10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Alright y'all... 

 

Offense

 

• Goal Line Stands - Here's the thing, the play-calling on the goal line stands was actually terrific. The execution by players was lacking. We lined up in a BOHICA formation and tried an iso, we isolated Odell twice and targeted him, if Chubb catches the shovel pass cleanly, he walks into the endzone, the power toss was designed to give the guard space to pull and kick out, but we missed our blocks playside which blew the whole damn thing up. Freddie called literally everything we would've wanted him to call. Now, having said that, we still need to execute, particularly the o-line... but for the first time all year, I thought Freddie was on top of the play-calling with goal to go. 
• Running game - Boy oh boy Chubb & Hunt are going to be tough to stop... both are capable blockers, pass catchers, hard runners, and difficult to bring down - I think Freddie used him as well as one could expect for a first game back. 
• Passing Game - Baker's pre-snap recognition was vastly improved this game. In particular, on the touchdown to Landry, the Bill showed Cloud 6 to the Field (I thinkkkkk, might not be remembering correctly - it was zone nonetheless), but they came off the ball manned up, and Baker knew it and put that ball on Jarvis's person, not in the gap (which would have been the read against zone). Still not perfect, and I think he expected man when he took the safety but got zone, which gave him pause. 

Defense

• I actually don't think this was one of Wilks' best performances. I think he had some very unique opportunities to get 2 vs 2 on the outside with Myles Garrett alone with Knox, which would've been like pistol whipping a blind guy - instead, he often sent field zone dog blitzes, off of Olivier's butt, which led to pressure and ultimately some sacks, but I think Myles gets 3-4 sacks that game if we send more stunts and blitzes off of his butt. 
• TJ Carrie continues to be an excellent tackler and Denzel flew under the radar with a great game... the only receptions he really gave up were nearly unguardable. 
• Joe Schobert might get exposed by Vance McDonald this week, he's really struggled guarding TEs in space
• MACK WILSON IS SPECIAL. Get attached, Cleveland, because this young man is the future. He has a nose for the ball, he plays angry, he plays smart, and he's a rookie... yikes. 

Coaching

• Per my above comments, I actually think the play calls on the goal line were exactly what we'd want them to be. If you would've shown me that play call script, and told me we wouldn't score off those options, I would've laughed at you. 
• The timeout before time expired at the 3rd was awful, though. People keep defending it saying it didn't give them time to come up with a play... and:
  • A) This is the NFL, you don't "come up with" plays, I promise you McDermott had a segment of his script devoted to the down and distance scenario, 4-5 plays in 2-3 different formations. 
  • B) If you were concerned about them coming up with a play - which is absurd - then it shows an utter lack of confidence in your defensive coordinator and scheme. 
  • C) In any cost-benefit analysis, you cannot tell me that burning a timeout there is worth losing one on a two-minute drive at the end of the game. 
• Ultimately, we won against a good football team, so it's a positive.
• I'd like to see some more hurry-up mixed into games, when Freddie is calling off a script with tempo, he's a much more creative coach

@YABO713 You sir have no equal. What sports fans that never played football miss is what you see in your analysis on the goal line stand. Outside of not reading defenses well this season, Mayfield’s accuracy is severely lacking compared to last season. At least that’s my opinion. I agree the running game is a beast.
 

I completely agree with all your comments on defense. The two players that stood out for me on defense were Mack Wilson and Denzel Ward. 
 

I almost blew a gasket when he called timeout with three seconds left in the 3rd quarter. I also felt he should have taken the three points at the goal line stand. The offense obviously was out of synch.

Fantastic analysis as always and I for one, appreciate your insight!

 

That’s really great analysis @YABO713. You should probably be in a booth or behind a camera somewhere. 
 

I agree about Mack Wilson. I really like everything about him.  Seems to do the little things...like his amazing hit on Allen the other day was in bounce. I have a feeling he would’ve pulled back if it was near the line, unlike others on our team historically who would gladly give the bills a free set of downs

Edited November 13, 20195 yr by BelievelandD1

1 minute ago, BelievelandD1 said:

That’s really great analysis @YABO713. You should probably be in a booth or behind a camera somewhere. 
 

I agree about Mack Wilson. I really like everything about him.  Seems to do the little things...like his amazing hit on Allen the other day was in bounce. I have a feeling he would’ve pulled back if it was near the line, unlike others on our team historically who would gladly give the bills a free set of downs

 

Lol just a washed up college player turned NARP. 

 

Mack Wilson is cerebral too, kid has it all

Antonio Callaway has been waived by the Browns

 

 

 

The stadium looks good tonight.  My brother said that fans seem "happier" tonight than in the past.  I hope the Browns can come away with a WIN tonight.

