December 28, 20204 yr This question is for @YABO713or any other people very familiar with the rules of football. Bakers fumble yesterday at the end was backwards and never hit the ground before Hunt got it and ran it forward. Is there something in the rule book that identifies it as a "fumble" by the way it looks? Why wouldnt that fall into the criteria of a lateral if it was backward? What if Baker got stopped and just pitched it back to hunt who advanced it, what is the difference? That makes no sense to me. I would understand if it hit the ground, but it didnt.
December 28, 20204 yr 18 hours ago, CleCaneFan said: Media: “Coach Stefanski, you have a 225 lb stud TB yet you put the ball in the hands of a 5’11” 200# QB for a 4th & inches sneak that has failed before....can you explain your decision?” WTF!!!??? While we may have our own opinions of Cleveland sports media, they do not all share one brain or one persona. BTW, that sounds like a Tony Grossi question. He is a pariah. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 28, 20204 yr 35 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said: This question is for @YABO713or any other people very familiar with the rules of football. Bakers fumble yesterday at the end was backwards and never hit the ground before Hunt got it and ran it forward. Is there something in the rule book that identifies it as a "fumble" by the way it looks? Why wouldnt that fall into the criteria of a lateral if it was backward? What if Baker got stopped and just pitched it back to hunt who advanced it, what is the difference? That makes no sense to me. I would understand if it hit the ground, but it didnt. In theory you're right. But in the NFL, a lateral is intentional and is done while maintaining possession of the football until the lateral occurs. I hear what you're saying, and wish it were the case - but there is an element of intention. FYI - this would have been a lateral in college.
December 28, 20204 yr What is the purpose of this rule, especialky if it is only in effect in the last 2 minutes?
December 28, 20204 yr 11 minutes ago, X said: What is the purpose of this rule, especialky if it is only in effect in the last 2 minutes? Assume Baker knew he was getting stuffed... in that scenario... why wouldn't he just "fumble" the ball forward and take the 50/50 chance that one of his lineman dives on it beyond the chains. That's why it only applies in the last 2 minutes.
December 28, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, YABO713 said: Assume Baker knew he was getting stuffed... in that scenario... why wouldn't he just "fumble" the ball forward and take the 50/50 chance that one of his lineman dives on it beyond the chains. That's why it only applies in the last 2 minutes. Although we can't know for sure why the rule is in place, you're probably right. However, I just wanted to point out a couple things. You cannot intentionally fumble the ball forward in the NFL. That would be ruled a forward pass and thus either be an incomplete pass or an illegal forward pass if you are past the line of scrimmage or have already thrown one forward pass during the play. Also, this rule does not only apply in the last 2 minutes. It also applies on 4th down at any point of the game. To address the previous question about the ball not hitting the ground, it does not matter. The NFL rulebook states that any loss of possession of the ball by a player which is not either a pass or a kick is considered a fumble. Nobody would look at that replay and consider Baker to be intentionally passing the ball. Also, a "lateral" (formally called a "backward pass") may or may not hit the ground, and a fumble may or may not hit the ground, but they are two separate things even if they have some similarities, such as both being able to be recovered by the other team. For one, the exception about other players not being able to advance a fumble on 4th down or in the last 2 minutes of the game does not apply to backward passes. Also, the spot of enforcement of penalties or where the ball we be marked if it goes out of bounds is different for fumbles than backward passes, which is why you see officials throw the bean bag when a ball is fumbled, but not on laterals. Edited December 28, 20204 yr by jam40jeff
December 28, 20204 yr ^ the rule against advancing a fumble in last 2 minutes came about because of the Raiders. They essentially fumbled forward to win a game. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roller_(American_football)
December 28, 20204 yr 22 minutes ago, freefourur said: ^ the rule against advancing a fumble in last 2 minutes came about because of the Raiders. They essentially fumbled forward to win a game. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roller_(American_football) Makes sense, I guess it takes the onus off the referees to have to make the subjective call on whether a forwards fumble was intentional or not. I still don't really understand why a ball fumbled backwards couldn't be advanced, though.
