17 hours ago, KJP said:

Oops. Guess he should've played last year rather than sat out. He's going to have significant rust if/when he returns...

 

 

He was not allowed to play last year either. The NFL had him on an unable to play list pending the results of his criminal investigation. I think the difference is that he was paid for last year 

Yep, the sexual predator got $10.4 million last year to not play. So let's say he gets suspended the full 2022 without pay. One million divided by 26 victims is about $35,000 per victim. So that's how the NFL values women.

 

Bauer received $20 million, plus the $10 million signing bonus, in 2021, but he did win 8 games too. What an investment. Meanwhile the freak is getting $0 out of his $34 million for 2022.  That divided by three victims is about $11.33 million per victim. So that's how the MLB values women.

 

Different circumstances, sure. Some ambiguity with at least one of Bauer's victims, perhaps. And if more came forward - and you'd think they would by now - then the math adjusts. 

 

All that aside, I still think Baker might play this year. And play well. Just intuition.

I wonder if/when we'll hear the details of those settlements? Since Watson is settling, I consider that an admission of guilt. I know sometimes the matters are settled to make them go away. But if I'm innocent, I don't settle. That's just me.

 

What does this mean?

 

^ Intense shift of focus? Sounds like damage control was fully initiated to protect the important people. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/06/deshaun-watson-in-settling-and-getting-counseling-is-showing-the-nfl-hes-willing-to-do-the-work-browns-takeaways.html

 

 

Deshaun Watson, in settling and getting counseling, is showing the NFL he’s willing to do the work: Browns Takeaways

 

Can you imagine being ignorant enough to believe this vomit?

5 minutes ago, TBideon said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/06/deshaun-watson-in-settling-and-getting-counseling-is-showing-the-nfl-hes-willing-to-do-the-work-browns-takeaways.html

 

 

Deshaun Watson, in settling and getting counseling, is showing the NFL he’s willing to do the work: Browns Takeaways

 

Can you imagine being ignorant enough to believe this vomit?

 

I'm betting he'll be touring a women's shelter in about a week. 

23 minutes ago, TBideon said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/06/deshaun-watson-in-settling-and-getting-counseling-is-showing-the-nfl-hes-willing-to-do-the-work-browns-takeaways.html

 

 

Deshaun Watson, in settling and getting counseling, is showing the NFL he’s willing to do the work: Browns Takeaways

 

Can you imagine being ignorant enough to believe this vomit?

 

I'm not sure what I'm even supposed to think this means.  "Do the work"?  Seems like the "work" is to bury the problem beneath cash and get some counseling for himself.  Boy, sure hope it makes him feel better!

Well, he did give Anthony Walker a $50,000 Rolex. So there's that.

 

The fact that Walker didn't shove it up Watson's urethra is disappointing. Might have prevented some of the inevitable future "misunderstandings".

Quote

NFL has informed Deshaun Watson, players’ union and disciplinary officer it will recommend an indefinite suspension of at least a year

 

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The NFL has informed Deshaun Watson and his camp, the NFL Players Association and Disciplinary Officer Sue L. Robinson that it recommends an indefinite suspension for Watson without pay for at least a year, sources confirmed for cleveland.com.

 

Watson, 26, would be permitted to apply for reinstatement after the season.

 

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

5 minutes ago, X said:

 

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

 

"Buzbee did say in a statement on Monday however, that he’ll file ‘many’ more cases against the Texans for enabling Watson’s alleged misconduct by arranging rooms at a hotel and providing him with a non-disclosure agreement."

 

Let's hope. They all knew, just didn't care.

 

Much like Walker, Chubb, Ward, Brissett and others who have been openly supportive and complimentary of the sex predator. Then again Cosby and Weinstein had their supporters too, so there's nothing new here.

Anyone think this is going to end up being a half year? I know nothing, just my suspicion. 

 

Listened to CLE sports talk yesterday for the first time in months. It was kind of funny to hear the hosts on 92.3 soberly admit that most of Jimmy Haslam's decisions are irrational. 

57 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Anyone think this is going to end up being a half year? I know nothing, just my suspicion. 

