last year’s Carson Wentz trade is extraordinary, and it hasn’t even ended yet.

 

Cleveland sent the second overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft (along with a 2017 fourth-round pick) to the Eagles in exchange for Philadelphia’s first-round, third-round, and fourth-round picks in last year’s draft, Philadelphia’s first-round pick in this year’s Draft and Philadelphia’s second-round pick in next year’s NFL Draft.

 

With Philadelphia’s 2016 first-round pick, Cleveland traded down again and got Tennessee’s first-round pick and third-round pick, as well as Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick. With Tennessee’s first-round pick, Cleveland chose receiver Corey Coleman. With Tennessee’s third-round pick, Cleveland chose offensive tackle Shon Coleman. With Tennessee’s 2017 second-round pick, Cleveland chose quarterback DeShone Kizer.

 

MORE:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/30/browns-got-nine-players-for-carson-wentz-and-theyre-not-done-yet/

Brantley is either a "waste" of a pick that often enough gets cut during their first camp, or the biggest steal since Tom Brady.

 

No in between.

Brantley is either a "waste" of a pick that often enough gets cut during their first camp, or the biggest steal since Tom Brady.

 

No in between.

 

My first reaction was he's probably not going to make the team, but the more I read about the case, the more I realized it's not as it first seemed. I'm actually more concerned about him coming into his pro day and the combine overweight. That's a red flag to me. I watched a lot of his cut-ups on draftbreakdown. He's an incredibly disruptive force as a 3-tech. I pray he will be there for the Browns this fall and beyond.

 

Meanwhile, read this....

 

This is an incredible behind-the-scenes look at how the Browns maneuvered the draft, via @MikeSilver https://t.co/ArizyZlAUD

The UDFA signing which pleased me the most was Kai Nacua.  Big ball-hawking safety who NFL teams probably viewed as not athletic enough to make the same impact in the pros as he did in college.  We shall see.  Having a 'nose for the ball' is a lot like speed..... can't really be coached.

The UDFA signing which pleased me the most was Kai Nacua.  Big ball-hawking safety who NFL teams probably viewed as not athletic enough to make the same impact in the pros as he did in college.  We shall see.  Having a 'nose for the ball' is a lot like speed..... can't really be coached.

 

On Barking Hard forum, my favorite UDFAs for making the team were Stribling and Nacua. Stribling didn't get drafted because he's undersized. He weighs only 176 pounds, lacks upper-body strength, and is bad in run defense. But he's a tremendous cover corner. He's perfect for NFL nickel defenses.

 

Nacua didn't get drafted because he wasn't invited to the combine. It was that simple. If you don't get invited to the combine, you don't get drafted unless you've got the talent of Reuben Foster or Joe Mixon.

 

Nacua's athleticism is eclipsed only by his nose for the ball and his ferocious hitting. Peppers isn't asked to be a ball-hawker so having Nacua as the free safety would complement him well. And consider Nacua's athletic measurables from BY's pro day:

 

40-yard dash: 4.5 seconds

Vertical: 39 inches

Broad jump: 10 feet, seven inches

Bench press: 15 reps

 

Tom Pelissero‏Verified account @TomPelissero  5m5 minutes ago

 

Source: The NFL has denied #Browns WR Josh Gordon's reinstatement petition. He can reapply this fall.

 

With the NFL's latest denial of Josh Gordon's request for reinstatement, I saw this gem on twitter....

 

"If Josh Gordon had beaten Mary Jane instead of smoking her, he'd still be in the league."

It's a crude joke but very true.  The NFL is run by old guys who think marijuana is the devil but they are likely misogynists.

Great signing. This would have been a good idea even if Wilson hadn't gotten hurt. The holes on defense are getting smaller and smaller.....

 

Courtney Fallon‏Verified account

@CourtneyFallon_

Jason McCourty tells me he's putting pen to paper on a 2-year, 6M deal with the #Browns. 2M guaranteed. Big time addition to that roster.

 

 

 

And this is a pretty bold statement.....

 

Gordon McGuinness‏Verified account @PFF_Gordon  2h2 hours ago

If Cody Kessler takes a step forward in year two, I think the Browns can get to 8-8 or better in 2017

Criminal complaint against Caleb Brantley was dismissed.  He was the DT we took in the 6th who had dropped in the draft due to allegations he hit a woman.

^Good news only if there was no hanky-panky subverting a rightful claim by the woman... Otherwise the Browns end up getting a quality player for a badly needed position in a late round steal.

These pre-draft actions intended to reduce the draft position of, and thus the financial compensation due the player are getting out of hand. Right now, there appear to be no legal consequences for those perpetrating these actions that are clearly timed to harm potential draftees.