December 29, 20204 yr Well, if the Browns can't beat the Steelers with Rudolph the Red Nosed QB, they don't deserve to be in the playoffs. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/mason-rudolph-starting-browns/95-81b751c4-ce7e-42c3-9f63-ba721613a3de Edited December 29, 20204 yr by skiwest
December 29, 20204 yr 19 minutes ago, skiwest said: Well, if the Browns can't beat the Steelers with Rudolph the Red Nosed QB, they don't deserve to be in the playoffs. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/mason-rudolph-starting-browns/95-81b751c4-ce7e-42c3-9f63-ba721613a3de .... And for the love of God.. if we don't win... spare me the "REFS WERE OUT TO SCREW US" narrative. This game with Mason Rudolph shouldn't even be close enough to allow the refs to have an impact down the stretch.
December 29, 20204 yr I suppose this means we will again be seeing the clip of helmetgate ad nauseam throughout the week. Edited December 29, 20204 yr by skiwest
December 29, 20204 yr welp scenario #1 a win will do the trick. otherwise ... for petes sake lol: Kansas City 14-1 – AFC West division title and first-round bye Buffalo 11-3 – AFC East division title Pittsburgh 12-3 – AFC North division title BROWNS (10-5) Week 17: vs. Pittsburgh. Browns clinch playoff berth with: 1. BROWNS win OR 2. IND loss OR 3. TEN loss + MIA win or tie + BAL win or tie OR 4. BROWNS tie + BAL loss OR 5. BROWNS tie + MIA loss OR 6. BROWNS tie + TEN loss OR 7. BROWNS tie + IND tie OR 8. BROWNS tie + TEN tie + BAL win + MIA win
December 30, 20204 yr o geez louise — more covid racks the browns: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/12/another-browns-player-and-staffer-test-positive-for-covid-19-facility-closed-and-tracing-underway.html
December 30, 20204 yr Lovely. I hope the outcome of the game isn't decided by a 50 yard field goal attempt by Parkey.
December 31, 20204 yr 6 hours ago, skiwest said: Lovely. I hope the outcome of the game isn't decided by a 50 yard field goal attempt by Parkey. Or Gillan! 😅 My hovercraft is full of eels
January 3, 20214 yr welp, its about that time. do or die probably. yikes, but still all in all a nice spot for the browns to be in to finally have a chance for the playoffs. browns again have several players out due to covid protocols, like denzel ward. aside from purposefully resting starters, i wonder if pitts has any of that? i’ve suspected the browns are being much more strict about covid related issues than some teams, but thats hard to say.
January 3, 20214 yr welp its good they hung on and won. thats all that matters for today. but that the scrub pitts team could come back on them like that -- yipes.
January 3, 20214 yr I'm the last person to participate in (or even moderate) a sportzball thread but even I can appreciate the great news. Not that I really had a choice with my husband (life long die hard "AF" Browns fan) screaming at the top of his lungs 😆 clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 3, 20214 yr Yay. I'm not sure I'm going to watch next week's game. Browns are the worst of the playoff teams. It's nice to be in the playoffs again, but man this defense is awful. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 20214 yr 22 minutes ago, KJP said: Yay. I'm not sure I'm going to watch next week's game. Browns are the worst of the playoff teams. It's nice to be in the playoffs again, but man this defense is awful. Calling them "awful" is perhaps a little bit generous!
January 3, 20214 yr per espn -- naturally -- this is the browns after all! The rivalry between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Cleveland Browns will get a third installment this year. The Browns' 24-22 victory over the Steelers on Sunday, coupled with wins by the Baltimore Ravens and Buffalo Bills in the early games, sets up a meeting between the No. 3-seeded Steelers and No. 6 Browns in the wild-card round of the playoffs at Heinz Field next week.
