Sigh... it's not even worth getting mad about or discussing further. As we've seen over and over, sometime the bad guys win.

55 minutes ago, KJP said:

And it's the first time they're doing this arbitration approach. So would the NFL undercut this new approach by filing an appeal?

The NFL may appeal simply because of the optics, but playing it out, what would the result of an appeal be. Likely, what happens is Watson gets suspended 12 games to a year by Goddell. At which case Watson then appeals the matter to Federal court and starts week 1 and plays every week of the 2022 season while the Federal court hears the case (like what Brady did).  Then the case gets settled in the offseason and chances are the Federal Court would side with Robinson and re-instate the 6 game suspension that Watson serves in 2023.  

 

Does this help the NFL? - Certainly it helps the optics that they are doing something and trying to fight against sexual assault. However, they spend a lot of money in legal fees on what is likely a fruitless case. They still get the blame for allowing him to play even though the NFLPA and the court's essentially are mandating such. Their hands are tied. I do not think they really can improve the optics much on this and they are better off having Watson gone concurrently instead of having this drag on into 2023, IMO

 

Does the Appeal hurt Watson more? - certainly, he likely prefers to have this behind him and to move on with his life after 6 games. Also, if this drags into 2023 and he has to serve 6 games at that time, he now forfeits much larger game checks. It is clear financially why he wants to accept this and move on. 

 

Practically speaking, this seems like a no win situation for the NFL if they appeal. It probably behooves them not to appeal.  

47 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Also - I swung by training camp with a client this weekend, and for people saying the Browns were hemorrhaging fans - I've never seen a more positive reception to a new player than the one Deshaun Watson received. 

 

29 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I mean they’re def not gonna lose the dorks….I mean ardent loyalists who would be willing to go watch training camp

 

 

the fact is despite pearl clutching the browns haven't lost anybody as fans. especially if they win. what more do you need now than hemorraging fans at freakin training camp? and speaking of camp, i'm in the camp the browns will be a .500 team and will not make the playoffs, but will be entertaining. always hope i'm wrong of course -- we'll see huh!

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

Also - I swung by training camp with a client this weekend, and for people saying the Browns were hemorrhaging fans - I've never seen a more positive reception to a new player than the one Deshaun Watson received. 

 

That's not what the Beacon Journal is saying lol. 

20 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

I'm in the camp the browns will be a .500 team and will not make the playoffs, but will be entertaining. always hope i'm wrong of course -- we'll see huh!

First part of season might be rough but maybe it will be a happy ending.

sad maybe, but a lot of hoopla over a meh 6 games:

 

 

Deshaun Watson given six-game suspension over sexual misconduct accusations

By Ryan Glasspiegel

August 1, 2022 8:24am 

 Updated

 

 

The Deshaun Watson decision is finally in.

 

Retired federal Judge Sue Robinson ruled that Watson violated the league’s personal conduct policy and has levied a six-game suspension for the Browns quarterback, who was accused by more than 20 female massage therapists of sexual misconduct, ESPN.com reported. 

 

 

more:

https://nypost.com/2022/08/01/deshaun-watson-given-six-game-suspension-over-sexual-misconduct-accusations/

7 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

First part of season might be rough but maybe it will be a happy ending.

For the win

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

Sigh... it's not even worth getting mad about or discussing further. As we've seen over and over, sometime the bad guys win.

 

I get your point - and I think we probably align on most basic assumptions about this case... 

 

But maybe our initial reactions weren't supported by the facts available. 

 

Is it possible that Deshaun Watson got lucky there wasn't more evidence available? Absolutely. 

 

It's also possible that there were substantial mitigating factors that we weren't privy to - and for good reason - as the publication of the same may be extremely embarrassing to some accusers. 

 

Just now, KJP said:

 

But you also have to admit that the NFLPA would never agree to more teeth in the CBA for such infractions (or at least would demand a pound of flesh for agreeing to such terms) so the NFL, being bound by the CBA cant do anything about it. People hated in the past that Roger Goddell was judge/juror/executioner, and the NFLPA was able to get some due process provisions in the new CBA. Whether you like the length of the punishment or feel it is much too inadequate, everyone should at least be satisfied that the punishment was handed out by an independent arbitrator who was there to guarantee due process for those players involved. from that standpoint at least, it was a successful outcome. 

