So it sounds like you're interested too. Pittsburgh's offense will be a tremendous test for the Browns defense. That's my only concern about Pittsburgh. I'm not worried about Pittsburgh's defense.

 

Sorry, but Pittsburgh's defense isn't that good. In fact, the first month of games isn't going to be as tough as many people claim. It's all based on past reputation -- Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indianapolis. None of them scare me. Yes, Pittsburgh is the best of them, but they only scare me on the offensive side of the ball. And I'm interested to see how the Browns defense does against them.

 

I cautiously agree with you KJP[/member] ... However, Gregg Williams loves to send those zone-boundary blitzes and with Antonio Brown on that side of the field, it could spell trouble in isolation for Joe Haden. No one is better at picking out 1 v 1 match-ups than Big Ben.

 

Williams isn't going to do it without taking personnel into account.  I'm sure he has a Pig Ben oriented scheme, considering the fact he's to play them twice this year.

I actually disagree, E Rocc. Williams has played schemes to compensate for personnel in the past. But, perhaps you're right. Time will tell, as we have only seen vanilla looks from us to this point.

Looks like Kizer is going to start the season against the Steelers.

 

I'm happy for Kizer and for Browns fans. I actually feel excitement about watching this kid play. Still lots of unpolished aspects to Kizer's game, but I haven't felt that way about a rookie Browns QB in 32 years.

 

The Brock Osweiler era is over. 

We hardly knew ya. The cuts the Browns made this afternoon and before are paying most of the cost of eating Brock's contract....

 

Daryl Ruiter ✔ @RuiterWrongFAN

How did #Browns minimize hit of Osweiler's $16 mil? Cut Haden $4M, Bryant $3M, Greco $3M, Parkey 690k, Trade Erving $1.2M = $11.89M saved

this is fantastic!

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/shirt_proclaiming_cleveland_br.html#incart_river_mobile_home_pop

 

Wonderful...the Browns and Cleveland Police are at the center of a controversy that is now a national story:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20562272/unions-refuse-hold-flag-cleveland-browns-opener

Wonderful...the Browns and Cleveland Police are at the center of a controversy that is now a national story:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20562272/unions-refuse-hold-flag-cleveland-browns-opener

Pretty fitting considering Loomis is the type of person who makes this kind of protest relevant.

Pretty fitting considering Loomis is the type of person who makes this kind of protest relevant.

 

I was watching ESPN this morning and one of the commentator essentially made the same point. What a mess.

Since this discussion belongs in the current events section, I'm going to applaud the Browns for upgrading their wide receiving corps, at least on paper. Coates is a big play receiver but has a knack for dropping passes. The Browns got him for Justin Gilbert, albeit in a roundabout way. This is the Browns chance for turning the prior regime's mistake (one of so many) into something positive.

 

And I LOVE the waiver wire pickup of Kesan Williams. He's not the fastest downfield receiver, but he is quick off the LOS. He's big, strong, has terrific body control and has great hands. In a web poll before he was cut, 77% of Seattle fans said Williams would be the biggest loss if the Seahawks waived him. Indianapolis also put in a bid for Williams while trading former first-round WR Phillip Dorsett. But the Browns, by virtue of their league-worst records last year, get priority over all other teams on the waiver wire. Williams is also a terror on special teams. He gets downfield quickly and makes good tackles.

 

Pretty fitting considering Loomis is the type of person who makes this kind of protest relevant.

 

I was watching ESPN this morning and one of the commentator essentially made the same point. What a mess.

Loomis tends to insert himself even when it's not needed. Hoping the Browns players stick to their guns.

4 QBs and 4 CBs?  What a bunch of idiots running this show.

4 QBs and 4 CBs?  What a bunch of idiots running this show.

 

I didn't realize the Browns said they were done shaping their roster.

 

Why do you think the Browns FO are idiots? To the contrary, Sashi & Co.have done just about everything right since coming on board.

