Dion Lewis would look real good on this Offense right now, no big play threat out of the backfield.  Looks like they're slowly working Marqueis Gray onto the field, wouldn't be surprised to see him lining up in some 2-TE sets with Cameron within the next few weeks.

 

 

Absolutely right about Dion Lewis. And this offense would look a lot different with him on it. MarQueis Gray is an intriguing player who was a quarterback who became a wide receiver in college to a tight end in the NFL. So I can see why the coaches have him in there in wildcat formations. The 49ers tried to move him to their practice squad which requires the player be waived first. But the Browns grabbed him. The 49ers and the Browns see something in this kid. We need to find some kind of backup for Jordan Cameron. I still don't understand why we let Benjamin Watson go.

 

EDIT: the locals showing their hometown boy some love....

 

I would imagine the decision to not offer Watson a contract was a combination of things; $$'s, his declining production as a receiver, poor blocker, and probably most of all was they didn't want to stunt the growth of Cameron (and other young TE's on the roster).  With all that said, I'd like to have Watson on the team, good hands, seemed like a solid vet, good teammate, etc..

 

I do feel better about guys like Cameron & Gray though given Chud's history with developing and working with TE's.

We don't care about Cameron because he's a TE. We care about him because he's catching the ball. It's better to invest in someone who can try and catch the ball while Cameron is on the field. It will always be a better value to improve what I will call the #3 receiving threat (behind Gordon/Cameron) regardless of what position that person is actually playing, so long as they can be on the field while other playmakers are out there with them. If Cameron is hurt I'd rather the #3 receiving threat be asked to step up than have someone waiting in the wings down the depth chart. A good QB will work with whatever tools we give him, but what use is a tool that we don't regularly give him the chance to use like this theoretical solid second rec.TE. It's just not that important.

^^I actually think Cameron's explosion has been a surprise to the team.  People quickly forget that we targeted several TE's this offseason.  We went after Jared Cook.  We went after Brent Myers.  I'm sure there were other conversations which weren't even reported.  I think they always had targeted Barnindge for that #2/blocking TE spot, and were seeking a #1 with a plan to keep developing Cameron (if he survived camp) as the #3 / back-up pass catching TE

^^I actually think Cameron's explosion has been a surprise to the team.  People quickly forget that we targeted several TE's this offseason.  We went after Jared Cook.  We went after Brent Myers.  I'm sure there were other conversations which weren't even reported.  I think they always had targeted Barnindge for that #2/blocking TE spot, and were seeking a #1 with a plan to keep developing Cameron (if he survived camp) as the #3 / back-up pass catching TE

 

Cameron's success so far this season is definitely a suprise. Last year he had trouble blocking, and was not much of a receiving threat. He dropped several passes and had trouble getting open. Initially I was mad about letting Watson go. But out of nowhere Cameron seems to be getting open every play and catching every ball thrown his way. Definitely a nice surprise. 

I also think that locker room politics played into Watson's departure.  He would not have easily accepted a back-up role to whomever here like he did to Jimmy Graham in New Orleans.  Watson was one of the locker room leaders and it could have caused a disruption.

So something's gotta give tonight.....

 

Buffalo Bills rushing offense = ranked 2nd in NFL (http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=BUF)

Cleveland Browns defense against rush = ranked 4th in NFL (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/cleveland_browns_defense_working_towards_elite_status/14682764)

So something's gotta give tonight.....

 

Buffalo Bills rushing offense = ranked 2nd in NFL (http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=BUF)

Cleveland Browns defense against rush = ranked 4th in NFL (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/cleveland_browns_defense_working_towards_elite_status/14682764)

 

I'm hoping its the Bills rushing!

Browns -4 is a gift.  They roll the bills tonight.

Dumb run by Hoyer, cheap shot by the LB.

Not liking the all brown look.... Or hoyer limping off the field.  I swear, I was just starting to warm up to him... That's why he got hurt

Obviously Weeden hasn't been studying tape on Hoyer. If you hold onto the ball for 5 secs you are getting sacked.

Travis Benjamin knows that when the street lights are on it's time to GO TO THE HOUSE!!

Hoyer injury could be bad, could be ACL. Wtf. Also love the brown uni's.

Josh Freeman? 

I like the uniforms too.

 

37 points and our quarterback should be playing minor league baseball.

 

I'll take it--but wish we could find those few more pieces!

After sleeping on it, Weedens performance is acceptable for a few games with this defense. He threw no picks and had a few nice long balls. He has no touch on the short passes. Oddly enough Gordon screwed up the screen, which was the best screen by weeden...ever...