January 4, 20214 yr I heard a good take that Stefanski was playing it close to the vest as to not tip his hand (taken with a grain of salt considering the Browns had to win to be in). Big Ben is a HOF QB, but he lacks the arm strength and elusiveness he once possessed. Having said that if Denzel can’t go it’s going to be a challenge. All things considered, I would of signed up for this season 100x out of 100 if offered in the preseason , we’re 11-5 and in the playoffs. We haven’t been able to say that since 1994. Good things ahead, go Browns! Edited January 4, 20214 yr by Sapper Daddy
January 4, 20214 yr Yes, the Steelers made it close. But the defense did not play horribly yesterday - Rudolph threw up some 50-50 balls, and their receivers made nice plays. Its a shame that Ward most likely won't be able to play.
January 4, 20214 yr Okay let me preface this by saying I love all of you.. and I love the Browns... but I need to vent... The Browns are in the playoffs. Go find something else to be miserable about in your life. The Browns aren't your punching bag anymore. Everyone wanting Stefanski to have run Nick Chubb 25-30x last game is football illiterate. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. After the Browns got up 7-0, the game got close, but was never actually in question - it just felt like it because we're Browns fans. If you notice, Stefanski limited a NUMBER of aspects of the offense in the game, but y'all grab the low-hanging fruit and scream "EMARGHERED NICK CHUBB TRIGGEREDDDDDDD". I watched the game in its entirety and saw one play with orbit motion before the snap (a staple in our offense), two RPO's (both of which targeted TEs), to my recollection zero plays in which we shifted or motioned two or more players prior to the snap (another staple), and only one slip screen. We are now going into a game with the Steelers in which we showed them maybe 40-45% of our playbook the week before. I know it would've felt good to watch Jarvis throw an end around TD to Baker, or see Chubb get 30 touches and run up the score - but what would it have been for if we give them a full book of scouting material?!?! I watched the game with my dad and literally said to him as the game started "I hope we don't show them too much." Another busy week at work, so I don't have time for a full write up, but I'll note this re: our defense. We cannot be manned up to the boundary with any corner other than Denzel Ward. Joe Woods messed up on a number of 3rd and medium to 3rd and long coverage calls, imo. The way you beat the Steelers is by keeping them in front of you, and then hoping for FG's in the red zone - NOT by bump and run with no help over top.
January 4, 20214 yr Anything can happen in the playoffs, but it doesn't happen if you don't get there. So my the only priority was to win, not to hold back on the playbook just in case you get in. How would you as a coach rationalize a loss if you didn't do everything possible to win that game? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 20214 yr 49 minutes ago, KJP said: Anything can happen in the playoffs, but it doesn't happen if you don't get there. So my the only priority was to win, not to hold back on the playbook just in case you get in. How would you as a coach rationalize a loss if you didn't do everything possible to win that game? I understand your point. But I think the Nick Chubb TD gave us the ability to choose when and where we showed the Steelers our best stuff... For instance... Baker had a fade to Higgins in the beginning of the fourth quarter for a gain of about 25, which ultimately set up our next TD. We seldom run 2-beaters to the field-side and normally rely on working the boundary against safety help over top, and Stefanski dialed one up (I believe Hooper had a speed out to occupy the field corner), and Baker put it in the soft spot in the zone before the safety could get over. That play was designed to go to the field, and Baker lightly didn't have the same options to the boundary. That was a look we probably didn't want to show them, but did. We also ran the play action throwback with Hooper, which is an excellent goalline design, and I'm sure Stefanski would've rather just run an ISO or TAG power, but he wanted 6. Imo - he was calculated when he needed to be... Didn't put Teller in too many dicey ace and combo blocks, and only showed his hand when he had the cards.
