That's flawed logic. Of course they do. More talented players tend to rise to the top of the draft. However, it could just as easily be said that there are more quarterbacks not drafted first who hit. Players aren't more talented because of where they're drafted. If the Browns draft Wentz 2nd it doesn't make him any more likely to be a good QB.

 

Except it's more stark than that. It's not that a QB drafted first among other QBs in that same draft merely performed better in the NFL. It's that the first QB drafted proved to be a long-term franchise QB, whereas the second QB drafted generally didn't perform well at all in the pros.

 

Flacco was the 2nd QB taken, while JaMarcus Russell, Sam Bradford, and E. J. Manuel were all first.  The first two were first overall.

 

Exceptions to every rule. The article showed how "exceptional" (rare) that was.

History shows the first QB drafted each year hits more often than those not drafted first among QBs.

That's flawed logic. Of course they do. More talented players tend to rise to the top of the draft. However, it could just as easily be said that there are more quarterbacks not drafted first who hit. Players aren't more talented because of where they're drafted. If the Browns draft Wentz 2nd it doesn't make him any more likely to be a good QB.

 

Virtually every media outlet is saying Wentz is the best QB to draft. Are all these people wrong?

I have no idea. If the Browns think one of these quarterbacks is worth the pick they should take him. I'm simply saying that taking somebody higher doesn't make them a better player. The first quarterback taken will succeed more often because he's generally more talented. But reaching for a QB and taking them higher in the draft doesn't magically make them more likely to succeed.

Normally, there is a clear separation as to who the best QB is, despite all the media buzz over that second guy (Leaf, RGIII, etc).  I don't think that is the case this year.  You'd be hard pressed to find a credible scout who thinks either QB is the best prospect in this draft.

 

My point still stands un-refuted.  No-brainer franchise QBs are taken 1st overall every time.  No QB taken 2nd overall has ever won a Super Bowl, and McNabb is the only arguable success story since Archie Manning.

Just watch this and tell me how the browns cant draft this guy.

 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rL4MplOj2IU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Normally, there is a clear separation as to who the best QB is, despite all the media buzz over that second guy (Leaf, RGIII, etc).  I don't think that is the case this year.  You'd be hard pressed to find a credible scout who thinks either QB is the best prospect in this draft.

 

My point still stands un-refuted.  No-brainer franchise QBs are taken 1st overall every time.  No QB taken 2nd overall has ever won a Super Bowl, and McNabb is the only arguable success story since Archie Manning.

But lots and lots of QB's taken 3rd, 4th, 5th...overall have won SB's, just sayin'.

^ I like Ramsey, but he seems to play a little high.  That's not an easy habit to break and it won't work so well in the NFL

 

 

Browns center Alex Mack voids the last 3 years of contract, set to become free agent

 

He will be eligible to sign with other teams on March 9th, but the Browns can continue to negotiate with him. He can also start negotiating with other teams March 7

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/browns_center_alex_mack_voids.html#incart_2box

Couch did do better than he gets credit for. He was handcuffed with a crappy supporting cast. Who knows how good he might've been

 

I am starting to slightly warm up to the idea of taking Wentz. He might be worth the risk. But only if we fill some major gaps via free agency

 

Good running game is every young QB's best friend. The Browns running game needs to get way better.

I'm finally seeing a few mock drafts which have the Browns taking one of the top two players in lieu of the one of the top two QBs.  Seems like Ramsey is the consensus pick using that philosophy.

So who's going to buy Browns tickets without a QB or a running game? Good thing we have a good punter. We're going to need him even more in 2016.

 

Are the Browns striving for 1-15 in 2016 and the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes?

If I was in charge, I would be looking to sign Chris Ivory or one of the other several FA running backs on the market.  There are some good ones out there.  As for QB, I take Goff or Wentz if I truly believe they are worthy of a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't reach for one of them simply because I thought no one is going to buy Browns tix if I don't draft one of them.  Last thing we need is to bust on yet another QB in the first round, passing up future perennial pro-bowlers

. 

I prefer Miami's Lamar Miller. He's still young and Dolphins have underutilized him. But their new coaching staff may want to try hard to keep him.

 

I do like Goff a lot. He was the only good thing on that poor Cal team and brought them a top 25 ranking. The only things wrong with him are his long-pass throwing style (which can be improved with coaching) and his body size, which I'm confident will fill out. He's only 21 and his dad was a heavyweight boxer.

 

Wentz played on a very good FBS team that won with or without him. He's physically gifted and could be a very good QB. But I think he's more of a risk. Both QBs are smart, great studies of the game and hard-workers.

 

If the Browns don't draft one of these two QBs in the top 10 or 15, at least one other team will. Likely both will be gone. Guarantee it.

 

Browns are still a business. And NFL coaches (especially Browns coaches!) have only two years to show improvement. That's why I think the Browns will draft Goff. He's the most NFL-ready. The Broncos won't let Osweiler go.