LOOK: Johnny Manziel gets in a workout with Giants' Odell Beckham Jr.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-johnny-manziel-gets-in-a-workout-with-giants-odell-beckham-jr/?ftag=SPM-05-10abb2i&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5925af2f04d3010936776f49&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

There's so many good things happening with this team and you want to bring "him" up? Allow me to turn the thread into a more forward-looking conversation......

 

There are reasons for optimism as Browns take field for OTAs

Updated May 23, 2017

Posted May 23, 2017

 

Off-season No. 2 under this regime seems much more focused

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- If the Browns' approach to this off-season seems more focused, there might be a good reason for it.

 

“Just time,” Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta said when he was asked what was different between Year One and Year Two following the completion of last month’s draft. “Time with everybody up here, time with the rest of our coaching staff, time with the rest of our scouts just to really try to get as defined a direction as possible where we know we are going the exact same direction.”

 

There were multiple points during the off-season when a member of the front office pointed to the quick turnaround following the firings of Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine after the 2015 season. On one hand, it felt like an excuse. Teams go through upheavals all the time and, as far as the Browns were concerned, they promoted from within when it came to their top football executive in Sashi Brown and hired Hue Jackson as coach relatively quickly.

 

That said, it’s hard to compare 2016 and 2017 and not see a stark difference. The Browns, last year, lost multiple starters in free agency and traded down twice in the first round of the draft before finally selecting Corey Coleman. They went heavy on Day 3 picks.

 

This year has a very different feel, at least in terms of focus, as the Browns take to the practice field for OTAs. The days of asset acquisition aren’t over -- they did trade down from No. 12, after all, for a first-round pick next season and took on Brock Osweiler’s contract for a future second-round pick -- but it’s easier to point to something on each side of the ball that represents a path forward.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/05/there_are_reasons_for_hope_as.html

Heard an interesting interview this week on WFAN in the New York market, where I live  - featuring Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank.  As I listened to this ultra-smart, excellent communicator and megabusinessman (Home Depot, etc.)  I thought - if only the Browns had been fortunate enough to get an owner like him - everything would be different.  Everything in the Falcons' organization's mindset considers the fan perspective - and really values the opinion of the fans.  THis is especially true of the recent new "Mercedes-Benz" stadium in Atlanta, which will be probably the finest football stadium in the NFL. It doesn't seem like Hazlam and the current ownership have ever connected with the Browns fans and ever seemed to care much about what they think and they certainly don't communicate well, IMO.  Kind of a tangent to that  - a late March CBS report says that the Browns apparently hate their current uniforms (as do many of us) and that they are considering a change to a "white helmet" when the Browns next opportunity to change uniforms occurs - that would be 2020.  (The Browns briefly had a white helmet back in the 40's, I believe.)  I wonder if they've bothered to get the fans opinion on that....

Browns do have a new owner. Her name is Dee.

The owner's name should be Receivership.

Corey Coleman not facing charges in the assault discussed a few pages back.  His brother and friend were indicted

Now that preseason is upon us, it's time to start talking Browns football and QB controversy!

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/03/deshone-kizer-moves-closer-to-starting-job/

Fairly good debut for Kizer last night.  Traditional thinking says to sit him for a year, but the most recent trends have been to throw the QBs right in the fire - Winston, Mariota, Carr, Prescott, etc.  I'm just not sure we have the weapons to do that.  The offensive 1's looked terrible.  I say cut Cam Erving today.  He is awful.  He's the worst 1st round pick in Browns history and I realize how bold of a statement that is.

 

Defense, on the other hand, looked great.  I love Williams' attacking style.  I'm sure his players do too.

Trivia question.  No cheating (google, etc.)  Since the Browns returned in 1999, two QBs are tied for most wins at the stadium with 10.  One is Derek Anderson.  Who is the other?

^i say definitely start Kizer vs the Giants next week.  Give him a shot with and against 1's.  See if he is still creatiing plays.  Osweiler looks like doo doo.  Erving, while really bad cant be the worst.  at least he WANTS TO PLAY.  Manziel and Gilbert was historically the worst first round draft picks anyone could make.  They were more interested in other things and now are both out of the league

Trivia question.  No cheating (google, etc.)  Since the Browns returned in 1999, two QBs are tied for most wins at the stadium with 10.  One is Derek Anderson.  Who is the other?

 

I'd guess either Couch.....or Ben Roethisberger (ouch!). 

^Ouch (not Couch) is right

Manziel and Gilbert was historically the worst first round draft picks anyone could make.

 

Cam Erving is worse than both of them combined.

^Ouch (not Couch) is right

 

Oh man. I wonder if Flacco is next.