 

Of course the defense needs to play clean and mean. The defensive pass interference calls set up 2 of their TD and what appears to be a rookie mistake by Mingo set up spill mans TD run.

 

Exciting times to be in every game. 2 victory kneels in a row. God speed Brian Hoyer, get well soon.

 

 

Uniforms are horrible.  Ironically, the Bills got rid of their ugly ones and went back to the old style.

 

Defense looked good.  Weeden got the job done, but we saw why Hoyer started.

 

I like that tie....

92.3 The Fan just reported that Hoyer tore his ACL. He's done for the year. I'm so freakin' pissed. I think this is a playoff team with him. I don't think it's a playoff team without him. I really began to enjoy watching the Browns again. This team is going to draft a QB in the first round next year, and there's a real possibility Hoyer may not be ready by training camp next year. I feel very sad for Hoyer.

 

We're aware that Hoyer is a difference-making QB and has engineered late drives to seal two games. But note that Weeden engineered a comeback drive in last night's game. He can do some things in a game. Yet I recognize that he's a second-string quarterback and just a placeholder until the 2014 draft. He plays like a victim.

 

I realize that the Browns had just tied the game 10-10, but I think Benjamin's punt return for a TD is why the Browns won this game. It sent a jolt through the team and the crowd that got a gut-punch with Hoyer's injury.

 

Buffalo looks like an up-and-coming team. I really like what I'm seeing from them.

Josh Freeman?  I wouldnt put it past Lombardi.  He hates WEeden

92.3 The Fan just reported that Hoyer tore his ACL. He's done for the year. I'm so freakin' pissed. I think this is a playoff team with him. I don't think it's a playoff team without him.

 

Terrible! It literally ruined the excitement for me this season.

Josh Freeman?  I wouldnt put it past Lombardi.  He hates WEeden

 

I think this city hates Weeden as a football player. He represents everything the Browns have represented since their return -- poor performance and no spark. Hoyer signaled the start of an enjoyable, exciting new era. So gaining Weeden here means losing Hoyer, the hometown hero. It's only natural the city would hate Weeden for everything he's not.

Weeden started getting into a better rythym as the game went along.  He didn't get 1 single rep in practice this week, so he needs to nail down some timing issues with the WRs.  But there is nothing you can do about that guy's feet.  Horrible. 

 

Losing Hoyer is sad, but let's face it... he was not the long term answer.  He would make an excellent #2.  He just doesn't have the arm strength IMO to be an NFL starter.  A few of the passes he threw last night before getting injured were flat out ugly and, I think for good reason, we have not seen him throw a deep ball.  Plus, as we saw last night, he is so small in stature that you have to constantly worry about durability with him taking NFL hits.  But what he lacks in physical attributes, he comes close to making up for in intangibles.... at least from the small sample we saw.  If we could take his feet and pocket presences and somehow transplant them to Weeden, he'd have something to work with. 

Hmmm, you maybe onto something there HTS? Hoyer's brain into Weeden's body...

 

 

If Hoyer has a torn ligament and done for the year, it's another nightmare come true in Cleveland sports.

Why is evryone acting like we just lost Tom Brady??

Why is evryone acting like we just lost Tom Brady??

 

I agree.  Hoyer was as far from a foregone conclusion as one could get.  He could equally be Tim Couch. 

 

Did I mention I liked the uniforms?

If Hoyer has a torn ligament and done for the year, it's another nightmare come true in Cleveland sports.

:roll: Nightmare come true? Most of Cleveland had tepid hopes for this season already. We all know this is a rebuilding year but had a little hope that maybe we could pull off a decent season while figuring out who's worth keeping. We still have a little hope, though admittedly a bit less, of an entertaining season. So while I'm no fan of Weeden, we haven't gone downhill that much. Hoyer was better than Weeden, but it's not like we lost Peyton Manning and replaced him with some schmuck that couldn't make a PeeWee team.

 

Edit: I liked the uniforms too.

Hmmm, you maybe onto something there HTS? Hoyer's brain into Weeden's body...

 

Hoyer's brain, feet, pocket presence, touch, and accuracy combined with Weeden's arm strength would make a very good quarterback.  Given that we can't do that, I'd take Hoyer and his lack of arm strength any day over Weeden and his lack of many things a good quarterback needs to have.

 

I laughed watching that last night.  You guys deserve some joy.