Everybody's saying we shouldn't take a QB because they think a QB is likely to bust.  I assure you, the Browns have proven lately they can bust on any position they draft- QB, WR, C, RB, OLB, DE.  We are multifaceted that way.  Nobody busts better on any prospect.  The question is what one player can do the most to improve the team overall.  That doesn't mean QB necessarily, but I think there has to be a serious presumption that it's QB if there is a reasonable franchise QB level prospect there.  There's just no one other player on the field who makes as big a difference.

So who's going to buy Browns tickets without a QB or a running game? Good thing we have a good punter. We're going to need him even more in 2016.

 

Are the Browns striving for 1-15 in 2016 and the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes?

 

 

I know there is always next year, but can we take this one draft at a time.

 

 

I do like Goff a lot. He was the only good thing on that poor Cal team and brought them a top 25 ranking. The only things wrong with him are his long-pass throwing style (which can be improved with coaching) and his body size, which I'm confident will fill out. He's only 21 and his dad was a heavyweight boxer.

 

Goff's dad Jerry was a pro baseball player not a heavyweight boxer. His playing weight was 203lbs, he was a catcher. I would not be so sure that Jeff can "fill out"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Goff

Everybody's saying we shouldn't take a QB because they think a QB is likely to bust.  I assure you, the Browns have proven lately they can bust on any position they draft- QB, WR, C, RB, OLB, DE.  We are multifaceted that way.  Nobody busts better on any prospect.  The question is what one player can do the most to improve the team overall.  That doesn't mean QB necessarily, but I think there has to be a serious presumption that it's QB if there is a reasonable franchise QB level prospect there.  There's just no one other player on the field who makes as big a difference.

 

IMO, there is no disputing that QB is the most impactful position in all of sports.  And no one can dispute that "the Browns" have proven they can bust any pick.  But who are "the Browns"?  None of the decisions makers from any of those picks remain.  Unless you are highly superstitious and believe that some curse transferred from Farmer to the new regime, taking that approach is nonsensical.

 

I am not currently in the camp of folks advocating for them taking a QB at #2 no matter what.  Three key words there at the end of that sentence.  That is because I do not believe any of the QBs available in THIS draft can improve the team more than some 15-20 (at a minimum) other prospects available in this draft.  I don't think I have read one comment from anyone suggesting that the Browns should not draft a QB who is worthy of the #2 pick.  No one is arguing that.  There is simply a difference of opinion on the prospects available.  I would note that I don't think anyone here or any experts believes that Wentz or Goff is one of the top 3 prospects in this draft, even with the inflated consideration QBs are given.

Everybody's saying we shouldn't take a QB because they think a QB is likely to bust.  I assure you, the Browns have proven lately they can bust on any position they draft- QB, WR, C, RB, OLB, DE.  We are multifaceted that way.

 

This. This made me laugh, but in a sad kind of way.

 

Goff's dad Jerry was a pro baseball player not a heavyweight boxer. His playing weight was 203lbs, he was a catcher. I would not be so sure that Jeff can "fill out"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Goff

 

I thought Jerry Goff was both a baseball catcher and a boxer. Turns out there's two Jerry Goff's -- both are about the same age. Jerry Goff the boxer is from the Louisiana-Mississippi Gulf Coast region.

!!!

 

Cleveland Browns' team president Alec Scheiner is leaving organization

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/cleveland_browns_team_presiden.html#incart_2box

Good riddance. Some of the women in the marketing department will be writing tell-all books about that dog someday.

Travis Benjamin seems to be on his way out. Agreed to a deal that pays him 6 million per year w/ the Chargers.

Good riddance. Some of the women in the marketing department will be writing tell-all books about that dog someday.

 

He let Bill Clinton explain the meaning of the word "President"....

Travis Benjamin seems to be on his way out. Agreed to a deal that pays him 6 million per year w/ the Chargers.

 

Browns were hoping to get Bengals' WR Marvin Jones, but he's going to Detroit. Sanu is sniffing around New England. Matthews is still out there.

 

So now the Browns WRs are Hawkins, Hartline, Gabriel and Pryor. That's what happens when you don't draft WRs in the last two WR-rich drafts and you have no QB that free-agent WRs want to work with.

Travis Benjamin seems to be on his way out. Agreed to a deal that pays him 6 million per year w/ the Chargers.

 

I always feel like Travis is one hard tackle away from a major injury.

Mack is signing with the Falcons. Sheesh

Mack is signing with the Falcons. Sheesh

 

For a half-million dollars per year less than he would've gotten from the Browns. Not a good look, Browns.

 

Browns also reportedly have pulled their offer to Schwartz and they've not reached out to Gipson.

 

92 The Fan Browns reporter Daryl Ruiter is now pretty certain that all four of the Browns free agents are leaving the team.

 

So this is the Browns offensive line in 2016....