Four interceptions tonight.  This is one of the most satisfying victories over the Steelers in YEARS!

 

We haven't seen beaten the Steelers since 2014.

 

Have the Browns turned a corner?   Maybe @KJP is right about the Browns winning nine games.

 

 

Why did the Browns have to end the game in this manner?  Their are EIGHT seconds left and this is the way the game ends?  The consequences of this will affect both teams.  The Steelers QB did throw a shady punch.  This fight is all the sports media will discuss and Rudolph will be portrayed as a "victim".

Thrilled to see the Browns beat the Steelers but does Freddie Kitchen have control of these players? What Miles Garrett did tonight is the latest ugly example....

3 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

Why did the Browns have to end the game in this manner?  Their are EIGHT seconds left and this is the way the game ends?  The consequences of this will affect both teams.  The Steelers QB did throw a shady punch.  This fight is all the sports media will discuss and Rudolph will be portrayed as a "victim".

If Garrett had controlled himself, the discussion would be about how dirty the Steelers are. Garrett needed to realize that the game was over.

This was the 2nd or 3rd time he called the Browns undisciplined in this game, but this one came after the brawl....

 

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by KJP

I hate that all of the Downtown buildings lights were turned off, for the post season show.

A true Urban Ohio guy with his priorities in order!  I thought downtown looked really nice on some of the shots - multi-colored TT...     Back to the Browns- I thought Baker did a great job on the post-game with Erin  Andrews 

1 minute ago, CleveFan said:

A true Urban Ohio guy with his priorities in order!  I thought downtown looked really nice on some of the shots - multi-colored TT...     Back to the Browns- I thought Baker did a great job on the post-game with Erin  Andrews 

He had no choice.  He told the truth.  What he said was ? on point!  

 

What Garrett has done, will affect the entire team, in a NEGATIVE manner.

Garrett is likely out the rest of the season.

two wins in less that a week? and they physically pushed the steelers around? who is this team??!! ha.

 

the big apple browns backers joint was beyond mobbed  tonight — they went berzerk with every score. lots of fun.

 

 

 

Garret's tackle of Rudolph wasn't even that hard to warrant that reaction by Rudolph. But Garret should have known better and taken the high road.

Dolphins, Steelers, Bengals, Cardinals...we have a realistic path to 8-6.

Agreed....

 

As I predicted, every sports media outlet is talking about the last 8 seconds.

 

Some are labeling this "an assault".  His career is in serious tatters after this.  I would be very surprised if he saw the inside of an NFL locker room this year or next.  I wont pretend to know the details of his personal life, but he should get into therapy RIGHT NOW.  In addition, hes black and be labeled violent and aggressive.

 

1 hour ago, MyTwoSense said:

Four interceptions tonight.  This is one of the most satisfying victories over the Steelers in YEARS!

 

We haven't seen beaten the Steelers since 2014.

 

Have the Browns turned a corner?   Maybe @KJP is right about the Browns winning nine games.

 

It wasn't a satisfying win for me at all. And that doesn't even include the last 8 seconds. The Browns offense should be playing much better but that offensive line is a mess especially at the tackles. The playcalling continues to confuse me. The defense played very well but they are going to be hurting without Garrett and Burnett. The Steelers' offense was down three starters. I think the Browns will be lucky to finish 8 - 8.

ESPN just did over a half hour on this without commercial interruption. What Garrett did was unprecedented and, of course, completely unacceptable. But I do feel real bad for him. Not only did our best defensive player “lose it” on national TV and hurt his team for the rest of the season - but this young man’s career will  be tarnished for a very long time. Any of us who have had a really bad very public moment should  be able to empathize. It’s very unfortunate. Hopefully the Browns will be able to use this moment to galvanize and reset their commitment to professionalism and team first. 

What a downer. I was rooting for the Steelers to kick the sh*t out of that idiot. 

meh. if maniac myles gets more than 4 games the players union should protest — and they would be right to. in 2006 a titans player ripped off the cowboys center’s helmet and stomped his face with his cleats, which gave the guy 30 stitches, and he got 5 games. no doubt the nfl will go for ending his season though.

7 hours ago, KJP said:

 

It wasn't a satisfying win for me at all. And that doesn't even include the last 8 seconds. The Browns offense should be playing much better but that offensive line is a mess especially at the tackles. The playcalling continues to confuse me. The defense played very well but they are going to be hurting without Garrett and Burnett. The Steelers' offense was down three starters. I think the Browns will be lucky to finish 8 - 8.

disclosure...i posted this with about a min to go

I was upset last night because I thought it was embarrassing for the team. After sleeping on it, I don't care. We watched Steelers players cheap shot and concus Browns players for years. I don't feel bad for them whatsoever. If Rudolph didn't want to get smacked in the head he shouldn't have picked a fight. I'm just ticked that Garret will be suspended for multiple games. It's a sign of immaturity and bad coaching. Like Baker said, don't do stupid sh*t to hurt the team. Play within the rules and between the whistle.