 

Listened to CLE sports talk yesterday for the first time in months. It was kind of funny to hear the hosts on 92.3 soberly admit that most of Jimmy Haslam's decisions are irrational. 

I think at minimum, it will be a 1/2 year but if they compromise it will be a hard 1 year. 

If he does the court appeal like Brady and loses, the indefinite suspension the NFL is seeking will likely be a Kaepernick style indefinite suspension, leaving the Browns without a QB for the foreseeable future (I assume they will at least be able to void his contract at that point). 

 

The thing was that numerous teams seemed fairly confident that this was all going to be past him once the criminal charges were dropped, I found that hard to believe since the NFL never rendered verdict. Once the Trevor Bauer thing came down in baseball, this was going to be much more significant than Rothlisberger served 6 years ago or so. 

I'm hoping the contract will be voided.  It was a horrible contract.

2 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I'm hoping the contract will be voided.  It was a horrible contract.

So are 31 other teams.

38 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The thing was that numerous teams seemed fairly confident that this was all going to be past him once the criminal charges were dropped, I found that hard to believe since the NFL never rendered verdict. Once the Trevor Bauer thing came down in baseball, this was going to be much more significant than Rothlisberger served 6 years ago or so. 

 

The idea that Haslem & Co. or anyone else would think this just would all blow over shows a complete lack of awareness.  

31 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

The idea that Haslem & Co. or anyone else would think this just would all blow over shows a complete lack of awareness.  

I would not be surprised if the contract plays into this too. If Watson signed something middle of the road, or not really any different than the Houston deal he was currently under, would the NFL push as hard. Here on top of the bad optics, you have a record windfall that Watson was set to receive and it went against the rest of the NFL owners who hated the precedent of all that guaranteed money especially on someone with a checkered past. It is one thing to give Rogers or Wilson such a deal, but it is quite different to throw the stupid money at say Watson or a lesser QB.  While it will never be said, I would not be shocked if this is certainly part of the NFL's calculus. 

 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think at minimum, it will be a 1/2 year but if they compromise it will be a hard 1 year. 

If he does the court appeal like Brady and loses, the indefinite suspension the NFL is seeking will likely be a Kaepernick style indefinite suspension, leaving the Browns without a QB for the foreseeable future (I assume they will at least be able to void his contract at that point). 

 

The thing was that numerous teams seemed fairly confident that this was all going to be past him once the criminal charges were dropped, I found that hard to believe since the NFL never rendered verdict. Once the Trevor Bauer thing came down in baseball, this was going to be much more significant than Rothlisberger served 6 years ago or so. 

 

Dan Snyder's investigation, combined with Kraft and Jones' recent conduct, is the best thing to ever happen to Deshaun Watson. 

 

I know for a fact that the NFLPA is going to the mat on this if Deshaun is suspended anything beyond 4 games. And while we all agree that Watson's conduct was bad, the NFLPA and owner's agreement explicitly holds the owners to a higher standard of conduct, and a severe punishment to Deshaun Watson without commensurate actions to Snyder, Jones, and Kraft would violate that agreement. 

 

While I have visibility into some aspects of this, I don't have any into the league office, so I have no clue what length of suspension they're currently considering. However, the league knows where NFLPA will push back if they throw the book at Watson. Don't be surprised if this is just a slap on the wrist.

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Dan Snyder's investigation, combined with Kraft and Jones' recent conduct, is the best thing to ever happen to Deshaun Watson. 

 

I know for a fact that the NFLPA is going to the mat on this if Deshaun is suspended anything beyond 4 games. And while we all agree that Watson's conduct was bad, the NFLPA and owner's agreement explicitly holds the owners to a higher standard of conduct, and a severe punishment to Deshaun Watson without commensurate actions to Snyder, Jones, and Kraft would violate that agreement. 

 

While I have visibility into some aspects of this, I don't have any into the league office, so I have no clue what length of suspension they're currently considering. However, the league knows where NFLPA will push back if they throw the book at Watson. Don't be surprised if this is just a slap on the wrist.

Interesting. I do not expect a full year as they are asking. I do think it will have to be more than 4 games. The paradigm has shifted. I would be shocked if it ends up being less than 1/2 season +/- . I think the NFL motivation has changed. 