Hoyer is out for the season - confirmed torn ACL

 

EDIT: Sorry KJP - just saw your post upthread

Cleveland: A great place to live ... unless you're a sports fan

http://www.nbcsports.com/joe-posnanski/cleveland-great-place-live-unless-youre-sports-fan

It wasn't Tom Brady, it was the QB on the team that was competent enough to score some points, get rid of the ball quickly behind an OK line and manage to win some games on the back of the defense. 

 

 

 

Hoyer is out for the season - confirmed torn ACL

 

EDIT: Sorry KJP - just saw your post upthread

 

Cursed.

It wasn't Tom Brady, it was the QB on the team that was competent enough to score some points, get rid of the ball quickly behind an OK line and manage to win some games on the back of the defense. 

 

We won't argue about Weeden's issue with holding the ball too long.... but, correct me if I'm wrong, Hoyer got hurt when we were down last night 7-0 and we 'managed' to win the game, no?

It wasn't Tom Brady, it was the QB on the team that was competent enough to score some points, get rid of the ball quickly behind an OK line and manage to win some games on the back of the defense. 

 

We won't argue about Weeden's issue with holding the ball too long.... but, correct me if I'm wrong, Hoyer got hurt when we were down last night 7-0 and we 'managed' to win the game, no?

 

Confirmed.  Hoyer had zero impact, other than to maybe motivate our special teams and defense knowing that Weeden was the guy!

^I'm not suggesting anything of the sort.  Hoyer played decently well in his small sample size and, if healthy and if he played decently last night and if he wasn't cursed by drop balls (like on the first drive) as Weeden was the first two games, there would be no debate.  He would be the starter.  I was simply countering the suggestion that Weeden can't manage a game to the point where we can "win some games on the back of the defense."  He can and we will win some games, maybe many games.

 

Did we win last night?  Are we not in first place?  Hard to tell around this town....

 

The bottom line is that no matter whether Hoyer stayed healthy or not, we still need a franchise QB and that should still be our #1 target going into the offseason.  This diety status which has been handed to Hoyer makes me concerned that we could have a Derek Anderson 2.0 reboot.

if weeden got hurt in the first quarter and hoyer came out and won the game 37-24 with a 95 qb rating, you guys would have been all on him. 

 

Do you guys honestly believe that the browns will lose more games with weeden than with hoyer?  I don't.

 

The worst part about being a cleveland Browns fan is that i have to hear all these people throwing the qb under the bus for no apparent reason.  yeah, lets boo weeden as he takes the field; that's how the "best fans in the NFL" should react.

i think the browns will get mauled by Detroit.  I honestly do believe the browns would win more games with Hoyer.  THe defense will keep us in enough games that we can get lucky and win some.  The offense with Weeden probably wont win us many games.  Now, to his credit, he made the throws last night to get it done.  But we all know he is not consistent in doing that

do we know that hoyer is?

do we know that hoyer is?

 

Yes we do.

 

And we certainly know what Weeden is.

 

I was there last night.  I paid my money, I booed Weeden.  He sucks and watching him pout on the sidelines while he got outplayed was pathetic.

 

But who cares what I think, pretty solid rumors out there that he is not well liked in the locker room.  No sense arguing, the guy will be not be on the roster next season.

 

 

What do you hope to achieve by booing?

 

beating a 1-3 team is hardly a strong pillar in which to prove a consistency argument. and youre crazy if you think that Hoyer will be starting next year

What I'm saddest about is that we will never know if Hoyer is "The Guy." His sample of work this year (2 games) wasn't enough to determine whether he was The Guy. Nor was it enough to steer the front office away from having to draft a quarterback in the top few picks overall. And when you draft a top-tier quarterback in this day and age, he is probably going to start right away.

 

So a boyhood dream of leading his hometown football team for a whole season, possibly to a winning record and maybe even the playoffs is likely over, unless he dramatically outplays the drafted QB in preseason next year or the drafted QB gets hurt.

 

Once upon a time, I was in awe of what Weeden brought to the combines. His physical tools are exceptional. But he's an indecisive crybaby.

 

Hoyer lacks Weeden's physical capabilities (minus the mobility, which carries risks!), but his need to rely on non-physical features such as putting a touch on the pass, his reading of defenses and anticipation of routes/reads by his receivers, his command of the offense and his fire are things that are difficult to measure except in the heat of a game. In short, he's got the "it" -- those intangibles that help a quarterback win. Kosar had it (yet physically, Kosar was like a giraffe on Quaaludes). Sipe had it (yet he wasn't mobile either, although he had a strong arm). When those guys walked on the field, you felt good about your team's chances. You trusted them to make something good happen when you needed it the most.

