Realistically guys, i didnt expect Haslem to hire someone who just got fired.  He is a competitive, agressive, high-risk high-reward businessman and is successful.  You think he wants to hire someone elses trash?  No way.  That would be inconsistent with his philosophy.  I agree.  If Wisenhut & co. were that great anywhere else they would still be there.  I like the hire, especially with Norv coming to town.  Im a little concerned about moving to a 3-4 defense, when our defense was really strong this year.  I fear Jabal SHeard may be useless.  BUT, offensively, we will be airing it out, no doubt.

 

Agree 100% with all of that. PLUS, let's not forget he's an Ohioan and grew up a Browns fan. Does that make him a better coach? Not necessarily, but it's a plus.

Realistically guys, i didnt expect Haslem to hire someone who just got fired.  He is a competitive, agressive, high-risk high-reward businessman and is successful.  You think he wants to hire someone elses trash?  No way.  That would be inconsistent with his philosophy.  I agree.  If Wisenhut & co. were that great anywhere else they would still be there.  I like the hire, especially with Norv coming to town.  Im a little concerned about moving to a 3-4 defense, when our defense was really strong this year.  I fear Jabal SHeard may be useless.  BUT, offensively, we will be airing it out, no doubt.

 

Different sport, but would you consider Francona to be trash?  Oftentimes in sports, coaches are only as good as their players. 

BUT, offensively, we will be airing it out, no doubt.

 

And this, in turn, will help the running game. Norv Turner's offense will be the best thing ever for T-Richardson.

Thats ESPECIALLY true in Baseball.  More than football.  Francona didnt get fired because of lack of success either.  The year he got fired, they were a game out of the playoffs. 90+ wins.  He just fell victim to some headcases, a meltdown, and a world series or bust mentality.  Ill take 90+ wins any day of the week for baseball.  We have seen time and time again coaches in the nFL win with marginal talent.

According to ESPN Norv is not a lock he has interest from other teams like Dallas but they said we offer him something other teams can't.....the ability to coach with his son Scott

Im a little concerned about moving to a 3-4 defense, when our defense was really strong this year.  I fear Jabal SHeard may be useless.

 

If they switch to the 3-4, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved Sheard to outside linebacker. He's only 6-2 and weighs 255. He runs a 4.69 in the 40 with those 255 pounds which is fast for a DL and is respectable for even an OLB. Only seven OLBs in the 2012 combines had faster 40 times than Sheard (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/89). And if he dropped 20-30 pounds, his speed should improve.

^ Good insight.  I didn't realize he was only 255.  I was thinking more in the 275-280 range.  Also, I fear P. Taylor may not fit in a 3-4.  335 seems too big for a DE in the 3-4.

 

EDIT:  I guess DEs should be bigger in the 3-4 to take up more gaps.  But it all depends on having great linebackers.

You both are forgetting that the orignal plan with Sheard was to play him at the rush DE on the right side of the defense.  That is where you put your speed rushers in hybrid roles.  But it turns out he was much better playing the strong side with his hand in the ground all the time. 

 

What worries me about switching to a 3-4 is that we are minimizing perhaps the team's greatest strength, which is a deep and disruptive defensive line.  It also exposes perhaps our greatest weakness on defense, which is a lack of depth and talent at LB.  In a 3-4, your lineman are asked to do little more than keep the OL off the LBs.  The LBs have to be playmakers.  DQ52 already showed himself to be much, much more effective in a 4-3 with two big tackles in front of him.  We don't have anyone to play the hybrid OLB role (I guess you can lock in either Jarvis Jones or Demontrae Moore with the #6 pick).  I think Taylor and Rubin can both play DE in the 3-4, but it takes away their ability to disrupt plays in the backfield.  I don't think either is going to be happy with playing NT.

 

I suppose it is only fitting that, after years and years of not being able to get pressure on the QB with our front four, we are going in a different direction just one year after we were able to apply that pressure on a consistent basis with the personnel we had.

