I think I'm coming around on this one, but I still would have liked to see a current player included in the trade. Even some washed up has been that we didn't really want. It would have shown that they cared about this season.

^ That's the thing, they don't care about winning this season. The strategy requires that they lose the most games so they can get the first pick. I understand the strategy, but I'm sick of it. Even with a new QB, we're still 2-3 years from being a continual winning team, and that's presuming that the next draft works out (we just jettisoned the players we got from the last 'stacked' draft we had).

 

When does it end? It's so frustrating. I think, given the situation, I'm going to take this season off, and see how I feel next fall. I can't do this anymore.

The strategy requires that they lose the most games so they can get the first pick.

 

They'd have to hold the NFL equivalent of a fire sale to get down to Jacksonville's level.

if they bench weeden and trade little, i'd say they have a pretty good shot.

I'll be at Buckeye local at 1:00 on Sunday for a 9-YO travel soccer game.....I win.

 

Another good thing is my neighbor has already conceded on our bet that the Browns will finish in the top/bottom half of the AFC North. Dewey's pizza for the whole fam, including bar tab.

 

I wish Trent the best. 

if they bench weeden and trade little, i'd say they have a pretty good shot.

 

No keep throwing the ball to Little....

The strategy requires that they lose the most games so they can get the first pick.

 

They'd have to hold the NFL equivalent of a fire sale to get down to Jacksonville's level.

They haven't won a game yet.

They can't get any separation between receivers and defenders, the receivers seem to have trouble catching the ball when it does get to them and they've got mediocre QBs, so the pass isn't going to be effective this year. The line can't open a hole to run through so regardless of who is carrying the run isn't going to be effective this year. Though he did well last week, they've got a mediocre kicker, so we'd have to get close to make a field goal. The defense has looked pretty good so far but the Ravens weren't even healthy. IMO we're not far above Jacksonville's level.

^Interesting question, will the fans have to riot on the Jax game Dec 1st to make sure that the Browns forfeit and lose the game?

 

I am all in. 0-16 here we come...

^ That's the thing, they don't care about winning this season. The strategy requires that they lose the most games so they can get the first pick. I understand the strategy, but I'm sick of it. Even with a new QB, we're still 2-3 years from being a continual winning team, and that's presuming that the next draft works out (we just jettisoned the players we got from the last 'stacked' draft we had).

 

 

This is untrue.  With the right QB, multiple teams have shown the ability to win in year 1.  THey will get 7 picks in the first four rounds next year.  You can essentially rebuild the entire offense around the talent we do have Mack, Thomas, Gordon, Benjamin.

^ That's the thing, they don't care about winning this season. The strategy requires that they lose the most games so they can get the first pick. I understand the strategy, but I'm sick of it. Even with a new QB, we're still 2-3 years from being a continual winning team, and that's presuming that the next draft works out (we just jettisoned the players we got from the last 'stacked' draft we had).

 

 

This is untrue.  With the right QB, multiple teams have shown the ability to win in year 1.  THey will get 7 picks in the first four rounds next year.  You can essentially rebuild the entire offense around the talent we do have Mack, Thomas, Gordon, Benjamin.

^Did you include Benjamin???I'd include Cameron before Benjamin. He's a Heath Miller type TE.

2 firsts, 1 second, 2 thirds, and two fourths, right?

 

I'll be at Buckeye local at 1:00 on Sunday for a 9-YO travel soccer game.....I win.

 

I'll will be all the way out at Bay Village for a U8 game starting at 1pm, so a win for me as well.... at least a more exciting game to take in.  When I first saw the travel schedule, I freaked out and cursed the league for prioritizing church folk over football fans..... but now all those 1pm Sunday start times don't seem so bad.  Nor do the tourneys in Madison and Lodi (if you're heading to either of those we can not watch the Browns game together ;))

Those kicks were made, but all of them could give someone a heart attack! Ive never been so nervous to watch someone kick an extra point!

Browns should have asked for Donald Brown back along with the first pick.

I'm not so sure that Brown is any better than Obi.  And they probably preferred McGahee at a vet minimum.

 

One aspect of this trade that I haven't heard discussed much, but I think was a motivating factor for Banner, is that it creates more salary cap space heading into next off-season.  Trent got a large chunk of his first contract as a signing bonus, but his base salary (which affects the cap) was set to increase each year of the four year deal.

I'm not so sure that Brown is any better than Obi.  And they probably preferred McGahee at a vet minimum.

 

One aspect of this trade that I haven't heard discussed much, but I think was a motivating factor for Banner, is that it creates more salary cap space heading into next off-season.  Trent got a large chunk of his first contract as a signing bonus, but his base salary (which affects the cap) was set to increase each year of the four year deal.

