1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

^ actually mayfield now has one more win at cbs than big ben.

 

so speaking of, how hurt are mayfield's ribs exactly?

 

i guess we'll know more after today.

 

also, obj sent home sick. dk why.

OBJ sent home "out of an abundance of caution" because he is sick. negative for Covid-19 so far but they are waiting for the results of another test apparently. Hopefully this latest test will also come back negative.

Just saw this on the Watercooler....

 

NFL stars reached that level because they were standouts in college and especially in high school. Myles Garrett had this for a game in high school. ONE. GAME...

 

Myles Garrett vs Weatherford High -- 9 sacks, 2 FF, 1 FR, 1 Punt Block.

https://www.hudl.com/video/3/617331/5721b90119a53e2a18518641

 

Injuries + Steelers= Old Browns.  😞

5 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Injuries + Steelers= Old Browns.  😞

Browns=old Browns

Ugh...watching this game was the "fun thing" I was going to get to do on my "day off".  Now, back to work for the rest of my "day off".

 

Thanks, Browns.

25 minutes ago, X said:

Ugh...watching this game was the "fun thing" I was going to get to do on my "day off".  Now, back to work for the rest of my "day off".

 

Thanks, Browns.

Yeah, that wasn’t fun.  I was nervous before the game because of all the players on the Browns either out or playing injured. Not to mention Chubb and Greedy Williams on IR

 

Cleveland Browns at Pittsburgh Steelers

Browns: OUT: G Wyatt Teller (calf), S Ronnie Harrison (concussion), S Karl Joseph (hamstring), LB Jacob Phillips; QUESTIONABLE: WR Odell Beckham (illness), QB Baker Mayfield (chest), WR Jarvis Landry (ribs/hip), DE Olivier Vernon (groin), Larry Ogunjobi (abdomen)

 

Steelers: OUT: WR Diontae Johnson (back), G David DeCastro (abdomen)

 

 

Thoughts coming tomorrow. And boy oh boy do I have some thoughts. 

*sigh*.  They need to shake this off, try and learn from it, get healthy, and move forward.  

Alright folks.... Week 6 thoughts:

 

Special Teams

• This needs to be addressed, but our KOR schemes are BAD. It's an insult when teams kick it between the 5 and goal line because they'd rather you return it than give a touchback. In particular, Priefer seems REALLY committed to pre-determining the direction of the return (which is okay from time to time) but has really played against us with good directional kickers, as DPJ has to return has to make up ground across the field instead of North and South. 
• Our punt return team is pretty damn good though, and we would've had a block had it not been for an uncalled hold. 

Offense

• Baker was obviously playing hurt, and I can't fault him for that - dude is a competitor
• However, he did an abysmal job with his snap counts yesterday - which is something wholly irrelevant to an injury. We should've had 5-6 penalties drawn on TJ Watt and Stefon Tuitt if we would've just went with a hard count more frequently. There were a number of plays where the Steelers were out of their stances or in full stride before the ball was snapped. Moreover, that would've helped our tackles - because they wouldn't have had to play on their heels against 9 techniques who were guessing the snap count and beating us off the ball.
• Baker REALLY needs to get better at stepping up in the pocket. Stefanski does a great job getting him roll outs, but as we saw yesterday - naked boots don't work if you're not running the ball effectively. 
• I loved OBJ channeling his frustration positively. There's nothing wrong with screaming on the sidelines, so long as you're doing it in a way constructive to the team. OBJ of old would've been chucking his helmet.

Defense

• Sendejo is a liability. We drew up a number of blitzes to the boundary that saw him 1 on 1 with the ball carrier, only to whiff on the tackle. We neeeeeeeed KJ and Harrison back. 
• We really aren't healthy - Larry is an absolute stud and we miss him at 100%. 

On the whole, we're still 4-2 - and we just need to get healthy. 

6 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

• However, he did an abysmal job with his snap counts yesterday - which is something wholly irrelevant to an injury. We should've had 5-6 penalties drawn on TJ Watt and Stefon Tuitt if we would've just went with a hard count more frequently. There were a number of plays where the Steelers were out of their stances or in full stride before the ball was snapped. Moreover, that would've helped our tackles - because they wouldn't have had to play on their heels against 9 techniques who were guessing the snap count and beating us off the ball

 

 

I'm glad someone else saw this.   I was yelling at the TV the entire game that the refs were ignoring TJ Watt coming across early!  

12 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I'm glad someone else saw this.   I was yelling at the TV the entire game that the refs were ignoring TJ Watt coming across early!  

 

At a certain point, it becomes our fault - not the refs. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that this is something that all college QB's should be picking up on, let alone NFL. 

18 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

At a certain point, it becomes our fault - not the refs. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that this is something that all college QB's should be picking up on, let alone NFL. 

 

I rewatched a couple plays where I thought Watt may have been offside, and it seemed he really did just time it PERFECTLY.  Completely Baker's fault, especially when it happens more than just once or twice with no offside penalties.