 

Rant off.  I am going back to my positive outlook.

Well, that was surprising!  I'm neutral about the hire of Chud.  I like the Browns fan backstory and I will love it if he is successful with the Browns.... unlike Brady Quinn.

 

So.... will Derek Anderson be rejoining the team as a backup qb?

A little off topic, but Bernie Kosar is on ESPN Cleveland and he sounds as clear and articulate as I've ever heard.  I'm so happy to hear this new treatment appears to be working wonders with him.  It was tremendously sad to hear him on the radio and on TV and struggle mightily.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8833397/bernie-kosar-former-cleveland-browns-quarterback-finding-help-concussions

 

 

A little off topic, but Bernie Kosar is on ESPN Cleveland and he sounds as clear and articulate as I've ever heard.  I'm so happy to hear this new treatment appears to be working wonders with him.  It was tremendously sad to hear him on the radio and on TV and struggle mightily.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8833397/bernie-kosar-former-cleveland-browns-quarterback-finding-help-concussions

 

 

 

Kosar was also on CNN this morning. Several years ago, I recall numerous persons commented that Kosar sounded drunk while doing the commentary during pre-season games. Very sad that players take such a beating during games that they are "punch drunk" years after they stop playing.

He always slurs his words, but a few weeks ago on the radio, he most definitely was tanked.  I mean hammered.  The hosts had to cut him off it was so obvious. 

 

http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16931809/Bernie#./Bernie?&_suid=135792125925207514357065011827

About running a 4-3 or 3-4 defense, Chudzinski says there are a lot of hybrid defense out there and with the personnel Browns have, they can go either way

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/rob_chudzinski_press_conferenc.html#incart_maj-story-1

 

I can live with that...

^ I have a tough time assumming that a guy with at least 12 documented concussions (when concussions weren't documented well) was drunk on air.  Maybe you don't, but I do.

Thats ESPECIALLY true in Baseball.  More than football.  Francona didnt get fired because of lack of success either.  The year he got fired, they were a game out of the playoffs. 90+ wins.  He just fell victim to some headcases, a meltdown, and a world series or bust mentality.  Ill take 90+ wins any day of the week for baseball.  We have seen time and time again coaches in the nFL win with marginal talent.

 

Which coaches have consistently been able to win with marginal talent?  Also, define "win."

I don't think the Patriots have the most talented roster in the NFL.  They have a coach and a QB and the coach and the QB utilize their interchangeable pieces and parts better than any team in the league for the last decade.

^ I have a tough time assumming that a guy with at least 12 documented concussions (when concussions weren't documented well) was drunk on air.  Maybe you don't, but I do.

 

Did you listen to the link I posted?  It's one thing to sound like he usually does, which is 'punch drunk' perhaps.  It's another to be obviously tanked.  I'm sure the pills he has to take don't mix well with alchohol.  I'm no morality cop and, don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm offended.  But let's not pretend that, justified or not, the guy has or at least had a drinking problem.

Thats ESPECIALLY true in Baseball.  More than football.  Francona didnt get fired because of lack of success either.  The year he got fired, they were a game out of the playoffs. 90+ wins.  He just fell victim to some headcases, a meltdown, and a world series or bust mentality.  Ill take 90+ wins any day of the week for baseball.  We have seen time and time again coaches in the nFL win with marginal talent.

 

 

Which coaches have consistently been able to win with marginal talent?  Also, define "win."

