^ No it means Vegas didn't know how good these Browns are or how to rate them.

Peter King likes the Browns again....

 

1 p.m. ET (Fox) Atlanta Falcons (3-1) at Cleveland Browns (1-3)

Eric Mangini on this generation's Norm Bulaich, Browns jumbo back Peyton Hillis: "Even I avoid him in the hallway.'' I say Hillis eats enough of the clock against the Falcons to make this my upset special.

Browns 23

Falcons 21

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/07/weekend.pickoff/index.html#ixzz11hrZ26ox

^ No it means Vegas didn't know how good these Browns are or how to rate them.

 

Does Vegas pull these numbers out of its butt?  My understanding is that the line moves as people bet a one way or another, which means that technically SHS's statement is true.  Think of the whole "wisdom of crowds" thing, with the crowds in this case underrating the Brownies.

Apparently Hillis was injured in practice today.  I saw no word on how serious, just that it's a thigh injury.

Seems like he should be fine for Sunday.

 

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/14951

^ No it means Vegas didn't know how good these Browns are or how to rate them.

 

Does Vegas pull these numbers out of its butt? My understanding is that the line moves as people bet a one way or another, which means that technically SHS's statement is true. Think of the whole "wisdom of crowds" thing, with the crowds in this case underrating the Brownies.

 

Yes there is the "wisdom of the crowds", and I'm sure Vegas isn't worrying too much about the Browns covering two games.  What it likely means is that the bookmakers didn't really know how bad the Bengals really were or how close the Ravens seem to play everyone.  IMO That had more to do with the Browns covering.  The pushes are actually the bookies calling the game exactly.

So who will we see under center this coming Sunday?  It's a shame that Seneca went down, the game was winnable at that point.  I don't really blame Delhomme for not playing well... but I wish he would have just taken a sack.

Based on PD's report this morning, it looks like McCoy may very well start. Talk about baptism by fire.

 

Eric Mangini expects Colt McCoy to 'seize' his chance if his Cleveland Browns debut is vs. the Steelers

Published: Monday, October 11, 2010, 9:05 PM   

 

BEREA, Ohio -- With Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace "really hurting" from their high ankle sprains, a league source says the team is prepared to start rookie Colt McCoy in Pittsburgh

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/eric_mangini_expects_colt_mcco.html

^Nothing good can come of this.  Either the Browns will get trounced (likely) or they will win and Browns fans will think McCoy is the second coming.  Then we get mired in a two year McCoy experiment...

Let's be realistic. They will not win...and we should not be getting down o them because this growing process will take a while. However, how many times have we witnessed little to no-name qb's come in and look like all-stars against the Browns?

Is there some kind of rule that we have to throw our rookie QB's, for their first start, into the fire against Pittsburgh's or Baltimore's defense?

So last year when the Browns were 1-11 playing the Steelers on a Thursday night, how many of you thought they could win?  Anything can happen.  Kosar led the Browns to a division title as a rookie.  Rapelisberger led the Steeers to a 15-1 record as a rookie.

 

I don't have lofty initial expectations, but I'm excited to see Colt get a shot.  Neither Wallace or Delhomme are the future of this team. 

Well if Hillis is healthy, then we should be seeing a lot more running then passing anyway. Also I have to imagine we're going to see every possible variation of the Wildcat. Still, this isn't going to be pretty.

So last year when the Browns were 1-11 playing the Steelers on a Thursday night, how many of you thought they could win? Anything can happen. Kosar led the Browns to a division title as a rookie. Rapelisberger led the Steeers to a 15-1 record as a rookie.

 

I don't have lofty initial expectations, but I'm excited to see Colt get a shot. Neither Wallace or Delhomme are the future of this team.

 

Agreed he was drafted to be the future, but the early reports I heard Colt was that he just wasn't ready for the pro game (this was preseason reporting, admittedly). I don't know how quick of a study he is that 5 weeks makes a difference. I guess we're going to get a chance to see, though.