They've already got plenty of room under the cap though.

Kiper was just on the Really Big Show.  He labeled the trade a win-win for both teams.  One point he made in favor of the Browns is that, in the 35 years he has been covering the draft, he would not have once taken a RB in the 1st round.

 

So Kiper wouldn't have selected LaDainian Tomlinson?

^^ ^^^Also, who would sign with a crappy team who is willing to relocate you as soon as things aren't going well and don't even call you to let you know.

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade.  I never thought that he should have been the Browns first pick in the draft, and they certainly shouldn't have traded up to select him, but he was a solid player that could be great if plugged into the right system.  The only Browns games I watched last year were against the Bengals, but he gave us fits and was definitely a player that commanded respect and attention from the defense.

 

The thing that strikes me about the Browns lately is the lack of continuity in the organization. The coaches, ownership, players, etc. all seem to turn over almost every year.  With a better QB, a reliable #1 receiver, and Richardson, you have the ingredients for a pretty high powered offense. Now you have to rely on the draft to find all the pieces, and your draft record hasn't exactly been stellar.  I honestly thought the Browns had a chance to be a pretty middle of the road team this year, and with a good draft next year, you all could have been competitive in the division.  If I was a fan, the abandonment of this season would really piss me off.

If I was a fan, the abandonment of this season would really piss me off.

 

There's an understatement. :| The team was obviously tanking from the get-go. Giving T-Rich so much time off during training camp, then just 15 and 18 carries in the first two games, despite being relatively effective behind a shitty offensive line.

He wasn't relatively effective. He was highly ineffective. He looked worse, somehow - he ran straight into defensive lineman, hesitated and didn't pursue gaps, and gave up on plays early. It was like he made the wrong choice in basically every situation, he only got away with it a few times because he is tremendously strong. 3.5 per carry is weak stuff for a guy with those tools. Can't blame it all on Cousins/Greco.

I bet that Ogbonnaya with have a higher yards per carry than Richardson has had in either of the first two games. I also think Hoyer will throw for more touchdowns than Weeden has all season(2 games, 1 TD).

 

Im actually more excited to watch the game this Sunday. Our games have been terribly boring, the team looked pathetic, and it wasnt fun to watch. It is almost impossible for things to be any worse than what Weeden and Richardson were doing.

i'm sure the reason mcgahee wasn't in the league because he is better than Richardson.

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade. 

 

If the Bengals could've traded Kijana Carter in his second season for a future first, how would've that looked in hindsight?

He wasn't relatively effective. He was highly ineffective. He looked worse, somehow - he ran straight into defensive lineman, hesitated and didn't pursue gaps, and gave up on plays early. It was like he made the wrong choice in basically every situation, he only got away with it a few times because he is tremendously strong. 3.5 per carry is weak stuff for a guy with those tools. Can't blame it all on Cousins/Greco.

 

The hell I can't. Cousins has no business being a starting lineman. Schwartz sucks too, but he's at least a decent pass blocker. Getting contact behind the line of scrimmage isn't on the runner most of the time. T-Rich's yards after first contact is near tops in the league. The dude is strong and made decent gains despite the turnstile in front of him.

 

He may not become an elite running back but he had a nose for the endzone. That makes him worth more than just yards per carry.

there is alot of emotion from the people who are tired of losing, understandable.  Fact is, its the right move.  These guys are hired to do a job by a guy who spent a billion dollars on a franchise. T hey arent going to keep players just to make the fans happy.  Especially if the player is not changing games with his play

^^ I've read he averaged only 1.6 yards after contact. That can't possibly be near the top if true.

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade. 

 

If the Bengals could've traded Kijana Carter in his second season for a future first, how would've that looked in hindsight?

 

Obviously Richardson isn't a bust of a player or Indy wouldn't have given up a first round pick for him. If there's little to no deep passing threat, a crappy O line, and an immobile QB, can Richardson really be blamed? I'm shocked at how quickly people have changed their tune on Richardson. 

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade. 

 

If the Bengals could've traded Kijana Carter in his second season for a future first, how would've that looked in hindsight?

 

Obviously Richardson isn't a bust of a player or Indy wouldn't have given up a first round pick for him. If there's little to no deep passing threat, a crappy O line, and an immobile QB, can Richardson really be blamed? I'm shocked at how quickly people have changed their tune on Richardson. 

Obviously Carson Palmer isn't a bad QB or the Raiders wouldn't have given up two 1st round picks for him.  Right??