With the release of today's unofficial depth chart, here's the state of the last 3 drafts. Is this volume-draft concept working? Need W's and real games that matter to know, but below is a quick look as to how it's panning out to date.

 

Starter tally is at 13 over the 3 years, and some-roster fillers/heavy-contributors after that.

 

2015 draft class

 

1st Round (#12): NT Danny Shelton - starter

1st Round (#19): OL Cameron Erving - traded for a 5th rounder

2nd Round (#51): OLB Nate Orchard - 53 man, will rotate

3rd Round (#77): RB Duke Johnson - 2nd string, heavy-rotation

3rd Round (#96): DT Xavier Cooper - released, Niners picked him up

4th Round (#115): S Ibraheim Campbell - 2nd string safety

4th Round (#123): WR Vince Mayle - released

6th Round (#189): CB Charles Gaines - released

6th Round (#195): FB Malcolm Johnson - released

6th Round (#198): TE Randall Telfer - starter

7th Round (#219): ILB Hayes Pullard - released

7th Round (#241): CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - injured/released

 

 

2016 draft class

 

1st Round (#15): WR Corey Coleman - starter

2nd Round (#32): DE Emmanuel Ogbah - starter

3rd Round (#65): DE Carl Nassib - 2nd string, heavy-rotation position

3rd Round (#76): OT Shon Coleman - starter

3rd Round (#93): QB Cody Kessler - 2nd string

4th Round (#99): LB Joe Schobert - starter

4th Round (#114): WR Ricardo Louis - 2nd string, heavy-sub position

4th Round (#129): S Derrick Kindred - starter

4th Round (#138): TE Seth DeValve - 2nd string, heavy-rotation position

5th Round (#154): WR Jordan Payton - released

5th Round (#168): OT Spencer Drango - hanging around

5th Round (#172): WR Rashard Higgins - practice squad

5th Round (#173): CB Trey Caldwell - released

7th Round (#250): ILB Scooby Wright III - released

7th Round (trade): CB Jamar Taylor - starter

 

 

2017 draft class

 

1st Round (#1): DE Myles Garrett - starter

1st Round (#25): S Jabrill Peppers - starter

1st Round (#29): TE David Njoku - back-up

2nd Round (#52): QB DeShone Kizer - starter

3rd Round (#65): DT Larry Ogunjobi - 2nd string, heavy-rotation position

3rd Round (#103): LB Jamie Collins - starter

4th Round (#126): CB Howard Wilson - PUP list

5th Round (#160): OT Roderick Johnson - IR

6th Round (#185): DT Caleb Brantley - 53 man, will rotate

7th Round (#224): K Zane Gonzalez - starter

7th Round (#252): RB Matthew Dayes - 53 man, value pick

 

 

Recall, here's Depo's philosophy:

 

4 QBs and 4 CBs?  What a bunch of idiots running this show.

 

I didn't realize the Browns said they were done shaping their roster.

 

Why do you think the Browns FO are idiots? To the contrary, Sashi & Co.have done just about everything right since coming on board.

 

Still 4 QBs, 4 CBs.  Pointless.

You're not going to keep posting that every few hours, are you? Patience, my boy.

You're not going to keep posting that every few hours, are you? Patience, my boy.

 

The depth chart is set, no?

 

Cutting Haden and Bitonio signal "winning" isn't exactly a priority this season...again.  Oh well.  See you guys at the draft.

You're not going to keep posting that every few hours, are you? Patience, my boy.

 

The depth chart is set, no?

 

Cutting Haden and Bitonio signal "winning" isn't exactly a priority this season...again.  Oh well.  See you guys at the draft.

 

When was Bitonio cut?  Haden hasn't had a good season since 2013....what are you mad about?

Bitonio?? If you mean Cam "The Scam" Erving, you haven't been watching. He's been awful and the prior regime picked him and other awful first-rounders.