If the Browns don't turn the ball over one time, and keep penalties to a minimum, it will be a pretty fun game to watch.  I don't care who your QB is, games are lost on turnovers and penalties and that is it.  Don't give up yards, and don't give up posession.  Also, do not let McCoy throw the ball inside the Browns 30 yard line.  In fact, I wouldn't even play a traditional QB inside the 30, JMHO.  Just keep Cribbs and Hillis in the backfield, try to gain some yardage, and at least pin Pitt down in their 10 if you have to.   

I don't care who your QB is, games are lost on turnovers and penalties and that is it.

 

Games are also lost when you can't get more than a couple first downs in an entire game.  See early 2000s Browns for reference.

If they aren't signing scrub QBs to minimum contracts I'm not terribly worried about them throwing McCoy out there.  I'm really hoping for average performance.  If he gets sacked 8+ times or looks like the second (third? fourth?) coming of QB Jesus we're screwed.

The problem is, I don't see the Browns not turning the ball over.  Like I told a friend yesterday, I will still take this team over last years.  I hope this actually builds to something, not just to the next rebuilding again.

I'm setting the over/under on the number of Colt's cracked ribs at 3.5

^My thoughts exactly.  If we can come out of this game with an intact QB, call it a win.

Let's just hope bizzaro Joe Thomas doesn't show up again or Colt will be toast. I was listening to Terry Pluto's podcast and he was asked about Joe's performance. He said that he basically doesn't handle heat well and gets dehydrated really easily and he lost 20 lbs during the hot ass training camp. Then the Tampa game was a scorcher and the KC game was hot too. Then he bounced back for Cincy when it cooled down. Terry however had no clue what was his problem last week. I also heard Grossi say that Joe has a sore elbow that he is limiting him a bit. As far as Steinbach goes, those two are a team so if Joe is struggling Steinbach can't pick up the slack by himself.

So last year when the Browns were 1-11 playing the Steelers on a Thursday night, how many of you thought they could win?  Anything can happen.  Kosar led the Browns to a division title as a rookie.  Rapelisberger led the Steeers to a 15-1 record as a rookie.

 

I don't have lofty initial expectations, but I'm excited to see Colt get a shot.  Neither Wallace or Delhomme are the future of this team. 

 

Kosar started only half of the games in his rookie year, had two 1,000-yard runners, a hall-of-fame tight end in his prime, a top-five ranked defense and played in a weak division in which an 8-8 record earned them the division title.

 

There is no comparison to Kosar and his rookie season.

KJP= The eternal Browns realist.

 

Cleveland Frowns had a good piece a few days ago on the rash of ankle sprains points to a problem with strength and conditioning....mostly having to do with lack of proper streching regiments.

 

 

Cleveland Frowns had a good piece a few days ago on the rash of ankle sprains points to a problem with strength and conditioning....mostly having to do with lack of proper streching regiments.

 

... or, perhaps, 280 lb defensive lineman diving at their ankles.

 

BTW, stretching and strengthening is not going to prevent an ankle sprain as much as it will minimize its severity.

You can't make this stuff up...

 

Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/10/13/eagles.browns.trade.ap/index.html?eref=sircrc

 

Posted: Wednesday October 13, 2010 3:41PM ; Updated: Wednesday October 13, 2010 3:41PM

Eagles, Browns swap running backs

 

BEREA, Ohio (AP) -- The Cleveland Browns have traded disgruntled running back Jerome Harrison to the Philadelphia Eagles for running back Mike Bell.

 

Harrison, who rushed for 561 yards in Cleveland's final three games last season, has been upset with his role this year. He ran for just 6 yards on six carries last week in a loss to Atlanta. One week earlier, he didn't carry the ball in Cleveland's win over Cincinnati

 

^ fucking bullshit. Fuck the browns

What a weird trade.  I don't see the reasoning, unless Harrison was causing trouble in the locker room.