 

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Mendo

4 minutes ago, Mendo said:

I was upset last night because I thought it was embarrassing for the team. After sleeping on it, I don't care. We watched Steelers players cheap shot and concus Browns players for years. I don't feel bad for them whatsoever. If Rudolph didn't want to get smacked in the head he shouldn't have picked a fight. I'm just ticked that Garret will be suspended for multiple games. It's a sign of immaturity and bad coaching. Like Baker said, don't do stupid sh*t to hurt the team. Play within the rules and between the whistle.

 

This is a bad take.

Yet despite all of my complaints about Freddie Kitchens' play-calling and lack of discipline, this is the first season in which the Browns have beaten both the Ravens and the Steelers.

10 minutes ago, Mendo said:

I was upset last night because I thought it was embarrassing for the team. After sleeping on it, I don't care. We watched Steelers players cheap shot and concus Browns players for years. I don't feel bad for them whatsoever. If Rudolph didn't want to get smacked in the head he shouldn't have picked a fight. I'm just ticked that Garret will be suspended for multiple games. It's a sign of immaturity and bad coaching. Like Baker said, don't do stupid sh*t to hurt the team. Play within the rules and between the whistle.

 

Exactly.  As I said while watching tv, the Steelers QB threw in a cheap shot BEFORE the helmet was removed.

 

I don't believe two wrongs make a right.  You're a damn professional. no matter the city, team or player, it was uncalled for and several players should be punished.

 

Kitchens and the ownership need to get this team under control, IMMEDIATELY.

1 minute ago, KJP said:

Yet despite all of my complaints about Freddie Kitchens' play-calling and lack of discipline, this is the first season in which the Browns have beaten both the Ravens and the Steelers.

 

Are you serious?  Wow I didn't realize that.

Sadly the national media's not seen what got Garrett so angry (Rudolph trying to pull Garrett's helmet off then punching him in the family jewels). Nor do they have the context of other players who pulled opponents' helmets off and then hit them with them. They act like Garrett is the first one ever. He wasn't...

 

 

 

 

The NFL is a business that profits from human beings sacrificing their long term physical and mental well being. Myles Garrett’s violent reaction is a symptom of the problem. Any pearl clutching done by anyone involved with football is naive, cynical, or disingenuous.

Was Rudolph innocent, no. However, it all started with Garrett with a late hit on Rudolph at the end of the game where this was not needed. This ticked off Rudolph to try to pull Garrett’s helmet off and then Garett went insane. Both weren’t in the right but Garett could have seriously injured Rudolph and I still can’t believe he did what he did.

"But Rudoph" is trending on Twitter regarding the Garrett-Rudolph fight. 

 

I had to see why and it seems that people are just using those two words together as part of a sentence so often that it began trending nationally.

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by KJP

and of course here come the memes

 

 

29 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Was Rudolph innocent, no. However, it all started with Garrett with a late hit on Rudolph at the end of the game where this was not needed. This ticked off Rudolph to try to pull Garrett’s helmet off and then Garett went insane. Both weren’t in the right but Garett could have seriously injured Rudolph and I still can’t believe he did what he did.

 

You can't just gloss over that. Context matters. It was a legal hit, and not even that hard. Don't pick a fight if you don't want the consequences. Rudolph should have taken his lumps and moved onto next week.

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Mendo

2 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

You can't just gloss over that. Context matters. It was a legal hit, and not even that hard. Don't pick a fight if you don't want the consequences. Rudolph should have taken his lumps and moved onto next week.

It was more likely than not a roughing the passer. The nfl always wants to protect their QBs. So if a guy shoves you to the ground late you go after him with minimal success and then the guy basically hits you in the head with the equivalent of a baseball bat then it’s on you mostly and not the person who escalated it more? Rudolph isn’t innocent but garret has no defense here. I’d like to see everyone in this forum just take a helmet to the head with zero protections from an athletic specimen like Garrett and just take their lumps and move on. Last night just showed how kitchens has zero control of his team. Even Randall last night was head hunting. I don’t want the browns to stoop to the old Steelers levels of play.