 

Good job, NFL.

6 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Good job, NFL.

 

This doesn't need to turn into the jurisprudence forum - but that's not unusual in these cases. Likely the NFL thought that the other cases, when included in aggregate actually hurt their case against Watson. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

This doesn't need to turn into the jurisprudence forum - but that's not unusual in these cases. Likely the NFL thought that the other cases, when included in aggregate actually hurt their case against Watson. 

I think its really tough for people to believe that the guy was doing his best Wilt Chamberlain impression post-Cosby and Weinsein. Which I get. But I think that when you look at how things have shaken out, its pretty clear that he isn't, in the words of the big orange guy, doing all the raping.

Edited August 1, 20222 yr by Ineffable_Matt

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

This doesn't need to turn into the jurisprudence forum - but that's not unusual in these cases. Likely the NFL thought that the other cases, when included in aggregate actually hurt their case against Watson. 

So, if info emerges in the pending case, you would assume the NFL could reopen the matter as a fresh claim and then treat it all as a new incident then, correct?

13 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So, if info emerges in the pending case, you would assume the NFL could reopen the matter as a fresh claim and then treat it all as a new incident then, correct?

 

The pending case is one of the 5 that was considered, from my understanding. 

“In regards to sexual assault, Robinson's report shows that the NFL was able to support its claim. 

Robinson said Watson not caring about massage therapists' credentials, using a towel instead of a sheet, and the probability that he had an erection during these sessions led to her decision on that claim.

 

In regards to conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person, Robinson's report shows that the NFL proved its claim.

The NFL said therapists were afraid after their interaction with Watson and one even sought therapy, according to the report. 

"Mr. Watson’s conduct posed a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person," Robinson wrote.”

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/browns/what-we-learned-from-sue-l-robinsons-report-on-deshaun-watson

5 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

This is insane logic.  Since the NFL has always been poor about punishing sexual assault, it should continue being poor about punishing sexual assault forever?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Watson pretty clearly *not* shown remorse?

 

Re: Robinson - One odd thing is that she levied no fine, which she was allowed to do. She also levied "massages only from Browns staff", which she freely admitted she didn't have the power to do.

Edited August 3, 20222 yr by DarkandStormy

Yes, Watson made it pretty clear that he didn't think he had a problem to fix. Not sure I appreciate the use of triggered in that statement from the Haslams. Go Guardians.

I think this sums it up pretty well. The Browns are ok with giving a quarter billion to a person who committed sexual assault.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/08/debate-the-deshaun-watson-suspension-but-the-reports-finding-is-clear-he-did-it-doug-lesmerises.html

 

So given the NFL is appealing it seems the odds look pretty good for Watson to start week 1 this year and play all season

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So given the NFL is appealing it seems the odds look pretty good for Watson to start week 1 this year and play all season

It’s funny you mentioned this, I’m watching the Hall of Fame game and they just said the opposite. They say there is little chance he plays until week 7 and Watson’s reps know that but he will play in the pre season. 

6 minutes ago, 646empire said:

It’s funny you mentioned this, I’m watching the Hall of Fame game and they just said the opposite. They say there is little chance he plays until week 7 and Watson’s reps know that but he will play in the pre season. 

If the NFL Dear similar longer suspension, especially like a year or longer, what stops him from taking her to court and Getting an injunction like Tom Brady did?  
If it goes to federal court, it will not be heard until sometime next year. I can’t see why he would sit in the prime of his career All the court case is playing out.

Did the commentators offer any insight on that?

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

If the NFL Dear similar longer suspension, especially like a year or longer, what stops him from taking her to court and Getting an injunction like Tom Brady did?  
If it goes to federal court, it will not be heard until sometime next year. I can’t see why he would sit in the prime of his career All the court case is playing out.

Did the commentators offer any insight on that?

They didn’t go into too many details but it’s seems as tho even with the NFL appealing for a longer suspension that doesn’t change the fact Watson and the Union are both on board and agree with the 6 game suspension and he will serve at least those games suspended regardless.  Also remember his contract is setup where he is only getting like a million bucks or whatever it is this year anyway. He would be foolish to try to play now and push the suspension to next year and lose way more money per game.