Mangini and Daboll owe their jobs to Harrison. They were against him all season, with Magini basically saying he wanted a tough running back over an elusive one. They hardly played him and everytime Harrison went in Daboll gave him a play where he got no FB and they ran him right down the middle. Harrison is the type of guy who is better off running to the side with a FB lead blocking

Well mangini and daboll don't make the trades, heckert and holmgren do. And my guess is that if a certain player doesn't get on the field through 3 different coaching and gm regimes, there is probably an issue with the player on some level.

I was sort of expecting this.  I'm fine with it and I imagine Harrison is happy too.  He wasn't happy with his situation and the team wasn't giving him much of a chance.  I hope things work out for him in Philly.

What a weird trade.  I don't see the reasoning, unless Harrison was causing trouble in the locker room.

 

Harrison was not happy and wanted out.  I understand his frustration, but it sounds like he was becoming a problem in the locker room.  The move doesn't shock me.

What a weird trade. I don't see the reasoning, unless Harrison was causing trouble in the locker room.

 

Harrison was not happy and wanted out. I understand his frustration, but it sounds like he was becoming a problem in the locker room. The move doesn't shock me.

 

I'm not shocked either. For whatever reason, Mangini didn't see him having a role in his system, and it was just going to devolve from there. While Holmgren / Heckert engineered the trade, I have no doubt it was requested by Mangini.

 

Don't agree with it...he was the top offensive producer for the browns last year, but it's done. Hopefully this power-run game works out.

I think he was done when he tripped over Steinbach's feet last week because he wasn't pumping his legs and lifting his feet. If you are going to take the close cut off your guard in a big hole you need to know where he is at.

 

 

just saying.

Harrison will fit Philly's system better, where he can attempt to emulate Brian Westbrook.  He just was not a Cleveland type running back.  He's talented, but consistency was always a problem with him.  Don't sleep on Mike Bell either.  Philly acquired him in the offseason for a reason.  He won't be a starter, but can be a capable backup.

I think we're going to like Bell.  He's a 1-cut, between the tackles, heavy runner.  He'll combine with Hillis for a good 1-2 punch, especially late in the game when the D gets tired of tackling bowling balls.  That is the identity the Browns are trying to build, Harrison just didn't fit..

 

Wish Harrison all the best, he seemed to be a good guy, kept quiet even though he didn't agree with what was happening to him.

I think he was done when he tripped over Steinbach's feet last week because he wasn't pumping his legs and lifting his feet. If you are going to take the close cut off your guard in a big hole you need to know where he is at.

 

I agree he needed to be getting his feet off the ground more when he runs.  It seemed he was running lazy this year and dancing around before he hit the hole more than last year.  The play you're talking about though was hardly a huge hole.  There was a small hole there, but I think he had to cut close off Steinbach to squeeze through it.

Ok huge hole was probably an exegeration but he picks up at least 3 or 4 yards if he doesn't trip. Does anybody know anything about Mike Bell?

He's a big back.  Close to 230 lbs.  Undrafted out of Arizona.  27 years old, but a lot of tread left on the tires.  New Orleans used him quite a bit last year in their march to the Super Bowl, especially inside the red zone.  I think he had close to 700 yards rushing last year.  Not much of a reciever out of the backfield. 

"27 years old, "BUT" a lot of tread left on the tires".  Please don't tell me you are implying that 27 is over the hill (even in the NFL)...if yes I am going to go out back and just shoot myself now.  :wink:

^ For a RB in the NFL, 27 can be relatively old.  Most RBs only have about 5 or so good years out of college before they start to go downhill.... fast.  This is especially true for the big backs that make their living 'moving the pile.'

RB's have a very short shelf life relative to most anyone on the field.  Many cannot adapt to the changes they have to make when they lose their quickness/speed around 30 and end up retiring.

 

Edit: Damn my ADD web browsing.