 

The only thing about the Kraft and Snyder matters (not too familiar with the Jones matter) were that they occurred before the new CBA was implemented. Secondly, how much power does Goddell truly have to sanction Jones and Kraft and even Snyder since ultimately he reports to the owners not the other way around. Jones and Kraft are the 2 most powerful owners in the league. Sanctioning them is a lot different than say going after the Haslems or going after Richardson with Carolina a few years back. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Interesting. I do not expect a full year as they are asking. I do think it will have to be more than 4 games. The paradigm has shifted. I would be shocked if it ends up being less than 1/2 season +/- . I think the NFL motivation has changed. 

 

The only thing about the Kraft and Snyder matters (not too familiar with the Jones matter) were that they occurred before the new CBA was implemented. Secondly, how much power does Goddell truly have to sanction Jones and Kraft and even Snyder since ultimately he reports to the owners not the other way around. Jones and Kraft are the 2 most powerful owners in the league. Sanctioning them is a lot different than say going after the Haslems or going after Richardson with Carolina a few years back. 

 

Understood - but the NFLPA will dig in on this. There's even been rumblings of a strike if action is taken against Watson and nothing to Snyder and Kraft, in particular. 

 

Again, this isn't the NFLPA holding out Watson's conduct as exemplary - but they see it as a worthwhile fight against hypocrisy in ownership. 

8 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Understood - but the NFLPA will dig in on this. There's even been rumblings of a strike if action is taken against Watson and nothing to Snyder and Kraft, in particular. 

 

Again, this isn't the NFLPA holding out Watson's conduct as exemplary - but they see it as a worthwhile fight against hypocrisy in ownership. 

That is quite interesting .Clearly the Kraft case parallels the Watson case pretty well. In the past the NFLPA has been a lot of bark and no bite. It will be interesting to see if this changes. 

Of course, again the NFL could be setting the public up for a hard line only to have the arbitrator rule on an 8 game suspension and act like that is their compromise on the matter.  I dont know if the Rothlisberger suspension is going to be the standard going forward for this type of activity. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

That is quite interesting .Clearly the Kraft case parallels the Watson case pretty well.

 

You mean as far as fact pattern goes?

 

Robert Kraft's criminal case was dropped because the evidence against him, though damning, was gathered illegally. Whereas the Watson issue is currently a disputed civil matter. 

 

If you're the NFL I think there are numerous factors (or excuses) for treating the two cases differently. 

Also I think it's worth noting that Kraft is an absolute bag of scum for patronizing that particular place of business. 

 

Police said some of the victims were recruited from overseas believing they were coming for legitimate jobs. "(They) did not have the ability to flee. Did not have the ability to communicate," said Loar. Seven days per week police said the victims performed sex acts in exchange for money... some victims averaging eight clients per day.

 

https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/investigation-robert-kraft-jupiter-florida-sex-sting/3686/

13 hours ago, surfohio said:

Also I think it's worth noting that Kraft is an absolute bag of scum for patronizing that particular place of business. 

 

Police said some of the victims were recruited from overseas believing they were coming for legitimate jobs. "(They) did not have the ability to flee. Did not have the ability to communicate," said Loar. Seven days per week police said the victims performed sex acts in exchange for money... some victims averaging eight clients per day.

 

https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/investigation-robert-kraft-jupiter-florida-sex-sting/3686/

 

Yeah - from what I read initially, the women were houses in wood bunks stacked 5 high on each side of a 100 square foot room in the back of the shop. Human trafficking in its worst, and someone very clearly goes there with one purpose in mind. 

 

If initial reports are right, and the NFL wants to throw the book at Watson, the NFLPA will either have to put its money where its mouth is. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-more-likely-accept-034755418.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall @YABO713 

Thought of your prior comments when I saw this. This appears to be an interesting take on the situation. 

 

lmao

They are the Browns first opponent this season.  Looks like another season opener loss.

28 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

lmao

Such a joke of a franchise. No team has ever been better at absolutely lighting top 5 picks on fire.

Edited July 6, 20222 yr by bumsquare

17 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Such a joke of a franchise. No team has ever been better at absolutely lighting top 5 picks on fire.