 

Ditto for Haden, who had the worst preseason PFF stats among Browns CBs this preseason. He's been slow out of his breaks and couldn't keep up with WRs. He hasn't recovered from his injuries and it's doubtful he will as he was declining BEFORE his injuries the last two years....

 

From an article in April:

 

CB Joe Haden has been the cornerstone of the Browns defense for years, but his recent decline has made him a liability.

 

+ Haden was tied for sixth in the NFL for most touchdowns given up (six) last season.

+ Haden also allowed the 12th-most yards per coverage snap at 1.48.

+ 10 missed tackles in 2016 were the highest total in his career.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-hadens-decline-might-lead-the-browns-to-lean-cb-in-the-draft

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/browns-cut-s-calvin-pryor-reportedly-fight-teammate-182253138.html

 

Calvin Pryor fights teammate, get cut.

And Kai Nacua gets moved up from the practice squad to the active roster.  Win-win.

Redirected from the Indians thread...

 

 

Anecdotally, my dorm floor (OSU) showed a lot more interested in the Tribe game/win streak than the Browns game today (a lot of Cleveland faithful here).

 

Not surprising. People younger than 35 have no memory of the Browns being a decent team. That’s about to change whether Kizer grows or the Browns use their draft assets in 2018 to pick one of the top QBs. But in his first game yesterday, Kizer looked like he belonged on an NFL field. Fingers crossed.

 

BTW, the reasons why Haden was cut were quite evident yesterday.

Sad about the loss, but actually happy with the way the Browns played. That defense FLIES to the ball and breaks down when they get there (most of the time).

 

Most important of all, I think even the most ignorant of Browns fans can realize that there is something special in Kizer...

 

Not the "special" label people applied to Manziel whilst scream "BUT HE MAKES THINGS HAPPEN!!!".... I'm referring to the special that is between the ears.

I'm really excited because yesterday showed that the Browns FINALLY have a highly capable, highly talented and highly poised quarterback.  Yes Kizer held the ball too often accounting for the 7 sacks, but that's an issue all kids have coming into the NFL which is 10-times faster than college -- even Notre Dame.  I was particularly impressed at the poise and drive Kizer showed in marching us down for the late score -- esp the 4th and 2 bullet TD pass to Coleman in the end zone to bring us within 3 points, following the 2-pt conversion, late in the 4th that gave us a chance to win had we been able to stop the Steelers on their last  drive, which of course we didn't... How many times have we seen Browns teams and their QB's fold under the kind of onslaught Pittsburgh administered in the 2nd half on both sides of the ball?

 

No doubt, Kizer is a keeper.  He had IIRC an 88 passer rating (for whatever that scale is worth) and was widely praised from all sides, including from Ben Roethlisberger, a 2-time SB winner who considers DeShone a hometown kid as they both grew up in NW Ohio... Big Ben was highly impressed with the kid and that's high praise...

 

Now the negative...

 

If the Browns cut Kenny Britt tomorrow I would not shed a tear.  This guy's a bum and he dropped a wide open pass that could have gone for 6 at a key moment in the 2nd half... He's shown me nothing during his stint in Cleveland from preseason to yesterday; he makes me miss Terrelle Pryor even more, who did some nice things for Washington in losing to the Eagles yesterday.  Pryor was really hard on himself for a couple key drops, though... Think Britt would ever be so forthright and honest even after giving a good effort? ... don't hold your breath.

 

Obviously Crowell (and our other RBs) could never get uncorked yesterday; blame is likely evenly divided evenly between him and his offensive line.  Obviously we're going to need some more offensive balance or tough D-teams teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore or going key on Kizer all game...

 

Even though I am NOT into moral victories of any kind, I do see a number of positives out of yesterday's loss, esp w/r to No. 7 under center and by the fact than neither he nor the team quit and fought to the end against a team that many pundits see heading to the Super Bowl.  Obviously our inability to put adequate pressure on Ben or stop Antonio Brown led to our demise, but I'm looking forward to seeing progress vs. the Ravens next week.