 

I'm done with this team and front office before the year even starts I can't deal with it.

Hey, at least season tickets are the same price. Sounds like Dee is making some good decisions already.

Got mine on order    8-)

 

Okay.  This one got me

 

There's still players on this team -- Johnny Manziel, Dwayne Bowe, Justin Gilbert... C'mon, what's the problem?? ;)

There's still players on this team -- Johnny Manziel, Dwayne Bowe, Justin Gilbert... C'mon, what's the problem?? ;)

 

Justin Gilbert isn't even qualified to carry Gerard Warrens box of doughnuts.

Gerard Warren - that's a name I haven't heard in awhile.

Gerard Warren - that's a name I haven't heard in awhile.

 

Oh you remember Gerard Warren....the guy the Browns chose over LaDainian Tomlinson?

Big Money! Zac Jackson and Andre Knott will occasionally throw out a Big Money story on the A to Z podcast. They both worked for the Browns while he was there. He was as big of a knucklehead as you would imagine.

 

Edit: found this nice story about Warren while looking for the stop on the turnpike coming back from partying in Pittsburgh.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_browns_flop_gerard_w.html

 

As far as the non-activity goes, I am ok with it. It's a full rebuild. The pulling of the offer to Schwartz is the only thing that makes me look sideways. It sounds like the agents are looking to rough up the Browns front office. They are saying the Browns were "hesitant" in negotiations. Trying to publicly shame them. I am guessing they miss Randy and Jimmy's magic check books to set their clients up to be PAID.

The word is that Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz were playing the Browns for a better contract elsewhere. Mack was the first one to do it and when the Browns realized that Schwartz was doing it too they pulled the offer.

A picture of Alex Mack leaving Berea yesterday.....

 

At this point I say trade Joe Thomas.

At this point I say trade Joe Thomas.

 

I agree. They're burning the team to the ground. The earliest it could be a competitive team again is after a couple of good drafts. By that time Joe Thomas is going to be a shell of himself. Best to get what we can out of him now.

At this point I say trade Joe Thomas.

 

And Haden.  May as well get high picks and get rid of anything that was a part of all the losing.  Keep last years rookies, you have some old timers on contract that can teach.  Keep McCOwn to help teach the QB and let them get out there and play and learn.  The pressure is on Brown and Depodesta to nail the draft, which in some sense is scary because neither are football guys...on the other hand we have had some of the most notable football guys in here who have failed, so I am willing to give the data thing a try.  Most importantly, we need character guys and leadership.  Enough I with all of these jerks that come in here and cause all of the off the field stuff.

 

I actually don't mind they were quiet yesterday.  they made it clear they want to build through the draft.  So do it!  Here is a prediction...the Browns will win more games next year than they won this year (3).  They can be already in rebuilding mode and showing significant progress.  THe culture change has to be real this time.

If this regime has the same ability to draft as previous ones, I would suggest using a dart board instead of a big board when making selections.

If this regime has the same ability to draft as previous ones, I would suggest using a dart board instead of a big board when making selections.

 

Just following some of the top mock drafts out there would have resulted in far better drafts since 2012 when they had SEVEN first-round picks:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/draft-history/2010s.html

I would bet the same would hold true since 1999.

 

I was on board with both Couch and Courtney Brown.  There was some debate about Couch, but he was generally viewed as a legit franchise QB prospect.  There was a general consensus about Brown being a beast.  I don't blame them for either of those picks.

 

Things went downhill from there.  Warren over Tomlinson was mentioned upthread, but even worse IMO was taking Warren over Richard Seymour who was clearly the better prospect.  I also don't understand how a Butch Davis led Browns team could've passed on Ed Reed for William Green.  Davis coached Reed at The U for f&ck's sake.

Did Mack improve his situation much football wise? The Falcons were a mess last season after a hot start.  I mean anywhere is better than Cleveland, but it looked liked Atlanta's window as a winner was closing.

 

 

Mack thrived in Shanahan's zone blocking scheme. I suspect that played a part in his decision

And so Colin Kaepernick is the target. Hue likes him but I don't want the Browns to trade a ton to get him. I'm hearing the Browns may give up their 32nd overall pick. I hope not. That's WAY too expensive for someone else's QB.

I'd be shocked if they gave up the 32.  Shocked.  Good players in the NFL routinely get dealt for 3rd or 4th round picks.  Kaep is intriguing, especially working with Hue, but his value can't be much higher than that.

This move would confuse me.  I thought the new philosophy was to build from the ground up.  We have a great leader and locker room guy in McCown to teach a young quarterback. Im not quite sure what Kapernick gets the browns

I think they(49ers) are just trying to get Denver to give up there 1rd pick #31

They couldn't even keep Bademosi...

 

Browns special teams ace Johnson Bademosi signs with Lions for 2 years: Browns special teams ace Johnson Bademosi… https://t.co/NHQzWyaXN5