 

I agree with baseballman about New England.  Heck, you can even say the same about PIttsburgh.  Its not as much about talent in the NFL as it MLB.  Name all the "stars" on PIttsburgh?  Guys who put up HUGE numbers.  THey are a good team, that gets the best out of their talent.  Other examples include coaches who took bad teams and made them good in one year.  Jim Harbaugh in San Fran, Tony Sporano took a 1-15 dolphins team to 11-5 and playoffs the next year, Ravens one a super bowl with..Trent Dilfer as QB? or was that Tampa?  the rams went 8-8 with a lineup that is worse than the browns.  In a better divison.  If you have a good system, good culture, and everyone buys win, you can win in the NFL.  Not like that in baseball IMO 

 

Stars on Pittsburgh?  James Harrison, Troy Palamalu, Lawrence Timmons, Brett Keisel, Casey Hampton, Lamarr Woodley, Ben Rothlesburger, Mike Wallace, Heath Miller, Maurkice Pouncey to name 'a few'.

 

Not all of those guys had their best years last year, but talent is not an issue in Pittsburgh at all.

 

New England I would be more inclined to agree that their success is not dependent on a star-studded roster.  But they do have Tom Brady, who might be the biggest star of all.  Take Brady off that team and it is not a contender.

Those arent stars, those are very good players.  You put any of those guys on other teams, they are probably average.  They are really really good because of pittsburghs style and philosophy.  Pittsburghs system is created so that any players can step in and have the same porductivity. Its an ultimate model of winning without the flash and zest of talent.  That being said, i think they are banged up and will suck next year.

I don't know how elite you need to be to qualify as a "star" under your analysis, but I have a hard time not putting ALL-PRO (not simply Pro-Bowl) players in the category of a star.  If it was so easy for Pittsburgh with their system, they would have not had any problems this year when their...... "very good players"..... got banged up.

 

Roethlisberger - Offensive ROY; Pro-bowler; two time super bowl champ QB (youngest to ever win)

 

Palomalu - Collegiate All-American; SEVEN time pro-bowler; mutiple selections to All-Pro team; AP Defensive POY

 

Harrison - AP Defensive POY; All-Pro; Pro-bowler

 

Pouncey - been the pro-bowl every year since he was drafted and is generally considered the best center in the NFL

 

Hampton - five-time pro-bowler

 

 

 

 

^well,  there "down year" is 8-8.  They could have easily won more this year.  At there peak, they beat NYG in NYC, which nobody else really could do. And even when big ben went down, they still got it done in Baltimore.  I just think its a system thing.  I understand your take, though.  I personally think the pro-bowl is a joke.  Im sorry but Joe Thomas has been every year but i find him extremely overrated.  Just my opinion. 

Im sorry but Joe Thomas has been every year but i find him extremely overrated. 

 

i know, i know, but im not the only one who says it, either.  I watch the guy closely, i just see more mistakes than there should be for a 6 time pro bowler.  ALso, i was very very upset last year against the steelers when Harrison cheapshotted Colt, and there 5 feet away is Thomas standing there and calmly walks away.  Its like come on, man.  Stick up for your player.  Get n Harrisons face, that was deer-tay.

Our Oline does need improvement. They were 9th with QB hits allowed at 81.

 

Alex Mack had 8 penalties for 60 yards including 3 false starts and 3 holding calls.

Joe Thomas had 8 penalties for 60 yards including 4 false starts and 4 holding calls.

Shawn Lauvao had 7 penalties for 45 yards including 4 false starts and 3 holding calls.

John Greco had 6 penalties for 35 yards including 5 false starts and 1 holding calls.

Mitchell Schwartz had 3 penalties 15 yards including 3 false starts.

 

Thats a total of 32 penalties for 215 yards including 19 false starts and 11 holding calls.

 

The Patriots line had 15 penalties for 103 yards including 7 false starts and 6 holding calls.

 

 

norv turner should be a big help to chud, he can focus more on what he wants to do with the d.

 

 

The hiring of Chud is a watershed moment for me! This is the first Browns coach who is younger than I am.