4 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Alright folks.... Week 6 thoughts:

 

Special Teams

• This needs to be addressed, but our KOR schemes are BAD. It's an insult when teams kick it between the 5 and goal line because they'd rather you return it than give a touchback. In particular, Priefer seems REALLY committed to pre-determining the direction of the return (which is okay from time to time) but has really played against us with good directional kickers, as DPJ has to return has to make up ground across the field instead of North and South. 
• Our punt return team is pretty damn good though, and we would've had a block had it not been for an uncalled hold. 

Offense

• Baker was obviously playing hurt, and I can't fault him for that - dude is a competitor
• However, he did an abysmal job with his snap counts yesterday - which is something wholly irrelevant to an injury. We should've had 5-6 penalties drawn on TJ Watt and Stefon Tuitt if we would've just went with a hard count more frequently. There were a number of plays where the Steelers were out of their stances or in full stride before the ball was snapped. Moreover, that would've helped our tackles - because they wouldn't have had to play on their heels against 9 techniques who were guessing the snap count and beating us off the ball.
• Baker REALLY needs to get better at stepping up in the pocket. Stefanski does a great job getting him roll outs, but as we saw yesterday - naked boots don't work if you're not running the ball effectively. 
• I loved OBJ channeling his frustration positively. There's nothing wrong with screaming on the sidelines, so long as you're doing it in a way constructive to the team. OBJ of old would've been chucking his helmet.

Defense

• Sendejo is a liability. We drew up a number of blitzes to the boundary that saw him 1 on 1 with the ball carrier, only to whiff on the tackle. We neeeeeeeed KJ and Harrison back. 
• We really aren't healthy - Larry is an absolute stud and we miss him at 100%. 

On the whole, we're still 4-2 - and we just need to get healthy. 

 

Can't disagree with any of that.  I hope we don't have to watch Sendejo much longer.  And yes, Baker seems to panic as soon as the pocket starts to collapse.  He escapes too early often times, and the one time he did step up he overthrew OBJ (I believe?) badly (actually, overthrows have been a consistent problem for him this entire season.)  Another time he scrambled up the middle for about 3 yards on 2nd and 8 or so, he had his TE wide open coming across the middle about 5-10 yards right in front of him.  He needs to keep his eyes downfield a bit longer.  (And yes, I know I'm being the literal definition of a Monday morning QB here. 😄 )  EDIT: In fairness to Baker, I went back and watched that 2nd down play, which was actually the play right before the pick six, and realized Hooper was not in fact open as I originally had thought and he probably made the right choice scrambling there.

 

Also, we miss Chubb more than anyone would admit after last week.  D'Ernest Johnson + Dontrell Hilliard < Nick Chubb by a long shot.  Not sure it would have made that much of a difference yesterday, but if we're going to keep running the ball effectively this season, we sorely need him back.

 

Our O-line was getting manhandled.  On every 4th and short run, they were getting pushed into the backfield a yard or two.  Can't wait for Teller to come back, but also think the Steelers D up front this year is just too much for us to handle.  Probably too much for most of the NFL to handle, actually.

Edited October 19, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

A former QB (who loved Baker two years ago) commenting on this play.....

 

 

4 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Alright folks.... Week 6 thoughts:

 

Special Teams

• This needs to be addressed, but our KOR schemes are BAD. It's an insult when teams kick it between the 5 and goal line because they'd rather you return it than give a touchback. In particular, Priefer seems REALLY committed to pre-determining the direction of the return (which is okay from time to time) but has really played against us with good directional kickers, as DPJ has to return has to make up ground across the field instead of North and South. 

Really a shame we lost Jojo Natson. Then again opposing teams were just kicking away from him anyhow. 

 

Looking forward to seeing a good solid bounce back vs. the Bengals this week. 

51 minutes ago, KJP said:

A former QB (who loved Baker two years ago) commenting on this play.....

 

 

 

I think Dan still likes Baker @KJP, but he's spot on here. 

 

Funny thing is, Fitzpatrick is actually out of position on this play too, and was gambling that Baker would lock on to the pre-snap read. Minkah had Seem-curl-flat responsibility, and when (I believe it was Bryant) crosses his face, it's no longer his problem. If he would've hit Hooper in the flat he'd get 10-12 yards. 

21 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Funny thing is, Fitzpatrick is actually out of position on this play too, and was gambling that Baker would lock on to the pre-snap read. Minkah had Seem-curl-flat responsibility, and when (I believe it was Bryant) crosses his face, it's no longer his problem. If he would've hit Hooper in the flat he'd get 10-12 yards. 

 

 

Hooper is pretty tightly covered.  Even if Baker is able to get him the ball, he has to break a tackle just to get the first down.  Also, do you mean Sutton is out of position?

 

Baker had two better options here, IMO.  OBJ is open if he gets rid of it right as I took this screen cap, especially if Baker sees that Sutton stayed with Bryant and left an opening behind him.