I'm not sure I would describe their top 5 pick performance that poorly.

 

Let's look at all top 5 picks over the last 20 years.

• 2005 - Braylon Edwards - Had a few really nice seasons in Cleveland and an exceptional 2007 campaign.  Overall below expectations though.
• 2007 - Joe Thomas - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2012 - Trent Richardson - Complete and total bust.
• 2017 - Myles Garrett - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2018 - Baker Mayfield - Overall made a positive impact on the organization, but he couldn't get over the hump.

I'm sure there are teams with worse top 5 draft pedigree than this over the last 20 years.

21 minutes ago, Hootenany said:

I'm not sure I would describe their top 5 pick performance that poorly.

 

Let's look at all top 5 picks over the last 20 years.

• 2005 - Braylon Edwards - Had a few really nice seasons in Cleveland and an exceptional 2007 campaign.  Overall below expectations though.
• 2007 - Joe Thomas - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2012 - Trent Richardson - Complete and total bust.
• 2017 - Myles Garrett - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2018 - Baker Mayfield - Overall made a positive impact on the organization, but he couldn't get over the hump.

I'm sure there are teams with worse top 5 draft pedigree than this over the last 20 years.

 

The Joe Thomas pick was a bit tainted by the subsequent Brady Quinn waste of a first round pick. 

21 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

The Joe Thomas pick was a bit tainted by the subsequent Brady Quinn waste of a first round pick. 

Huh? Not sure how that works...

48 minutes ago, Hootenany said:

I'm not sure I would describe their top 5 pick performance that poorly.

 

Let's look at all top 5 picks over the last 20 years.

• 2005 - Braylon Edwards - Had a few really nice seasons in Cleveland and an exceptional 2007 campaign.  Overall below expectations though.
• 2007 - Joe Thomas - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2012 - Trent Richardson - Complete and total bust.
• 2017 - Myles Garrett - Stud.  Hall of famer.
• 2018 - Baker Mayfield - Overall made a positive impact on the organization, but he couldn't get over the hump.

I'm sure there are teams with worse top 5 draft pedigree than this over the last 20 years.

If you stretch that just a liiiiiiittle bit you get Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, and Gerard Warren. Not sure why we had to stop at 20 years for a 23 year old franchise. I probably should have given myself more latitude and said top 10 so we can throw Barkevious Mingo and Justin Gilbert on the pile. 
 

And having a number one overall pick and sending him out for nothing after 4 seasons is absolutely a disaster. 

Edited July 6, 20222 yr by bumsquare

Right.  What a dysfunctional organization.  

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

Such a joke of a franchise. No team has ever been better at absolutely lighting top 5 picks on fire.

 

The entire point of this was to keep him away from the black and yellow team.

59 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Huh? Not sure how that works...

 

It taints the org, not JT. 

Text from my NFL Scout friend:

 

"Turns out Matt Ruhle was the useful idiot."

So the Browns get a 5th round pick and offload half of Baker's salary? Probably the best deal you can expect at this point. 

 

I almost say the Browns got the better end of it. 

Baker goes to languish in Carolina with Darnold and Corral and a coach who will probably not make it through the season. Baker will likely not put up great numbers there and further diminish his potential to get a good opportunity somewhere else. I think he could be a better version of a Ryan Fitzpatrick but his ego gets in the way. 

1 minute ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So the Browns get a 5th round pick and offload half of Baker's salary? Probably the best deal you can expect at this point. 

 

I almost say the Browns got the better end of it. 

Baker goes to languish in Carolina with Darnold and Corral and a coach who will probably not make it through the season. Baker will likely not put up great numbers there and further diminish his potential to get a good opportunity somewhere else. I think he could be a better version of a Ryan Fitzpatrick but his ego gets in the way. 

 

Turning a 1st overall pick (who got you into the playoffs and beat your archrival who has owned you for the better part of a decade) into basically nothing, while paying him $10.8m to not play for you because you traded your 1st round picks in '22, '23, and '24, plus your 3rd rounder in '23 and 4th rounders in '22 and '24 for a creep (at best) QB - and rewarding him with the most guaranteed money in NFL history - who hasn't played in two years and might be suspended for all or part of the upcoming season...is peak Browns.