 

 

 

:-) im ok...

Virtually everyone was saying that the Indy game was a must-win situation. I'm not sure why though. I can not point to any area of the game which even remotely hinted that the Browns were better that the Colts in any measurable way. Plus the Colts were at home.

 

Either Hugh Jackson is going to be afforded a few years to fix things or Haslem can blow it all up....again.

 

You just can't keep replacing coaches. Now it's aggravating that they (Greg Williams especially) seem to have this arrogance which is absolutely undeserved, but all these guys think they're rocket scientists, so what can you do? I just know that more upheaval right now is not the answer.

 

It's still way too early in the season to judge a team with a rookie QB surrounded by subpar skill position players.

It was pretty bad all around, but what really stuck out to me was our wooden handed receiving corps.

Hue and the current regime are doing a good job keeping fans from turning on them, so far...

 

I hope it continues because they need time to build this team from the ground up. The Browns cannot continue their dysfunctional pattern of blowing it all up every two years.

It was pretty bad all around, but what really stuck out to me was our wooden handed receiving corps.

 

Agreed.  If you've made it to this level and still haven't learned how to catch the ball consistently--there's something wrong.  What's the latest on J Gordon?

It was pretty bad all around, but what really stuck out to me was our wooden handed receiving corps.

 

Agree.  + Kizer's inaccuracy.  Hard to tell how many of the inaccurate passes were bad routes and/or miscommunication between him and the receivers or just plain inaccuracy.  I'm pretty worried that it was the latter. 

It was pretty bad all around, but what really stuck out to me was our wooden handed receiving corps.

 

Agree.  + Kizer's inaccuracy.  Hard to tell how many of the inaccurate passes were bad routes and/or miscommunication between him and the receivers or just plain inaccuracy.  I'm pretty worried that it was the latter. 

 

I think one of the nocks against him coming out of college was inaccuracy and not being consistent.

I might quibble with some of the playcalling but I'm with Hue about the front office.  We have enormous cap space; there was no reason to skimp on Haden or Pryor.  Neither player offered ideal money value, but both were legit NFL starters and they solidified extremely weak areas of the roster.  Can't build anything if we keep knocking out the foundation.  Our weakness at receiver and DB puts needless pressure on Kizer.  If we were going to field a bargain basement roster, on purpose, we would have been better off starting Hogan for at least half the year.

I might quibble with some of the playcalling but I'm with Hue about the front office.  We have enormous cap space; there was no reason to skimp on Haden or Pryor.  Neither player offered ideal money value, but both were legit NFL starters and they solidified extremely weak areas of the roster.  Can't build anything if we keep knocking out the foundation.  Our weakness at receiver and DB puts needless pressure on Kizer.  If we were going to field a bargain basement roster, on purpose, we would have been better off starting Hogan for at least half the year.

Their cap space is going to get squeezed next year, based off of the contracts thu handed out this year to Collins, Bitonio, and a few others. They only have 28m available next year and that's with several roster spots still to be filled.

 

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/25/browns-salary-cap-room-takes-big-hit-in-2018-and-beyond/

Hey the forum is back online.  How are the Browns doing? ;)

They're on pace to be 8 and 8.

Now that he's been ordered to get rid of the ball, anyone else notice that Kizer just really locks on to one receiver?

 

It's as if he's playing with a neckbrace. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/1/nfl-trade-deadline-roundup-browns-mccarron-mmqb-newsletter

 

Just when you think they can't go any lower...

 

Browns bungle deadline trade with Bengals - the Browns front office forgot to make the trade call to the league office before the 4 p.m. deadline.  Cleveland was set to acquire AJ McCarron from the Bengals for two draft picks in 2018.

 

I'm sure that will boost DeShone Kizer's confidence.

^Can't see how McCarron was worth a 2nd and a 3rd anyways, so that has to be the silver lining. 