 

An even better option, as Dan mentioned yesterday, is escaping through the weak side B gap where he has a lot of daylight to run free with a single corner out there being blocked by Landry.  Of course, Baker was chased down from behind by a lineman on the previous play and took a pretty good hit, so you have to wonder if that had an effect on his decision making.

 

Now I'm not nor ever was a QB, but I did play many years of basketball, and these split second decisions should become second nature.  The same thing happens in basketball, you see a defender get a little out of position and lean the wrong way, and you know you have someone behind him, you throw it there instantly.

Edited October 19, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

Just now, jam40jeff said:

 

 

Hooper is pretty tightly covered.  Even if Baker is able to get him the ball, he has to break a tackle just to get the first down.  Also, do you mean Sutton is out of position?

 

Baker had two better options here, IMO.  OBJ is open if he gets rid of it right as I took this screen cap, especially if Baker sees that Sutton stayed with Bryant and left an opening behind him.

 

An even better option, as Dan mentioned yesterday, is escaping through the weak side B gap where he has a lot of daylight to run free with a single corner out there being blocked by Landry.  Of course, Baker was chased down from behind by a lineman on the previous play and took a pretty good hit, so you have to wonder if that had an effect on his decision making.

 

Disagree re: Hooper being covered - if you look from the other angle, he has about a step on him to the sideline - the flat route is a TE specialty because you catch it in stride and use your momentum to take you forward. Hooper gets the 1st here if he catches it in stride. Like 60% of my college career consisted of this route. 

 

And no I meant Minkah - He has SCF responsibility... as soon as he sees Bryant underneath him with Sutton there, he's moving on to the curl, which would've been OBJ. To your point, in this instance, a well thrown ball her might see OBJ gaining 16-20 yards, and that would've been on Minkah for tracking Baker's eyes. 

 

I also 100% agree with you re: scrambling here. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Disagree re: Hooper being covered - if you look from the other angle, he has about a step on him to the sideline - the flat route is a TE specialty because you catch it in stride and use your momentum to take you forward. Hooper gets the 1st here if he catches it in stride. Like 60% of my college career consisted of this route. 

 

And no I meant Minkah - He has SCF responsibility... as soon as he sees Bryant underneath him with Sutton there, he's moving on to the curl, which would've been OBJ. To your point, in this instance, a well thrown ball her might see OBJ gaining 16-20 yards, and that would've been on Minkah for tracking Baker's eyes. 

 

I also 100% agree with you re: scrambling here. 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, for sure on Hooper likely getting the first down as he falls forward with his size advantage ("break a tackle" wasn't what I should have said)...just saying he isn't a sure thing to get 10-12 yards unless he's more open than it seems from my screen cap (where it looks like they're stride for stride.)

 

Ahh, yeah, now re-watching I see what you mean about Minkah...either way, Baker should see both defenders converging on the same spot and instantly look elsewhere for what's left open.

Edited October 19, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

it was obvs the sore ribs are more than baker was letting on. i dk that he should not have played, but its a concern going forward. not stepping up into the pocket well and the pitts d so easily rushing in on the count is egregious though. i was never was sold on baker, but to be fair he is doing better than rosen or darnold, if not jackson, who is on a much better team, so ok the jury is still out.

 

BTW, @YABO713, is this the other angle you were referring to?  If so, yes, Hooper absolutely looks more open here than the other angle.  (This was taken a half second or so earlier than my screen cap, too, so I'm guessing Hooper slowed up as the ball was released and he saw it wasn't coming his way, making it look like he was less open in the later image.)

Edited October 19, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

@jam40jeff yup, that's the one. And if Baker uses this same exact timing to deliver a strike to Hooper in the flat, I think this is a nice gain - 8-10 if Hooper falls forward, 15-20 if he can break the tackle. 

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

it was obvs the sore ribs are more than baker was letting on. i dk that he should not have played, but its a concern going forward. not stepping up into the pocket well and the pitts d so easily rushing in on the count is egregious though. i was never was sold on baker, but to be fair he is doing better than rosen or darnold, if not jackson, who is on a much better team, so ok the jury is still out.

 

I think we're being too hard on him. Through his first 34 games, he still has better numbers across the board than Brees and Favre did to begin their careers

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I think we're being too hard on him. Through his first 34 games, he still has better numbers across the board than Brees and Favre did to begin their careers

I agree re Baker.  

My biggest worry yesterday is it seems like the team gave up early.   They knew Pittsburgh was tough and we had injuries, so they were going through the motions once we were down 10-0.  Great teams don't do that.  Great teams play through the adversity.  

Just now, Cleburger said:

I agree re Baker.  

My biggest worry yesterday is it seems like the team gave up early.   They knew Pittsburgh was tough and we had injuries, so they were going through the motions once we were down 10-0.  Great teams don't do that.  Great teams play through the adversity.  

 

I disagree re: giving up - one of my biggest positives I took from the game was that we responded from 17-0 to make it 17-7, then USED OUR TIME OUTS to get the ball back, rather than playing content being down 10 before half. That was honestly the first time in my life I can remember a Browns coach saying "f... it, let's get the ball back." 

