On 12/8/2019 at 4:47 PM, Boxtruffles said:

Ayo they did it!

 

A win is a win is a win. I just hopen OBJ's injury is not too severe-apparently an inguinal hernia or something like that? Not being able to practice till Fridays is probably hurting his ability to connect with Baker. Hopefully they can keep winning and maybe even pull a win over that stolen rat-team.

I'm just happy the brownies can play some entertaining football and somewhat meaningful games..  touchdowns are nice, way more fun to watch than drives that end in a chris gardocki punt, or a dawson field goal.. for a long time, I thought they should change the name to Cleveland Browns FC ?

 

got a couple more W's coming this way this season!

Oof.

Awful awful awful.  Should have been a day to display all the offensive weapons.   Instead, they looked like they had barely ever played together. 

I hate to say it but I think Freddie Kitchens has lost this team. What say you @YABO713?

He can't handle the role at this point, and it's unfair to all of us fans who have rooted for this team through thick and thin for him to stick around as head coach for another year.  There's way too much talent on the team right now for them to be 6-8, with multiple losses against rookie and 3rd string quarterbacks.

3 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

He can't handle the role at this point, and it's unfair to all of us fans who have rooted for this team through thick and thin for him to stick around as head coach for another year.  There's way too much talent on the team right now for them to be 6-8, with multiple losses against rookie and 3rd string quarterbacks.

 

This season was a whole new level of frustrating to witness, for several reasons I don't want to even discuss. This is the wrong franchise to expect patience in allowing a head coach learn on the job. I'm firmly on the get Ron Rivera bandwagon as of today. 

11 hours ago, stpats44113 said:

I hate to say it but I think Freddie Kitchens has lost this team. What say you @YABO713?

 

I agree. And as someone who worked through rebuilds in college, that's a problem that you cannot escape. 

 

Ultimately, I want continuity - but you have to have players that trust their coach, and I don't see that anymore. 

 

Nonetheless... a big L-O-L to people that want to get rid of Dorsey. 

27 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I agree. And as someone who worked through rebuilds in college, that's a problem that you cannot escape. 

 

Ultimately, I want continuity - but you have to have players that trust their coach, and I don't see that anymore. 

 

Nonetheless... a big L-O-L to people that want to get rid of Dorsey. 

 

I think maybe a new OC is in order -- keep Freddie for consistency, but get someone else in there to call the plays. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

I agree. And as someone who worked through rebuilds in college, that's a problem that you cannot escape. 

 

Ultimately, I want continuity - but you have to have players that trust their coach, and I don't see that anymore. 

 

Nonetheless... a big L-O-L to people that want to get rid of Dorsey. 

 

Not saying I want to get rid of Dorsey, but some of this goes on him.  He has a penchant for getting talented players with character issues at a discount.  So we have a talented team losing at least partly because of character.  Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture, but it wasn't a good place to put a new head coach.  The whole thing is a mismatch and so ends up less than the sum of it's parts.

Of course even before Dorsey the Browns seemed to be fond of selecting those kind of players.

 

Edited December 16, 20195 yr by skiwest

1 hour ago, X said:

 

Not saying I want to get rid of Dorsey, but some of this goes on him.  He has a penchant for getting talented players with character issues at a discount.  So we have a talented team losing at least partly because of character.  Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture, but it wasn't a good place to put a new head coach.  The whole thing is a mismatch and so ends up less than the sum of it's parts.

 

Bottom line is... It's the GM's responsible to put talent on the field. The Browns, talent wise, are top 5 in the NFL. 

If this is indeed true then I'd want these players traded asap. Then again I'm on the verge of giving up on the NFL anyhow. The league is a joke. 

 

Multiple Browns say 'come get me' to Cardinals

 

By Nick Shook

Around The NFL Writer

Published: Dec. 16, 2019 at 03:02 p.m.

 

Come get me.

 

What a phrase, a request, a desperate plea for freedom that is those three words. We first heard it uttered in the NFL last season, when disgruntled safety Earl Thomas asked the Dallas Cowboys to acquire him from the Seattle Seahawks. We heard it again in recent rumors describing Odell Beckham Jr. as unhappy in Cleveland.

 

After Sunday's Browns loss to the Cardinals, it sounds as if such a desire is spreading like a virus.

 

NFL Network's Michael Silver reported per two sources as the Week 15 contest ended, "multiple" Browns players yelled toward the Arizona sideline to "come get me," including wide receiver Jarvis Landry.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001088854/article/multiple-browns-say-come-get-me-to-cardinals

Per Mike Silver. Got it.

7 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Bottom line is... It's the GM's responsible to put talent on the field. The Browns, talent wise, are top 5 in the NFL. 

Dorsey was also responsible for hiring a head coach.  He chose someone with half a year experience as an offensive coordinator, and let him be head coach and offensive coordinator.

Our top 5 talent team will end the season with a losing record.

8 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Bottom line is... It's the GM's responsible to put talent on the field. The Browns, talent wise, are top 5 in the NFL. 