Obviously Richardson isn't a bust of a player or Indy wouldn't have given up a first round pick for him. If there's little to no deep passing threat, a crappy O line, and an immobile QB, can Richardson really be blamed? I'm shocked at how quickly people have changed their tune on Richardson. 

Not to mention most of last year if Richardson was on the field, 80% of the time he got the ball. If they had a play where he didn't get the ball, they pulled him out. It got kindof predictable. If they'd left him in during a few more passes and run the ball a few more times with Hardesty it would have helped both the passing and the run game.

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade. 

 

If the Bengals could've traded Kijana Carter in his second season for a future first, how would've that looked in hindsight?

 

Obviously Richardson isn't a bust of a player or Indy wouldn't have given up a first round pick for him. If there's little to no deep passing threat, a crappy O line, and an immobile QB, can Richardson really be blamed? I'm shocked at how quickly people have changed their tune on Richardson. 

Obviously Carson Palmer isn't a bad QB or the Raiders wouldn't have given up two 1st round picks for him.  Right??

 

That was lunacy on the part of the Raiders. But Carson was not playing for the Bengals, made it clear he wouldn't play for us, and the Bengals responded accordingly by drafting a new QB. Getting rid of Palmer literally cost the Bengals nothing. The Richardson trade could end up being a positive thing for the Browns, but we'll have to wait and see. Richardson could go on to be a perennial pro-bowler. Palmer could have too, and I think there would have been backlash about getting rid of him with an unproven rookie as a back up, but that was not the scenario we were in. I guess we'll just see how this plays out.

^^ I've read he averaged only 1.6 yards after contact. That can't possibly be near the top if true.

 

You are right. I stand corrected. His numbers are 21/50 RBs in the last year.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/73115/colts-fill-specific-needs-with-richardson

 

I still think the guy had potential.

Irsay and the Colts have made plenty of poor decisions, one reason why they finished 2-14 a few years back, and even with Peyton Manning, had a losing post-season record during his career.

 

A 1st round pick for a RB with an injury history that averaged 3.5 yards/carry in 18 games is a brilliant move.  Hopefully Weeden is next on the chopping block, crossing my fingers to fleece someone for a 4th rounder.

I'm entirely confused by this whole Richardson trade. 

 

If the Bengals could've traded Kijana Carter in his second season for a future first, how would've that looked in hindsight?

 

Obviously Richardson isn't a bust of a player or Indy wouldn't have given up a first round pick for him. If there's little to no deep passing threat, a crappy O line, and an immobile QB, can Richardson really be blamed? I'm shocked at how quickly people have changed their tune on Richardson. 

 

I don't think anything is obvious about Trent at this point.  I do think that Indy was desperate, though.  Their fans will be disappointed with anything short of the playoffs and losing Ballard was a big downer for them.  They don't make this trade if Ballard doesn't get hurt.

 

The Browns, albeit not the current regime (and that played a HUGE factor) drafted Richardson at #3 because they viewed him as a potential HOF player.  Barry Sanders thrived without a passing game and ran behind a crappy O-line.  The Vikings currently have one of the worst passing games in the league and Peterson still is near the top of the league in rushing every year he is healthy.  Great running backs find a way to get the yards Trent wasn't.  That said, having a great running back doesn't get you very far (see Sanders and Peterson, who I consider the best two I have seen).

 

A change of scenery might help, as it did with other highly drafted running backs such as Marshall Faulk (who initially failed to live up to his potential with Indy) and Cedric Benson (who did much better with Cincy than he did with Chicago).

 

As for a change of tune on Richardson, it was coming on fast.  Check out my post after last week's game.  I was mildly disappointed, as I think most fans were, with his performance last year.  But we largely wrote that off to injuries.  Then he was injured for the entire preseason this year and, when he did come back for the games, he didn't do anything to light the world on fire.  The line's run blocking wasn't great, but it was nowhere near horrendous (like their pass protection has been).  The run blocking was quite good last year and he still only had two runs over 20 yards.  This year, Trent was missing wide open cut-back lanes and showing no burst through the line to even get to the second level.

 

Part of me thinks that Banner is a sneaky sh!t who approached an injured (more than we thought) Trent during the preseason and told him if he could just play in the first couple games, he would get him out of here and into a run-first system like Indy's.

^Hmmm and Hmmm.  A lot of interesting points.

 

As for a change of tune on Richardson, it was coming on fast.  Check out my post after last week's game.  I was mildly disappointed, as I think most fans were, with his performance last year.  But we largely wrote that off to injuries.  Then he was injured for the entire preseason this year and, when he did come back for the games, he didn't do anything to light the world on fire.  The line's run blocking wasn't great, but it was nowhere near horrendous (like their pass protection has been).  The run blocking was quite good last year and he still only had two runs over 20 yards.  This year, Trent was missing wide open cut-back lanes and showing no burst through the line to even get to the second level.