This is heartbreaking: http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/concussion-scarred-bernie-kosar-finds-relief-with-groundbreaking-treatment-1.364083

"Cleveland Browns' Rob Chudzinski targeting Chargers' John Pagano as his defensive coordinator, source confirms"

 

He coached the Chargers to #9 in overall defense and #6 against the run, a good hire if the contract situation can get solved...he runs a 3-4 though.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_browns_rob_chudzinsk.html#incart_river_default

Those arent stars, those are very good players.  You put any of those guys on other teams, they are probably average.  They are really really good because of pittsburghs style and philosophy.  Pittsburghs system is created so that any players can step in and have the same porductivity. Its an ultimate model of winning without the flash and zest of talent.  That being said, i think they are banged up and will suck next year.

 

We're arguing semantics here, but even a team full of "good players" (or one great one at the right position) can be enough to make a team competitive and a coach look good.  I've yet to see an example of a coach that took a mediocre team and made them into a contender.  Coaches are important, but even in football they're not as significant as you and others are implying.

 

I can't even remember now, but I think my original point had to do with the fact that I don't think it's fair or accurate for anyone to refer to Lovie Smith or Ken Whisenhunt as second-hand "trash" because of their recent failures in coaching.  I would have preferred both to the unproven Chudzinski.

just for the record, my pick cowher flip flopped back to not coaching again.

 

we dk if he ever really was or wasn't approached by the browns or anyone:

 

 

Ex-Steelers coach Cowher says coaching in NFL again not in plans

 

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Last Updated: 5:08 PM, January 12, 2013

 

 

Bill Cowher insists he’s staying in the studio and not returning to the sideline.

 

Cowher says Saturday on CBS’ “The NFL Today” that he has no plans to coach in the NFL, a few days after telling Newsday that he probably would come back at some point. The 55-year-old Cowher is an analyst for CBS who coached the Pittsburgh Steelers from 1992-2006. He won a Super Bowl after the 2005 season.

 

Cowher says he plans “on being with one team, and that is this team here at CBS. I know we are going to the Super Bowl.”

 

In a published report Tuesday, he said that returning to coaching after a long layoff is motivation for him to come back, but hadn’t been contacted by any teams looking for a new coach.

 

Supposedly there is a good chance that Derek Anderson is coming back to Cleveland.

Supposedly there is a good chance that Derek Anderson is coming back to Cleveland.

Please tell me your joking

Supposedly there is a good chance that Derek Anderson is coming back to Cleveland.

Please tell me your joking

Ha! Cant say that I am

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/football/browns/sources-browns-looking-into-bringing-back-derek-anderson

Supposedly there is a good chance that Derek Anderson is coming back to Cleveland.

Please tell me your joking

Ha! Cant say that I am

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/football/browns/sources-browns-looking-into-bringing-back-derek-anderson

“The fans are ruthless and don’t deserve a winner,” Anderson said. “I will never forget getting cheered when I was injured. I know at times I wasn’t great. I hope and pray I’m playing when my team comes to town and [we] roll them.”

 

No thank you I don't want him back...

 

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/football/browns/sources-browns-looking-into-bringing-back-derek-anderson#ixzz2HpO43hQn

I dont want him back necessarily but I have to agree with him with that point. Cheering when got injured was pathetic. I think he ended up apologizing for those statements though.

Well, that was surprising!  I'm neutral about the hire of Chud.  I like the Browns fan backstory and I will love it if he is successful with the Browns.... unlike Brady Quinn.

 

So.... will Derek Anderson be rejoining the team as a backup qb?

 

AH!!! Called it!

BTW, regarding a possible shift of Jabaal Sheard from DL to OLB......

 

Sheard is an extremely successful college defensive end that might need to transition to outside linebacker at the next level

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jabaal-sheard?id=2495228

 

A team captain, Sheard is one of the draft's better pass rushers and fits the standard -- from a physical perspective -- for a Patriots 3-4 outside linebacker. Players that fit are hard to find, so when you have a chance to select one, it warrants strong consideration.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4695131/10-possible-patriots-jabaal-sheard

 

Would the 6-foot-2, 255-pound Sheard, who didn't always line up in a three-point stance, be too big to excel at outside linebacker?