 

I know you understand football better than me by a mile, but I would think that the bottom line for the GM is that he needs to put the right combination of people on the field together to win games and eventually championships.  Individual player and coach talent is a huge part of that, but it seems to me that it is not the only part.  Shouldn't a GM also be thinking about individual character and group culture?  About how the pieces fit together in terms of their relative strengths and weaknesses?  Or maybe that's all on the coaches and team captains?

 

Or maybe the problem needs to be solved at the next level up from the GM.....

15 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Bottom line is... It's the GM's responsible to put talent on the field. The Browns, talent wise, are top 5 in the NFL. 

 

To Dorsey's credit--the program he put in place in KC is still a perennial contender, even with some injury troubles this season.   The building blocks of the Browns are in place--they just haven't been put together properly.  

8 hours ago, X said:

 

I know you understand football better than me by a mile, but I would think that the bottom line for the GM is that he needs to put the right combination of people on the field together to win games and eventually championships.  Individual player and coach talent is a huge part of that, but it seems to me that it is not the only part.  Shouldn't a GM also be thinking about individual character and group culture?  About how the pieces fit together in terms of their relative strengths and weaknesses?  Or maybe that's all on the coaches and team captains?

 

Or maybe the problem needs to be solved at the next level up from the GM.....

 

Character matters, sure. But from all accounts, the "risky" players like Kareem Hunt have been exemplary teammates since coming to town. 

 

It's been previously reliable players: Randall, Garrett, etc. that have caused personnel issues 

20 hours ago, X said:

 

Not saying I want to get rid of Dorsey, but some of this goes on him.  He has a penchant for getting talented players with character issues at a discount.  So we have a talented team losing at least partly because of character.  Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture, but it wasn't a good place to put a new head coach.  The whole thing is a mismatch and so ends up less than the sum of it's parts.

 

 

Quote

Maybe a stronger and more experienced coach can control those issues and build a winning culture

This. They don't need a friend or someone to love them-they have friends/loved ones for that...they need a strong leader who can contain all of the different "strong" personalities. They need an alpha type that they will respect, otherwise you get chaos.  The new head coach needs to be a (sorry for mentioning him) Satan/Saban in this kind of situation. Someone to be feared and respected. JMHO.

5 hours ago, Toddguy said:

This. They don't need a friend or someone to love them-they have friends/loved ones for that...they need a strong leader who can contain all of the different "strong" personalities. They need an alpha type that they will respect, otherwise you get chaos.  The new head coach needs to be a (sorry for mentioning him) Satan/Saban in this kind of situation. Someone to be feared and respected. JMHO.

 

Greg Williams was that personality as well....

Freddie benching Njoku and Vernon today. Browns benching Freddie after the season. Fans benched the Browns a long time ago...

 

 

And Tideon is benching out a significant amount of last night's whiskey before the game. 

Freddie's final nail in the coffin, summarized in just three tweets....

AND

AND

 

Edited December 22, 20195 yr by KJP

28 minutes ago, KJP said:

Freddie's final nail in the coffin, summarized in just three tweets....

AND

AND

 

Yeah, pretty much all of that^. This team, as constructed, can’t wait around for Kitchens to “figure it out” if ever; this team is seemingly talented enough to at least compete for a playoff spot right now, and the windows for certain players are open right now before guys need to get paid or let go and the Browns can’t waste these coming years. 

Go get a veteran HC with some playoff experience.

One thing I don't understand is why with all the talent Browns receivers never seem to be open. Ever.

Right. It always seems like they are playing short-handed.

I finally used one of my season tickets

for myself today.  

 

Had a great time in the first half, until the last minute and a half.

 

Im now bald because I ripped all of

my hair out

So Freddie dialed up that trick play on 3rd and 2 in the 1st half just before the 2 min warning. It didn't work. Not a good decision but not quite the end of the world either.  What is so confounding however, is hearing Freddie's press conference where he says if the play didn't lose so many yards he had planned on going for it on 4th down. 

 

How? How is that possible to even consider in that situation? 

This pains me to say...Freddie is a Shaker guy, goes to my church, seems like a reallllly friendly person...but man, his coaching leaves so much to be desired.  His decisions and preparation resemble more of the car salesman that he was before he got into coaching and less of an NFL head coach. Why does he make things so hard?

 

 

Browns down 20 to 7 in the 2nd against the Bengals with 10 min to go. If Freddie isn’t out of the building by 6pm tonite...

Kitchens fired, per Jake Trotter ESPN

Hope that they get Ron Rivera...and LT Austin Jackson. 

Edited December 30, 20195 yr by KJP

Avoiding talk of today's game of ex-coach Freddie ? ... found an interesting article on the 1964 Browns:

 

Strange case of the 1964 champion Browns football cards

Ken Krsolovic

Dec 18, 2019

 

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/cards/1964-champion-browns-football-cards

11 hours ago, KJP said:

Hope that they get Ron Rivera...and LT Austin Jackson. 

It was reported that Rivera may be going to the Redskins.

So here's the deal guys... I finally came around to agreeing that Freddie had to go... but I've seen some wildly reckless and ignorant opinions as to the new hire. 