 

 

Agreed, I have a similar story, although I never was that excited about Richardson, but I did hope he would be good.

 

Prior to last weeks game I was hoping Weeden would get a mild injury and that somehow Hoyer would get a shot over Campbell. I didnt think it would actually happen.

 

I was on my way to work when I found out Weeden would be missing the game and Hoyer was getting the start. I thought it was hilarious based on that is exactly what I hoped would happen a week before. I called my dad to tell him the news and then I mentioned to him that Richardson has also been a disappointment and Jim Brown was right with his original comments. Later I get home from work and find out he got traded!

 

Hopefully my luck continues and Little is next to be traded!

Amongst all this I read an interesting stat last night:  The last time the Browns WON a playoff game was with Belicheck and Saban.  Time flies when you're having fun (or not). 

Amongst all this I read an interesting stat last night:  The last time the Browns WON a playoff game was with Belicheck and Saban.  Time flies when you're having fun (or not). 

 

Well you have to get into the playoffs to win a playoff game.....

 

Last time the Browns were in a playoff game Tim Couch was still on the team....

Well since we're throwing out odd & interesting stats we read today, the last coach we had that won more games than they lost was Schottenheimer.

McGahee is signed.  1 year deal.

 

I looked up his stats and he was actually doing quite well in Denver last season before he got hurt.  A little long in the tooth, but maybe he can provide some vocal veteran leadership to an offense sorely lacking anything resembling it (no offense to Joe Thomas, but he is more of a lead by example kind of guy and his 'lead' this year has been well below his previous All Pro level)

McGahee is signed.  1 year deal.

 

I looked up his stats and he was actually doing quite well in Denver last season before he got hurt.  A little long in the tooth, but maybe he can provide some vocal veteran leadership to an offense sorely lacking anything resembling it (no offense to Joe Thomas, but he is more of a lead by example kind of guy and his 'lead' this year has been well below his previous All Pro level)

 

Great I have to relive my flashbacks of his knee in that OSU Miami game....  :-o

If anyone was interested in ordering a McGahee jersey, looks his number is going to be 26.  :-D

I was planning on just taking my Trevin Wade jersey and using some duct tape and a sharpy to change the name on the back    :-P

I was planning on just taking my Trevin Wade jersey and using some duct tape and a sharpy to change the name on the back    :-P

 

That's how my Mo Williams jersey became a Kyrie Irving jersey.

would someone care to look over the schedule and try to pick a possible win or two? make me feel better - thx

 

all i can imagine is the next ravens game could go the browns way, otherwise the rest of the schedule looks o-fer.  :-o

There are plenty of possible wins.  We certainly could win tomorrow.  Minnesota is anything but dominant.  We'll actually probably be the favorite when Jax comes to town.  They are on another level of bad.  We play the Steelers twice and they've looked worse than us.  The Lion and Bills both play here.  The Bills have a rookie QB and the Lions don't play well on the road.  We play the Bengals twice and usually play them tight.  The Chiefs are hot right now, but aren't that much different than the 2-14 team from last season.  The Bears play at CBS too and Cutler is prone to more than a few meltdowns each season.

 

As for the rest of the games, "any given Sunday" applies. 

well i dont think its that level of wine and roses lol, but now that you mention it jax could be a win.

I was planning on just taking my Trevin Wade jersey and using some duct tape and a sharpy to change the name on the back    :-P

 

That's how my Mo Williams jersey became a Kyrie Irving jersey.

That's how my Jeff Garcia jersey became a Scott Player jersey.

I want to see how McGahee runs before I form any opinions on this team. I also want to see why Lombardi likes Hoyer so much. Hopefully not for the same reasons he liked JaMarcus Russell!

 

BTW: if we have no running game this year, then it won't matter who is QB for this team. They are going to get killed.

would someone care to look over the schedule and try to pick a possible win or two? make me feel better - thx

 

all i can imagine is the next ravens game could go the browns way, otherwise the rest of the schedule looks o-fer.  :-o

The Browns defense should keep them in most games, maybe even win them a couple by creating turnovers, defensive scores, etc..  Also, the Browns have lost at the defending SB champ, and a Dolphins team that also beat the Colts in Indy.

 

I'll say we win 6 games this year, starting with tomorrow because Ponder stinks and Browns run D looks to be vastly improved.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_browns_ex-lb_scott_f.html