^ For a RB in the NFL, 27 can be relatively old. Most RBs only have about 5 or so good years out of college before they start to go downhill.... fast. This is especially true for the big backs that make their living 'moving the pile.'

Yes, but Bell has had about as many carries in his NFL career as most starting running backs have in one year.  I believe that is what was meant by "a lot of tread" left on the tires.

^ For a RB in the NFL, 27 can be relatively old. Most RBs only have about 5 or so good years out of college before they start to go downhill.... fast. This is especially true for the big backs that make their living 'moving the pile.'

Yes, but Bell has had about as many carries in his NFL career as most starting running backs have in one year. I believe that is what was meant by "a lot of tread" left on the tires.

 

Right.  You are quoting MY post about him having "a lot of tread" left on the tires ;)

For a RB in the NFL, 27 can be relatively old.

 

Yep, ask Robert Smith.

 

From what I've heard about Mike Bell (and the very limited amount of times I've seen him run the ball) he runs very similar to Peyton Hillis.  He picks his spot early, cuts, and hits it hard regardless of whether the hole has opened up or not.  I personally like this type of runner.  They may not break off as many big runs, but they're much more likely to bowl ahead for 2 or 3 yards in cases where a finesse runner would be dropped at the line or even for a loss.  He definitely seems to fit the traditional Cleveland Browns football mentality well.

I like that type of runner too.  Harrison never trusted the hole would be there.  That was his problem in Mangini's system.  At the high school level and even to an extent in college, a good RB can get the ball, survey the line, then pick a hole and go.  In the NFL, with the exception of stretch/zone plays, the RB is more often than not told to go full steam towards the hole before it is even there.  The speed of the game is too great for a runner to play pitty-pat with his feet in the backfield like Jamal Lewis was doing last year.  They have to have faith that that the butts of the guard and tackle, for example, will be separating just as they get to where the hole is supposed to be.  Of course, some RBs with ridiculous instincts and/or physical talent (e.g., Barry Sanders) can improvise on a consistent basis, even at the NFL level.

If James Harrison does not get fined and/or suspended for EITHER of those hits yesterday, I am going to be pissed.  Ward lays into Shipley with his shoulder, is flagged for 15 yards and gets a $15,000 fine.  These penalties were under the relatively new 'defenseless receiver' rule.  Harrison leads into both hits yesterday with the top of his helmet, 'ear-holing' our only two downfield threats, and is not flagged on either one.  WTF?  Spearing (leading with the top of the helmet) has been illegal in the NFL for several decades.  How did the refs miss BOTH?  The league office better take notice of this.

Mccoy looked good on sunday, better then i was expecting

If James Harrison does not get fined and/or suspended for EITHER of those hits yesterday, I am going to be pissed.  Ward lays into Shipley with his shoulder, is flagged for 15 yards and gets a $15,000 fine.  These penalties were under the relatively new 'defenseless receiver' rule.  Harrison leads into both hits yesterday with the top of his helmet, 'ear-holing' our only two downfield threats, and is not flagged on either one.  WTF?  Spearing (leading with the top of the helmet) has been illegal in the NFL for several decades.  How did the refs miss BOTH?  The league office better take notice of this.

 

And the worst part is that the one on Massaquoi was both spearing and hitting a defenseless receiver.  He should be fined three times (spearing Cribbs, spearing Massaquoi, hitting Massaquoi as a defenseless receiver).

Yeah, and to add insult to literal injury the BROWNS were penalized 5 yards.  Argh.

 

McCoy did look good.  I hate, hate, hate loosing to Pittsburgh but I think this is a case where we were flat out beat and did not beat ourselves... which in a strange way is probably a good thing.  Terry Bradshaw called the Browns tough the other day, that was pretty awesome.

From listening to the radio this am, it sounds like the league is planning on implementing a low level of tolerance for these spear type hits going forward (first time offenders get suspended). I'd expect a few significant fines at a minimum for Harrison, Robinson and Meriweather.