Edited August 5, 20222 yr by 646empire

I don't think the NFL wants this to go to federal court. A thread...

 

 

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

They didn’t go into too many details but it’s seems as tho even with the NFL appealing for a longer suspension that doesn’t change the fact Watson and the Union are both on board and agree with the 6 game suspension and he will serve at least those games suspended regardless.  Also remember his contract is setup where he is only getting like a million bucks or whatever it is this year anyway. He would be foolish to try to play now and push the suspension to next year and lose way more money per game.

That is the thing I have always questioned. From Watson POV he does not give up much to take the suspension this year but putting it off to next year would cost him dearly. Which is why i was a bit surprised that he did not accept a 12 game suspension this year offered by the league to get it over with. 

Did anyone else see reports that the NFL dug in on a 12 game suspension because they do not want Watson to face the Houston Texans in game 12?  

I read that on fan nation, but have to imagine the general reaction to the predator wouldn't be that different if he started against Tampa the week prior.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 20222 yr by TBideon

so 12 games or a full season and fines seems most likely now?

 

and then regardless — after missing two years of course he comes back next season and gets hurt in an early game.

 

such is the browns luck since the days of the saintly jim brown …

 

but seriously, there is no way he can stay healthy after coming back in the late season this year or two full years off. has any nfl player ever done that before? maybe, but i cant think of any example. a kicker maybe? mj in the nba is all i got.

 

On 8/5/2022 at 4:17 PM, mrnyc said:

so 12 games or a full season and fines seems most likely now?

 

and then regardless — after missing two years of course he comes back next season and gets hurt in an early game.

 

such is the browns luck since the days of the saintly jim brown …

 

but seriously, there is no way he can stay healthy after coming back in the late season this year or two full years off. has any nfl player ever done that before? maybe, but i cant think of any example. a kicker maybe? mj in the nba is all i got.

Watson (and the Haslams) are best to negotiate at this point to keep it to 12 games because obviously the league is pissed. The owners dont like the Haslams and I bet part of the reason they are all in to go after Watson is the other owners are not happy with Haslem resetting the QB compensation market on someone with a checkered history like Watson. 

Watson is best suited to keep the fines as low as possible and get it done this year. 

On 8/5/2022 at 4:17 PM, mrnyc said:

so 12 games or a full season and fines seems most likely now?

 

and then regardless — after missing two years of course he comes back next season and gets hurt in an early game.

 

such is the browns luck since the days of the saintly jim brown …

 

but seriously, there is no way he can stay healthy after coming back in the late season this year or two full years off. has any nfl player ever done that before? maybe, but i cant think of any example. a kicker maybe? mj in the nba is all i got.

 

If I'm the NFLPA, I'm taking this to Federal Court and asking for discovery on each investigation into Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, Jim Irsay, etc etc, even predating the CBA. Go to the rack for an unequal enforcement claim. 

 

The suspension will be stayed during that process FWIW. 

2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

If I'm the NFLPA, I'm taking this to Federal Court and asking for discovery on each investigation into Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, Jim Irsay, etc etc, even predating the CBA. Go to the rack for an unequal enforcement claim. 

 

The suspension will be stayed during that process FWIW. 

I'm willing to bet that Watson wants that suspension this year, though.  I mean, the Browns did structure his contract that way in order to help him avoid most of the financial hit of his punishment.

3 hours ago, YABO713 said:

The suspension will be stayed during that process FWIW. 

I agree with you the suspension is stayed and he would start week 1 theoretically but it does put Watson in a quandary.

1) on one hand, he could play all of 2022 under the cloud and distraction and hope he prevails in court with no suspension or most likely the 6 game suspension that was originally given to him. I do not think the court would reduce the 6 game suspension since they are likely only deciding if the NFL has the power to discipline him beyond the 6 games in the CBA (IMO So if he waits until 2023 to serve any suspension, he is out a lot more money given the backloaded nature of his contract.

2) On the other hand, he could try and negotiate somewhere in the 9-12 game range, put it behind him and escape with the least amount of money at stake since he gets paid such a small amount this year. 