In his time in Cleveland, Baker seemed to be a bit above average.  With that said, right now this appears to be an overall bad deal for the browns.  To give up a hight pick (in Baker) for nothing plus to get QB that enjoys massages (and I really like Watson the QB) seems questionable.  I hope this works well for the Browns.  

thankfully its over at last — and actually the browns were lucky to even get this. i guess it may look like a bummy deal to some people, but actually they overreached with baker in the first place. yeah im in the never liked him group. if he can heal, which is dubious, it will be fun to see what happens with him and darnold though.

 

1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Turning a 1st overall pick (who got you into the playoffs and beat your archrival who has owned you for the better part of a decade) into basically nothing, while paying him $10.8m to not play for you because you traded your 1st round picks in '22, '23, and '24, plus your 3rd rounder in '23 and 4th rounders in '22 and '24 for a creep (at best) QB - and rewarding him with the most guaranteed money in NFL history - who hasn't played in two years and might be suspended for all or part of the upcoming season...is peak Browns.

 

That's not how people in the league see it. At all. 

14 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

That's not how people in the league see it. At all. 

 

What did I state that's incorrect?

Panthers were, of course, one of the teams competing with the Browns to trade for DW.  So, i'm thinking the Browns organization feel they came out on top here. 

Edited July 6, 20222 yr by DO_Summers

So on 9/11, we pay Baker over half a million to play against our sexual predator's backup quarterback. 

 

Can't wait.

 

6 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Turning a 1st overall pick (who got you into the playoffs and beat your archrival who has owned you for the better part of a decade) into basically nothing, while paying him $10.8m to not play for you because you traded your 1st round picks in '22, '23, and '24, plus your 3rd rounder in '23 and 4th rounders in '22 and '24 for a creep (at best) QB - and rewarding him with the most guaranteed money in NFL history - who hasn't played in two years and might be suspended for all or part of the upcoming season...is peak Browns.

Baker had the opportunity to sign a reasonable extension after year 3 that would have given him options in the event that Cleveland moved on. He passed because he wanted top 5 money.  

His options were limited because he was locked into a 1 year guaranteed deal for big money. Teams would not take all that on without some assurances that Baker would not just be a one and done QB. If he did really well, he would command huge dollars, like Flacco did (and some of those teams did not want to take that risk. If he bombed, he was a very expensive mistake few teams who were on the cusp of the playoffs would want to take on.  That is why he had few suitors but players who were past their prime like Matt Ryan were more in demand, or players like Trubisky or Lock had more interest than Mayfield (less risky from salary perspective)

 

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Baker is still a good NFL QB. I would take Baker over Andy Dalton in his prime. Now, he is not Deshaun Watson, and the Browns have clearly upgraded the position, but Baker, if healthy is a top 15 QB

8 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Baker is still a good NFL QB. I would take Baker over Andy Dalton in his prime. Now, he is not Deshaun Watson, and the Browns have clearly upgraded the position, but Baker, if healthy is a top 15 QB

 

Have they upgraded though?  Good chance Watson doesn't play this year.  Then he comes back with 2 years of rust.  How he will perform after that is anyone's guess.  But we'll be paying him like a GOAT.

Just now, X said:

 

Have they upgraded though?  Good chance Watson doesn't play this year.  Then he comes back with 2 years of rust.  How he will perform after that is anyone's guess.  But we'll be paying him like a GOAT.

 

I've been wrong before. But I don't see a scenario where Watson gets suspended more than 6 games. 

 

FWIW - even if he is, a health Brisett is better than the hurt Baker we had last year. And Baker will continue to have injuries because of how he plays. The reason he hurt his shoulder is because he threw himself at a defender after an INT. Some people like that edge to him, but it ultimately is a disservice to his team. 

2 minutes ago, X said:

 

Have they upgraded though?  Good chance Watson doesn't play this year.  Then he comes back with 2 years of rust.  How he will perform after that is anyone's guess.  But we'll be paying him like a GOAT.

And we have to hope Watson doesn't do anything stupid before he is eligible to come back.