You can't just gloss over that. Context matters. It was a legal hit, and not even that hard. Don't pick a fight if you don't want the consequences. Rudolph should have taken his lumps and moved onto next week.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Mendo

 

^ that's my take on it, nobody got hurt afaik and there was some showboating about it. yes rudy boy could have gotten badly hurt, but he didn't. it just looked terrible on a national game, but was a bunch of nothing in the end.

 

 

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by mrnyc

2 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

I’d like to see everyone in this forum just take a helmet to the head with zero protections from an athletic specimen like Garrett and just take their lumps and move on.

 

That's not at all what I said. Taking his lumps means Rudolph should have moved on after the tackle, not pick a fight with Garret.

 

And now OJ is now defending Garrett. The fact that most ex players aren’t defending Garrett tells me how the players association will feel with his future suspension.

2 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

That's not at all what I said. Taking his lumps means Rudolph should have moved on after the tackle, not pick a fight with Garret.

 

My bad, gotcha now. I agree with that. Officials lost control of game. Kitchens should have taken starters out as well.

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by WindyBuckeye

8 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

My bad, gotcha now. I agree with that. Officials lost control of game. Kitchens should have taken starters out as well.

 

And Tomlin shouldn't be calling screen plays on 3rd and 24 with 8 secs to go down by 14. The game was over. Take a knee and get out of town. There's plenty of blame to go around..

^ they should suspend both coaches a game for stupidity. calling a play like that and leaving starters in.

I haven't see anybody mention this yet but wasn't a Steeler trying to kick Garrett in the head when he was lying in the end zone?

52 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

You can't just gloss over that. Context matters. It was a legal hit, and not even that hard. Don't pick a fight if you don't want the consequences. Rudolph should have taken his lumps and moved onto next week.

You can argue he is doing all this on purpose. Getting under our best players skin while not harming his team at all (unless pouncey gets a suspension). They play again in two weeks.  They will likely have no offense and it could be a 9-6 type game. Getting Garrett out of that game helps them a tremendously 

I completely agree that what Garrett did was wrong and he needs a long suspension. However, you cannot suspend him without suspending some of the Dirty Steelers involved too. They are a dirty team, have been since Cowher ran the show there. Tomlin is no different. Garrett does not react like that (no player does) when the game is over and it is a pretty meaningless play unless someone on the Steelers did something dirty to him or were essentially doing something the whole game. The Steelers play a dirty brand of football and it seems like these types of incidents happen more frequently when the Steelers are playing someone vs when the Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Etc. play any other team.  There is something rotten in Sh*ttsburgh too

13 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

You can argue he is doing all this on purpose. Getting under our best players skin while not harming his team at all (unless pouncey gets a suspension). They play again in two weeks.  They will likely have no offense and it could be a 9-6 type game. Getting Garrett out of that game helps them a tremendously 

 

No... this wasn't 3D chess.  Rudolph got pushed around all night and had the worst game of his career.  He was frustrated at the end of the game and lost his temper when tackled (arguably late) by Garrett.  Both Garrett and Rudolph were out of their minds for about 15 seconds.  They definitely weren't thinking about the immediate consequences much less the potential consequences on their seasons. 

 

Here's my prediction:

Garrett:  6 game suspension (appealed and reduced to 4)

Pouncey:  4 game suspension

Rudolph:  2 game suspension - Rudoph arguably started the incident and continued to go after Garrett while he was backing away.  He doesn't get off penalty free.

Ogunjobi:  2 game suspension 

 

Bonus Round:

Randall:  One game for the helmet to helmet hit on Diontae Johnson that literally had him bleeding from the ears.  

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Hootenany

^ good work -- seems fair enough to me. 

https://www.tmz.com/2019/11/15/myles-garrett-helmet-attack-no-police-investigation-steelers-browns/

 

8:56 AM PT -- The NFL has suspended Myles Garrett without pay for the remainder of the 2019 season -- including playoffs -- as a result of the helmet attack.

Here's the NFL's statement ...

 

"The Pittsburgh Steelers and Cleveland Browns organizations have each been fined $250,000 and three players -- Cleveland's Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi, and Pittsburgh's Maurkice Pouncey -- have been suspended without pay for their actions in Thursday night's game."

 

"Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely -- at a minimum for the remainder of the regular season and postseason -- and must meet with the Commissioner's Office prior to a decision on his reinstatement. He was also fined an additional amount."

 

"Garrett violated unnecessary roughness and unsportsmanlike conduct rules, as well as fighting, removing the helmet of an opponent and using the helmet as a weapon."

 

More at:

 

https://www.tmz.com/2019/11/15/myles-garrett-helmet-attack-no-police-investigation-steelers-browns/

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Oldmanladyluck

Given the severity of the initial hammer, what are the chances of an appeal being successful?

I’d say zero.