 

I'll be joining in the parade this year if they actually go 0-16.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/1/nfl-trade-deadline-roundup-browns-mccarron-mmqb-newsletter

 

Just when you think they can't go any lower...

 

Browns bungle deadline trade with Bengals - the Browns front office forgot to make the trade call to the league office before the 4 p.m. deadline.  Cleveland was set to acquire AJ McCarron from the Bengals for two draft picks in 2018.

 

I'm sure that will boost DeShone Kizer's confidence.

 

There's controversy of course.  The Browns sent the signed docs to the Bengals who were supposed to countersign and forward.  The Bengals just sent their own to the league.

^ That's BS. If they really wanted to make sure this went through, they would have copied the NFL office's email on the email they sent to the Bengals. This wasn't negligence, this was their way of copping out of the trade because someone got cold feet at the (literal) last minute. Trying to blame the Bengals for this is just chickentsh!t. Come out and say the truth. Jimmy spoke to his homeless muse who told him it wasn't a good idea and they decided to pull out.

Dee Haslam supposedly "went nuclear" on the front office yesterday.  They're done.

I'm glad the McCarron trade didn't go through. If Garoppolo was worth a second-rounder, there's no way McCarron was worth a second- AND a third-rounder.

 

Meanwhile, today is another great day for the Browns: Deshaun Watson was named the AFC offensive player of the month and Carson Wentz the NFC offensive POM.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/1/nfl-trade-deadline-roundup-browns-mccarron-mmqb-newsletter

 

Just when you think they can't go any lower...

 

Browns bungle deadline trade with Bengals - the Browns front office forgot to make the trade call to the league office before the 4 p.m. deadline.  Cleveland was set to acquire AJ McCarron from the Bengals for two draft picks in 2018.

 

I'm sure that will boost DeShone Kizer's confidence.

 

There's controversy of course.  The Browns sent the signed docs to the Bengals who were supposed to countersign and forward.  The Bengals just sent their own to the league.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/28786/running-out-of-time-inside-the-browns-botched-trade-attempt-for-aj-mccarron

 

Nope, the Browns failed to notify the league.

 

Some rumors/speculation/conspiracy theory is that the Browns FO haggled because they don't like Hue Jackson and Hue was the guy who wanted McCarron.  So they dawdled until the last minute and then it was either 1) too late or 2) done purposefully too late to make it seem like the blame should be on the league when it was their fault.

I'm glad the McCarron trade didn't go through. If Garoppolo was worth a second-rounder, there's no way McCarron was worth a second- AND a third-rounder.

 

Meanwhile, today is another great day for the Browns: Deshaun Watson was named the AFC offensive player of the month and Carson Wentz the NFC offensive POM.

The issue the Browns had with Watson was supposedly they were concerned about his style of play making him prone to injury, much like RGIII.  So they don't look quite so dumb on this one.

I'm glad the McCarron trade didn't go through. If Garoppolo was worth a second-rounder, there's no way McCarron was worth a second- AND a third-rounder.

 

Meanwhile, today is another great day for the Browns: Deshaun Watson was named the AFC offensive player of the month and Carson Wentz the NFC offensive POM.

The issue the Browns had with Watson was supposedly they were concerned about his style of play making him prone to injury, much like RGIII.  So they don't look quite so dumb on this one.

 

Right--he didn't even make it out of a PRACTICE on Thursday.  Hopefully Deshaun will mellow out and mature for the Texans, but there's a greater chance he'll continue to get hurt and be another RGIII.

The issue the Browns had with Watson was supposedly they were concerned about his style of play making him prone to injury, much like RGIII.  So they don't look quite so dumb on this one.

 

Two days ago, no. Today, yes. Ten years from now?

Valar Brownhulis

have permits been secured downtown for the ofer parade?

have permits been secured downtown for the ofer parade?

 

Don't get your hopes up....or down. There's still the Charger game.

 

LA(me)