 

To your point though, once the Steelers got the 4th down stop in the 3rd, the Browns gave up. 

54 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I disagree re: giving up - one of my biggest positives I took from the game was that we responded from 17-0 to make it 17-7, then USED OUR TIME OUTS to get the ball back, rather than playing content being down 10 before half. That was honestly the first time in my life I can remember a Browns coach saying "f... it, let's get the ball back." 

 

To your point though, once the Steelers got the 4th down stop in the 3rd, the Browns gave up. 

Our coaches may not have given up, but some of the players sure did. And I disagree with you about Baker; the pick that's been discussed was atrocious, and he hasn't looked comfortable since the league got some tape on him. You have OBJ, Jarvis, Two good tight ends (not Njoku), two of the best backs in the league, a really good o-line, and you can't throw for over 250 yards in a game?

4 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Our coaches may not have given up, but some of the players sure did. And I disagree with you about Baker; the pick that's been discussed was atrocious, and he hasn't looked comfortable since the league got some tape on him. You have OBJ, Jarvis, Two good tight ends (not Njoku), two of the best backs in the league, a really good o-line, and you can't throw for over 250 yards in a game?

 

Well just being devil's advocate here, it's not easy to throw for 250+ in a ground game that had been averaging 165ypg. 

 

He certainly has some issues, some cerebral, some mechanical, but I think Browns fans are fiending for the oldest addiction, a QB controversy, when there's truly none to be had. 

I'd also love to see us get OBJ involved in some BOP action - which is a zone/read RPO with a bubble screen play side. It's used more in college than the NFL as an extension of the running game, but: 1) we have some very good blocking WRs, and 2) It's a great way to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers and build the QB's confidence. 

 

Moreover, it give Baker a read on his passing lane, if the end man on the line reads the bubble and is upfield, then its a give. If he's plays the handoff, then Baker has a clean passing lane. 

 

Here's Blake Bortles running it with the Jags (we'd probably run it with a mid-zone or inside zone complement, however)

 

 

Edited October 19, 20204 yr by YABO713

25 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Well just being devil's advocate here, it's not easy to throw for 250+ in a ground game that had been averaging 165ypg. 

 

He certainly has some issues, some cerebral, some mechanical, but I think Browns fans are fiending for the oldest addiction, a QB controversy, when there's truly none to be had. 

How many did we run for against Pittsburgh? 75. Our rushing YPG against BAL, IND, and PIT? 112.33. Baker's passing YPG? 188.7. That is not an encouraging sign from a third year starter. Drew Brees averaged 191.6 in his third year in the league, which was 17 years ago. Favre's third year he averaged 206.4, and it was only his second year actually playing, and was in 1993.

 

I don't want a QB controversy, i just want a decent QB.

I'd also love to see us get OBJ involved in some BOP action - which is a zone/read RPO with a bubble screen play side. It's used more in college than the NFL as an extension of the running game, but: 1) we have some very good blocking WRs, and 2) It's a great way to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers and build the QB's confidence. 
 
Moreover, it give Baker a read on his passing lane, if the end man on the line reads the bubble and is upfield, then its a give. If he's plays the handoff, then Baker has a clean passing lane. 
 
Here's Blake Bortles running it with the Jags (we'd probably run it with a mid-zone or inside zone complement, however)
 
 

Yes, this would be a perfect way to get him the ball more and keep the D spread out a bit to open more running lanes. Glenville used to run this to perfection in their heyday, back when their games with Ignatius were epic battles.

34 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Yes, this would be a perfect way to get him the ball more and keep the D spread out a bit to open more running lanes. Glenville used to run this to perfection in their heyday, back when their games with Ignatius were epic battles.
 

 

 

I played in 3 of them!

On 10/19/2020 at 6:30 PM, YABO713 said:

 

I played in 3 of them!

Ok, @YABO713, it’s time for your insightful and excellent analysis. 
 

My takes from the game (I’m an armchair QB)

 

Offense:

1st Quarter:

Terrible call and throw on second and 4 on the opening drive. Beckham was not open and  you can’t adjust as a receiver back to the ball 25 yards down the field.

Turnover by the Bengals and sh*t production to convert 

 

2nd Quarter:

Nice solid drive to knot it at 10

 

3rd Quarter:

Once again, a nice solid drive by Baker and co. Solid runs and good routes. Baker starting to get really heat up. Seams like Hunt is starting to run out of steam at the end of the third.

 

4th Quarter:

Baker Mayfield was on fire and the receivers caught some amazingly accurate and tight throws

 

Defense:

 

This is whee I need help. I thought we looked like complete sh*t at all levels of the pass defense. We KNEW that’s they were going to go with short slants and out routes to negate our one strength on defense being the pass rush and yet, all of our coverage guys players three yards off the ball?