 

In my opinion - with the roster we have, we should not even be entertaining the thought of Urban Meyer or Lincoln Riley. If we experiment on a coach with no NFL experience, we're in a worse boat than we were with Freddie. 

 

In my opinion, a culture change is more important than a schematic change, and I believe the latter will follow organically if the first is addressed. We need someone like Ron Rivera, Mike McCarthy, or Eric Bieniemy. Those three guys would be my short list - Bienimy has only two years of OC experience, but has been in the NFL for nearly a decade, most of which under Andy Reid. 

 

Fact is, we have OBJ, Landry, Chubb, Baker, Myles Garrett, and Kareem Hunt all entering their prime or in their prime next season - that cannot be wasted on someone who won't be a stabilizing influence on this team. 

My concern with Mike McCarthy is that he seemed to lose the team in the last couple of years to the point that his players were openly mocking him. On the other hand, I was impressed that the Panthers players spoke out against firing of Ron Rivera. I don't know too much about Eric Bieniemy as a coach.

 

+++++++

 

Pretty serious stuff here about McCarthy....

 

But even in the best of times—when confetti should've still been stuck to their clothing—one person who was then close to Rodgers remembers he would regularly call to vent that McCarthy didn't have a clue what he was doing. He'd tell him that McCarthy frequently called the wrong play. That he used the wrong personnel. That they were running plays that worked one out of 50 times in practice. That McCarthy was a buffoon he was constantly bailing out.

 

"Mike has a low football IQ, and that used to always bother Aaron," this source says. "He'd say Mike has one of the lowest IQs, if not the lowest IQ, of any coach he's ever had."

Adds a personnel man who worked for the Packers at the time: "He's not going to respect you if he thinks he's smarter than you."

 

And then, as time moved on and the team plateaued, the facade fell away. Cracks in the foundation of this arranged marriage became impossible to ignore.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay.amp.html

 

But there's this article, but it also poses some tough questions about McCarthy....

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2019/12/18/many-green-bay-packers-hope-mike-mccarthy-lands-another-head-coaching-job/

Edited December 30, 20195 yr by KJP

Mcarthy is not the right choice. He is a decent coach and would certainly improve the Brown's fortunes but you have to think that he may not have much left in the tank for another run. He just seemed to run out of energy the last few years in GB.

 

Rivera would be a better choice for Cleveland. He put together a consistent winner before injuries in Carolina with key players ran their course.

 

McDaniels is not coming to Cleveland. Did not come last year, will not come this year either.

 

Bienemy would be a good choice. Andy Reid's acolytes seem to do well.  The question is whether he has better options than the Browns. Yes, the talent is much improved, but the short lease and constant coaching changes that ownership makes does not do well for continuity and all things being equal would make it a less attractive opportunity.

 

 

Seeing some Jim Harbaugh to Browns trolls having fun today lol.

The Mike McCarthy-less Packers won 13 games this year. I'd caution anybody interviewing him for another job. I'd take Rivera over him for sure.

Word on the street is that McCarthy bunkered himself and his assistants in Georgia and did nothing but watch football, identifying new schemes and approaches.  The knock on him was that the game passed him by.  If he acknowledged that and works to re invent his approach, then he is fine. He already showed he could run a group of men and lead them to success 

I am more interested in the power struggle between Dorsey and DePodesta.  "Football instincts" vs "Moneyball".  

 

An ideal situation is a combination of both gut feel from experience and analytics, but the Haslams have not shown any ability to create a decent situation, much less of an ideal one.

 

 

Dorsey our per Schefter at ESPN

I think this was a mistake. Dorsey was the best GM we have had in evaluating talent the new browns have ever had. His biggest mistake was kitchens.

Can we add trading away draft pics to move up to get Calloway as another blunder?

He had great hits, awful misses (some were safe bets, some were just gambles) but most were mediocre.

 

Per Mary Kay’s article DePodesta isn’t taking over football ops so that potentially leaves the door open for McDaniels to bring his own GM or whomever they hire to either have greater roster authority or bring someone with them who will?‍♂️

I could give this report!  The news in Cleveland is so bad!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5bG6SMBRw

 

So Dorsey wanted to keep Kitchens?? Should I believe that? 

From reports Kitchen did seem genuinely surprised that he was being let go, He felt the organization was behind him,  maybe he was talking to Dorsey who Felt he could sell the Haslam’s on one more season with Kitchens.

Maybe?  Im speculating

Edited January 1, 20205 yr by punch

And the ongoing destruction of the once great Cleveland Browns continues under the Haslams, who have to be some of the worst owners of a professional sports franchise in America.

 

How many times have we been through this? Is this time around supposed to give us a different result? I’ll bet a six pack that within the next two years we’ll be doing this same weak, old, tired dance all over again, no matter who they hire as the new coach and GM as long as the Haslams own the team

 

 

Edited January 1, 20205 yr by Oldmanladyluck

If they hire anyone other than McCarthy, McDaniels or Meyer (people who have run an organization before), we will be doing this all over again. This job is not cut out for a coordinator to try to take a step up