 

From the first time I saw Cam Erving on the field I thought wow, that guy is really uncoordinated.

If Kizer plays with and against the first-teamers and plays well, then I start him Sept. 10. But he has to earn it. I don't want to just throw him onto the field to see if we have something before the 2018 QB-heavy draft arrives.

 

Unlike Manziel and Gilbert, I feel bad for Cam Erving. By all accounts he's a great kid. But he just doesn't belong in the NFL. And neither did Ray Farmer who owns those awful first-rounders.

 

The defensive line and most of the LBs looked great. Tank Carder was awful -- Joe Schobert looked good. The secondary was surprisingly good. BBC was a force out there. The only group who looked collectively bad was the WRs. It's too bad the Browns have to wait for the only cutdown date to look for discarded WRs. Because of their 1-15 record, they get first shot at players on the waiver wire. I'd also consider a trade, such as for Jordan Matthews who's been rumored to be on the block.

^Ouch (not Couch) is right

 

Oh man. I wonder if Flacco is next.

 

What's really sad is Big Ben is likely to take over the lead for wins this season

Oops, Jordan Matthews was just traded to the Bills who traded Sammy Watkins to the Rams.

Kizer will be a franchise quarterback. I'm not saying you start him right now, but I think this is the year to start a rookie. We have a solid offensive line who diagnoses most blitzes on their own anyway. That's a major plus for a rookie quarterback to lean on. Not to mention, one of the most efficient RB's in the game in Crowell.

 

As for the defense, I would like to see a few more field-zone-dog schemes from Gregg Williams. I know he plays his cards close to the vest in preseason, but our 1 and 3 techniques aren't physically able to stuff the run and force the ball outside. If we send more blitzes from the field - with Kirksey at Will - I think we force more and more runs to the boundary and that will help Jamie Collins & Co. clean up on the strong side.

Didn't get to see the game last night, unfortunately, but from what I've read Oswieler was terrible -- and from what my brother and some Houston friends warned me, is not surprising.  Quite frankly it may already be time to move on from him... I see that Kessler was decent, apparently, and was able to move the team for it's 1st TD... but that Kizer was, with a few hitches here n' there, was the show stopper.  Mary Kay was gushing -- both in print and on the radio -- about the cannon he has for an arm; but that he was accurate, too, for the most part.  It will be interesting to see him against an opponent's starters.  I've been excited about this kid since (in my opinion) we stole him with the 52nd pick.

 

... and apparently Garrett was a beast...

 

For the 1st time in a decade, I'm very excited about this season.  Looking to build and discernibly move forward as opposed to making the playoffs... Let's hope my hopes pan out.

Didn't get to see the game last night, unfortunately, but from what I've read Oswieler was terrible -- and from what my brother and some Houston friends warned me, is not surprising.  Quite frankly it may already be time to move on from him... I see that Kessler was decent, apparently, and was able to move the team for it's 1st TD... but that Kizer was, with a few hitches here n' there, was the show stopper.  Mary Kay was gushing -- both in print and on the radio -- about the cannon he has for an arm; but that he was accurate, too, for the most part.  It will be interesting to see him against an opponent's starters.  I've been excited about this kid since (in my opinion) we stole him with the 52nd pick.

 

... and apparently Garrett was a beast...

 

For the 1st time in a decade, I'm very excited about this season.  Looking to build and discernibly move forward as opposed to making the playoffs... Let's hope my hopes pan out.

 

Beyond his arm strength - which is terrific - is his pocket presence. He took one bad sack yesterday after the Saints dropped to Tampa 2 after showing cover 0 and I think it stunned him a bit. But that's growing pains that any quarterback will go through.

^Yes, I did read Kizer had some issues getting rid of the ball on a play or 2.  That's going to happen to rookie QBs because the pro game is so much faster -- although it happened to him at ND too, at times... I still think this kid will do well, esp with an O. line and a weapon here and there.

I'm afraid the WR unit is going to stop this team from making any significant improvement.  That's a shame.  So many good WRs.  Shouldn't be so hard to fix. 

 

On the bright side of things, this DT Trevon Cooley might be a diamond in the rough.  I've really liked what I've seen of him. 

So we go from Kosar to Kizer, a Youngstown guy to Toledo guy, the 21 year-old rookie quarterback to another 21 year old rookie quarterback, both tall and a bit gangly, and just 23 years between franchise quarterbacks?

 

A Browns fan can hope. That's what we do best!

So we go from Kosar to Kizer, a Youngstown guy to Toledo guy, the 21 year-old rookie quarterback to another 21 year old rookie quarterback, both tall and a bit gangly, and just 23 years between franchise quarterbacks?