I need to hear from the Browns Front Office.  This defense is simply atrocious.  Its unacceptable to have to watch Andrew Sendejo every week.  For the life of me, i don't understand why the Browns aren't trying to make some trades or even acquire some FA's that are available?  This offense is scoring 38 points a game and yet we are barely winning because of how bad this defense is.  I'm not asking for a top 5 defense at this point, but just a top 15-20 defense.  Getting to that point would make the Browns really hard to beat.  Go inquire about JJ Watt.  He seems very dissatisfied being in Houston and has let it be known he isn't happy. I love the thought of Garrett and Watt opposite of each other.  Also, i would inquire about LB'r CJ Mosely from the Jets.  They are in obvious rebuilding mode.  He's really good and he cant possibly be happy there.  We need a Linebacker in the worst way possible.  Lastly, go out and sign Clay Matthews Jr, Earl Thomas and HaHa Clinton-Dix out of free agency.  It couldn't possibly hurt to bring these guys in for a 1 year deal with a team option.  Adding those guys couldn't possibly make us worse. Literally nothing to lose at this point.  Yet, the Browns front office seems completely content with trotting out Sendejo, Taki Taki, Mitchell, Elliot, Johnson etc...every freaking week.  We are built to win now.  Go out and make a few moves to show the fan base that we are serious about winning.  Staying status quo on the defensive side of the ball is a losing formula and shouldn't be tolerated by a fan base that's dying for a winner.  Do it!!!

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by OhioFinest

Here's my take:

 

Defense

• I normally avoid from placing blame on individuals, and I'm still reluctant to do so... but Sendejo is an absolute liability. He's not fast enough to cover receivers in man, and he's not quick enough to break on balls thrown to his zone - and he is a below average tackler. Andrew Berry has been an awesome GM to this point, I hope he's on the phone to Minnesota trying to get Harrison Smith. We simply cannot make a playoff run if Sendejo has to play more than 12-15 defensive snaps a game. 
• We get absolutely murdered when our safeties are manned up but 8 yards off the ball - Drew Sample had over 50 yards yesterday just taking advantage of that. IMO - if we want to blitz as much as we do, we need to play way more tight Cover 0 and just take our chances. At this point, what's the difference between 1 50 yard completion for a TD versus 3 15+ completions on the same drive for TDs? 
• Everyone back off Terrence Mitchell - He had a big drop, admittedly, but we wouldn't have been in the game if not for him and Ward. They both played excellent - the difference is, Mitchell had a couple obvious mistakes. He's still a very good field CB. 
• The decision not to rush the passer on the hail mary was the first time I've screamed at my TV all year. WTF was that. I understand only sending 2-3, but don't just stand there and let Burrow heave one - and Idk why we didn't have Njoku and Bryant at the goalline as safeties.
• Redwine's missed tackle on the goal line was a complete lack of effort, and that concerns me. I was on team's in college that were 0-6, and that was the kind of effort some of our players would give when they thought the game was lost. 
• Our D-Line is STUDLY. Larry Ogunjobi is having his best season yet, and Myles Garrett continues to make OC's pay who think they can block him 1 on 1. Also, Olivier Vernon is doing a lot of the dirty work and I can appreciate that. 
• We won the game, so I don't want to be too negative, but we need to address a LOT. 

Offense

• Baker was absolutely locked in, sans 5 plays - and that's what we want from him. 
• Everyone saying we're better without Odell - please stop listening to sports talk radio callers like "Ron from Willoughby" and "Jeff from Brunswick" who "would've made all state if his JV coach didn't hate him." OBJ makes our team better - the problem lies with Baker's infatuation with him. If you want to make the argument that Baker was better in his progressions with OBJ off the field, go for it. But that's not OBJ's fault, that's Baker's. 
• Stefanski continues to impress me. FWIW - He called the 3 plays in a row to start the 1:07 GW drive - and they were all perfect. He predicted Cover 0 on the ball to Higgins, and that's the only coverage (save maybeeeee Cover 1) that would've given Baker the latitude to throw it up there. 
• Kareem Hunt is an ANIMAL. Absolute animal. 
• Jarvis Landry really played 60+ snaps and threw a BOMB with a cracked rib - how do you not wanna play your ass off for a teammate like that?
• JC Tretter might be the best combo blocking center in football. The fact that he's able to snap the ball, pass off the 1 technique to the guard, then get to the next level and block a LB is absolutely nuts, and he does it on about 50% of our run plays. Jedrick Wills is also a stud. His run blocking needs to improve, but he's a rookie. His pass blocking is next level - and his feet are quick for someone who weighs 200 lbs, let alone 320 lbs. 
• Higgins earned himself playing time, regardless of if OBJ comes back soon or not. Dude left it all on the field, played disciplined, and made plays when he needed to. 