January 4, 20214 yr I absolutely will watch this game Sunday. The Browns had a mediocre effort yesterday and it wasnt the prettiest win, but they got it done...good for them. I anticipate Sundays game to look dramatically different. Stefanski has shown time and time again that he will throw some different stuff out there and i like his preparation. I think this is what makes him coach of the year...he will look at where they fell short and go after the weakesses Pittsburhg shows. I think he will be creative too. This is EXACTLY where i like this team, almost same situation as before the Dallas and Tennessee game...underdogs, not really suppose to win...and we came out firing. Where this team seems to pucker up a bit is against teams they are favorites and suppose to win (Houston, Philly, Vegas, Jets). Those were all wins that we would have lost in previous years, but they were alot closer probably than they should have been. KJP, if Freddie Kitchens was coaching this game, i agree, i wouldnt watch and it would be destined to be a loss...but Stefanski?Mayfield should have at least earned your interest for Sunday Night...they can absolutely win that game
January 4, 20214 yr I assume the network will pull out footage of The Drive, The Fumble, Red Right 88, etc. for our viewing pleasure. 😬
January 4, 20214 yr 39 minutes ago, skiwest said: I assume the network will pull out footage of The Drive, The Fumble, Red Right 88, etc. for our viewing pleasure. 😬 Don't forget the blown lead in 2002
January 4, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Don't forget the blown lead in 2002 More specifically, Northcutt's heart wrenching drop.
January 4, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Don't forget the blown lead in 2002 that one is known as 'the collapse'
January 4, 20214 yr Speaking of blown leads, how about the playoff game vs Dolphins in 1985. Browns were up 21-3 in the second half and lost 24-21.
January 4, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, skiwest said: Speaking of blown leads, how about the playoff game vs Dolphins in 1985. Browns were up 21-3 in the second half and lost 24-21. The NFL should have stopped the count.
January 5, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, skiwest said: Speaking of blown leads, how about the playoff game vs Dolphins in 1985. Browns were up 21-3 in the second half and lost 24-21. that one is known as 'the flop.'
January 5, 20214 yr ^should always win and close when you are up that big...but Browns werent very good that year. And everyone was just playing for the right to get crushed by the Bears
January 5, 20214 yr I have an opportunity to get tickets for the game at Heinz.... but supposedly PA is requiring Covid test results before entering... is anyone aware of this? (My wife is also planning to go to the Anthropology outlet near Pittsburgh to pick up one of our end tables this weekend - and I'm wondering if they are checking people on the turnpike? [though I don't think they can Constitutionally bar someone from traveling through the state])
January 5, 20214 yr Welp, this is not good. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/kevin-stefanski-covid-19-positive/95-df1759dd-4f17-48f4-b0ab-0338358b811c
January 5, 20214 yr not penn but coming to nys you are supposed to get a test three days prior. there have been traveler registration checkpoints at major crossings for nyc since august, but i dk about the rest of nys, so i guess its possible you could run into something ??? its quite distrurbing, but i think they get away with it because they do not bar entry, its an honor system, but with $$$ penalties supposedly if you break quarantine.
January 5, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, skiwest said: Welp, this is not good. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/kevin-stefanski-covid-19-positive/95-df1759dd-4f17-48f4-b0ab-0338358b811c oh geez louize, what next? right when i was hoping we had decent health and maybe a chance even. get well soon coach -- ugh.
January 5, 20214 yr you know what, how is it no one else the browns play seems to have these ongoing covid issues? do any steelers have it ?? why always the browns? again, i suspect the browns are very strict about covid, but maybe other teams not so much. then again the browns are getting it left and right, so something isn't right in house too. i must be missing something.
January 5, 20214 yr Did Stefanski come in close contact with any of the Steelers coaches or players after Sunday's game? If so, do they need to be placed in Covid protocal?
January 5, 20214 yr que disastro -- at least two other coaches and two players! via espn: A source told ESPN's Adam Schefter that the other coaches to test positive were a defensive backs coach and a tight end coach, and the players' positions were wide receiver and offensive line.
January 5, 20214 yr 54 minutes ago, skiwest said: Welp, this is not good. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/kevin-stefanski-covid-19-positive/95-df1759dd-4f17-48f4-b0ab-0338358b811c It’s Bitonio and Hodge - big hit. It seems that everyone who played in the game that was just two days ago would have potentially been exposed. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
January 5, 20214 yr exposure did not even occur to me yet. if not testing positive, how long do you have to be held out for exposure? thats at least a game isn't it? if so they have to cancel it. if its out for a few days, i guess no and they play on.
January 5, 20214 yr And the luckiest team in the league this season continues to be the Pittsburgh Steelers.
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