 

A Browns fan can hope. That's what we do best!

 

Myself being someone that played four years of college football on the offensive side of the ball, I really would like to stick my neck on the line for this kid. Everything that is great about him, you CANNOT teach: Height, weight, arm strength, leadership.

 

He needs to continue to improve on his blitz recognition to the field side, improve pocket presence/awareness --> which thereby will help him get rid of the ball earlier, and notice man coverage disguises. A couple times against the Giants the defense merely rolled their safeties (showing zone Cover 2 and switching to Cover 1 man under) and Deshone didn't recognize it.

 

All in all, those are problems rookies are EXPECTED to have. I'm very excited about him and I haven't been excited about a Browns QB since they've come back. I honestly believe he will be all pro within 5 years. I hope I don't regret putting this in writing.

So we go from Kosar to Kizer, a Youngstown guy to Toledo guy, the 21 year-old rookie quarterback to another 21 year old rookie quarterback, both tall and a bit gangly, and just 23 years between franchise quarterbacks?

 

A Browns fan can hope. That's what we do best!

 

I think you are missing about 60 QBs in between those two.

Really wish there was a better option than Kizer.  It's going to be tough for him if he's getting thrown int he fire from Day 1.  He's better suited to be the starter in 2018 or 2019 with a bit better roster around him and some learning experience as the backup.

 

Oh well, just going to be another young QB thrown in there too soon.

Really wish there was a better option than Kizer.  It's going to be tough for him if he's getting thrown int he fire from Day 1.  He's better suited to be the starter in 2018 or 2019 with a bit better roster around him and some learning experience as the backup.

 

Oh well, just going to be another young QB thrown in there too soon.

 

Strongly disagree. He's GOING to make mistakes, but getting him those bruises early is not one of them. He isnt colt mccoy.

Really wish there was a better option than Kizer.  It's going to be tough for him if he's getting thrown int he fire from Day 1.  He's better suited to be the starter in 2018 or 2019 with a bit better roster around him and some learning experience as the backup.

 

Oh well, just going to be another young QB thrown in there too soon.

 

Kizer is gonna get physically beat from holding the ball too long or taking a hit while running and that will be that.

 

The NFL has a real problem in that it's product pretty much sucks in large part due to bad QB play.  Since the kids are not learning how to run a pro style offense in HS or College then the NFL will have to make accommodations so that their players can learn the game.

 

The "learn by doing" canard has serious limitations when applied to the NFL QB position. 

My concern is not with Kizer's preparedness, but with the WR corps he has to work with.  The old mantra of sitting QB for a year is not being practiced by most every other NFL team.  The league's best young QBs - Prescott, Winston, Marriota, Carr, Luck, Wilson - all started as rookies.  Going back some time, the Aaron Rogers examples are more the exception than the rule.  The QBs in our own division - Big Ben, Flacco, and Dalton - all started very early in their rookie years.

 

^Kizer ran a hybrid pro-style and spread offense at ND.  Most NFL teams use something similar.  "Pro-style" is becoming a bit of a misnomer with the evolution of the game.

I can't see the Browns starting Kizer in the 1st game against the Steelers. They bring too many schemes and will have a multi sack game against him.  An experienced qb is better when starting against a tough D like that. 

So we go from Kosar to Kizer, a Youngstown guy to Toledo guy, the 21 year-old rookie quarterback to another 21 year old rookie quarterback, both tall and a bit gangly, and just 23 years between franchise quarterbacks?

 

A Browns fan can hope. That's what we do best!

 

I think you are missing about 60 QBs in between those two.

 

And which franchise QBs were those?

 

I can't see the Browns starting Kizer in the 1st game against the Steelers. They bring too many schemes and will have a multi sack game against him.  An experienced qb is better when starting against a tough D like that. 

 

Sorry, but Pittsburgh's defense isn't that good. In fact, the first month of games isn't going to be as tough as many people claim. It's all based on past reputation -- Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indianapolis. None of them scare me. Yes, Pittsburgh is the best of them, but they only scare me on the offensive side of the ball. And I'm interested to see how the Browns defense does against them.

 

Sorry, but Pittsburgh's defense isn't that good. In fact, the first month of games isn't going to be as tough as many people claim. It's all based on past reputation -- Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indianapolis. None of them scare me. Yes, Pittsburgh is the best of them, but they only scare me on the offensive side of the ball. And I'm interested to see how the Browns defense does against them.

 

I cautiously agree with you KJP[/member] ... However, Gregg Williams loves to send those zone-boundary blitzes and with Antonio Brown on that side of the field, it could spell trouble in isolation for Joe Haden. No one is better at picking out 1 v 1 match-ups than Big Ben.