7 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

I need to hear from the Browns Front Office.  This defense is simply atrocious.  Its unacceptable to have to watch Andrew Sendejo every week.  For the life of me, i don't understand why the Browns aren't trying to make some trades or even acquire some FA's that are available?  This offense is scoring 38 points a game and yet we are barely winning because of how bad this defense is.  I'm not asking for a top 5 defense at this point, but just a top 15-20 defense.  Getting to that point would make the Browns really hard to beat.  Go inquire about JJ Watt.  He seems very dissatisfied being in Houston and has let it be known he isn't happy. I love the thought of Garrett and Watt opposite of each other.  Also, i would inquire about LB'r CJ Mosely from the Jets.  They are in obvious rebuilding mode.  He's really good and he cant possibly be happy there.  We need a Linebacker in the worst way possible.  Lastly, go out and sign Clay Matthews Jr, Earl Thomas and HaHa Clinton-Dix out of free agency.  It couldn't possibly hurt to bring these guys in for a 1 year deal with a team option.  Adding those guys couldn't possibly make us worse. Literally nothing to lose at this point.  Yet, the Browns front office seems completely content with trotting out Sendejo, Taki Taki, Mitchell, Elliot, Johnson etc...every freaking week.  We are built to win now.  Go out and make a few moves to show the fan base that we are serious about winning.  Staying status quo on the defensive side of the ball is a losing formula and shouldn't be tolerated by a fan base that's dying for a winner.  Do it!!!

 

Hey man, we won. 

4 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

I need to hear from the Browns Front Office.  This defense is simply atrocious.  Its unacceptable to have to watch Andrew Sendejo every week.  For the life of me, i don't understand why the Browns aren't trying to make some trades or even acquire some FA's that are available?  This offense is scoring 38 points a game and yet we are barely winning because of how bad this defense is.  I'm not asking for a top 5 defense at this point, but just a top 15-20 defense.  Getting to that point would make the Browns really hard to beat.  Go inquire about JJ Watt.  He seems very dissatisfied being in Houston and has let it be known he isn't happy. I love the thought of Garrett and Watt opposite of each other.  Also, i would inquire about LB'r CJ Mosely from the Jets.  They are in obvious rebuilding mode.  He's really good and he cant possibly be happy there.  We need a Linebacker in the worst way possible.  Lastly, go out and sign Clay Matthews Jr, Earl Thomas and HaHa Clinton-Dix out of free agency.  It couldn't possibly hurt to bring these guys in for a 1 year deal with a team option.  Adding those guys couldn't possibly make us worse. Literally nothing to lose at this point.  Yet, the Browns front office seems completely content with trotting out Sendejo, Taki Taki, Mitchell, Elliot, Johnson etc...every freaking week.  We are built to win now.  Go out and make a few moves to show the fan base that we are serious about winning.  Staying status quo on the defensive side of the ball is a losing formula and shouldn't be tolerated by a fan base that's dying for a winner.  Do it!!!

I kind of wonder if this front office thinks the Browns are built to win now? The only big pieces on the team who aren’t under 25 are Landry and OBJ. Even those two are only 27. I also wouldn’t be shocked if the coach and GM aren’t sold on Baker as the answer at QB. They may want another crack at the draft and free agency before they push their chips to the middle. 

1 minute ago, bumsquare said:

I kind of wonder if this front office thinks the Browns are built to win now? The only big pieces on the team who aren’t under 25 are Landry and OBJ. Even those two are only 27. I also wouldn’t be shocked if the coach and GM aren’t sold on Baker as the answer at QB. They may want another crack at the draft and free agency before they push their chips to the middle. 

 

I can tell you for absolute certain, first-hand knowledge that Stefanski and Berry both think Baker's the guy. Idk if that will change, but it's 100% true at the moment. 

 

To your point, though, I think we need to be making calls for a safety. We should have Delpit back next year, and to their credit, they did try to address the weakness in the secondary via the draft. 

 

Also a point I failed to make somehow in my synopsis: Takitaki was manned up on AJ Green for at least 5 snaps yesterday. W. T. F.

I know we won, but its still glaringly obvious that we don't have enough on the defensive side of the ball to be taken seriously.  This fan base is starving to become relevant...like really relevant.  This defense is what...30th in the NFL.  Come on, you should want better than that...we deserve better than that...especially because our offense is scoring 30+ points a game.  When was the last time that happened?  Your only obligation is to win...period.  Our front office should be doing everything in their power to make this defense better before the trade deadline.  The defense isn't good enough, It's just the reality we are facing.  

You cant tell me that Clay Matthews III wouldn't want to come here and give it one more shot. Playing in his daddy's jersey could light the fuel.  Yea he's 34, but he can still give us something...if nothing else leadership. Hell he had 8 sacks last year for the Rams.  The same thing can be said for Earl Thomas.  Nobody on planet Earth can tell me he is worse than Sendejo.  These are moves that wouldn't cost us anything and immediately make us better.  Again, i cant for the life of me, understand why the Browns are bringing these guys in...even if just for the remainder of the year.  Seem like no brainers to me.  

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by OhioFinest

Just now, OhioFinest said:

You cant tell me that Clay Matthews III wouldn't want to come here and give it one more shot.  Yea he's 34, but he can still give us something...if nothing else leadership.  The same thing can be said for Earl Thomas.  Nobody on planet Earth can tell me he is worse than Sendejo.  These are moves that wouldn't cost us anything and immediately make us better.  Again, i cant for the life of me, understand why the Browns are bringing these guys in...even if just for the remainder of the year.  Seem like no brainers to me.  