 

If I were Watson, I would look to cut a deal and put it behind me. However, I can see why he would fight it too and I do think he gets screwed a bit on the due process part by the NFL.  I have my doubts as to his success in court given Brady's struggles 6 years ago, but I do agree he has a worthwhile case. Plus, it also strengthens his negotiating hand some since he could air a lot of dirty laundry the NFL may not want out there.  I think there is a deal to be cut for both sides if either side is truly willing. Watson is going to have to give up more games and the NFL may need to come off their fine some, but there is a deal out there for both sides, I bet in the 9-12 game range maybe

https://sports.yahoo.com/nflpa-backs-off-notion-injunction-001453655.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

So, it looks like any fight with Watson and the league will be for anything from week 7-X.

If I were Watson I would want to negotiate something to keep this from going to the following season where he stands to lose much more

On 8/5/2022 at 4:17 PM, mrnyc said:

such is the browns luck since the days of the saintly jim brown …

 

luck?  They didn't draft the guy.  No one made them sign him.  They chose to trade for him knowing all this was lurking out there.  This is a mess of their own making.

No injunction against this freak from playing game one? Ridiculous.

^ hang on to your helmet, supposedly this peter harvey fellow decides by the end of the week.

1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

luck?  They didn't draft the guy.  No one made them sign him.  They chose to trade for him knowing all this was lurking out there.  This is a mess of their own making.

 

They begged for this.  They bet the farm on this.  They threw away their entire "character and accountability" mantra for this- as if those two things ever mattered to sleazebag Haslam.

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

^ hang on to your helmet, supposedly this peter harvey fellow decides by the end of the week.

 

What are the optics of replacing a retired federal judge both sides agreed on with a former prosecutor picked by the appelant?

19 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

If I'm the NFLPA, I'm taking this to Federal Court and asking for discovery on each investigation into Robert Kraft, Jerry Jones, Jim Irsay, etc etc, even predating the CBA. Go to the rack for an unequal enforcement claim. 

 

The suspension will be stayed during that process FWIW. 

I said the same thing. There’s no way any of the owners want all their dirty laundry aired out in public.

37 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

What are the optics of replacing a retired federal judge both sides agreed on with a former prosecutor picked by the appelant?

 

 

the optics are that goodell is woke and watson will get this season off.

 

then of course watson comes back next year after two years off and immediately gets hurt. 

 

nobody around the nfl will care because they don't like haslam as much as they dont like bad publicity.

 

you could say oh you're just projecting the worst and yeah i am, but worst is how it always goes for the browns.

17 minutes ago, stpats44113 said:

I said the same thing. There’s no way any of the owners want all their dirty laundry aired out in public.

This idea sounds like a hot mess for both sides, with the players still losing in the end. We all have to keep in mind these folks OWN these teams. I also don’t think a court would grant such a thing. In addition I very seriously doubt NFLPA would want to dare go nuclear over Watson. 

Edited August 9, 20222 yr by 646empire

FWIW - I think a long (10+) suspension was included in the Haslam's calculus for signing him. 

i'm sure it was. they have dubious judgement, but they have the coin to gamble on this.

About time. I wish he would've said it sooner so I wouldn't have to give him the benefit of the doubt...

 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 1:03 PM, mrnyc said:

 

 

the optics are that goodell is woke and watson will get this season off.

 

then of course watson comes back next year after two years off and immediately gets hurt. 

 

nobody around the nfl will care because they don't like haslam as much as they dont like bad publicity.

 

you could say oh you're just projecting the worst and yeah i am, but worst is how it always goes for the browns.

 

As Goodell has worked in the league office since 1982, he's a big part of the institutional memory that still resents Cleveland for forcing them to do something they did not want to do.    They also resented the modells, but they were able to run them out of the league pretty quickly.

28 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

As Goodell has worked in the league office since 1982, he's a big part of the institutional memory that still resents Cleveland for forcing them to do something they did not want to do.    They also resented the modells, but they were able to run them out of the league pretty quickly.

 

The NFL seems to really hate Browns fans. I blame the league for the team moving and for virtually all the expansion chaos. 

Yes, everything is a big, shadowy conspiracy that we can project our personal hang-ups onto.