"I think either system we play there's additional needs of talent to add to the defense to get it to the quality we want," Banner said. "But neither would require a massive revamping of the talent we have."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_browns_defense_could.html

The bigger (no pun intended) question for me is whether the system allow for both Rubin and Taylor on the field together.  The pats tend to use 300+ lb DEs that look like DTs in a 4-3.  Making offenses worry about both those guys at the same time was a turning point for the D this past season.  One positive I suppose is that JMJ should fit better at ILB than he did at Sam

Stadium naming rights news story.....

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28165.msg658611.html#msg658611

 

EDIT: the link provided above is to the discussion about stadium naming rights (and other facility issues) where all posts on this subject should be discussed.

 

Let's leave this thread to discussion of team-related issues.

In addition to the Stadium naming rights, Banner and Haslam had some other insights:

 

-No cheerleaders

-Uniform change possible, but no sooner than 2014 due to NFL rules

-Not touching the helmets (yay!)

-Player personel guy most likely to have GM title

Banner also said they've hired some coaches and will announce them soon. No confirmation of whether Norv Turner is one of them....

Someone just asked on Facebook: don't you consider Chip Kelly's decision to coach the Eagles a slap in the face of the Browns and its fans?

 

My answer.....

 

The actions of a flighty, attention-monger doesn't reflect on my team and city. What does reflect on it is a guy who grew up a Browns fan and considers coaching this team a lifelong dream. Chud's family oriented nature is more indicative of what I want from a Cleveland coach at this early stage. But to stay in my heart, he must win.

^Or translated, "yes, it deeply hurt me, requiring me to lash out to prove I'm not hurt" :wink:

Did we really want another Holmgren around to collection fat paychecks, lack passion for the position and be lining up his next job from Day 1?  I'm not upset at the Browns front office for not signing Kelly.  The guy is obviously flighty and would have no problem bouncing on Cleveland mid-season like bouncing on his recruits 2 days after telling them he'd be there!

NFL coaches usually don't move on to "greener pastures" without a mutual parting of ways with the team they are already with.  I was not concerned that Kelly would dart the second something better came along.  What concerned me about Kelly was that his system is untested in the NFL and he has no experience dealing with NFL players.  He may very well be a big hit, but it was a risky play.  I see Chud as a "safer" pick, for sure, although Kelly would have been the "bigger splash."

I didn't want a college coach here. I'm much more in favor of a proven Norv Turner developing the offense vs. Kelly.

 

Anyhow, it will be interesting to keep an eye on Philly. I can already hear the pundits spinning the next Browns-Eagles hurt feelings/rivalry game.

 

I keep hearing local commentators speaking (favorably) about getting Michael Vick as Browns QB. I could be wrong, but I see that as a PR disaster in the making. Only a very small percentage of radio callers support this idea. I know I wouldn't ever root for the Browns with Vick under center.

^Or translated, "yes, it deeply hurt me, requiring me to lash out to prove I'm not hurt" :wink:

 

As the process went along, I cooled on Kelly. I didn't think he was being honest with the teams either this year or last.

 

But that pales in comparison to this deception by or on behalf of Manti Te'o. Maybe you'll still want this guy on the Browns for his talent. If he was complicit in this, I don't....

 

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1840415

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1484795-do-the-cleveland-browns-really-have-the-hottest-wags-in-the-nfl

Do the Cleveland Browns Really Have the Hottest WAGs in the NFL?

 

Let's face it. The sports situation has been bleak in Cleveland for quite awhile. The Cavaliers have been in the toilet since LeBron took his talents to South Beach. The Indians have been rebuilding for the better part of a decade. And the Browns haven't won a playoff game since 1994. 

 

Like I said—it's bleak. But that being said, I have noticed a positive development in The Cleve that may, or may not, be a sign that things are improving for the beleaguered Browns. The positive development being the uptick in the number of hot WAGs that have been linked to the players.

WAG?