 

I'm sure we've kicked the tires on Earl Thomas - but I think he's going to be asking for the sun and stars. I'm not against veteran LBs, but I think it would be better to add one patch to the secondary via someone like Harrison Smith. 

After watching the game yesterday, I thought Cleveland has a stud pass rush. It will go far. 

This team is 5-2 so at this stage, it is hard not to see them making the playoffs. Likely will be a wildcard. I think they finish 10-6 looking at the rest of the schedule.

That being said, I do not think they have what it takes to get over the hump in the playoffs. 

Baker played well against a bad defense, but watching the 2 QB's I would take Burrow hands down over Baker. What Burrow can do with a lesser talent on offense (yes they have a couple of good receivers but Browns overall supporting cast is better) has been amazing to watch. Baker needs to roll out and needs a strong run game to do play action for his game to really do well (as evident by the Pittsburgh game) 

Clevland needs Chubb back but Hunt is a great addition to carry the load short term. 

D is good. Denzel is a stud, but there are some soft spots there. 

1 hour ago, OhioFinest said:

You cant tell me that Clay Matthews III wouldn't want to come here and give it one more shot. Playing in his daddy's jersey could light the fuel.  Yea he's 34, but he can still give us something...if nothing else leadership. Hell he had 8 sacks last year for the Rams.  The same thing can be said for Earl Thomas.  Nobody on planet Earth can tell me he is worse than Sendejo.  These are moves that wouldn't cost us anything and immediately make us better.  Again, i cant for the life of me, understand why the Browns are bringing these guys in...even if just for the remainder of the year.  Seem like no brainers to me.  

 

I've thought about Clay Matthews before as well.  Fans would love this, and you're right, it may provide a spark to the rest of the locker room. 

Over my lifetime, the Browns identity always centered around the defense (and in reality this is true for our entire AFC North).   One or two key moves in the defensive backfield could make these guys gel into Dawgs once more.   We've beaten the team in the division we were supposed to beat.   If we want to see the playoffs, we MUST split the series with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.   With Chubb back we may have a shot, but it should would be much nicer to see those games with a fired up smash-mouth defense lining up behind Garrett.  

I don't have anything to add here over what's already been said, but I just wanted to mention (since somebody claimed our offense is scoring 38 PPG) that the Browns have scored 200 points in 7 games, which is 28.6 PPG, and one of those TDs was scored by our defense.  (I'm not disagreeing that our defense needs to improve, just wanted to correct the misstated statistic.)

2 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

I don't have anything to add here over what's already been said, but I just wanted to mention (since somebody claimed our offense is scoring 38 PPG) that the Browns have scored 200 points in 7 games, which is 28.6 PPG, and one of those TDs was scored by our defense.  (I'm not disagreeing that our defense needs to improve, just wanted to correct the misstated statistic.)

 

I think something that needs to be said, too, is that we've yet to have 2 games in a row with both Karl Joseph and Ronnie Harrison healthy. That may change things. 

9 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I've thought about Clay Matthews before as well.  Fans would love this, and you're right, it may provide a spark to the rest of the locker room. 

Over my lifetime, the Browns identity always centered around the defense (and in reality this is true for our entire AFC North).

 

Just curious, but how old are you?  I grew up watching Kosar, Byner, Mack, Slaughter, Newsome, Brennan, Langhorne, Metcalf, etc.  Sure, we had guys like Matthews, Michael Dean Perry, Minnifield, and Dixon, but it's not like we were known only for having a good defense back then.  (This is also the days when it was the AFC Central, and Tennessee was the Houston Oilers...and now I feel old...but at least I can kick arse in Tecmo Super Bowl! 😛 )

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

10 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Just curious, but how old are you?  I grew up watching Kosar, Byner, Mack, Slaughter, Newsome, Brennan, Langhorne, Metcalf, etc.  Sure, we had guys like Matthews, Michael Dean Perry, Minnifield, and Dixon, but it's not like we were known only for having a good defense back then.

 

I am late 40's.  So you can add Sipe and the Kardiac Kids to my list.  A team which required lots of come-from-behind, last second heroics from the offense to pull off wins. 

 

And into the late 80's/90's, Kosar and company weren't national household names, but they got the job done.   

 

I don't mean to diminish the Browns offense of yesteryear, but let's face it, the bleachers on the east side of the stadium ARE nationally known and they weren't named for the offense 😜

16 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I am late 40's.  So you can add Sipe and the Kardiac Kids to my list.  A team which required lots of come-from-behind, last second heroics from the offense to pull off wins. 

 

And into the late 80's/90's, Kosar and company weren't national household names, but they got the job done.   