 

I felt that when Hoyer led the Browns to the game-clinching 95-yard TD drive in the fourth quarter against the Bengals. When he threw that touchdown, I felt something that I hadn't felt in 20+ years: pride in the Browns in doing what needed to be done at crunch time.

 

And it's very difficult if not impossible to know if, on draft day, whether your QB pick has those things to succeed. You discover that when they start engineering impressive drives at the NFL level.

I think you see 'it' when you are looking for it.  If you decide that somebody is a crybaby (which i must have totally missed this subplot because I haven't read any quotes from him to show this) then you will never see 'it' because you don't want to. 

 

Weeden had a two play, 70 yard, drive at a critical point of the game.  If Hoyer had that drive, I believe, you would have chalked the timing and success to 'it'. Weeden did it, however, so you don't.

 

I'm not even that high on weeden, i just don't think Hoyer is or could have been the guy.  I don't think there is any real difference between the two. one just gets rid of the ball quicker and makes you believe, for some reason, that he is really good. 

 

The offensive success of the browns would rely upon field position and receiver play, no matter which quarterback plays.

I think you see 'it' when you are looking for it.  If you decide that somebody is a crybaby (which i must have totally missed this subplot because I haven't read any quotes from him to show this) then you will never see 'it' because you don't want to. 

 

Weeden had a two play, 70 yard, drive at a critical point of the game.  If Hoyer had that drive, I believe, you would have chalked the timing and success to 'it'. Weeden did it, however, so you don't.

 

I'm not even that high on weeden, i just don't think Hoyer is or could have been the guy.  I don't think there is any real difference between the two. one just gets rid of the ball quicker and makes you believe, for some reason, that he is really good. 

 

The offensive success of the browns would rely upon field position and receiver play, no matter which quarterback plays.

 

Your football IQ must be extremely high to make that judgement about Hoyer in just 2 games.  I think being the first Browns's QB since 1994 to win his first two (would've been three) games, says something about him.  And you're dead wrong about there not being a difference between the two. 

Here's the difference between Hoyer & Weeden.  Hoyer may or may not have played himself into being "the" guy for at least the next 4-5 years, it was something that needed to play out to determine.  Weeden on the other hand, is a confirmed bottom feeder QB in the NFL, right there with Gabbert.

 

We had a chance to get at least average QB play with Hoyer and we're doomed with Weeds.  There's no reason to argue at this point, because if people can't recognize how bad he is now, they never will until they see the train wreck's that will undoubtedly happen later this season.  Throwing the ball out of bounds on 4th down, throwing behind & high to Receiver's causing injuries, staring down WR's, club-footing his way into 5-step drops, holding the ball for 8 seconds and taking sacks, then come out in post-game presser and say "we" have to play better with his copy & paste responses to media questions.

 

The Browns will no doubt draft a QB next year, but you can also bet Hoyer will be on the roster, while Weeden will look to pick up another sport.

Read this. Worth sharing to your family/friends in other cities too....

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/76925/a-field-trip-to-believeland

 

EDIT: sorry, I didn't see that Believeland had already posted this in the Indians thread. If you want to comment on it, go to the Indians thread. Thx

I think you see 'it' when you are looking for it.  If you decide that somebody is a crybaby (which i must have totally missed this subplot because I haven't read any quotes from him to show this) then you will never see 'it' because you don't want to. 

 

Weeden had a two play, 70 yard, drive at a critical point of the game.  If Hoyer had that drive, I believe, you would have chalked the timing and success to 'it'. Weeden did it, however, so you don't.

 

I'm not even that high on weeden, i just don't think Hoyer is or could have been the guy.  I don't think there is any real difference between the two. one just gets rid of the ball quicker and makes you believe, for some reason, that he is really good. 

 

The offensive success of the browns would rely upon field position and receiver play, no matter which quarterback plays.

 

Your football IQ must be extremely high to make that judgement about Hoyer in just 2 games.  I think being the first Browns's QB since 1994 to win his first two (would've been three) games, says something about him.  And you're dead wrong about there not being a difference between the two. 

four teams in five years and being unable to win the starting job in Arizona last year says something about him too

Read this. Worth sharing to your family/friends in other cities too....

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/76925/a-field-trip-to-believeland

 

EDIT: sorry, I didn't see that Believeland had already posted this in the Indians thread. If you want to comment on it, go to the Indians thread. Thx

 

Thanks for that.  Not bad at all.