 

I don't mean to diminish the Browns offense of yesteryear, but let's face it, the bleachers on the east side of the stadium ARE nationally known and they weren't named for the offense 😜

 

Well, thanks for making me feel not quite as old again then! 😄

 

Yeah, I guess you're right.  I was just young enough to think the Dawg Pound was "always a thing" since I was only 5 years old when it started.  I lived in Mentor at the time and we used to watch the Browns training camp at Lakeland, but that was in the late 1980s.  We definitely identified as a tough team, but when you're a kid you probably think those guys on offense are more well known than they actually are.  No matter how good our defense was, though, this will always be my childhood memory of the Browns.

 

                                     

 

Anyway, back to 2020.  Sure, there are things we can improve upon, but we also have the best record after 7 games since Vinny Testaverde was the QB.  I'm going to just enjoy that today.

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by jam40jeff

44 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

After watching the game yesterday, I thought Cleveland has a stud pass rush. It will go far. 

This team is 5-2 so at this stage, it is hard not to see them making the playoffs. Likely will be a wildcard. I think they finish 10-6 looking at the rest of the schedule.

That being said, I do not think they have what it takes to get over the hump in the playoffs. 

Baker played well against a bad defense, but watching the 2 QB's I would take Burrow hands down over Baker. What Burrow can do with a lesser talent on offense (yes they have a couple of good receivers but Browns overall supporting cast is better) has been amazing to watch. Baker needs to roll out and needs a strong run game to do play action for his game to really do well (as evident by the Pittsburgh game) 

Clevland needs Chubb back but Hunt is a great addition to carry the load short term. 

D is good. Denzel is a stud, but there are some soft spots there. 

Not trying to disparage you, but anybody who says the "D is good", hasn't been watching the Browns.  They have given up 221 points which is 31st in the NFL.  The defense is absolutely atrocious.  The Browns have scored at least 32 points in every win, and yet they've almost lost everyone of those games.  That should be frightening to everyone.  That puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the offense to have to score basically 40 points a game just to have a CHANCE to win.  This defense needs more ability. Its not a scheme, or players just not "fitting"....its plain and simple ability.  We have 2 players (Garrett and Ward) who would start on any relevant NFL franchise.  We have probably 2-3 who would be in other rotations.  We have 5-7 guys who would be practice squad players for other teams.  What we lack more than ANYTHING on defense, is leadership.  Garrett is just not a rah rah type of guy.  We need somebody that takes over that side of the ball.  Who do we have? Bringing in Super Bowl experienced guys like a Clay Matthews III or Earl Thomas bring instant credibility and leadership.  The time is NOW....no more asking the fans to be "patient".  I see our front office doing nothing as a dereliction of duty.  Period. 

2 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Well, thanks for making me feel not quite as old again then! 😄

 

Yeah, I guess you're right.  I was just young enough to think the Dawg Pound was "always a thing" since I was only 5 years old when it started.  I lived in Mentor at the time and we used to watch the Browns training camp at Lakeland, but that was in the late 1980s.  We definitely identified as a tough team, but when you're a kid you probably think those guys on offense are more well known than they actually are.  No matter how good our defense was, though, this will always be my childhood memory of the Browns. 

 

I probably saw you there.  I grew up in Willoughby and used to ride my bike to training camp at least 3x weekly as a teenager.  

 

Those were some great offenses.   But you have to admit, our entire division has always been a defensive powerhouse.   From the Iron Curtain, to the Top Dawgs, which in turn became the Baltimore Ravens.   

 

Just now, OhioFinest said:

Not trying to disparage you, but anybody who says the "D is good", hasn't been watching the Browns.  They have given up 221 points which is 31st in the NFL.  The defense is absolutely atrocious.  The Browns have scored at least 32 points in every win, and yet they've almost lost everyone of those games.  That should be frightening to everyone.  That puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the offense to have to score basically 40 points a game just to have a CHANCE to win.  This defense needs more ability. Its not a scheme, or players just not "fitting"....its plain and simple ability.  We have 2 players (Garrett and Ward) who would start on any relevant NFL franchise.  We have probably 2-3 who would be in other rotations.  We have 5-7 guys who would be practice squad players for other teams.  What we lack more than ANYTHING on defense, is leadership.  Garrett is just not a rah rah type of guy.  We need somebody that takes over that side of the ball.  Who do we have? Bringing in Super Bowl experienced guys like a Clay Matthews III or Earl Thomas bring instant credibility and leadership.  The time is NOW....no more asking the fans to be "patient".  I see our front office doing nothing as a dereliction of duty.  Period. 

I guess the question I have is what qualifies as a good season for the Browns. They are 5-2 now and looking at the schedule they have at least 4 more wins possibly 5. That is a playoff record (of course a total collapse is not unprecedented and this is Cleveland so if it can happen it will).   

I do not see them making much of a run in the playoffs with the current makeup as this is not a Super Bowl quality team, but the liklihood of them ending their playoff drought is almost certain. (I may eat those words come December). 

 

Also, keep in mind that injuries happen. You cant expect the season to have all your stud players healthy the entire time. Stefanski has changed the culture to a positive one after so many years of failure. He may never be the one to get to the Super Bowl, and the Browns still need a few missing pieces to get there, but the trajectory has been changed.